Marry a Pakistani Man?

Marry a Pakistani Man

Marry a Pakistani Man? – beware. This is a sizzling hot topic. Many Pakistani men come to the US or the UK in search of a better life. To get the better life, some seek out women in the US or the UK for marriage. I will use the word “foreign” when I speak of the women or wives from the US. and the UK.

Women want to marry a Pakistani man, as he seems kind, sweet, charming, and debonair. She sees him as the man of her dreams. He treats her as a princess. Many of the women don’t know the Pakistani man uses those qualities to trap the foreign women. Many of the men are deceitful. A Foreign woman who marries a Pakistani man could find herself spun in a web of deception.

Women from the US or the UK marry a Pakistani man without realizing the truth

Over the years, while being here at polygamy 411, I’ve learned a lot about this topic from the commentators who are foreign women. They had married Pakistani men. Many of the Pakistani men marry foreign women, but do not tell them that they already have wives. Some have children too that are in Pakistan. More often than not, the Pakistani man married his first cousin in Pakistan. They had an “arranged marriage.” When the already married Pakistani men marry the foreign women, it makes him polygamous.

Often these Pakistani men never take the foreign wives to Pakistan to meet their families, relatives, or friends. Many times, the people in Pakistan that I just mentioned never know of the wife who is in the US or the UK. The foreign wife becomes a “secret wife.”

The foreign women who marry a Pakistani man may one day get a surprise of their lives

The husband may one day say he must go back to Pakistan. He then comes back married to someone else. He more than likely married his first cousin. He says his mother made him do it. He gives the foreign wife excuses as to why he could not defy his mother. Although the reason is cultural, he’ll say it’s Islam. He’s got it twisted. It has nothing to do with Islam.

When the foreign wife learns of the marriage to the other woman, she becomes distraught. It doesn’t matter if it was an arranged marriage or otherwise. She doesn’t know what to do. She has already become emotionally invested. She has made a life with this man. She has a huge problem. It is extremely difficult and painful for her to resolve it.

Why do these Pakistani men do this to foreign women? Many do it to get citizenship/naturalization/immigration status in the US or  the UK. They do it to foreign women from other countries, as well. They want a better life for themselves and their families back home in Pakistan.

Some fall in love with the foreign women whom they married. Others do not. They just get the immigration status that they sought and then divorce the foreign women.

Foreign women who marry a Pakistani man should beware of the lies, deceit and betrayal that may await them

A foreign woman should thoroughly investigate the Pakistani man whom she intends to marry. She should make sure she meets his family, relatives, and friends in Pakistan. She should ask him if he is already married or if his family has arranged a marriage for him to take place in the future.

She should make safe her assets. She, for instance, should keep her funds separate from his, or have a prenuptial agreement. Most importantly, she should act, using intellect and not emotions. These men are suave and very convincing.

I, in no way, assert that every Pakistani man is as I described above. I just want you to know that I have learned there are very many Pakistani men who have done all that I have stated above. We all know nothing is absolute except our Creator. I simply urge all women that if they marry a Pakistani man, beware!

The problem is so serious that the Muslim Minister Baroness Warsi spoke on it. Click link below to read the article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9275179/Some-Pakistani-men-see-white-women-as-fair-game-says-Baroness-Warsi.html

To learn more about the Baroness Warsi visit: http://www.sayeedawarsi.com/about/

marry a pakistani man

marry a Pakistani man

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919 Comments

  • anabellah

    April 25, 2016

    Gail,

    Yep, there are slim pickings out there. It’s why if a woman has a half-way decent husband who loves her and she loves him, she should hold onto him and overlook his shortcomings, cuz it doesn’t get much better that thathttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

    American women go for the charm, romance and good looks of the foreign men. It’s all superficial. They don’t look beyond the surface.

    I think you’re right. Many American women don’t learn until they are hooked and into deep. They have to learn the hard way http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gif

  • Gail

    April 25, 2016

    Arzoo,

     I read your post and u are spot on about India men and u can just as easily type there Pakistani men as well.American culture and India and Pakistani cultures are at complete opposite side of the spectrum.American women and European women just don’t get it and most can’t even truly begin to comprehend it until they have already married and are shocked into reality.I would also add that women soon find out that love in India and Pakistani culture has more to do with a wife doing her husbands will more than a 50/50 relationship with mutual respect for each other.I can only speak in my case and I honestly assume in most cases why American women mix up with India and Pakistani and foreign men in general is because the majority of American men are lazy and whiny and not strong willed or strong minded.Even to this day I see American men outside grilling and drinking beer and covered in tattoos and on their time off work they talk about going fishing or going camping etc…They are not money/business orientated type of people and alot of middle class American women want a business minded type of husband who has a desire to make something in life.I don’t know where the happy medium is going to be when it comes to American women finding decent men it makes me sad to think about it and I haven’t even touched on religious topics.

     

     

     

     

  • anabellah

    April 23, 2016

    eilrem,

    Hello http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    Hopefully you’re the exception and not the rule. I suggest you not take a chance on him and move on with your life. You’ve been warned!

  • eilrem

    April 23, 2016

    oh my! Very thankful i read this blog coz i have a boyfriend a pakistani who promised me to marry asap….but hopefully not all coz i love him

  • anabellah

    April 16, 2016

    GogoGori,

    I suggest you take ummof4’s advice. She’s right. Try to stay off the internet, trying to meet someone to wed. The good old fashion way of meeting people is the best. If you try to do it on your own, you will encounter problems. It’s not the way to go. ummof4 gave very good suggestions on where and how to meet a potential husband. In the  interim of finding a man to wed, keep yourself pure and chaste. Save yourself for the man who will be your husband. Don’t go testing people out. Your body is for one man, your husband only.

  • ummof4

    April 16, 2016

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Gogogori, 28 years is still a baby to me, but I understand how you may feel that the years are flying by and you are still single.  However, I believe that you can find  nice young man to marry who will be honest with you.  My advice is to stay away from the internet and go out to meet real people.  I don’t remember if you said you were Muslim or not, so I’ll address bothsistuations. 

    If you are not a Muslim, the old-fashioned way still works – going to events that interest you, joining a club or practicing a hobby, following up on suggestions from relatives and friends who really know you, your personality and your goals in life.  My youngest sister, who is not Muslim, was introduced to her husband of 29 years by our nephew (they were in the same fraternity).  My husband and I were married before we were Muslim, and we met through his younger sister who was my student in high school.

    If you are Muslim, you need to speak to your walee about marriage.   You can also speak to family and friends about your desire to be married. 

    Whether you are Muslim or non-Muslim, remember not to do this on your own.  We all need the advice and guidance of family and friends.  And investigate before you invest.  Last but not least, protect your chastity and reputation – once soiled, it’s hard to clean up. 

    Everyone, enjoy today and the rest of your life by obeying Allah.

     

     

  • anabellah

    April 15, 2016

    Arzoo,

    Thank you again for the information. I’m tracking. All that you said makes total sense to me. I understand what you said about the Indian men not adjusting to the wife’s culture, but it the other way around. It’s virtually impossible for a man from a male dominated country who’s indoctrinated that way to change to be submissive to the women or adopt her way. I agree that the western women probably think the Indian culture is cool initially and think they will adapt easily. I could see how there would be clashes between them eventually.

    @Gogogori,

    I totally get when you say you don’t want to sterotype, but sometimes it’s in order. Look, I hear all the time about Nigerian scams. They’re prevalent in the US or were. It’s all I ever heard about Nigerians. Now, whenever a Nigerian wants to sell me something or approach me with a business proposition, I don’t hesitate to politely say NO! I will not do business with a Nigerian. No offense against them as humans. When I just recently updated the blog theme here, I had to look for a programmer/coder person to put the comment box at the top of the page for me and change the wording. I put the work out for bid. A few Nigerians applied for the job. I didn’t bother to look at their qualifications or anything else. All I needed to see was the country they were from was Nigeria. Is it wrong? Maybe. I’d rather be safe than sorry though. Stereotyping may not be good, but it could save me from a whole lot of bad…

  • Arzoo

    April 15, 2016

    Hi Gogogori,

    You have an interesting screen name :) I think you already know that in Hindi/Urdu “Gori” means “white woman”.

    Glad to hear that you are able to think logically and made a smart decision http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

    Well don’t be fooled by his title of Senior Engineer. Tech companies have a lot of work that many are not willing to do. The reason tech companies hire so many of foreign engineers on H1B visa is because someone has to do the grunt work that no one else wants to do and they are bound by their H1B visa to only work for their sponsor company and not change jobs quickly. They often don’t have good work-life balance. They don’t have relatives and family circle here. Especially single young people have no problem working long hours, always be on call/checking emails and showing up for weekend meetings and such. When they get married their nice Indian wives take care of home and kids while they continue working extra long hours. They always seem to give priority to money than to relations especially with spouse

    Compared to them an american citizen has a lot more opportunities and different priorities than just earning the money. They  would rather have a job that has better work life balance and they like to have hobbies, travel and do much more than check their emails all day long and wake up in the middle of night to some more of the same. Work never stops in tech companies including on holidays like thanksgiving and Christmas so someone is needed to do all that others don’t want. Now i am not saying that all international engineers are doing undesirable work. Some of them are very skilled and smart. They are in demand and in a position to negotiate with employers for a better work life balance, they fare smart enough for example to follow the rules and don’t make mistakes that will hurt their potential to get a green card if thats their goal. 

    Being used for immigrations isn’t the only risk that you will take. You have saved yourself from a lot of drama and abuse. Indian men don’t believe in adjusting or adapting to wife’s culture but want her to adapt to his culture. Women do all that voluntarily and find the other culture’s stuff cool and all that. Men may also act all modern and flexible initially but things change after marriage and kids. Indian parents are often very attached to their sons. Sons income is their only or main retirement plan. Yes, they consider it their birth right to depend on and stay with their married sons. There are blogs  and online forums filled up with such stories. Many educated Indian women have stopped being a servant for in-laws but a few western women get fooled into doing it in the name of cultural adjustment. So be thankful for all the in-law drama that you have saved yourself from other than ending up divorced only to see him marrying an Indian woman or making you serve him and family do or else he will threaten to leave you for an Indian woman. Basically it is hard to find a plus point except that he might be earning well. That too is a disadvantage if you are career oriented. Your career will be put to lower priority and you will be expected to pick up the slack or do everything at home. I have seen just too many of well qualified wives to get so stressed between housework and career that they quit their jobs. It may be a good option for someone who isn’t career oriented and is ok with doing all domestic work and letting the man progress in career and earn the money. There is nothing wrong in being stay at home mother but with Indian/Pakistani men its a recipe to ending up bitter and vulnerable to all kinds of abuse.

  • Gogogori

    April 15, 2016

    Correction -I kept saying masters – I meant to say PhD

  • Gogogori

    April 15, 2016

    Wow, thanks for writing, Arzoo! I was the one who wrote about this man. :) I had already decided to stop pursuing a relationship with him, but what you wrote made things go from clear to HD crystal clear. It helps so much to be informed! He is in his third year working at twitter and went from an intern to a senior level engineer within that short amount of time…I have proof of this and didn’t take his word. He just applied for his green card/work sponsoring him and did mention the INSANE amount of paperwork he had to go through, but says even after he gets the green card, it’s likely he might have to wait up to 8 additional years for citizenship since every country has a different waiting period and India has a long line of people. Perhaps he didn’t do well with research in his masters program – I must say his spelling is awful and word usage very basic (Ie, not what one would expect from a PhD student) He’s very lucky that he got such a good job. He did tell me he 100% plans to go back for his masters  -I’m left scratching my head as to why he dropped out when he only had a year remaining. 

    Ana, yes, I had a MAJOR crush on him, but immediately red flags were raised which is why I started asking questions. Although it would be easy to ignore because he’s amazing in every other way, I have a really nice life (a year away from masters, stable career, no kids, never married, still kinda-sorta young at 28) to EVER buy stock in something so risky. Unfortunately since there’s no way to know his true intentions till after he gets the official stamp as a citizen, I’m too afraid to touch him with a ten foot pole.

    I’ll say it again…. I absolutely hate to stereotype and say he’s only wanting a relationship for citizenship because there’s a chance he might be genuine. Unfortunately, there’s no way to ever know till I’m in deep. Too bad! 

  • anabellah

    April 14, 2016

    I erred in my other post. I meant to say “Many times the men don’t show that side of themselves until it’s getting closer for him to be legal.” I think you all probably knew what I meant, but still.

  • anabellah

    April 14, 2016

    Arzoo,

    I like your post. It’s very informative. I learned a lot from it. It all is logical. You probably called it right about what’s happening with the guy GogoGori is in “love” with.

    I agree that a marriage of convenience is not the way to go. GogoGori is apparently way into the Indian guy and has built him up in her mind to be her ideal mate when all along he’s just looking to get legal.

    It’s easy for women not to understand that they and the men aren’t thinking the same. They both have separate agendas and there is no true meeting of the minds. Then when he begins to treat her badly because he doesn’t want to be with her the way that she does, she’s hurt and doesn’t understand why he’s treating her that way. Many times the women don’t show that side of the men until it’s getting closer for him to be legal and free so that he could leave her and go be with whom he wants to be with and do the things he really want to do. We’ve heard it on this blog from some of the ladies about how it was for them.

    I’m confused at times about what the best policy is other than honesty. I know it’s best to be truthful.  I understand the men’s plight in wanting a better life and I understand women wanting a man whom they can really love. The man is wrong to lie and deceive. What part does the woman play in it? What’s her responsibility and accountability?

    Your post was very interesting.

  • Arzoo

    April 14, 2016

    Ana, I hope you can post my previous comment where its relevant. I read that comment and forgot where it was. Sorry for typos. i wanted to share whatever i knew from personal experience and warn this person. 

    She also talked about getting married in India and not registering marriage in US. Chances are he will happily agree to whatever demands she makes. The truth is that he is marrying for convenience not true companionship. Why set yourself up for failure when you can do better.

  • Arzoo

    April 14, 2016

    Hi Ana, 

    I forgot where i read this comment about an Indian Muslim who came to US for PhD, dropped out of PhD, been working in US for many years but don’t have green card. I think i know why he might not have a green card yet. Firstly, when you come to US on a student visa you are only supported to do what the visa has allowed you i.e. be a student and not try to seek employment etc. I know many of my fellow students were denied visa because of suspicion that the might have other intentions than just being a student e.g. having many relatives or close family living in US already or answers to interview question indicating that you intent to immigrate permanently to US. 

    This person was on student visa and engaged in seeking employment  before completing the PhD. He somehow managed to get a sponsor and get work visa. maybe he agreed to work for less money or used some connections with an employment agency. The usual and legal route for students is to complete their graduate degree for which they were given the visa. At the end of graduation they are given what is known as OPT, optional practical training option which means they are allowed to look for internships or employment in their area of expertise (basically they are not allowed to just take any job e.g. a computer engineer cannot start driving a taxi, start a business or work at a random job unrelated to his/her degree). They have to have an offer letter within 3 months of date of completion of degree. If they get such an offer for internship or job they are allowed to work on OPT status for 1 year and i think it can be extended for some time (i didnt do that so don’t know details).

    Now while they are on student visa and have this OPT temporary permission to get work experience in their field their employer can apply for a work visa H1B for them. This visa is usually 3 years i think and is renewed again for next 3 years. While working on H1B visa you can apply for green card. Sometimes employers apply for you. their are different categories for that too. People with outstanding contribution in their field of expertise have a separate category and can get a green card more easily than any regular green card applicant. They have do a LOT of paperwork to prove their outstanding contribution (references from reliable professors in US and other countries who are researching in your area of expertise and can write about your significant contributions to the field). Its a long and difficult process to ensure that only deserving candidates get into this category for green card.

    So basically this person dropped out of Phd, somehow got sponsorship H1B to work so no wonder he is having problem getting a green card. Any immigrate official looking at his application gets bad impression and sees the fact that he didnt respect the purpose of his student visa and engaged in seeking employment. Also looks like even after working for twitter his company hasn’t helped him get a green card meaning he doesn’t have any extraordinary contribution to his area of expertise to qualify for that. Now this man is looking for other options to get green card. What better option than getting married to a citizen! 

    I also suspect that maybe he didnt drop out of PhD but was made to do so because of lack of performance. If you don’t do well on your research work you are asked to drop out of PhD. Some people are offered an option to take a Masters Degree instead if they have already completed some part of research that can qualify as Masters level project.

    I think this person is not being truthful and have a hidden agenda. He also said his parents tried to arrange a marriage few times but it diet work out. Educated Indian women are very aware these days and don’t marry any person their parent arranges for them. they get in touch with the guy. Meet or interact with the guy on phone or through internet. If they don’t feel comfortable or find something wrong they break off the process at that point. This is common part of arranged marriage these days and women aren’t afraid to reject men. So my guess is this guy has been rejected by a few Indian women. He isn’t doing anything outstanding in his job. he is on H1B which restricts you to work for only the employer who is sponsoring you. If they fire you the you are legally require to leave the country so he is looking for ways to secure his future here which he failed to do through his employer getting him a green card.

     

  • anabellah

    April 13, 2016

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Hello to all in cyberspace,

    Occasionally someone will ask me to remove his or her comments/posts from the blog. I have changed the name of a person or two who have used they’re real name and asked to change it to a fictitious one to avoid being identified. I will certainly try to accommodate a request such as it.

    I cannot, however, remove comments/posts of commentators who simply don’t want their posts on the blog any longer for a reason other than what I mentioned. Those posts/comments make the blog. They are a part of the blog. People reply to those comments. I have enough to do without adding the task of searching for someone’s comments and removing them.

    Please note: I will not remove comments once they have been approved and posted unless there is a dire need to honor such request.

  • anabellah

    April 11, 2016

    I just put another article out there in cyberspace to alert the foreign women about what may await them when they embark upon a relationship with a Pakistani man:

    http://www.polygamy411.com/the-danger-of-pakistani-men/

  • anabellah

    April 11, 2016

    Gail,

    You did that. You told it like it is http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

     

     

     

  • Gail

    April 11, 2016

    Gogo Gori,

     I read your last post after I posted to u.I am happy u decided not to go through with it Thanks G.D! Keep yourself safe because u are worth more than gold to the right man never sell yourself short!

  • Gail

    April 11, 2016

    Gogo gori,

     Listen don’t be crazy and listen to your inner voice u understand everything clear enough now.Look if u think u will marry him in a traditional India wedding and it means nothing in USA u are WRONG.I married in Pakistan and it was and is totally legal here in USA.Even u can say u will not sponsor him and he may still say ok that is fine but once u are married everything changes.What wife can say no to her husband after marriage.If u could then u really don’t love him because helping your spouse is what marriage is all about.U are in a NO WIN situation here DON”T U GET IT? The charm he is showing u is fake and will never last esp after marriage.I hate being so D@mn pessimistic all the time on the blog with ladies but these peoples culture is not our culture and if u did marry him u are going to best case end up divorced and worse case in a Mental Hospital.

    If u think u can outsmart him u can’t and won’t.In my case I have been married to a Pakistani man for 13 yrs and because of my children I have fought and fought to keep my family together and not divorce BUT I have suffered with so many health issues including Cancer twice which I am convinced that my health issues physical and mental obviously stem from my husband.U DON”T GET IT.U might say oh well u kept your family together and Yes I have but at a very high price I have done so.

      Also u have to understand these Muslims be it Pakistani or India they do cousin marriages with their children also and they don’t give in about it.My husband really wants to marry our kids with his brothers kids and obviously this is not my culture nor my childrens so again huge fight might be coming in the future on this issue alone.U have no clue what the Hell u are doing.

  • anabellah

    April 10, 2016

    It happens. It was in the news that an Indian guy and his girlfriend conspired together and killed his wife in an area not far from where I live. They did a special and reenactment of it on TV not long ago.

  • baseema

    April 10, 2016
    or you could always just do it, you might have at the least, a couple of good years with him, just do a pre-nup, make sure if he  divorces you, that he will pay dearly to keep you and any children in the same living situation, and  you get full custody in the case of divorce, and keep the house, etc, so you stay living with what you are accustomed to! go to a lawyer and protect yourself and any future children. if he still agrees to that, then maybe you have a marriage!? http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gifjust hope he doesnt conspire to kill you off first! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif kidding! i hope! nah, on 2nd thought, maybe? skip it! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gifand no big life insurance policies! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif i would be scared!
  • GogoGori

    April 10, 2016

    Ana, 

    No thank you! I’m fortunate enough to learn by example, not from my own life experience. I know I’m no exception. My head is spinning and it takes up so much energy trying to anticipate every move men make and what’s the under-lying reason. I just want to hold my puppy and think a bit. :)

    I’m beginning to think finding self-happiness and never getting married might be the easiest way in this life! Take care and thank you for the wonderful advice, everyone. You all truly do save SO many people heartache down the road and steer them away from disaster. 

  • anabellah

    April 10, 2016

    GogoGori,

    I’m going to keep telling you to walk away from that man. There is no sure way to tell if he’s lying or not other than to call his bluff and say you want to get married in India, Indian style, which is still no guarantee if you register the marriage. Your marriage would still be legally recognized in the US, I’m assuming he’d be a US citizen just by being married to you for a certain time. As I said, I’m no immigration expert. I’m just going on my limited knowledge and understanding. What is to prevent him from divorcing you and marrying another whom his family want him to marry in India?

    It would be different if those Pakistani and Indian men believed in polygamy and wanted to marry women to love and take care of them all. It’s not like that. They don’t like polygamy and polygamy is not an acceptable way of life to them. They’d rather use people for what they can get  and dispose of them as though they were trash.

    Why do you think you’re an exception? He needs citizenship or a Green Card. What make you think you are so different than the others who got used? Maybe you need a reality check and marrying him may be just the thing for you.

  • anabellah

    April 10, 2016

    Save me,

    You made me laugh. I can relate to you. I used to be one not to curse. When I was out working in a career, I was in a profession in which I interviewed many people and had to write reports on what they said. I used to have to dictate the reports for the secretary to type and I’d spell the profane words, as I couldn’t bring myself to say them. Even when I had to testify in court for one of my cases and say what the person told me, a judge once had to order me to say the word. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_yes.gif  All it took was for something traumatic to happen to me in my life and I was cursing, not quite like a sailor, but almost. LOL I’m still working on trying to stop till this very day. I pray with the help and permission of Allah, I will sooner than later.

    I totally understand how you are angry and pissed off about that dunce that you are in love with. I’d be, too, if I were you. Here you are in love with this man and thinking he’s in love with you and he so easily goes off and propose to another woman. Not only it, he had the audacity to ask  you to help him in his pursuit.

    Just thank Allah much that he let you see the light and rid yourself of that loser before it was too late. Get yourself a nice Malyasian guy or any man for a husband who is a citizen and doesn’t need you for it. Marriage is difficult enough without adding someone using you for a Green Card or citizenship. Learn your lesson from this one and don’t repeat it. It was a valuable lesson.http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

  • ummof4

    April 10, 2016

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Save Me, I’m glad we helped save you.  But it was the plan of Allah all along, he just used us to help you.  Stay strong, now that you have no blinders on.  However, it might be to your benefit to move on ans stop talking to him so much.  He might trap you again in his web.  I’m assuming you are Muslim.  Ask Allah to send you a sincere Muslim man who loves and obeys Allah and would not play any tricks or try to deceive you.  That is, if you want to be married.

    GogoGori,  thanks for the update.  If it is a legitimate marriage, it takes about 2 years for a person to get a green card, which is permanent residency and has to be renewed every 10 years.  I know this because my daughter married a Muslim from another country and I did all the paperwork for them.  (If the laws haven’t changed since 2010.) Citizenship is another issue; the US doesn’t have dual citizenship, so the person has to give up the citizenship of the home country.  

    I like your idea of suggesting that you go to India and have a traditional wedding that takes days or weeks, that the whole world knows about.  I doubt that he will be willing to do that.  However, I caution you about going to India with him without a male family member.  Strange things happen to women who do not have a male escort.  Step lightly.  

    Spirited, Fatima, Laila, and others, please check in when you can.  I think of you as my little sisters/nieces.

    May Allah bless us all to love and worship Him in the proper way that He commanded.

  • GogoGori

    April 10, 2016

    Here’s my update. 

    I point blank asked him about the process. I have to say I still do not understand everything. He says he applied for a green card in 2015 and mentioned something about you need a sponsor to apply (in this case, his work is sponsoring him). He says things are looking sort of gloomy as then one is put on a longgg wait list and all in all, it may take him 7-8 more years to become a citizen. 

    Then 2 hours later he was talking about how he likes me so much and that I’m someone he could see himself married to. Hmmm :)

    You all are right, as a leading senior level engineer at Twitter, he is a HUGE prize back in his country, especially coming from a family of doctors. I would not doubt his family has someone picked out for him and it just hasn’t worked out due to the complicated process of a non-citizen (him) trying to bring over another non-citizen (whoever they likely picked for him). 

    Oh! Let me count the ways he’s sooooo charming and wants to spend every moment of his free time with me and is treating me like a princess. 

    Although I hate to stereotype since I know it CAN be genuine, it’s too much of a gamble. The scary part is that, I believe, once married, it takes another few years before the marriage becomes verified and he’s issued U.S. citizenship. This means I’ll already have a life with him…. maybe even a child and then I risk years into the marriage him changing like a light switch as soon as he becomes a citizen. He may then divorce me, bring over a wife from India, switch from a charming prince to someone completely different. 

    He really seems like such a sweetheart, I just wish there was someway I could know his true intentions. Unfortunately, what’s he going to say? “yes, i’m marrying you for citizenship!” or, “yep, you nailed it on the head, I have someone picked out back home I’ll marry once I get citizenship”. No DOUBT his parents will be supportive of him dating and marrying me since it’ll get him out of his gloomy situation.

    I honestly just hate how there’s no way to TRULY know. 

    hehe…. I suppose there is one TRUE way to find out his intentions:) I could always tell him I will only go for a traditional Indian wedding in India, (you know, the kind where the marriage is not recognized in the United States. :P ) Yes, that should do the trick. :D

  • Save me

    April 10, 2016

    Hi everyone,

    I came to post here just two months ago. Thank you for saving me.

    You see, being the nice person I am, I am still friends with the pakistani guy who wanted to marry me. Only because i respect another human being despite whatever weird background or culture he came from. I manage to firmly reject his marriage proposal (that came after 1 month of knowing each other). We are still friends but he occasionally touches the marriage issue and the one and only love he found is with me thing which i simply ignore and stood firm about. A week ago, while chatting on whatsapp he told me he is sad because another of his proposal to a local lecturer was rejected. I’m a malaysian by the way. Just minutes before telling me that he was still flirting and owh marry me and i love you thing with me…what the hell right? Being the “super duper nice now i feel stupid kind of girl” i just played along and told him his gonna find someone for him, so dont worry….all this while he is still flirting with me?he proposed another lady while still flirting with me? God has saved me from such a dumbass (mind my language, but i feel freaking hilarious that man like this actually exist, and i dont even use foul words, and i was pretty positive about the whole pakistani guy even after reading this forum)….shit now i feel like i need to save all of you….yesterday he contacted me and he was flirting as usual, convincing me that i do love him its just that i am playing safe and not fighting for him….trust me, he is the head of pakistan students in the university and he is very respectful and pious and all….then he told me he loves the girl who replaced me in the office (i have change into a different department) and he wants me to help ask the girl for a hand in his marriage….WHAT THE HELL? Please dear friends…and ladies…i have learnt my lesson, and I’m lucky to jump out of this whole messed up situation before anything got worst…whoever is already in the fight, stay strong my sincere prayers are for all of you….to the admin of this forum or whatever this is, please dont change to another forum or new discussion because people need to read from the very first page of this comment section… May Allah protect us all from the harms of man in this world…i love you all ladies and you worth more than some of this scumbags…(sorry again, i still cannot brain what just happened to me)…

    Sincerely,Save me (i’ve been saved)

  • MSN

    April 10, 2016

    Gail & Rihane

    First I am not a female & second what I do now you stamped on all pakistanis that all are same? 

    Yeah maybe it happened or happening I don’t know I didn’t visit US but I think so already married people doing this kind of cheap things so what other pakistanis have to do let me know?

  • Gail

    April 10, 2016

    Gogo Gori,

     Hello I am Gail and I read your post and I also agree with the other women as far as u taking a huge risk since he is not a USA citizen.If your Boyfriend is here on a work visa then that is totally different than a green card.Most India and Pakistani people come here on work visa’s and try to marry a USA citizen knowing that is the sure way of obtaining USA citizenship fast.I will say this though if he doesn’t have citizenship then the risk is to great that he has intent to benefit from you.These men and their families always and I mean always see their personal benefit first.Also don’t believe him if he says something like he don’t need u to get a greencard or citizenship(that is a classic trap) because they know after they marry u then u r trapped so don’t fall for that line of BS.They are smooth talkers so be careful because u r playing with fire.As far as a greencard he don’t qualify under family unless his mom or dad or sibling is a USA citizen or he is married to a USA citizen so that just leaves job related greencard which again seems to me if he is working at twitter as an engineer that might not be a enough to get him a greencard and immigration status(thats why he is here so long on work visas instead of having a greencard is my thinking).Hope this helps 

     

     

     

     

     

  • baseema

    April 9, 2016

    gogogori, run! lol his family will allow him to marry you, then you will have a baby and he will be set for life! i’m pretty sure the fastest path to citizenship is thru marriage! and having kids with you…that child would be a natural born citizen…but remember, no matter how modern his family may be, they have already tried to arrange a marriage and he is a big prize in that country, so he will also have a wife back there to do the cooking and cleaning for his parents, -if he doesn’t already! also, are you prepared he may someday take your child back to his country and never come back? think hard before jumping into this….

    not to be rude, but he is picking you because it’s easy. Child of a single parent, there is not going to be much opposition, you’re white, a US citizen, you’re sweet and kind, he hit the gold mine!

  • anabellah

    April 9, 2016

    No problema. It’s nice talking with you. We’re here for you whenever you want to chit chat more :-)

  • GogoGori

    April 9, 2016

    Ana, I agree. There must be MORE to it than living in the U.S. for five years with a green card. I’ll set up notifications and check back. The help is much appreciated. :)

  • anabellah

    April 9, 2016

    I don’t know much about citizenship/immigration/naturalization. Gail is pretty knowledgeable on the subject. She’s been quite busy and hasn’t been able to get here as much as she used to. If you can, check back regularly to see if she’s been here and replied to you. You could set up notification for this post/theme as well to make it easier for you. Is it really that simple that a person only needs to be in the country for five yearshttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif  Seems as though there must be more to it than that. Interesting…

  • GogoGori

    April 9, 2016

    I meant to include he has been in the U.S. for a total of 8 years now. 

  • GogoGori

    April 9, 2016

    Thanks, Ana!

    From the quick glance I took at the site, it appears you can apply to become a citizen via naturalization after five years of being in the U.S. – if I understood it correctly! So he has been living in the United States for quick some time now as a student going for his PhD and working. So why is it that he still doesn’t have citizenship?http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif hmmm… I suppose I’ll have to ask him directly. It should be easy enough to casually bring up the topic with elections coming up and simply dive into it by asking “so when are you going to be able to vote”. :)

  • anabellah

    April 9, 2016

    GogoGori,

    Go to the following site and you may find the information that you are looking for: https://www.uscis.gov/

  • GogoGori

    April 9, 2016

    I agree with you all from skimming through this blog. There’s a chance he could be a great guy, but it seems the truly great guys are few and far between and there’s really no way to find out beforehand.   It isn’t worth the chance.

    How long does it typically take to gain citizenship? I think his work is sponsoring him. Since he has a really great job (I was able to verify he’s a super higher up at his company) then citizenship would be the only thing I’m afraid he’d be using me for. I don’t understand… how long should it take him to gain citizenship on his own? I don’t know how long the process takes. 

     

  • anabellah

    April 9, 2016

    GogoGori, Hi and welcome,

    I suggest you listen to what ummof4 and kim said. Take heed to warning. Why put yourself out there like that, knowing that there is a strong possibility that he only wants you for what he can get from you? Why bother to try to figure it out? Are you so attracted to him because he a foreign, handsome, charming man? Come on! There is more to a marriage than that. None of it last. Once you’re married, it’s a different world. All that initial stuff subsides and you settle into a real relationship. Do you really want to deal with all the cultural drama?

    Gail would tell you that there are very little difference between Indian and Pakistani men. A lot of their culture is the same. They were both one country once upon a time. I’m no history buff, but I know that much. There were women here who were married to Indian men and they got scammed the same as those who were married to Pakistani men. All that kim said is true. They try to win you over by gaining your confidence. He may just be pretending to be so honest and wanting you to meet his parents and all like you’re so special. The parents and his family benefit if he becomes a citizen. They all work together for the betterment of their family. Granted, not every single Indian and Pakistani man is like that, but why chance it. You could probably do better than that. Don’t sell yourself short.

    Baseema will tell you that there is no way to investigate those men. There is no right question to ask them. You can’t go to India and conduct an investigation. Bribery and lying is customary for many of them, so you not likely to get the truth.

    Run while you’re not in too deep. Don’t be foolish. Don’t let him bamboozle you. Tell him to go take a hike and stay away from foreign men in that region.

  • kim

    April 9, 2016

    Sweetheart. All the red flags are there. You met online. He’s charming, sweeps you off your feet. Wants to get married. Work visa. Parents will meet you of course because you will be the “foreign wife & dummy” willing to marry and will give him citizenship. Please keep your head about this. It appears that he is being so incredibly honest & open. Except there is a beautiful girl back hone that his parents will demand he marry. But he will be so madly in love with you and still have to listen to his parents.

    I say comb through this blog and compare the stories. EVERYTHING you’ve shared sounds just like the same thing Pakistani men do for citizenship.  Compare your story to what is here. Please be careful!!! Please. 

  • ummof4

    April 9, 2016

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    GogoGori, welcome to the blog.  I am not an expert on Indian men, but from being on this blog for the past few years, I have learned a great deal about Indian and Pakistani men.  I would advise you not to believe him and what he says about his history and his parents.  There is some reason that he does not have a green card yet, and you may be his ticket to get one.

    Is he Muslim?  Are you Muslim? Are you sure that he has the job that he has told you he has?

    The reason I ask is that most Muslim men from India or Pakistan are either already married when they move out of the country or are already promised to and intend to marry a girl from India or Pakistan, regardless of what they tell you.

    There are women on this blog more qualified than me to advise you on what questions to ask.  Hopefully they will chime in soon.

    Everyone have a good day serving Allah as He commanded us to.

     

  • GogoGori

    April 9, 2016

    Hi all, 

    Is anyone familiar with Indian men? I was wondering if I could get some advice. I met an indian man online and we went for a date. I really like him a LOT. However, I’m a smart woman and realize his culture is different than mine. Here’s a few things I asked him on our first date. 

    1) He is very marriage minded and let me know he’s ready to settle down and get married very soon. I did some casual probing later in the evening. I asked how long has he been in the United States –> since he was 25 and he’s now 32. He dropped out of college year 3 of his phD to get a job at age 30 with Twitter (engineer). It appears he has been working the past few years and his work is sponsoring his visa. It seems like he has it together, but I’m unsure how long it takes for him to become a U.S. citizen so of course I’m worried he might be SO marriage minded since he wants citizenship. Could it be?

    2) Would his parents accept a gori girlfriend/wife. He responded they have tried to do semi-arranged marriages with him twice in his life, however, they didn’t work out. He says although his parents are traditional, they ultimately care about his happiness and will support whoever he chooses to marry and that he’d be happy to introduce me to them. He mentioned he does come from a high caste…. brother and sister in law are surgeons, mom has Masters, dad is a Dr. I suppose I’d be low in a cast lol…. dad passed when I was young and grew up with a secretary mom. I’m currently a special education teacher although working on my masters. No kids and never married before -I’m 28 and a white American. 

    -His parents live overseas in India and do not live with him. Additionally, they are coming to visit in a month and he says he’d be glad to introduce me to them.

    He seems very sweet, but what do you all think? Is there anything we should specifically discuss before entering into a relationship? I must admit my biggest concern would be he’s using me for citizenship, but he’s so highly educated working at a great place and has his work sponsoring him. Thoughts? Any other questions I should ask him?

  • anabellah

    April 5, 2016

    Marah S

    You should feel very fortunate indeed to have not gotten caught up what could have resulted in a nightmare for you. Thank Allah much for saving you from it. I hope you’re having a nice marriage. Is your husband interested in engaging in polygamy or you’re interested in it for him?

  • Arzoo

    April 5, 2016

    Jennifer, wow 17 years! i hope you are doing ok. I think not knowing their culture and language keeps western women from finding out the truth sooner. I can’t believe you got along with his plan to do an immigration fraud. 

  • Marah S

    April 4, 2016
    Wow, this entire thread gives me goose bumps. Before I got married, I met this Pakistani boy who I met at my school library, i assumed he was a student. I was never interested in him, but he was very pushy and did everything in his power to charm me. He asked so many times to marry him and even had me speak with his sister. I agree’d to go on a couple of dates, with him just so he would ease up a little, but then the marriage talk started coming again, so I told him straight up I wasn’t interested in marrying him and he should leave me alone. He got really angry and I never heard from him again, one of my friends later told me that her brother knew him and turns out he was never even a student at my university and he ended up moving back to Pakistan. Now All these stories makes me feel like I got lucky, only Allah knows what could have happened if I had accepted to marry him.
  • baseema

    April 4, 2016
    Believe me, there is no way you can investigate these guys. Even my friend there told me, anything can be faked with enough money. Bank statements, birth certificates, you name it. There is also a never ending supply of family and friends to back them up. These guys are also well educated and most all have college degrees. They are smarter than you and , for one, because they are bilingual or know even several languages. They might act dumb, but believe me, they are clever and cunning. They tell you what you want to hear and they back it up with proof. Never think you can get one over on them, or you know the score.  It’ll most likely blow up in your face.
  • Jennifer

    April 4, 2016

    This exact thing happened to me. I was with him for 17 years and buikt a life together and had 3 kids. He asked me to devorce him so he coukd get a fake marriage to then later devorce her so she could narry his brother to bring him to Canada. Inly to realize he was really married to his first cousin and they had two kids together. He got caught cause the stupid bastard moved his pakistani family right behind me 2 streets away. Beware it is very true. 

  • anabellah

    April 3, 2016

    A major problem is that many women from Western countries don’t know enough to investigate men from other cultures. They base their judgment on what they know. I would never have known that I’d have to delve into how a person was raised to know whether I should marry him or not. I’d look at whether I’m attracted to him, if he’s educated so we could communicate and what his finances are – how could he enrich my life. Some women only think of the physical – is she attracted to him enough so that they could love one another, have good sex, get married, have babies and hopefully live happily-ever-after. It’s the size of it.  Westernized women aren’t familiar with trying to determine if the man is going to scam her or not. As Gail had mentioned, some have no idea what polygamy is. So, how could she be on the lookout for what she doesn’t know about?

  • MSN

    April 3, 2016

    Gail

    Okay I got your point but only one thing I want to say that you should know how to judge a person is he good or not

     

  • kim

    April 3, 2016

    Gail!

    AMEN! You are 100% right. Ladies, be careful!   PLEASEPLEASE!

    Kim

     

  • Gail

    April 3, 2016

    MSN,

     If u want to take the a chance and marry your Pakistani man then by all means do it.The blog is just to give info to women that are thinking to marry in the Pakistani culture or have done so and having a hard time sifting through the culture and lies etc… U mentioned that your parents raised u well and u know yourself well I and all the other women thought the same thing.The majority of us are educated are only crime was that we trusted.

     

     

  • MSN

    April 2, 2016

    If they marry someone they have to be with them

  • MSN

    March 31, 2016
    I agree with all of you but there is some positivity also. I am satisfied about my self what my parents treat & teach me.
    I can understand why anyone go to the bad place to find a good person everyone want to find good place to find a good person.it’s a nature

    “If you find a loyalty then you got what all you need”

  • Gail

    March 30, 2016
    MSN,

    I disagreed with u on the grounds that for foreign women it is impossible to to view a Pakistani mans family background.It’s just to risky in my opinion.We have one foreign born Pakistani lady on the blog and she had an arranged marriage which i am certain her parents did the family background check and he came up clean as a whistle and she still got screwed in the deal.

  • Gail

    March 30, 2016
    MSN,

    I am sorry but I have to disagree with u.It is a cultural thing not a city thing.Besides KHI is a very danger city to live in.I have been there and didn’t have a good experience with KHI at all.
    I do get what u are saying it’s like people from Pindi saying we are different that Peshawar people etc..and in some ways they are but culturally and mind set as far as I have seen all are the same.I think it is wise for foreign women and Foreign born Pakistani women to be careful since picking the wrong the person can be devastating for a women.

  • MSN

    March 30, 2016
    I was taking about the ratio it’s not mean all karachi people are 100% loyal or educated but you know 80% revenue of pakistan earn by Karachi only 20% other pakistan cities just giving a example and the main thing is it’s depends how your parents teach you.

    I know about these incidents happen, you are right I just want to share the information because I am also pakistani too.

  • Rihane

    March 30, 2016
    @MSN
    I think we are talking about Pakistan & Karachi isn’t out of Pakistan.. Now dont tell me there are all educated, ethical and decent people in the city lolz :D
    As already discussed in many posts these people are all around and representing them with what they are up to
    So sorry to hear so many incidents happening for girls in Western,Eastern and other countries
  • MSN

    March 29, 2016
    I want to say all fingers are not equal & village & Punjab province has some problems like these but if you choice a guy from karachi city side so may you find out more loyalty.
    Thanks
  • Gail

    March 29, 2016
    Noir,

    Your relative that is Black and keeping her Pakistani man for 10 yrs is the exception not the rule.
    Look go on any of these Muslim Dating sites and notice when they describe themselves they put their skin color is wheatish(meaning to them fair complected) even it don’t matter if they are as Black as the Ace of Spades they will lie and put wheatish lol.
    I myself had a black sister inlaw married to my eldest brother inlaw(I introduced them) and they married.Well my brother inlaw and family HATEDDDDD her with a passion! Needless to say their marriage lasted all but like 3 years max and my brother inlaw ditched her like a Hot Potato.
    U are correct in saying that Pakistani men are ma
    marrying Black women to some extent but u have to understand they are doing so for greencards.
    As far as your Pakistani Boyfriend wanting u to live in Pakistan that is lie and a huge red flag or should be.I assume your family member is not living in Pakistan and helped her Paki husband to immigrate if I had to guess.I don’t really see him being in USA or her country and picking her if he did not need her for immigration(although I could be wrong) but my gut says more than likely she helped him to immigrate and helps him by sending money to his family back in Pakistan.
    Look u are seeing out of Rose colored glasses and before u up and do something drastic like marry this Dude u need to go have a heart to heart with your family member and ask her if her husband sends money back to Pakistan and figure out if there is some motive why he is staying with her.100% she is bending to his will and doing what he ask of her like helping out the family back in pakistan and sending expensive gifts(which gets old fast) etc… Just be certain what u r getting into or u are going to cry after.

  • anabellah

    March 28, 2016

    kim,

    Welcome and thank you very much for imputing to Noir. I don’t know your circumstances or what your relationship with the Paki guy was, but you sound to be a very wise and smart lady to have gotten out of that relationship to save yourself a lot of time and trouble. As Noir said, all relationships are a gamble, but if you’ve been forewarned about a whole lot of them, why take that risk when you don’t have to. You said that for you now, “its better than living in suspicion of his intent.” I hear you and agree. Life is tough enough as it is, without adding an unnecessary burden to yourself. Good for you that you heed warning, even animals heed warning.

  • Noir

    March 28, 2016
    All relationships are a gamble.Real life relationships that I know of in my family trump the experiences of a complete stranger.I know people married to Pakistanis and other nationalities. No sign of divorce and 10+ years of marriage.Best with you too. I just don’t agree on this because I have seen the complete opposite in real life.
  • kim

    March 28, 2016
    This is very interesting. noir. I am a black woman who has dated a Pakistani man for almost 8mos. And this site has been very informativeinformative and scary at the same time. I agree with the overgeneralized rhetoric, but I cannot deny some of the obvious similarities in what the ladies say and connecting the dots on some of his behaviorbehavior to see his true motives and intent.
    What I’ve learnedlearned is that there are quite a growing amount of relationships with Paki men and black women. Now in my case, he is christian…or so he says. I just couldnt stop thinking about all of these stories here in my mind against what he says. So I don’t trust him as I once did. These ladies make a lot of sense and I just wanted to save myself the heart ache. Although I still have heartache because I broken it off. I just keep reliving and thinking what could have been. But its better than living in suspicion of his intent.
  • anabellah

    March 28, 2016

    If you want to put yourself out there and take a gamble, no one is stopping you. We could only warn people, if they take heed or not is on them. The best to you with it. Maybe some others will come forward and speak with you about it.

  • Noir

    March 28, 2016
    But I am genuinely happy that I have found this site. I have brought this site up to him and we talked for a long time. He almost married a foreigner but was scammed out of a lot of money. He’s decided to help me save the money to move to him because he knows I’m poor.I have Pakistan men married into my family and we’re black. I wanted to bring that up since I saw comments saying Pakistani men don’t marry or want black women.

    Sorry but I don’t believe in generalizations like you obviously do. I have Pakistani men married in to my family. They’re not all the same even though you seem to think they are. I have to be observant in any relationship because any person can cheat/scam. I read the comments but I have real life examples of successful relationships with Pakistani men.

  • anabellah

    March 28, 2016

    Noir,

    My question to you is, “Why bother with him?” You know that many of those men are scammers when it comes to foreign women. Do you think he will really show you his true colors right off the bat – that he will let you know what he’s truly after? Of course, he wouldn’t.

    Why would you want to go live in a country like Pakistan when every one with a way and some sense are trying to get up out of that place?

    Haven’t you been paying attention to what you’ve read here? Are you a virgin? Are you young as in your late teens or early twenties? Are you a blood relation of his? If not, you’re being played. He has an agenda. He wants something from you and it’s not love. If you read the thread, you will learn that those men aren’t into romantic love interests.

    Why would you want to get involved with a man whom you can’t let your guard down with and be your natural self without wondering when you’ll get hit with what you don’t want to experience – lies, deception and the like. What is driving you to this man instead of causing you to run from him? Do you really want to be extremely observant all the time in your dealings with him. What kind of life is that to be living in suspicion all the time and questioning someone’s motives. It makes no sense.

  • Noir

    March 28, 2016
    What will a Pakistani man really be getting from me if has no interest in moving to the West and wants to stay in an Islamic country? He’s even asked me to learn his language. The only warning sign is that he’s from Pakistan. For now I have decided to keep talking to him but will be extremely observant and watch out for any warning signs. I hate that it has to be that way.
  • Noir

    March 28, 2016
    I’m not putting my real name for this. I do have family that has married a Pakistani man and they’re still together and they have been together for years. I don’t see them as ever breaking up. But my real issue is I recently attracted a Pakistani man myself. My first thought was that he’s probably trying to scam me. We have talked on the phone and he has no interest in moving to the U.S. He wants me to move to his country. The more I read about marriage scams the more I’m not sure if I should continue talking to him.He’s asked to meet my family and wants me to meet his. I just can’t decide if he is telling the truth. I hate to think the worst right away. I have no problem if he did have a wife because I’m not against polygamy and I’m Muslim. I have never been married so I hope my first marriage isn’t a scam wedding.
  • Sandy

    March 22, 2016
    @Spirited

    I totally agree it has nothing with religion, unfortunately there will always be men who are just liars and when you confront them then they start to defend themselves and try and condone their behaviour which is unacceptable.

  • Gail

    March 21, 2016
    Arzoo,

    I agree it is hard on Anonymous but it is hard on any women going through a situation where they suspect they are being used by the man in their life.I felt like in Anonymous case she has gone off the deep end to go along with him divorcing his wife.She don’t really want to hear the truth as much as she wanted to vent about the wrong done to her in my opinion(She came across as bitter and angry and wanting to basically destroy him)I recognized the cold bitterness in her since I have once been there myself.She is doing more harm to her mental stability than she can even imagine.She knows she was played and now she is just trying to get even by making a worse mess.She didn’t want to listen or take advice she just wanted to vent is how I see it.
    Now mind u I don’t blame her for her feelings as they are completely normal BUT she is picking the wrong road since this road will lead to nothing but misery.She is not ready to cut her losses and walk away and if she continues down this wrong path she will end up destroyed in my opinion.
    We haven’t really talked about the deeper side of mixing up with a man that lies to women and tries to practice polygamy.It leaves so much hatred and venom inside the woman/women.
    When something like Polygamy or cheating enters a woman’s life most women can’t mentally deal with it and they turn from innocent and loving to cold and distant.It becomes a hard long road to get her PEACE back.

  • Spirited

    March 20, 2016
    Hey guys,

    @Sandy, I’m sorry to say but that is a huge falsehood that has been floating around anti-Islam sites. Ana mentioned it — Muslims DO NOT have free reign to lie, to ANYONE. It doesn’t matter if I’m speaking to a muslim or not, God doesn’t approve of liars. We are told to not even make promises we know we can’t keep! What you’ve heard and haters spout off is -again- taken out of context, misconstrued and doesn’t apply to every single situation and at anytime at all. Unlike the previous religions before Islam, Muslims don’t just say “oh that part of our book doesn’t count” because it is all very sensible when read with understanding. If you’re dealing with lying men who want to use you, then they’re just lying and it has nothing to do with the religion or God.

    @Arzoo, I see, and your interest is noted.

    @Baseema, I’ve been scratching my head about it for a bit. Do you maybe mean “Ulluu ka pattha” ? (son of an owl) I’ve never heard “uluu bata” as a phrase for anything before, and I grew up with my parents speaking urdu & punjabi all the time. Unless it’s just a saying specific to that family I guess, lol.

    Mandarin and Japanese are actually much harder languages to learn, because the alphabets are massive. It’s all interesting though :D

    @Ana, I was wondering if it might not be better to have a “part 2” of this topic and close the comments here. This page has gotten very slow to load and writing comments is also unresponsive. I think it might just be because it’s such a huge topic with so many comments!

  • baseema

    March 19, 2016
    I hear you Ana! Men.

    Arzoo, funny you should mention that. When he is on the phone with me, if someone comes in the room, I hear him say the “gori” is on the phone. Or the Amrikan. I can understand a little urdu, it’s such a hard language to learn! The words I hear the most are Acha! Ji! Uluu Bata! (good, yes, owl monkey lol) and the big one! AMI! (mommy) hehe oh and mustn’t forget the biggest of all- shadi!! (wedding lol)

    I too feel sorry for Anonymous. Hope she comes back here and posts. We all wish her the very best!

  • anabellah

    March 19, 2016

    baseema,

    Thank you much for sharing what your Pakistani male friend has shared with you about relationships. I agree with him about the differences between people in Westernized and the Eastern countries in the way they love or approach relationships. It could be why divorce is at an all time high in the United States – because in the US people approach love backwards.

    It seems some Pakistani men aren’t very different than American men. The Pakistani men whom we speak of here have there wives or go get their wives, but have mistresses on the side. It’s one example of how they are Muslim in name only. There is no difference between the Americans and the Pakistani males whom we speak of.

  • Arzoo

    March 18, 2016
    Baseema, You are right. Specifically being friends with white Americans is something Pakistani people feel proud of! Whenever a Pakistani man is coming to western world all he dreams of is $$$ and western women. Even the married men who travel abroad are openly teased that oh you are off to have some fun with white women. Having a gori (white woman) on the side is something to brag about. Its acceptable back home and people think if a single man is in western country how can he resist all these women who are willing to sleep with you. They don’t have that option back home. Once they come here their goal is to find a woman to sleep with. While doing that they might fall in love but love alone is never enough for them. I have seen western women learn cooking, their language and try so hard but they are never accepted as wife material because they are too independent thinking and wont be your cook, maid and most importantly not answer back> Women in Pakistan know once they are married the golden rule is to not answer back to the man and his family. Doesn’t matter how wrong they are.
  • Arzoo

    March 18, 2016
    Ana and Gail are absolutely right. At the same time i am thinking how hard it is for Anonymous
    She thinks of relationships from American point of view and suddenly learning about all this must be overwhelming on top of the pain she experienced after finding out about the marriage on social media. Anonymous, i feel so upset just reading it here. Don’t mind what Gail said and nobody here thinks of you that way. What she meant is that this is how Pakistani people see someone like you. If you knew even very basics of Pakistani culture you will know that there is no concept of living together before marriage. People do stay engaged for long time, sometimes their match is fixed even in childhood but they do not live together or have any physical relations before marriage. Take your time to process all this and take good care of yourself. Its hard to discuss these things with family or friends in real life because they may have already warned you against the relationship. Just take one day at a time. Don’t blame yourself. It happens to many its just that you grew up with a different set of values and culture than this man and he took advantage of that.
  • baseema

    March 18, 2016
    Even if he wasn’t using her for money or citizenship, there is still a prestige about being with an American. Because the people back in Pakistan think all Americans are rich! If they only knew! LOL
  • baseema

    March 18, 2016
    Anonymous, let me tell you about my friend. He had wanted to marry me about five years ago. He was the sweetest and kindest person. Fast forward to recent times, I have let him know in no uncertain terms that will never happen. So we are friends and he freely tells me everything and anything.

    He plans to get married to someone of his relatives choosing. They just recently asked him about a girl. He knows absolutely nothing about her and he is going to agree if he doesn’t go to the UK. At least that is what he tells me. haha!

    I asked him why would you marry someone who you don’t even know her NAME??!! He said it is because we believe that it should be the opposite of the American way. You marry and grow together and learn about each other. You start off wary of each other and polite and your love grows over time. He said the western way of dating does the opposite, you start off being “in love” and then you marry and get to really know each other and it all goes downhill. He said it’s never better than it was dating. But the Pakistani marriages go from forced to loving and he knows very few people who ever divorce.

    This is his theory. Personally, I could not sleep with some man I never met and didn’t know really well. Gives me the creeps!!

    Also, the way he talks about his future Paki wife is with great respect. Unlike the way he talks about American women. Anonymous, I don’t believe a Paki would ever live with a Pakistani women and have sex before marriage. They consider those who do as hookers. He lives in the capital city and says that there are women that walk around in Western clothes but the ones who get the most respect are the ones who cover and wear the Burka. Men feel free to press up against women who dress in western ways, they consider them “easy” women.

    These men don’t think of western or westernized women in the same way as they do the one they will marry. They also don’t let their friends near their sisters or mothers or wives. When his friends come to the house, they go straight to his bedroom. They eat in there, and not with the rest of the family, because there are adult girls there. They don’t even see each other. Straight from the door to the bedroom, and back outside. He serves his friends food himself. He goes to the kitchen, brings the food back and they eat. Big rule: No unnecessary contact between unrelated males and females. Such a strange life! I would never want to go there.

    This is their thinking. You might think he is westernized but this is the reality. He is a hero to his family because he is seen as the savior of the family to get them out of Pakistan. He can’t do anything wrong and he is treated like a King when he returns. I’m sure his family got a lot of new furniture and all kinds of things from the wife’s family! Along with a cook, dishwasher, and maid! (the wife) That’s the way it is there, even between cousins. No way will he divorce because that would be disgracing his family. Her family and his are the same. There is no divorce. He is straight lying to you.

  • anabellah

    March 18, 2016

    Hi Sandy, Welcome!

    I’m so sorry to hear about the ordeal you’ve been dealing with. He’s persistent to say the least. I’m so happy to hear that you saw through what he was doing and left the relationship before getting drawn in deeper. I think you are right that they prey on vulnerable women. I think you are correct as well that they think nothing is wrong with what they do as long as the person is a non-believer or a non-Muslim. What they do is not correct. Allah in the Holy Quran tells us to be just and kind to all of Mankind. It doesn’t matter who the person is. The only exception is when we are at war with someone or the other person is the aggressor. I simply believe those men are “Muslim” in name only. Nothing about them indicates that they are Muslim. They are all about culture. They have no Islam.

    Thank you much for coming forward and sharing your experience with all hear. It’s hopeful that by you doing so, and by us keeping this forum going, we will alert others to beware of their plots, plans and snares. I hope anonymous will listen to us. If not, it’s her fate to get taken. We can’t avoid our fate.

  • Sandy

    March 18, 2016
    Hi ladies

    I have been reading this blog for some time and agree with all the advice given, myself a widow, was invovled with a pakistani man just after my husband died and after 5 years realised that he was a big cheat and liar. I ended the relationship last year , but he still continues to contact me even though I told him there is no future in this relationship, he made me out to be mental which I know I am not. i am still struggling to get rid of him I have blocked him but he manages to continue sending messages either with his friends and family . He went to the extent to call me from Pakistan while he was with his wife!! and he told her she must speak to me, these paki men level of lying is pathological, they do it without even acknowledging how wrong it is. Another thing I found out was that these men target vulnerable (single parent families, widow’s, girls from problem background) non muslim women becuase according to them Allah accept that they can lie to infidels and non-believers. The only thing a woman involved with a paki man can get is emotional depression for the rest of her life. My advise to anonymous is to think carefully about her future with men like these.

  • Gail

    March 18, 2016
    Anonymous,

    I am going to be blunt here and tell u straight u are acting like a idiot to be frank.His wife could give a Rats A$$ about u because she sees u as a whore to be blunt and to be even be more frank u are acting like u have no logic to figure out what is going on right under your own nose.
    Look u have been played and are still letting him play u.
    You have said the man has no job and u were with him 5 yrs and he married his cousin over you(what does this say about u that u are so willing to settle for so little)?
    Look straight up his wife is his parents pick and u better understand this.Even if he wanted to divorce his wife he can’t Don’t u get it? It would be a family feud and there is a very good chance he would be killed if he tried something like that.It’s obvious u don’t understand Pakistani culture at all.
    U will never be able to control this situation so stop trying before u loose your mind and end up mentally screwed up.
    Also understand the best u could hope for in this case is polygamy but his wife and her family will never go for it long term as Pakistani people as a whole are against Polygamy esp when a foreign women is involved.
    One last thing do u really want a man that screwed u over after being with him 5 yrs? U better stop and think before u end up pregnant from this devil.
    I know my post sounds hard and critical but I have been in your shoes except i found out after several yrs of being married mine had his cousin on the side in Pakistan.
    It’s your life u do what u want but I am telling u straight u are going down the road here and barking up the wrong tree.You playing a game u are never going to win mark my words.

  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    Anonymous,

    You were given a lot of excellent advice here. You must have read that most Pakistani men marry virgins, young women, women without children and not divorcees. You’ve got a lot of strikes against you. I agree with baseema and Azoo that he is probably using you, for what? Only he, she and his family knows (beside Allah).

    I agree that his wife doesn’t care about you because she’s in on the “get over”. She’s in cahoots with him to scam you. Those men don’t marry for love. Love doesn’t mean to them what it means to Americans or westerners. They are about their blood family, money and their culture. You say you love him. What’s love got to do with it? Most of the women who are getting conned love those men with all their hearts and souls. It’s a one way street for the women who are not Pakistani.The men don’t love back the same way that the women love.

    Think about what both baseema and Azoo said. He was forced to marry his cousin? What makes you think that if FORCE was involve, he won’t be forced to stay married to that cousin? If the family is that influential in dictating what he does, he has no mind of his own. They control him.

    He’s just stringing you along. He could get a legal divorce, it doesn’t take away that he could still stay married to her Islamically without a registered marriage. I understand corruption is rampant is Pakistan, just as baseema said.

    You’re fighting a losing battle. Cut your loses and leave that man behind. Don’t waste anymore time with him. Use your mind, not your heart.

  • Arzoo

    March 17, 2016
    Anonymous, if he is a permanent resident and in much better financial situation why are you paying for his divorce. If he is a good man he can rent his property, sell his nice car and live modestly and pay to fix the mess he created. Its interesting that he was hiding his marriage from you and once you found out he is willing to divorce. What if you havent found out about his marriage through Facebook. Even if he is truly trying to get divorced what kind of a man he is to so easily ruin his cousin’s life. A divorced woman has a difficult life in Pakistan. Also how is he planning to face his family’s wrath when he wasn’t even able to say no to marriage. Is he planning to not go back to Pakistan ever because if does he can be forced again. Right? Things just don’t add up. So be careful, protect yourself and your assets. I don’t don’t know how true his claims of being financially better than you are.
    Anyway, I am glad that you are trusting him for now but at the same time you are also prepared to leave if you see him prolonging the process. I wish you very best for whatever your future has in store for you.
  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    I see my blunder below. SMH I mean to say, I don’t have time to learn Spanish, not that I don’t have time to speak it. I think I got it right this time. Sigh

  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    Someone could post in another language, “This blog is Satanic, get up out of here.” How would I know, if it’s in another language LOL

  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    baseema,

    Mentioning the language site is okay. I only ask everyone not to post links to other blogs, forums or sites where people can go to comment. I don’t like advertising for other sites and sending our traffic there. People could find other places on their own. I think I’m going to go the the language site that you mentioned. Thank you, Sis. Links to news articles and such are okay.

    I ask that no one posts anything in a language other than English here as well. My Polygamy411 twitter account that that had a lot of “friends” on years ago got shut down cuz people were posting all kinds of tweets in another language. I need to know what’s being said. Next thing you’d know I’m under investigation cuz someone posted in another language here, calling people to join a terrorist group. Allah says don’t trust anyone but Him.

  • Anonymous

    March 17, 2016
    Yes it’s a big mess and I know that no matter how hard it is I will let him go if I don’t see him doing anything but prolonging the process I won’t wait for her to get here I will leave him before that happens. And no I don’t give him any money I am paying the attorney directly.
  • Anonymous

    March 17, 2016
    The attorney said that it’s pretty simple he doesn’t have to go to Pakistan to get divorced because they don’t have kids or assets together so it would just be either her signing a consent for petition of divorce or her getting served the divorce documents the attorney said he could be divorced in 31 days. He is a permanent resident and he already took his citizenship exam and passed. I have nothing to offer him if anything he is in a much better financial situation then me. He owns his own home he drives a nice car has a college degree he just lost his job because of his extended stay in Pakistan. But he works is i.t I have 2 kids and he still introduced me to his family and friends. I just wasn’t ready for marriage when he asked me. I appreciate all the help and all the feedback and I know that what he did is a betrayal and I’m aware that I should not forgive him but I wasn’t perfect either and he stood by my side. I might be blinded by him telling me that he will leave her but it’s the only way I know to be because I do honestly and truly love him. If he does divorce her that would be the biggest act of love for me. But tomorrow is our appointment with the attorney so I’m hoping everything goes well.
  • baseema

    March 17, 2016
    Also, if you are giving him money for a divorce, I can almost guarantee he is sending his wife that money! He can produce a divorce certificate that will be fake. My friend in Pakistan says anything can be faked and anyone can be bribed with enough money. If you paid someone in Pakistan to spy on him, the spy would go to your guy and get him to pay or his family to pay to return a good clean report to you. You can’t trust anyone there. And this is coming from a Pakistani male, born in Pakistan and still living there. I wish he would come on the blog!
  • baseema

    March 17, 2016
    Arzoo, oh I missed that, she is supporting him. Oh anonymous, please stop supporting this man. Where did he get the money from to go to Pakistan and get married? I hope not from you. He may indeed care about you, but also you are his meal ticket. And now he is a married man. His wife doesn’t care because she knows he needs you to get by at the moment. Once she gets here, I am sure it will be a different story. I hope you have the strength to walk away. What a mess.
  • Arzoo

    March 17, 2016
    Anonymous, It is first time i am hearing that a US attorney was hired for divorce when marriage took place in Pakistan. How can a US trained attorney know about Pakistani marriage/divorce laws and procedures. It doesn’t make sense and sounds very suspicious. He was foxed to marry but he isn’t forced to stay married? how is that possible. Very interesting that you have talked to her. So she knows about you and isn’t mad or telling him to get rid of you! I think he and his cousin wife are conspiring maybe to take advantage of you financially or use you for immigration. Is he a US permanent resident. If not what visa he is on. What are the papers that you mentioned are under process. Are those his wife’s papers to come to US as his spouse? Are you a citizen or green card holder. Is this his first marriage. It is very unusual for an unmarried Pakistani man to propose a woman who was married to someone unless he has a motive to use you financially or for immigration to US.
  • Anonymous

    March 17, 2016
    No It’s not a Pakistani attorney. And has no relation with him.
  • Arzoo

    March 17, 2016
    I understand. Looks like Anonymous is still not ready to accept the truth and will continue to let this man use her. Very good points Baseema.
    Anonymous, by any chance is this a Pakistani origin attorney or i suspect someone he not you found out. They are on same team and scamming you. They are taking advantage of your blind love for him. I am sure they are also having good laughs in your absence. Don’t trust this man, his friends, his relatives. Trust your own independent sources.
  • Anonymous

    March 17, 2016
    Well that’s just it he did propose to me and I said no at the time because I was going thru a divorce and was not ready but we continued to be together. And she knows about me because I told her but it doesn’t seem to phase her.
  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    I mean I don’t have time to learn Spanish, not that I don’t have time to speak it LOL.

  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    Arzoo,

    It’s very nice of you to offer to translate for Anonymous. I hope you understand that I really don’t want to get involved with sending translations and emails etc back and forth. There were other commentators who offered to translate etc. quite some time ago and I had to not get involved with the emails back and forth etc. It would just be too much for me. I’ve got my hands full already. Ummof4 was kind enough to offer to do something with deciphering inheritance for another here and I had to decline sending stuff back and forth. I don’t mean to be difficult.

    It’s really cool that you speak both Punjabi and Urdu. I’d love to be able to speak another language fluently, particularly Spanish. It looks like there’s not enough time for it either SIGH

  • baseema

    March 17, 2016
    Ana is right. He is not going to divorce her for you! He might pretend to, but he won’t. You can’t trust this man. Five years and he didn’t marry YOU? WHY? Because he knew he had to marry someone in Pakistan. He’s using you. Don’t let him get away with it. Leave him. You’re with a married man now. His wife probably doesn’t even know about you. Soon she will be in this country with him, then what? I wouldn’t believe a word he says. They’re “doing things secretly” so you don’t know what is really going on. If you stay, try and learn Urdu. You can go on memorize.com and learn for free. (Ana is that link okay?) Don’t let him know though. Not sure if it will help though, because my friend uses a combination of Urdu and Punjabi. Good luck! Or you can copy and paste it and maybe Gail can tell you what they are saying. (if they type a conversation)I hope you don’t have kids with this man.
  • Anonymous

    March 17, 2016
    I know and no matter how hard I try to let it go I love him so much that I’m willing to forgive him as dad as that sounds. He got married in Pakistan and the attorney we have spoken to says it’s just serving her with the papers since he lives in the u.s he doesn’t have to go to Pakistan for the divorce.
  • Arzoo

    March 17, 2016
    This is the key information here “he is not working right now i am going to help him pay for divorce” Dear Anonymous, please do not spend anymore money on him not a single penny. Who is paying for his phone that he uses to chat with his cousin wife. Clearly he is using you. He has no intention to divorce. His wife cannot get any papers processed and cannot come to your country without his cooperation unless she is coming independently e.g. on a student visa.
    If you really want some of messages translated you can email to Ana (if she agrees to this arrangement). I will be happy to try to translate for you if its Punjabi or Urdu
  • anabellah

    March 17, 2016

    Anonymous,

    I suggest you try your best to get rid of him. You must have read a lot of this post/thread about those men. He lied to you. His family didn’t force him to get married. He knew what he was doing and I’m sure he willfully did it. If he didn’t want to be in the marriage with his cousin and he dislikes it so much, why do he and she have so much to talk about on whatsapp? They all say they got forced into marriage.

    Are you in Pakistan with him right now? If not, what lawyer are you going to go to in order to get a divorce? He’d have to go to Pakistan to get his divorce. He’s not stupid enough to think that he could get his divorce in the United States when he got married in Pakistan.

    You’ll be foolish to continue to be bothered with him. He is playing you for a fool. The mere fact that you’ve been with him for five years and he went and wed his cousin whether forced or not, should be enough to slap some sense into you and let you know it’s time for you to move on without him.

  • Anonymous

    March 17, 2016
    This is so crazy I just found out my fiance got married to his cousin. I have been in a relationship with him for like 5 years and recently last year he went back to his country and got married. I found out 4 weeks ago through facebook that he got married and I confronted him. He told me his family forced him and that he loves me.So much so that his willing to get a divorce because he wants to be with me.His not working right now so I’m going to help him pay for the divorce.We are going to see a lawyer together and everything.But mind you his cousins papers are still being process.Though he tells me wants to get a divorce and be with me I question him though because we are doing things secretly since his cousins papers are being process and if she finds out about the divorce she might get the papers done quicker.I feel like he can probably call the embassy or do something about getting a divorced.They talk through whatsapp and unfortunately I don’t know the language to understand even if I could see his whatsapp.I know they still talk and I don’t know if his trying to keep his options open since his not divorce yet by still communicating with her.I’m so confused and don’t know what to do because he says he loves me and wants to get the divorce.
  • baseema

    March 14, 2016
    spirited, you might want to go check out a naturopathic doctor, it’s worth a try! :)
  • Gail

    March 14, 2016
    Spirited,

    Yeah it is true if the guy is smart he would do that but most don’t know immigration laws and go by what they think instead of what they know.They fish alot of info out of their wives but yeah for sure alot of men I am sure do simple.I have seen so many crazy things over the yrs in with Paki men nothing surprises me anymore.

  • Arzoo

    March 13, 2016
    Ana, thanks for posting my comments. More recently i think differently about your blog. I personally do not support any kind of polygamy but that doesn’t mean that i am against your right to free speech and right to live your life the way you want. Earlier i thought the existence of this blog somehow makes polygyny look like its normal. Thats why i wasn’t very supportive. I also thought that this blog was telling women to stay in abusive marriages. I think you have made it a lot more clear that you do not support abuse or patriarchal practices like men controlling how they wife dresses, where she goes, whether she works or not etc. I now see the value of your blog despite my different personal views.
    Another thing i realized is that all these women who are in polygamous marriages they are real, their problems, their hurt is real so no matter what i believe i shouldn’t be opposed to this venue where they get to vent and share their problems. That itself is a huge help.
  • Arzoo

    March 13, 2016
    Spirited, don’t worry i am not interested in just your story. I am interested in almost all stories and feel very badly when women are taken advantage of in the name of religion, culture or whatever excuses that these scumbags use. I have been wondering what happened to Ina and where is Coco and how are her plans to become 2nd wife of the Pakistani Pathan boy who kept his first wife in dark and was forced! to marry her. I am interested in Mari2’s story. Basically i am interested in a lot of stories her so don’t feel like i have any specific interest in you. I don’t know you or any of the women on this blog. I came across this blog and started reading this blog regularly and following all the stories.
  • Spirited

    March 13, 2016
    Hey again,

    @Gail, oops, I forgot to put this to you. I’ve actually spoken with someone who was thinking of doing this. Don’t know if he ever did or not because I stopped conversing with him a few years ago. Simply, the guy told me the ones who scheme for immigration aren’t that stupid. They would make sure nothing is official as far as the 2nd marriage is concerned, even in the other country (Pakistan in this example). So it would be a simple nikah, just call over an imam or any religious elder, get your witnesses, sign a wedding agreement and hold onto it without filing it at the government level until after citizenship and divorce are final from the first wife. Once they’re all clear, do a new/update marriage with the 2nd wife to file with the government so all dates will show a sequence of: marriage to 1st, divorce from 1st, then marriage to 2nd. Even if they had been religiously married already, it wouldn’t have come up in any database because it wouldn’t have been registered anywhere. And like I mentioned before, a guy who becomes a US citizen is a great catch, so I’m sure some women wouldn’t mind any inconveniences they’d have to put up with.

    I remember that at the time, I thought this guy was joking around because he was known for being a comedian in that family. I thought that no one would ever really do such a thing. Now though, I bet it happens plenty of times. After all, I imagine it would be hard to prove unless the husband or wife admitted it. . You never can know out there. Pretty spooky!

  • Spirited

    March 13, 2016
    Salaam guys,

    @Ana lol I was thinking something was screwy with the “ghost post” it’s funny to image! Yep, thanks for explaining that children and private contracts don’t mean anything as far as law is concerned. A child is only “proof” of adultery, which is not considered anything major since practically everyone does it around here & it’s obviously not an offense that gets a person jailed, lol.

    Anyways I’ve already done what I can. I’m not interested in continuing to follow what he’s doing for however many years this case takes. The immigration courts are severely backed up with an ungodly amount of cases (as I was told). I’ve already let the chips fall where they will and have put it behind me to move on. This is becoming depressing though.

    @Arzoo, still not sure why you’re so interested so I’m glad I leave things very vague online. Of course he can get deported, it’s a deportation trial. The outcome depends on the government prosecutors, judge and how good his defense lawyers are. With any open case, a person shouldn’t leave the country or will face consequences….that’s kind of obvious. Courts can give special permission for requests or emergencies though. He makes enough money and I’m sure his adulteress helps him out but it’s really not my problem, nor do I care. I’m done with him and I have enough problems to deal with that I don’t need to think about him and give myself more stress.

    @Gail, yeah, even when you tell them it’s borderline it’s a problem for them. Previous tests never caught increased levels of male hormones and I had regular cycles so it wasn’t ever picked up that way either. It’s only been in the last few years that side-effects began to show up and my fertility specialist thinks stress from the marriage made it worse & they were able to pick up the hormones and saw the cysts. It sucks that PCOS is still not well-understood, they aren’t even sure why it happens. My gynecologist said the medical community thinks it is genetic. We got my mom and sister checked, they don’t have it. My grandmothers have passed on but I can be reasonably sure they didn’t have it — one had 8 children, the other had 6. None of my female cousins seem to have it either. The gynecologist then admitted that the medical community isn’t sure about what causes it, so they’re just spitballing, lol. .

    It sure is depressing though. Very depressing. The kind of depressing where you wonder what huge sin you must have done to deserve such a cruel disorder. (I know, I know, people feel like that with any incurable disease though). Even the guys I’ve spoken with who already have kids aren’t willing to give it a chance. It’s like you’re on sale and they pass you by if there’s any imperfection. I feel like I wouldn’t even make a sale if I was in the bargain bin, lol. I tell myself “don’t worry, I just haven’t found the right person yet” but the consistent rejections because of PCOS is honestly destroying my self-esteem and hopes.

    Well, I’ll see you guys another time. Keep me in your prayers if you would. It means a lot.

  • Gail

    March 13, 2016
    Spirited,

    Good for u that u are trying to get him deported.Your so right about Pakistani men the majority want kids so it is hard to find a husband when u have PCOS.I know my inlaws kept pressuring me and hubby to have more children after I had my son and we finally had to explain to them I have PCOS that makes it hard to become pregnant.
    Gosh I can only imagine how hard it is to be fishing for decent husband in a ocean full of sharks! lol

  • anabellah

    March 13, 2016

    Arzoo,

    You’re Rocking and rolling. Good post.

    I don’t think the child is proof of Bigamy. It’s only proof of adultery. Bigamy needs more than one official marriage license/certificate. He probably marriage the other with just a private contract between he and the other, scheming to marry legally once his divorce from Spirited’s was finalized. Their private contract is pretty much meaningless other than in maybe in the eyes of Allah. No one cares about adultery. The only time adultery is addressed is and beneficial is in a divorce.

    Although, if Immigration is eyeballing him, they may consider that he help conceive a couple children while married to Spirited’s and he divorced spirited soon after he got citizenship. I think spirited should follow through on trying to get him deported and let the chips fall where they may.

    Nice though provoking post that you wrote.

  • Arzoo

    March 13, 2016
    Spirited, glad to know that you took all these actions and thanks for sharing. Does it mean he can still get deported. Can he visit Pakistan at the moment without the risk that he will be denied reentry. His child is a proof of bigamy. What are the courts doing with that information. Where is he getting all the money to pay lawyers, support his family and support you
  • Gail

    March 12, 2016
    Spirited,

    When a USA citizen goes to fill out immigration forms they have to list all marriages and divorces.If say in this case the man files for immigration for his Pakistani Wife but is married legally to an American woman then he can’t immigrate his Pakistani wife because his marriage to the Pakistani wife happened after his marriage to the American wife.All dates have to be listed on the immigration forms.There is no wiggle room when it comes to filling out the forms and the marriage and divorce dates.I don’t think people realize this because I know I didn’t until my older brother inlaw had a problem with his marriage and divorce dates and got denied.Immigration looks closely at the dates.Most people esp Pakistani men think that hey my second marriage happened before I divorced my first wife etc….

  • anabellah

    March 12, 2016

    LOL, Spirited, I wondered what had happened to my comment, too. LOL. Anyhow, I rewrote it. This blogs goes kookoo at times with comments getting approved and un-approving themselves. If I believed in ghosts, I’d think one of them was doing it. :-)

  • anabellah

    March 12, 2016

    Mama T, hello and welcome

    Thank you much for sharing about your friend’s daughter. It’s very sad what has happened to her. It’s sad that it is happening to many. We’re trying to get the word out there to people, but by time they read this thread, it’s usually too late. You are helping a great deal by letting others know what you know about it. The more people who are aware of the topic, the better. They can inform others.

    I think it would be ideal, if a group of women got together to advocate for women’s right to be fee from victimization by foreigners. They would come together to advocate change to the immigration policies. Now is an ideal time to do it when in the United States, as Immigration reform is high on the agenda with the new President soon to be elected. I wouldn’t be able to do it, as my plate is full right now. It’s best that those do it whom it hits home for. Those who have been victims of having been used for citzenship/Green Card, etc.

  • Spirited

    March 12, 2016
    Salaam everyone,

    @Ana, the list of recent comments shows that you’ve commented here, but I don’t see it. Pardon me if I mention something you mentioned or I don’t respond to something you might have written because I don’t see your comment.

    @Arzoo, thank you for your concern and comments, I hope I don’t come across as harsh myself — sometimes the way I write makes me seem I’m angry.

    A few points to note is that regarding Aranya, she stated that her husband had threatened her with divorce soon after he got citizenship. That seems pretty obvious and maybe a step above “suspicion” (in my opinion), though we don’t even know what else has been going on. Obviously I have one experience so I’m trying to advise based on that experience. None of us here are experts, but I don’t see how that makes me, or anyone, not have validation to give this advice.

    I didn’t write about every single event that happened with me on here. How would you know what I had been doing while I was not writing? How would you know what actions I did take or which ones I didn’t? How would you know what the legal situations and complications there were in my particular case? The lawyers I have are the only ones who have those details, not anyone here. My ex-husband never threatened me with divorce. The education/job he has are such that even in regular marriages, the spouses often may not see each other for days at a time, so that didn’t give off a huge red warning. I have PCOS which makes having children difficult in the first place and requires planning and scheduling which was also hard because of his education/job (even if he wasn’t trying to avoid it), so I didn’t consider that as a blaring warning sign either. People cheat and make mistakes, so I felt it was worth it to give him a 2nd chance. Things didn’t turn around so I ended it. Overall, “red flags” probably weren’t as plain as how Aranya’s husband said to her — here, it’s coming straight from the horse’s mouth, along with his poor attitude towards her. Plus since she has a child with him, her situation might be more concerning. Yet, since you’re so very concerned about what I did and didn’t do, here is a short list, though not a complete one

    — Contacted ICE (twice)
    — contacted USCIS offices
    — lawyers
    — wrote to judge overseeing ex-husband’s current deportation case

    At this point, I don’t know and I don’t care if he actually gets deported or manages to stay because of lawyer tricks (like indefinitely-postponing the trial) or Obama’s illegals-loving programs — one thing is that he will not be able to become a citizen through either of those routes, so there is that. I’m getting money from him until I remarry and I’m looking ahead while hoping to help other people who might be in a similar position. All-in-all, I don’t think that’s a particularly bad outcome. If that isn’t taking steps to stop him, I don’t see what else I could do…maybe falsely accuse him of being a terrorist? Hire a hitman? lol, kidding of course! I would never do such things.

    I had a laugh at when you talked about finding a good guy who would understand, lol. Do you know how most Muslim men look at you when you have a reproductive disorder? Especially older men (those who are my age and a bit older, which is the range I’m looking in), a woman with PCOS barely gets a second glance even if medication or IVF is available as options. I can literally see the disgust on their faces when I get around to telling them about it (and I won’t hide it but I usually wait one or two meetings to get to know them a bit more).

    Guys, that reminds me, so the most recent guy I was telling you about is a bust. He said he really wants to have children right away and hearing about PCOS was an instant goodbye. Oh well, Insha’Allah, I’ll find someone decent while I can still have children. And so back to square zero

    @Mama T, thank you for sharing that story. I think it’s very helpful for people to read events that happened to others. Maybe a person isn’t meant to take action until a specific time, but at least these incidents help a person to be mentally prepared (I think).

    Alrighty, time for prayer. Talk to guys later. Thank you all for keeping this very informative post/thread going.

  • anabellah

    March 12, 2016

    Arzoo,

    Thank you for your comment to Spirited. I appreciate that you spoke up. What you quoted has become one of my favorite

    polygamy411

  • Arzoo

    March 12, 2016
    Spirited, I am glad you are finally free. I just wanted to tell you how desperately i wanted you to see all the huge red flags in your ex and ACT on it before its too late. I remember you mentioning here that his green card/citizenship papers have been submitted but still processing. I so wanted you to see you to act fast and not let that man use you for immigration. Even his other wife wasn’t a US resident. Now all Aranya have is just suspicion and you all suggesting her that she seek legal help (which i agree she should act and not let this man so easily get away with using her for immigration). But you of all shouldn’t give her this advice.

    Hers is just suspicion but in your case your husband has gone and married another woman, had a child with her, didnt let you have a child with him, you were living with your parents not with him. I mean what more were you waiting to happen to take action. You are an educated woman in med school and i so wished you to report authorities and stop the paperwork where it was. get your degree and look for a good guy who will understand your past hurt and be willing to sign a pre-nup. Stopping that paperwork was first and foremost thing needed at that time but you didnt do it. Now when advising to others you should at least empathize first that you understand its hard to take action because you yourself waited too long and then give your advice.

    I know my message will sound harsh but its important that we discuss it so that others understand the need to take timely actions. Basically when someone’s actions/words tell you who they are, believe them the and protect yourself.

  • Mama T

    March 12, 2016
    Just want to share an experience for a similar incident that happened here in Canada to my friends 19 yr old daughter.
    Immediately after obtaining citizenship hubby starts to threaten the wife with divorce. She can’t cook, she’s fat, messy housekeeper, ugly etc etc. He even starting hitting her in front of their 15 month old daughter. Verbally and mentally abusive. Then he decides he’s going back on for an un extended period of time (alone) to visit family, sort things out and simply reconnect with his old life because he misses home so much.
    While he is gone she consults lawyer, starts separation process and alerts immigration about possibly being victim to a citizenship scam.
    While he is out of the country he is unaware this is going on…….continues to verbally abuse his wife and child over Skype and other social media channels. When he finally returns to Canada (unexpectedly) he empties out the bank acct, beats wife up again, verbally trashes her and does other filthy things to her. She notified I migrations and lawyer that he was back, and was immediately served with papers as well as deportation papers. You can all guess what happened next……he moved out but while he was waiting for his deportation date, he turned into Prince Charming again. Wife fell for it again and took him back against everyone’s wishes and advice. He was a great to both the wife and the daughter, even suggesting they have another baby etc. As soon as the he received permanent residency status (which takes a little over 1 yr) his true colours came back out.
    When she contacted immigration again, they told her it was too late for them to do anything about because too much time had now passed. The window of opportunity had been lost.
    Long story short……they are no longer together, but he has his residency now and is using it to his advantage to bring his family into the country one by one. Isn’t supporting her in any way shape or form so she is currently fighting him in court for financial support.
    My 47 yr old friend is faced to have to look after her daughter and grand daughter emotionally and financially due to the abuse, theft, mind games he put them all through!!
    Please please please take this time while he is away to talk to a lawyer, talk to I migrations and anyone else you need to talk to do the right thing.
    Fund out what your rights are and how long the window is for you to take the appropriate actions to ship his ass back.
    We only wish My friends daughter had listened to us and done the same!! These men have to be stopped!!
    They are all just sitting back and laughing at all us women.
  • Spirited

    March 11, 2016
    Gail, it wouldn’t matter, in Aranya’s situation, it’s not as if her husband can’t just initiate the divorce himself — he can do that, no problem. She said he already got his citizenship. He doesn’t need her for anything anymore (assuming he WAS indeed only using her to this goal).

    At this point, either
    she gets a truth out of him (doubtful)
    She gets divorce papers filed against her
    She files for divorce herself
    Maybe deal with polygamy (doesn’t seem like her husband is the type to care).

    He could always legally divorce her, keep the marriage islamically, legally marry another woman and have her immigrate.
    There’s plenty he can do, he is a citizen now. I’m sure he will have gotten legal counsel himself. When it comes to what they want, these schemers leave no stone unturned. He could also just marry someone already in the US, like the a-hole I was married to did. No immigration issues that way.

  • Gail

    March 11, 2016
    I am not sure if any of u ladies that have helped your husband to immigrate to USA know this but if u are his legal wife and he goes to his home country and marries another women and he is still legally married to u then it is bigamy according to USA law.Now when he goes to try to file immigration papers to bring his second wife to USA he has to put down all his marriages and divorces and this is where these men are stupid the majority of the time because they don’t understand USA law and if they put down a second marriage before they were divorced from the first wife then their application gets denied.In USA there is no such thing as Polygamy being legal and a man is only allowed one legal wife.I hope this info helps and explains better what I was talking about.
  • anabellah

    March 11, 2016

    In the United States, many attorneys give a free consultation.

  • baseema

    March 11, 2016
    oh Gail has a good point about not divorcing him quite yet! i hope you are legally married to this user! then get proof of his marriage and hopefully immigration will send him back to his country!! it wouldn’t hurt to talk to a divorce lawyer though, while he is gone away, just for advice, and maybe an immigration attorney too! protect yourself and your child, because he sure won’t!!
  • anabellah

    March 11, 2016

    Aranya,

    I agree with Gail 100%. I suggest you go sit down with a good divorce attorney and find out what your options are. Let the attorney know straight up that it appears your husband has used you for immigration, intends to divorce you and may possibly wed a woman in Pakistan. You’d probably have to school him or her on what the culture is in Pakistan based on what you’ve learned. Contact immigration and naturalization to find out what, if anything can be done on that end as well.

    I know you love your husband, but he clearly isn’t feeling you right about now. It’s all about his selfish desires and his family. He doesn’t see you as family. Family to him is his Pakistani people who share his blood and way of life. Don’t think you can change him. You can’t. Gail will tell you that they don’t marry for love. Their marriages are arrange. They’ll pretend to love a foreign woman, do and tell her anything she want to hear to get citizenship. It’s been said the men are pimped out by their parent and their entire family. They’re in cahoots with one another.

    Please don’t feel foolish about what has happened to you. It has happened and is happening to many. Just be glad you got the wake up call sooner than later. We’re here for you, if you want to talk more.

  • Gail

    March 11, 2016
    Aranya,

    I felt so sad to read your post as I know how it feels to be used for immigration by the man u love.It is sickening and disgusting how these men treat their wives and children.
    I wish I could give u hope that he is really just going for a visit but the truth is he obviously has intentions of doing something because he has not invited u and his child to go along.I will say this my husband never stopped me once from going to Pakistan with him on any visit and encouraged me to always go so your husband is 100% up to no good and my guess is he is going to be married to the women his parents have picked for him and he will keep either keep her in Pakistan or he will flat out divorce u.Now in saying all this I am assuming u are his legal wife? If so then don’t u dare divorce him right now and I will tell u why.Let him go marry in Pakistan as long as u r legally married because then u will cut his way for him to immigrate his Pakistani wife understand? Because he will have done bigamy and by USA law as long as his marriage to his Pakistani wife is after your legal marriage in USA(assuming u live in USA) then he will never be able to have her immigrate BUT u don’t say a word to him about this or he will flat out divorce u first then marry her so be smart and think of u and your child.Never think he got the upper hand by using u for immigration u have the upper hand to make his life miserable by not allowing his Pakistani wife to immigrate to USA if u play your cards right.Hope this helps stay strong and fix your life now and don’t let this idiot dictate to u anymore.If u need more advice don’t hesitate to ask.

  • Gail

    March 11, 2016
    Shani,

    I will tell u exactly what the now late Mrs.Nancy Reagan used to say about drugs”Just Say No”!!! Your playing with fire and I think your life is worth more than some guy treating u like crap and tossing u aside in the future to marry a cousin back in Pakistan.
    Polygamy can be beautiful but when u have a culture that is so against it and the men will not stand up and do right in Polygamy marriages then what can u do as a wife? U have to think not only about u but your future children.Do u really want to bring kids into such a mess.If u like Polygamy and want to practice it then search out a good decent man/Preferably over 30 and mature and a cowife that understands and accepts polygamy as well.Just research and think clear what u want for your life and then walk on that track.

  • Spirited

    March 11, 2016
    Salaam to all,

    @Aranya, that really is so horrible. You’re very wise to not trust anything he is saying. In your situation, he’s already made it pretty plain that he was only with you for the immigration, hence the divorce threats soon after citizenship. And you can’t go with him on his “visit”? Lol how obvious can he get? Either he’s going to go see a sweetheart, or he’s already been married, or going to get married to someone he really wanted to be with. If he tries the “my family is forcing me” line, don’t buy it for even a second. The paki men who get out of Pakistan (and especially get into the US) are often treated like kings — no one can make them do anything they don’t want to do. If you were to see them back in Pakistan, they are lavished with food, attention, praises, and people literally act like their slaves — even their own family or parents! I’ve seen some cases and heard plenty where “oh he’s an American citizen” is the driving factor behind people considering their daughter’s marriage to a guy there. It can be pretty darn incredulous and unbelievable.

    If you had the finances and opportunity, I would say that you should go to Pakistan as well and have yourself a visit with your in-laws without his knowledge, it would be pretty funny to crash his “alone time”, BUT it would be dangerous for a lone woman with a child so I wouldn’t risk it.

    As Ana & Baseema suggested, please do go ahead with a court divorce. He can’t just use and dump you and his child for his American benefits and good life now that he got what he was after. You should be able to get custody easily with him having to pay alimony & child support (these would be your right as a mother and wife, REGARDLESS of religion). I was recently in an 8 year farce of a marriage to a paki man who used me for immigration as well, although he made sure one way or another that I wouldn’t have children (on top of borderline PCOS I found out about just a year or two ago). Some of my family say that lack of children was a blessing, others think I might have “trapped” him if I had children — but as I’ve seen, even children don’t matter in the face of selfishness and the mighty US $$$$$ with the men who are only interested in themselves (paki or otherwise). I feel you would be saving yourself a lot of hardship by getting out now. I don’t know how it is to be a single mother to a young child, but God is always there, so you shouldn’t be scared of the challenge and trust in Him and yourself. We women are much stronger than we think!

  • anabellah

    March 10, 2016

    Aranya, what you shared is sooooo sad. It almost brought me to tears. I know how devastated you must feel. I feel so badly for you. baseema gave you the absolute best advice. I can’t add anymore to it than what she said. It’s terrible what those men are doing. I just can’t imagine it happening to me. If you are a legal wife, take him to the cleaners (to court); get support for you and your child. Don’t let him off the hook. He should provide for you on a reasonable scale. Don’t plea with that man to stay or change how he feels. He is doing you a huge favor, you just can’t see it now. It should be a wake up call for all the women out there dating a foreign man. Don’t for a minute think that you are a bad housekeeper, messy or anything of the sort. It had an exit plan made before he began to see messy in you. Mighty funny how he (pretended) loved messy before he got citizenship.

  • baseema

    March 10, 2016
    Aranya, sorry to hear that. No sense in trying to stop him because he is going to do what he is going to do anyway. I’d bet he is definitely going back to get married. Terrible he is talking about divorce after getting citizenship. So disgusting. It might be hard now, but the best thing is to let him go and concentrate on yourself and your child. You don’t need this. Let him go and let him see you enjoying yourself. Life is too short. Don’t count on this man for anything. I hope you take him to court and get custody of your child. Make him pay, don’t let him walk away empty handed. Btw, how does he make a living if he can afford to just leave for such an extended period of time? Don’t support this man, don’t give him anything. He has shown you his intentions. Believe him.
  • Aranya

    March 10, 2016
    My question is how can you find out if a man is going back home to marry? My husband just got citizenship and is running around like a mad man trying to go back home as soon as possible. He is not planning to take me and my child with him. Does this raise any red flags? He says he wants to go see his mom and relax alone in peace. He claims he can not afford to take me with him. He says in December he will take me when his sister marries. I do not believe anything he is saying. He recently stated that I am a messy housekeeper and he wants to divorce me. He is looking for reasons to leave me weeks after he has his US Passport and citizenship in his hand. Any advice?
  • anabellah

    March 9, 2016

    Spirited,

    A prenup may be the way to go, especially as you’re an up and coming big time professional who, Insha Allah, will have ooo goo gobs of big money. If he were seeing any dollar signs Sack of Money you could nip that one in the bud.

  • anabellah

    March 9, 2016

    @Shanni,

    I’m with Spirited about what she said to you. I’d advise you to just dump that guy. He’s not worth your time and trouble. The red flags are there and for a reason. It makes no sense to ignore them.

    Things only become more difficult when married. If he’s a jerk now, he will certainly be a bigger one later, if you were to get into a committed relationship with him. Furthermore, you said he has many female friends. How do you know he is not telling them the same thing that he is tell you?

  • Spirited

    March 9, 2016
    Salaam, heya

    @Gail & Ana, oh you bet. I don’t have any attachment to this or any guy I’ve met, so I don’t need to jump into anything. The one guy with prolonged divorce proceedings, my parents and uncles are looking into it, so I’ll let you guys know what comes of that. In the meanwhile, there are more people to meet. I definitely want everything to be on th up and up, no sneaking around or settling. I’m considering a prenup too, or at least an informal one. Let’s see I guess.

    @Shanni, I would advise you not to bother. You mentioned that he said you “ask too many questions” and he doesn’t really listen to you. Shouldn’t those be warning signs? That guy sounds like he’s not going to respect you and will belittle you during the relationship. He’s in the UK, but if you’re in the USA, that’s STILL a better prospect for most of them, so you might still be being seen as a visa ticket. I would highly recommend saying bye to this guy on th basis of his poor treatment of you alone, let alone being a paki Muslim who has who-knows-what deceptions planned. Handle with care and proceed with extreme caution if you choose to continue down this path.

  • Shanni

    March 9, 2016
    Hey guys just viewing ur comments and i am need of some advise i recenty met someone from pakistan he is a muslim Pakistani living in the uk he wants to invite me to the uk i really dont knowif i should go because i really dont understand him he has plenty female friends and he says i ask too much questions n is like he really doesnt listens to me only talks at me and he is talking about marrying me and take me over to the uk
  • anabellah

    March 9, 2016

    Spirited,

    To add to what Gail said about safeguarding your future, you’d really need to do it, if you marry the man who is already married, Islamically divorced, but not legally. There are some clever women who never get a legal divorce although they may be separated from the husband. The husband buys a house for his mistress/girlfriend. He dies and the legal wife comes and takes the mistresses/girlfriend’s home and just about everything she’s got. As long as the other wife was legally married to the man, all their property, monies etc were marital property. Take a lesson out of the story of “Edith” who was here on this blog. You know what she did with regard to her co and the co’s children. She kept mostly all the monies etc for she and her kids. She stole the co children’s inheritance, as she went with civil law and disregarded what Allah says in the Holy Quran about inheritance. Be smart, when it comes to one wife having a legal marriage and the other one doesn’t. You could end up losing a lot.

  • Gail

    March 9, 2016
    Spirited,

    Between u and me knowing Pakistani culture the way we do I don’t think it is a good idea to try Polygamy again knowing that Pak Culture the women in particular are so against Polygamy.U know how people there are so wrapped up on property rights which is a huge problem should the husband die.In my case my excowife is so greedy over stupid property that she would do anything even murder to have got rid of me.
    I just don’t really see Pakistan women dealing polygamy in a G.Dly context.I am sure there are some but I think they are very far and few between.Please be very careful.I love the idea of polygamy so much but dang in paki culture I have yet to see it really work since everyone is so focused on property and money.
    I have seen Paki marriages go really sour when the wife finds out her husband is interested in Polygamy.They act nice on the husbands face but stab him in the back by creating family conflicts.They are very good at lying and acting innocent when people look at them with a raised eyebrow.
    My sister inlaw her husband was going to marry a paki female he worked with and man she just went NUTS ready to leave him and divorce she went into a horrible depression and could not even deal her kids.It was so sad.She felt like a fool because she loved him so much.Another sister inlaw flat stole gold and left my inlaws home when my she thought my husbands brother was going to marry another paki women in UK.My family alone has been hit so hard by just the mention of Polygamy.
    I don’t know what the answer is when it comes to Pakistanis and Polygamy because for sure it is going on but not sure how it is all going to play out in the next generation since they are not practicing polygamy correctly.
    The key is if u r going to Practice Polygamy it should be practiced correctly otherwise it turns into a huge disaster in my opinion so please be careful and safe guard your future because u can’t afford more mistakes.

  • Spirited

    March 9, 2016
    Salaam everyone!

    @baseema, Ana, ummof4, oh it’s not just one guy, but this one was the only one so far to suggest anal as well. There have been many strange propositions from Muslim men. It’s really kind of depressing, but I’m going to keep looking. I’m sure there’s decent guys out there, and the one who best suits me is out there too somewhere. Insha’Allah, I will be guided to him in due time.

    My parents have been looking also, and this one person they’ve brought forward seems to be decent (a bit on the boring side but that’s ok). But my parents have recently begun to think he may be fishing for a 2nd wife. He says he’s been islamically divorced for over a year and his ex-wife lives with her family in another state, but legally they are still going through the courts because she’s demanding certain things that are in his name, but do not belong to him, so they’re still sorting this out in courts but he had decided to move on with his life in the meantime. My parents think he may just remain married to her legally and marry me islamically. They asked me if I had a problem with being in polygamy again, just in case.

    I hadn’t thought about it. My first experience has left a bad taste in my mouth, so I haven’t considered polygamy seriously again. Plus, I really doubt there are many (if any) men these days who can handle this kind of marriage well. I have had other offers to become an additional wife, but they’ve been obvious “deceptions of first wife” sort of setups and I want no part of a marriage built on lies (again), so those have been clear NO replies lol. This one seems to be a little harder to read. . Well, all in due time, Insha’Allah.

    Well, I’ll keep you guys updated. Overall, so far there was only one guy I was very interested in but he turned out to be a liar, so had to move on from that. :( Everyone else so far has been “just ok” to “…ugh”. I don’t think I’m being too picky. Really my only requirements are that he must be a US citizen like me and a decent human being lol.
    Talk to you awesome peeps later!

  • Eski2016

    March 7, 2016
    Gail, you may be right about that…and I won’t argue with that. I will definitely keep in touch. :) Again thank you ladies!
  • ummof4

    March 6, 2016
    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    Spirited, please block the pervert! There is no reason for you to read any correspondence from him at all!

  • Gail

    March 6, 2016
    Eski2016,

    Look what your guy is doing is mind and emotional control games.He is not going to block u because u are his immigration ticket BUT he is going to get u under his control.Look u go ahead and deal this guy and screw your life.I have no doubt u will be back here in less than a years time with your own crazy story about u wish u would have listened.What u r going through is not love.U are infatuated with this guy and romancing/day dreaming about this exotic life that u vision with him.You are dancing with the Devil.

  • anabellah

    March 5, 2016

    baseema, I think he’s more like a You're a Pig

  • baseema

    March 5, 2016
    ewww, spirited, block that loser so he can’t contact you again!! he keeps trying because he knows you keep reading!! he is disgusting!! men!! UGH!!
  • Eski2016

    March 5, 2016
    I definitely will Anna, :) I don’t think I will ever forget this page..:D
  • anabellah

    March 5, 2016

    Eski2016,

    Thank you for sharing the poem. I am hoping that you move on, as well. I understand you love him and it’s not easy to let go, but I think you know deep down that it’s best that you do. Know that you can do better than him. Don’t settle for someone who talks a good game. Investigate the man before you delve into another relationship. We live and we learn life. No one was born with all the answers. No one knows it all. I wish the very best for you, Eski2016. Keep us updated on your progress, God willing.

  • Eski2016

    March 5, 2016
    Thank you Anna. I also wanted to share this…I have been wanting signs and answers for a long time. And I read similar blogs from other sites and this lady went almost went through the same thing as me with a Pakistani male. So I asks for more signs (prayed). And this kept popping up more then once today..

    Poems Porn

    But darling, I do not
    Think you’re in with love Him

    Maybe
    You’re in love with the Attention he gives you
    Maybe
    You’re in love with
    What he thinks and what
    He’d do for you
    And maybe
    You’re a little bit too lonely
    To see the difference

    So, I kept reading that over and over today. and made me think this was one of the signs I was asking for. So I had to share this for those who is/was stuck like I was but woke me up. Again thank you |Anna & Gail for taking your time. I am hoping to move on.

  • anabellah

    March 5, 2016

    Eski2016,

    I’m going to speak with you about your situation with the guy from an Islamic perspective. I believe that Allah who is God wrote everything for each and everyone of us before we were born. Allah mapped out our lives for us. He wrote the script. The ink is dried. So, for you to ask how it would have been for you and the guy, if it had worked out, you’d have to ask God how He would have written the script for you. You’re simply dealing with fantasy right now. What is in your head is not real. You’re not dealing with what is real. You and he are not a couple; you and he are not an item; it’s not happening for you and him right now, so you best stop daydreaming about it.

    Did you think about what he meant when he said you are just a “heatless” woman? I haven’t heard anyone say it before. It made me think of a dog in heat. Please forgive me, if I offend, but I want to be honest. You won’t give up and you really need to. He is looking for someone to use for his benefit and you have let him know that you are not the one.

    I have a good friend who said something to me that I don’t think I will ever forget. He said, What you chase runs from you and what you run from chases you. It’s what a chase is all about.” You are chasing the guy who you are in LUST with and he is running from you. He doesn’t want to be bothered with you anymore.

    He may, very well see you as needy and desperate. Where is your sense of pride? Where is your dignity. You have lost it. I suggest you leave him alone long enough to go find it.

    Maybe he doesn’t want to block you, because you are feeding his ego. You are making him feel like a king while you are lowering yourself to be the lowest of the low. Leave him alone. Let him be. He is not the one for you. He has let you know it. Stop trying to read something into it that is not there.

  • Eski2016

    March 5, 2016
    Just got me thinking..how it would have been for me and this guy, if it worked out that’s all. I just wish he hadn’t found me, but I was stupid enough to accept! Now I cant get over him because he is over me. I text him a few days ago saying “Annoying how you haven’t said anything to me for over a week..” He read it but never replied. So I asked him again “Have you already move on?” & his reply was “U just a heatless woman” So I replied “Everything is my fault” “And I thought if you loved someone you work stuff out…I am assuming we wont work things out” Again he hasn’t replied but he had read it. And this was yesterday. Again I notice he was online but hasn’t said a thing to me. So I text him saying ” I know you are mad at me for tge stuff I said…I would be mad at me too if someone said that to me…and I hope you will forgive me soon enough.” I know this sounds so desperate but he made me will like I was someone Special. But I don’t understand why he hasn’t blocked me yet? Maybe he still has feelings for me? Who knows? I can be wrong…I also to him ” And I understand if you don’t ever want to talk to me anymore…but I was you to tell me, and definitely I will stop contacting you.”
  • anabellah

    March 5, 2016

    Eski2016,

    In time you’ll probably get over him. He’s done you a huge favor by not wanting to be bothered with you any longer since you got wind that he was trying to con and scam you. He apparently doesn’t want to waste his time with you now that you are onto him. There is no benefit for him to be bothered with you.

    About you still wanting to be bothered with him after learning that he is a low down dirty dog, well, some women are attracted to the under dog or bad boys. Maybe you’re one of them.

  • Eski2016

    March 5, 2016
    Dear Bloggers,

    I read and did some research beginning of the year because I was too afraid to get hurt. But what is life without trying something new or meeting someone you never met before? Life is a lesson and we have to learn from them. Is my opinion. I do now have regrets finding this site in somewhat way…maybe because I do want to meet this guy? I don’t know. But he no longer wants anything to do with me because I told him I did some research and found this site just a week ago. And I can’t seem to get over him, just because he doesn’t want anything to do with me anymore…why is that? Has any of the ladies been through this before? I want to let him go but for some reason my mind and heart can’t seem to let go. With all the words he said to me made me like/love him more. But the fact was I told him what I was reading from this site. I even made plans to try and go meet him in his country but I guess that went down the drain. :( I guess you ladies can say I am in Love him? Stupid enough to say…but it may be true.

  • Spirited

    March 4, 2016
    I forgot to mention something, Mariaelena, something that men are known for in general is that they are angels when they’re after something (so loving, wonderful, courteous and respectful, etc), and when they get it, then they show their true colors. This is even more heightened in Pakistani men because of their ego and selfishness. HOWEVER, it’s not just Pakistanis– Indians, and especially Arabs are majorly like this.

    You just have to be careful and ignore their words. Look more at actions, see what those around them say about them, etc. Like Ana writes in the main article above, try to thoroughly investigate the man if you can. Not ALL of them are scum, but more and more of them are these days.

    I’m currently checking the market for guys and too many Muslim men are so pathetic that they even ask for sex outside of marriage. “Try before you buy” sort of thing, from the way they talk. It’s so sickening, these are the Muslim men today. There’s one, a Pakistani, who doesn’t give up and at least once a week (usually more) messages me to ask for sex or nude pics, or oral and even has begged for anal sex. . Mind you, of course I would not and have not ever said I would do ANYTHING with this idiot, but he’s going to keep on chasing until he gets what he wants. And if he did get what he wanted, he would drop all attention and go chasing one of the other women I’m sure he has his eyes on. I just pointed that out because it sounds very similar to what Mariaelena’s loser did.

    Mariaelena, so I just wanted to say once again, please do consider cutting him out of your life and moving on. Trust in Allah and your life will be the better for it, Insha’Allah.

  • Spirited

    March 4, 2016
    Salaam,

    @Mariaelena, sorry to hear what you went through. It’s too bad most people come across this warning after already being in touch with one of these kinds of losers :(. You’ve been given great advice by people who have lived it. Its up to you if you take heed or not.

    The absolute best course of action would be to leave him, forget him, and move on. No doubt he would sweet talk you into staying if he needs more out of you that you might not even think about, but it isn’t worth the heartache you will endure if you keep him in your life.

    He’s already lied to you (and you don’t even know how deep the lies are), so that throws trust out the window to begin with. Then you’ll be dealing with constant lies and secrets due to the nature of the way pakistani idiots “handle” polygamy. As already mentioned before, you also have the selfish nature of this guy to boot. I don’t see a whole lot worth staying over. Even if you do stick with him, how do you know he won’t be rid of you down the line a few years from now? Get out while the going is good, don’t be like some of us who learned the hard way.

  • anabellah

    March 3, 2016

    Gail,

    Mariaelena is holding onto some hope about that loser and if she doesn’t let go, as you stated, she will most likely end up “mentally destroyed. ” I think he’s subtlely is letting her know he is through with her in attacking her about her ego and pride. It’s as if he’s saying, get over it. Sh!t happens. He has no regard for her SMH

  • Gail

    March 3, 2016
    Baseema,

    U were right on in your post! I could not have said it any better myself! I really got hot as well when he tried to blame it on mariaelena and her ego! She has to move on or she will end up being mentally destroyed.She can’t trust him because he is a man whore straight up!

  • Gail

    March 2, 2016
    Mariaelena,

    I read your post and straight up he is flat out lying to u.His wife held up rat poison and threaten to take it if he did not have sex with her YEAH RIGHT! He is lying to u and playing u for a full and feeding off your emotions and that is the sincere truth of it girl.Knowone twisted his hand and made him marry anyone he knew exactly what he was doing and I am darn certain he enjoyed every second of sex with his wife.Pakistani woman are virgins when they marry and his family was picked that girl which is the way it is done.It don’t matter that u were a virgin to him obviously because he wants to keep u on the side in secret understand.Your value is zero to him.I hope u can see this and stop feeding into his idiot lies.

  • baseema

    March 2, 2016
    oh and about the “little details he didn’t have to tell you?” Yes he did!! that is part of the deception…you have to tell some of the truth to get a believable LIE! the little details he didnt have to tell you are just more of his plan to make him look like a hero in your eyes *vomit*

    you seem like a really nice person…i hope you make the right decision!! and dont worry about him separating himself from his child. more than likely he will do this anyway. if not you, then someone else. he’s all about himself, i pity his wife and future children! once these men go live abroad, they want to stay, there is no future in pakistan, his wife will be stuck…be glad you are free, run!!

  • baseema

    March 2, 2016
    mariaelena, i’m so sorry to hear this but the rat poison story was way too much!!!! LOL i’m sorry to laugh but these men are so stupid and they think you are so gullible… i told your story to my pakistani friend and he said it is rubbish (when he finished laughing) all i hear are the women pretending to be fainting, -the rat poison is too much!!! LOL i’m sorry i dont mean to laugh at you, but this guy, i believe, knew everything well ahead of time and he was just passing the time with you. i dont believe he was beaten up either, not for a second. it sounds kinder to tell you that though, and i’m sure he does care about you in his twisted selfish way.

    he will not divorce her either. from what i have seen, his family won’t care about you as long as you are helping to support him! i think they like ties with foreign women because it gives him a higher status in his family…this looks like a future of misery, do you really want to waste another 8 years with him, being miserable all the time? and OF COURSE it’s your ego and false pride to blame! that’s a standard excuse with paki men. they are the victim as always, and you are to blame for your big ego!!! LOL omg dump this loser!! it’s not love, it’s a sickness.

    you can never trust him again. he should have come clean from the start and let you know this was going to happen one day. but you know what their head says? oh when the time comes i will handle it…by then she will be in love with me and accept it!! my friend told me this, the guys talk this over amongst themselves and scheme…he has known his whole life that he was going to be married to someone from there. and let me tell you, his family did not beat him up at all. they welcomed him home like a prince!!!!!! he is telling you big fibs!! he had trouble getting the papers because he knew he would be in big trouble for marrying someone else!!! that big liar!!!

    and she was telling him to think of you?? LOL wow is this guy slick!! most likely she has no clue about you!! his family does not care about you, they want a wife that will be their cook and maid, in their home. And all the new furniture, refrigerator, stove, couch, air conditioner, gold, and riches that come along with her. I am certain that they got a lot of riches because he is so prized as a husband, being that he travels and lives abroad!! my friend tells me all about the people there and how they act. he is also soon to be married to someone he does not know but is a distant cousin. he has never even met her. but she comes highly recommended!!

    please, feel sorry for his wife, and be glad it’s not you there, left alone with his family who will have her working like a slave….and don’t ever go there. don’t waste your life. he’s not worth it. oh and he enjoyed every minute of it. i’ve seen pictures from paki weddings and hear all about them…they are big 3 day affairs…every day a celebration..what a liar he is saying he was beat up…he knew years in advance, they start planning way far in advance, usually the girl is in college and then when the girl graduates from college (a couple years later), the wedding celebrations take place…

    do not trust this man, nor his family. he may indeed care about you, but never to the amount he does his family…they will always come first, as will his wife…his family never cared about you, that much is obvious…you’re just a pastime for him, this is one thing i hate about paki families, they don’t seem to care anything about anyone but their own families and sometimes not even them…all they think is money and power…the whole family invests in the son to get him abroad…thousands of dollars….he knows he has to marry someone for mommy…he’s known for years….get out now while you can, before you end up pregnant and stuck with him!

    he makes me sick that he blamed it on your ego and false pride! b@stard!! -_-

  • anabellah

    March 2, 2016

    Mariaelena,

    He could be telling you the truth now, so you can move on with your life without him. He’s ready to settle down in his new life now perhaps. He is letting you know that he is stuck with her and it’s on you as to how you proceed.

  • anabellah

    March 2, 2016

    Mariaelena,

    I really feel for you. I can imagine how distraught, upset and hurt you are by what has happened to you. He is one sick being to say that you are about ego and false pride. There is no person more about self than others like him and there are a lot of those, apparently. He strung you along knowing full well what was in store for him and you. He knew he was intended to marry. I’m sure he lied about being forced into that marriage. He lies like a rug. He is one sick pup. You’ll be foolish to believe anything that man says. He has a wife now and why shouldn’t she get pregnant and bare his child, if it’s what Allah has written for her. He is a terrible man to make his wife out to be a bad person, now that he has married her. It sickens me to hear men paint their wives to be an undesirable pitiful piece of sh!t so that another woman whether it’s a wife or a mistress can feel better. He says he has to have sex with her so she doesn’t off herself on some rat poison that she’d take to kill herself. Too bad it’s not him thinking of taking the rat poison. I don’t know how you stomach talking to him anymore after what he’s done. Sigh. Yes, please keep us updated. I hope for your sake you come to your senses and kiss his @$$ goodbye.

  • Mariaelena

    March 2, 2016
    Thank you all for responding. Honestly he has never taken money from me ever, he always wanted to be the man to pay in whatever we did. I was stupid ,I was a virgin as well,my mother raised me up very strict ,and I was saving myself for marriage ,there is some families like this also in greece not many but there is. I made him wait 3 years until I saw a paper he had gotten from Islamabad saying he had never been married it was the process that we need certain papers to get married here.Silly I am i gave in to him ,but im responsible for my actions.Then later certain papers were taking longer to get ,because greece is not so advanced like other countries when it comes to paperwork. Then he went off for work in italy to his brother.

    Well I just found out he’s back in Italy ,he got in touch me. He told me he got married with that woman,I asked if he completed the relationship with her,he says he didn’t want to but She was holding some pills saying it’s rat poison, that if he doesn’t have intercourse with her she threaten him that she will swallow them and etc. He told me 4 times he went with her in two days,and that she was telling him to think of me …I’m so mortified with all this.. Now that he is back ..I asked him where are you going this, because I need to know where I stand…He says that he will divorce her if she is not pregnant but if she is he will not. I told him I’m not a third wheel ,and if she is with child I would never interfere ,I respect myself too much. He thinks that I will stay with him, he says I want you in my life.. I told him I was in your life but you and your family didn’t respect me, how I did for them.. He expects me to stay with him while he is married to her. How can I do that… I’m not jealous, I’m thinking of the future if she is with child and I have a child ..that would be messed up I’m already not welcomed there to begin with … once you have a child ,it’s not about us its about them , and I will not separate a father from a child ,or have my child grow up knowing he goes back and forth..It would play psychologically with the child’s mind..insecurity and unstable …I might be wrong ,maybe it’s because I’m not from there, I was raised watching my grandparent being together and no third person and the same with my parents. God rest my father’s soul ,that he is not here to see me go through this. I haven’t even told my mom this,it would shock her. I still love him so much, through ups and downs and struggles that we went through together .I told him try to be in my shoes, how would you like if I was going back and forth to another man and you .he was silent. Exactly that’s how I feel..its not about jealousy ..its about my heart I gave him..In all these years he made me feel safe and secured emotionally not talking financially.. He made me that I could trust him like I do with my parents… He knocked me off my feet after what he did, what his parents made him do …or whatever…I’m sorry I’m not here to judge religion or anything else I’m here because I have no one to share this with,because they will not understand me.. I’m trying to understand the whole situation which has happen. May Allah forgive those who have deceived and lied, and to forgive my sins as well..How can they build happiness on somebody’s else misery …its wrong..no matter how you see or what culture and customs..They know they did wrong, how can they sleep easy at night .Don’t get me wrong i know plenty pakistani families which married with foreign women… and they are my parents age..They are happy and with their children. .and their inlaws are ok with it. I guess I got unlucky in this .. Thank you all for listening to me going on and on ,on this.. I’m still shocked and I havent digest the whole thing.I will let you all know what will happen. I have a lot to think on, I hate him because I look at him differently, he’s destroyed what was between us..He says it’s your ego and false pride I said it’s not that, it’s my heart you stepped on and the disrespect you have shown me,I said you can’t be in so much in denial and not see what you have done..It’s not normal all this. I understand there is families that accept this way..But at least the person should know and be aware and have a choice to decline or accept. The problem is he could have known from the start,but i dont know…If he lied to me to begin with,he didnt have to tell me all these details that happen to him, he could have hidden it well.but he’s telling me everything .I don’t know what I will do..But one thing I do know is I feel we are cracked..its change ,everything:(.May Allah help me be strong to bear all this, and to choose wisely..May you all be well.

  • Omer

    February 28, 2016
    Mariaelena,
    I’m sorry to hear about your condition but sincerely speaking i advise you get rid of that man, he’s constantly telling you a lie. I’m also from Pakistan and know the mentality of theses kind ov peoples.
  • Gail

    February 27, 2016
    Mariaelena,

    I read your post and Ana’s response back to u and she is correct i everything she told u.
    I know u r invested 8 yrs in this guy and u love him but truthfully what he was doing was stringing u along.He has known his parents would marry him obviously all along because that is their culture.They don’t do love marriages the way we do in the west.Normally they marry a cousin or someone the family knows.It is about making relations through marriages not so much about the 2 people involved.
    He is lying to say they beat him up that is a bold face lie because he was raised to respect his elders and he would never disrespect them so he is lying to u straight up.He will marry the Pakistani girl and chances are he already has married her to be honest and u will see soon he will tell u he married her(Oh but they made him will be his excuse) I will tell u this Pakistani men think they r smart but they are NOT when it comes to Polygamy.They say everything will be fine but Pakistani women do not accept polygamy and they create problems over problems trying to get their husbands to divorce the foreign women.I would not suggest to u to try polygamy marriage with a Pakistani man simply because the Pakistani wife and his family will not be so accepting towards u and it is not fair to bring kids into that kind of screwed up marriage.
    Now in saying that u have decide your own fate.Please choose wisely your future depends on it.

  • anabellah

    February 27, 2016

    Mariaelena,

    I’m very sorry to hear about what is happening to you. I know you must be all that you say, going nuts etc. I can only imagine how I’d feel, if I were you.

    I wish I could say there is hope for you and him as far as being monogamous together and living happily-ever-after, but I can’t. In all likelihood, he will marry someone of his parent’s choosing. It’s the custom of the village people in Pakistan. He’s probably intended to one of his cousins. I think he was untruthful to you the entire time you’ve been dealing with him or he withheld the truth. He knows what his culture in Pakistan is. He wasn’t born yesterday. He knows the Pakistani males are expected to marry their Pakistani cousin or some other Pakistani woman from the village. I don’t know if you could trust that his family beat him up and took his passport. Maybe they did and maybe they didn’t. It’s doesn’t matter cuz the Pakistani boys and men usually do as mommy tells them. Their mommy is their Lord to them.

    The only hope you have to be with him is to be a part of polygamy. It probably won’t work well for you either cuz Pakistanis don’t too much believe in polygamy. Many of them are greedy and want to keep all the wealth to themselves in their families. It’s why they all keep marrying the family. They’re kissing cousins. Elvis Presley could have written the song for them.

    I’m not surprised that you met some of his family and they seemed to like you. How much money did you invest in him? His family wouldn’t care what he does as long as what he does benefits them in some way. They didn’t care what he did as long as he comes back home, to marry the cousin or whomever, when they summoned him. If Gail, who is our Pakistani expert, was here, she’d tell you that the Pakistanis view women from the west as whores. Women in Pakistan must be a virgin to wed. You best believe his family has set him up with a virgin cousin back home.

    Their talk about Islam is just that – TALK. They haven’t a clue about Islam. They talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk.

    I’d say to you to cut your losses and be done with that loser Loser sign It’s the best I could tell you. Please check in, as our Gail may stop in sooner or later and grace us with her presence :-) She’s a wealth of information for you. If you have any other questions or just want to talk, we’re here for you. I apologize for taking so long to answer your post. I hope things get better for you and you could put him behind you or get some clarity. Don’t beat yourself up or feel foolish. Those men are some master manipulators. They’ve got con and scam down packed.

  • Mariaelena

    February 26, 2016
    I am in a relationship with a pakistani man for 8 years,I met him through college friends, we wanted to get married but we had to correct some papers of his in greece,he was legal and everything ,he didn’t need me for citizenship like what most people would say. but once he couldn’t do that he moved to Italy to his brother for work. I have met his brother only once.His parents know of us,they know I have stood by him through everything. He told me they have accepted me. My mother and family had open their arms and home to him and trusted him to do good by me.I felt I knew him inside out,that he is my soul mate after every struggle I have been with him from the start. Then he decided to go visit his parents back home at their village. 2nd day they have argument and his father and cousin beat him up..He found out that his father has promised him to a girl from another family who are family my marriage.His father did this without asking or to have consent. His son is not 20 but 38 year old man that has lived abroad for many years.After that they beat him,they took his passport and papers so he won’t travel or leave until he marry this girl. They are forcing him.he has people all around pressuring and pushing trying to convince him.He has said to them, and they already knew we are engaged to be married. They say they don’t care who you marry in Europe just as long you have a wife here.I’m so distraught with all this. They say it’s a insult if he refuses but how about us ,me is it not a insult to me and my family when they knew of us.Isn’t shame to them and a sin to do this to us,when they preach so much about Islam in the family.Now I know I’m not welcomed there for sure.He tells me the only way out of there is to marry and leave if they give his passport. I’m lost and so much hurt that I can’t even explain or tell my family of this,because they would be angry …All I know is I have to wait till I see him so I can get this off my chest everything I feel..I’m going nuts,, I still can’t believe this would happen after so long..I pray for a miracle that he won’t be pushed to be married…They have ruined me inside :( I really don’t know what to believe anymore.I trusted him with my heart and soul and life..
  • Eski2016

    February 21, 2016
    Ana, that is exactly what I needed to hear. </3 Can't believe its even legal to marry online. Especially if they're nothing but a scams! To deceit and hurt!
  • Debonair

    February 20, 2016
    I’m glad this article is written, hopefully a wake-up call to all the love-sick women who fall for mysterious, charming Pakistani men and refuse to believe he is anything other than perfect.

    I know too many women who were the same, married to a complete stranger. All the signs were there, but no WE were the ones who were wrong and they were always right. Amazing how emotion can turn even the smartest of women into complete idiots. ‘He loves me, hes kind to me, he buys me nice things’ (a lot of time it was sadly the materialistic side to things which tended to win them over the most… pfft and women claim they can’t be bought!) and then six weeks/six months/six years later they find out the bitter truth and its all too much for them to handle.

    Latest victim was two weeks ago, when a Hindu friend of mine discovered pictures on Facebook of her husband with his other wife and sent them to me, along with her colourful, outraged commentary! How hard I had to bite my tongue to stop me from saying ‘Well I told you so!’

    Sisters PLEASE. WAKE. UP

    A good friend would not get jealous of your relationship. So if she is saying that it doesn’t seem right then LISTEN to her

  • anabellah

    February 20, 2016

    Gail,

    The guy that Eski2016 was talking to probably wanted to do an Islamic marriage online, which is lawful as far as I know. Once he gets Eskimo feeling comfortable with being married Islamically, he then most likely would push for her to get him migrated. It’s what I’m thinking. He probably would have her go to Pakistan to formalize the marriage.

  • Gail

    February 20, 2016
    Eski2016,

    It’s not normal in the least for a guy to want to marry a women he has never met online.Believe me the Pakistani men do this kind of $h!t stuff then them and their entire family and friends sit around laughing about how stupid a woman has to be to marry a guy she never met online and how he is lucky to find such an idiot so he can immigrate.Thats what would have happened had u said yes to an online marriage although as far as I know USA does not allow such marriages.I have heard of online marriages so it must happen in other countries and is legal but it is a very very strange thing to do if u ask me.
    Be very careful when mixing up with Pakistani,Saudi and other foreign men looking for greencards.

  • Eski2016

    February 20, 2016
    Yes I understand that part…but if I was so insecure and gone with agreeing with him getting married online if that’s even possible? What would have happened? To me or to me and him?
  • anabellah

    February 20, 2016

    Eski2016,

    Hi there :-) I understand how you have been thinking, questioning and wondering about the guy whom you were involved with romantically online. Try not to second guess yourself. Instead, weigh all the variables. You will come to a definitive conclusion that it was all that we said it appeared to have been, and that not proceeding with him was best for you. As long as you deal with “what if”, you won’t be able to put it behind you and move on.

  • Eski2016

    February 20, 2016
    Hello ladies, I have been thinking and questioning myself since I last post about the guy I met online (when he found me). How I told you guys about how much he wants to meet me and my family. And when he kept asking me to marry him (online). If I was insecure and said yes. What would have happened? Because he asked me not more then once…it was almost every time we talked (text). But it bothered me because we have never ever met. And I have never ever dreamed of my “marriage” (wedding) like that.
  • anabellah

    February 18, 2016

    Save me,

    We’re just happy to help. If I could just help save one person, it feels as though, I’ve saved the world. I don’t know how a country full of people who call themselves Muslims could be so jacked up. Where is their conscience? They’ve turned their backs on Allah.

    I’m glad you’re okay. Be sure to warn others who you think maybe be likely to fall prey to such unscrupulous scoundrel.

    Enjoy your pizza. Have a bite for me :-)

  • Save me

    February 18, 2016
    Dear gail and annabella,
    Thank you so much. I have explained to him clearly that we cannot get married and that he should stop thinking of me that way. I am sorry for the whole pakistani people for having such culture that tortures the ladies when most pakistani are muslims. Muslims are supposed to respect women and care for them…keeping them at home is not protecting them, thats wrong. Especially for ladies that have to serve their inlaws family, which can amount to 20 individuals per home…thats really wrong…there is just so many things wrong that i have read about, and they are real life experiences. I understand certain individuals could differ, but how do we know? How can we know, and it is a risk i am not willing to take, because marriage is sacred…you dont get into marriage with a different agenda than getting married…than it will fail…May Allah help those who seek to marry a pakistani guy, May Allah protect us ladies from the harms of dunya…i am at peace now. I believe there are really good pakistani guys, but I guess im not in an adventure mode to find one. Thank you so much for all the comments below, it opened up my mind to many things….i am so grateful i think im gonna find some pizza to eat later…haha
  • Gail

    February 15, 2016
    Save me,

    Hi I am Gail welcome to the blog.I agree with everything Ana has told u.If he is rich then it seems to me has alot of cousins or women to choose from in Pakistan so u have to ask yourself why is he sniffing around u.Obviously he is seeing something in u like a a Greencard.Just watch your back and don’t trust.I am sure his mom has a wife in mind for him already back home in Pakistan.

  • anabellah

    February 14, 2016

    I read an interesting article. It’s about Pakistan’s condemnation of St. Valentine’s Day. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35570606

    I am in line with them condemning the celebration of Valentine’s Day, as it is not an Islamic holiday. It’s, however, not why Pakistan condemned it. They condemned it, as it goes against their culture. We should pretty much know by now that Pakistani culture has nothing to do with Islam. Condemning it is good, but they condemned it for the wrong reason.

  • anabellah

    February 14, 2016

    Save me,

    Tell him that you want to get married in Pakistan, register your marriage there, live there and never return to your country. Don’t be surprised if he falls out of love with you INSTANTLY once you say it and are convincing about it. They have the type of “love” that works that way. They love a person only when there is potential. Try it out…

  • anabellah

    February 14, 2016

    Hello Save me,

    I’m glad you were able to find this blog, and not make what could be one of the biggest and worse mistake of your life by marrying the Pakistani guy. There is nothing more that can be said to you once you read the 750 comments on this tread about marrying a Pakistani male. You should know by reading it that you aren’t special. You got caught up out there by one of the men looking for a way out of Pakistan by any means necessary, such as by marrying you. Who cares how rich his family is? Pakistani people are only about Pakistani people and getting whatever they can to make their lives and the lives of their families better. It not about you. Nothing associated with the man is about you other than to get what he can from you.

    I suggest you simple tell him that there are too many differences between you and he and it’s in your best interest to not marry him. Leave it at that. Tell him the truth. Tell him that you’ve read information on this blog about Pakistani men and you are not willing to wait and see if he is one of the good guys or not. Tell him that you have no intention of getting immigration for anyone. Tell him whatever is the truth and keep it moving.

  • Save me

    February 14, 2016
    Dear all,
    Save me from this tragedy (going to be)…biggest problem is i am A very optimistic person…that i believe things can workout. I work in the university where i was a research officer, and i had to face these lot of foreign student including this one pakistani guy. Yes he is charming, with his words and all. He seemed to me from the start such a heartrob, and after him confessing of wanting to marry me, i told him i like him. The problem is, now my women instict tells me, this isn’t right (as im typing this, i do feel sorry for him, but i cannot marry him because i feel sorry for him) obviously…now the help that i need is what should i do to tell him i clearly dont think we are going to work. By the way he is from islamabad and came from a rich family…that i can confirm you…but being impossibly optimistic, i might think that things would work out again and not leave him entirely…owh give me the bravery to do so…help
  • anabellah

    February 12, 2016

    Gail,

    You are correct! So called Muslim men are the ones doing most of the molesting. It’s what’s baffling. It’s because they turned their backs on Allah and went back to pre-Islamic times. It’s why no one encourage people to read the Quran. Emphasis is on other books. They don’t want people to know the TRUTH. They wasn’t to keep people in darkness. They want to continue to treat women as chattel :-(

  • Gail

    February 12, 2016
    Ana,

    It’s true that alot of men have this thing about a women being with a male escort.I know in Pakistan the younger females have to go with an older female out or a male escort that is a family member.It’s crazy to us because we were not taught that way.The weird thing is the men that claim to be religious are the majority that do these nasty molesting and rape crimes.

  • anabellah

    February 12, 2016

    When I used to work, men would hit on me. So, what, put them in their place and keep it moving. In the US we police ourselves. Of course, there are criminals out there and rape has been known to happen. Much of it is “Date Rape.” There is a difference. The rape victim doesn’t get stoned to death Overall, the US is a safe place to live unless you live in Compton or someplace in Philly or someplace like it

  • anabellah

    February 12, 2016

    What’s amazing still is that there are some American Muslims who want to go back in time

  • anabellah

    February 12, 2016

    Gail,

    Yeap, the culture thing is mind blowing. Years ago my younger sister used to live in an apartment. A Pakistani Muslim woman, her husband and their 2 children lived in a neighboring apartment. My sister got to know her while on maternity leave. I had just become Muslim. My sister was telling me about her and that she sews her own clothes that are beautiful. I asked her to ask her to make me some outfits and I’d pay her. My sister asked and she said her husband won’t allow her to do it, cuz it’s (as you said) like working and she’s not allowed to work. My sister said that the woman had a boy and a girl. The husband treated the boy like royalty. He wouldn’t allow the wife to chastise the boy.

    It could be that women in some of those countries aren’t allowed out and about and allowed to work because some of those men are barbaric from what I’ve learned. It’s nothing for them to think that is a woman is out the men could grab the women boobages or derriere and molest them. Wican Woman was telling me once that she knows a woman who was raped and another man who was online who was part of the discussion with Wiccan woman and the rape victim said that she deserved to have been raped for being out without a husband or male escort or something like it. He said any woman out there like it deserves it if she gets raped. She’s supposed to get raped. I’m glad I live in the 21st century in America, and didn’t get stuck time. Those people need to do some time travel…

  • Gail

    February 11, 2016
    Ana,

    All my sister inlaws but one are educated yet not one of them work.In Pakistan they have some crazy notion that only poor women work and they don’t like to let the women out because men/their bosses more than likely would hit on them.
    I just find it amazing though how they want to marry in their families yet they lie to each other like Baseema said giving fake gold.It seems NUTS to me but Baseema is saying right.Then u have the educated generation stuck having to follow the not educated generation parents and grandparents so it gets mind blowing real quick.

    Baseema,
    Yeah I forgot to mention the Lizards.Lord those things freak my $h!t running all over the dang walls.I live scared to death one will fall on me!We also have had snakes running in the home on a few occasions which I am deathly afraid of as well.One night a snake got in our room and it went over my foot and obviously I start screaming like a lunatic and run and jump on the bed screaming my husabnd was asleep naked in the bed well I was in shock screaming and he woke up in shock not realizing he was in his birthday suit.He grabs a shoe and starts looking around for it and I see it slither under the door knowing his brother was sleeping on the floor in the other room I scream to him his brother is on the floor so he runs out naked with the shoe grabs his brother and tells him to go sleep on the sofa their is a snake and he is still walking around hunched over naked walking like a chicken looking for that stupid snake.I guess about 5 minutes or so he comes back figures out he is naked and I said did anyone see u and he said lord I hope not because they would get a free show.Obviously his brother saw him and we all laughed about it later but at the time I was sooo freaked out I could not think straight.lol

  • anabellah

    February 11, 2016

    I hadn’t given it much thought; although I did used to sometimes wonder why the women in the US, years ago, used to go to college to get a degree, not so they could work, but so that they could get a husband. I understand clearly now what it was all about. I’ve come to realize that the women got those degrees so that they could communicate intelligently with their husbands and his and her friends and associates. Education is very important. It’s not so much about what people learn. It’s deeper than it. It’s about being able to process information and think on a higher level. We hear a lot that the people who are marrying their first cousins and making the wife a slave to her in-laws and all the carrying that they do are uneducated, village people. If we think about Islam, education is paramount. We should READ. It the first thing that was said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). If a person reads the Quran (with sincere intention, wanting to worship and serve Allah and for no other reason, the person will get an education. They will learn the meaning of life.

  • anabellah

    February 11, 2016

    baseema,

    I just don’t know. I read some of these posts such as what you just said and what Gail wrote and I start laughing as though I’m reading a comedy and then I have to pull myself together and say – this is someone’s life. This is real.
    People in Pakistan have got some racket going. They marry their cousins; they make the cousin/wife the maid/slave (as you said Cinderella) to the husband’s parents and whomever else; they keep all their money in their families (eat up the wealth amongst themselves, which Allah says don’t do). They lie, cheat and steal – AND- these people call themselves Muslims. Granted, everyone sin, but COME ON????. What is Islamic about any of it? It the craziest, most absurd thing I’ve ever heard of. The women get educated so that they could become a slave. It sounds a bit backwards to me I know years ago women in the States used to get a higher education and degrees to get a certain type of husband. Those women usually ended up with husbands who had prestigious jobs, nice houses; nice cars and all the perks that goes with it. I don’t know when or if I’ll ever be able to not be astonished by what I read about some of those people.

  • baseema

    February 11, 2016
    Gail, what you guessed happened, is exactly what I said. Lol. Don’t worry, it’s okay! I’ve heard stories of lizards running around too, inside the house.

    Oh, and my friend’s sister married her cousin, and after the gold jewelry was given, they realized it was fake. On the 3rd day of the wedding, they were confused what to do, since the grooms parents were the bride’s mother’s brother! They (groom’s parents) explained that they ran low on money and would make it up later. The bride and her family accepted it.

    Today, they have a son, and my friend’s sister lives in the same house with the groom’s parents, and four brothers. She does all the cooking and cleaning but she is arguing for her own place now. MIL/Aunt is kind of cranky. Poor bride has to do all the work like Cinderella, ugh. Terrible. A baby, four brothers, and mother and father, oh and husband! Yikes. She is such a beautiful girl, has a master’s degree, and here she is the maid of the house.

  • Gail

    February 11, 2016
    Baseema,

    I actually have lived in Pakistan.I lived nearly 2 years in Pakistan when I married and I have been back so many times for 4 and 5 month at a time when I go and I do get it I just don’t agree with it.In my families case my mother inlaw used to stock food by the boat loads but my cowife used to hide food and when her family came she would send it back to the village with them(her family steals things).Had it been me I would have beat her very good and confronted her family about this topic but for whatever crazy reason they never speak up and just stopped bringing food into the home.I am a very open person u piss me off I am going to let u know it straight up I would never think to talk behind someones back if I could not say it to their face but thats just me and Pakistani culture is such that everyone is so interconnected they let alot of stuff slide and everyone LIES so it really is like a dog chasing it’s own tail in families as much as I have seen.
    As far as the Canadian girl being married in Canada and going to marry a Pakistani man I don’t know how she got away with that.I don’t feel sorry for the Pakistani guy because obviously he was looking for a one way ticket to Canada to immigrate.I used to feel sorry for the Paki guys but not anymore because I understand what they r doing and women r getting hurt.The girl u r speaking of could not have been married I doubt because I could not imagine her parents doing that because in Pakistan when 2 people marry it is 2 families joining together so that story sounds really fishy to me.There must be more to it.Chances are if I am guessing right she married him might not have told about the child until after marriage he got pissed off and refused to immigrate him to Canada so he divorced her.To me that would sound more accurate but who knows.I don’t see a Pakistani man ever giving up his free one way ticket out of Pakiland though to be honest but who knows.

    Ana,

    I was being totally serious.There is nothing in Pakistan that is modern at all.Even they use Chinese style brooms/small sticks and walk around like a duck(reminds me of the quack quack song squating and walking around flapping your hands singing the duck song.lol)I am fat so yeah not happening.The kitchen when I first married my husband took me in the kitchen and pointed to the stove and told me to cook.It was a coleman camper stove like what we use here in USA for outdoor camping I started crying and walked away.Their fridge was and still to this day is sooooooo grossssss.My mother inlaw keeps that nasty thing on room temp because she don’t want a big electric bill and when u open it the smell is soooo gross not to mention the thing is soo old looking not modern at all.It’s mind blowing.Oh then u have roaches and ants all over everything.I thought it was just my inlaws but pretty much every home I went to same problem.I guess it because the population is so large and the homes are connected.I really don’t know.The last time I was in Pakistan I refused to stay in the inlaws home and stayed in the back home.I didn’t have a roach problem but i did spray and put roach chalk everywhere.I did become ill most of my trip and ended up not being able to clean the kids room and when i became well enough I went in the kids room and OMG is all I can say my crazy nasty cowife let the rabit stay in the room with the kids and it pooped everywhere.On the floor on the bed and her and the kids were sleeping in that nasty mess.I was livid to say the least.I don’t know what her problem was but she would not even clean up after her own kids.It was beyond crazy to me.
    I would have never let it get that way but I had a double lung infection could not breathe correctly and was coughing up blood.
    Believe it or not there are some really beautiful places in Pakistan and some homes are really beautiful.My inlaws home is really nice and really hugeeee but my MIL refuses to hire servants and the girls are lazy so stuff really doesn’t get done the way it should.Oh get this my MIL buys me a stove with oven(normal one)I go to turn the oven on to bake some chicken all excited and my cowife ask me what I am doing.I said I am going to bake some chicken for dinner in the oven.I notice as I go to turn it on the knobs are different than american numbers so I ask her if she knows where 350 would be and she said she don’t know she never used it.I said U NEVER USE IT she said no she don’t know how to use it and mice live in it.I go to husband tell him and he comes and gets the mice out and I am screaming up on the counter like a crazy person(scared of mice).My mother inlaw comes in screams at hubby and me and ask why i am screaming we have neighbors.I start screaming at her why she buy this oven if she is just going to house mice in it.Then she starts screaming at my cowife why mice are in the oven and then we all r screaming it’s like crazyville there for me.Oh here is something funny my American sister inlaw comes walking in because she hears us all screaming in the kitchen and she is right in the middle of the kitchen and ask what I am doing on the cabinet.Right when i tell her there is mice in the oven here they come running out.Man in one second she sees the mice and next she is beside me up on the cabinet screaming her bloody head off and my MIL and cowife are looking at us like we done lost our minds.hahahhaahahah
    I have so many crazy stories of that place.lol

  • baseema

    February 10, 2016
    Gail, I don’t think you understand. The Pakistani Canadian woman hid her out of wedlock child. She pretended to be a virgin marrying a Pakistani guy who was studying in the UK. She was never divorced until he found out her lies, then he divorced her. But she didn’t care, she never talked to him nor did she want to be with him. My guess is whoever the father of her baby, is the one she is in love with, in Canada. Probably someone NOT Pakistani.

    And I hear you on the food and running to the store every day. It is so crazy to me too, they keep no food in the house! Only that day’s food. SO weird. I keep at least a month’s worth stocked up too. It would drive me crazy to go to the store every day. But I guess if you want fresh food, you don’t have transportation to carry the food, or room to store it, etc etc…if we lived there, we would probably understand it better.

  • Omer

    February 10, 2016
    Gail,

    I know the rules in European Countries probably in the middle of the teen age, boy/girl have their rights to do whatever they want. Its the difference in culture. We Muslims are thought to respect their parents in any condition and obey them, well even though in some cases people go against the will of their parents and do love marriage. They don’t need to get permission from the entire family they just whatever they want. Second condition you had a GF and u like her you had a longterm relation with her. You tell your parents just to show them respect in getting opinion from them (not the final decision). In this case what i witnessed you had a successful relationship without any stress or depressions.(Forcing any girl from Pakistan/Europe or any other things seems to me a revenging behavior from a family and seems that they never think you to be the part in the family and not ready to accept someone.

    The second comments about the cloths, food and roti :D are very true, wasting time in getting things on daily basis are common practice in the women, but you will find mostly in uneducated families or villagers. In some families where the women goes to some job, every facility is there in the house , cook , driver servant and laundries etc.This is not the average pakistani person life i must say.

  • anabellah

    February 9, 2016

    KIM,

    I am so very happy for you. You did the right thing by getting rid of him. It doesn’t matter how handsome, charming or smart he is, he is just not worth it. Be grateful that you was given the strength and good sense to walk away. Good for you. Whatever you do, don’t get weak and fall backwards. You have to keep it moving. Stay away from foreign men. Keep it easy. If you read Gail’s most recent posts to Omer, you know cultures don’t blend. Keep it simple. Marriage is difficult enough without adding other variables.

  • anabellah

    February 9, 2016

    Gail,

    I don’t think you were trying to be funny, but your post made me almost die laughing when you described how it is when you visit Pakistan. Oh, my goodness….Tears of joy

    On a serious note, I was just thinking today about how educated and uneducated people just aren’t on the same page. Uneducated people don’t process information the same. It like talking with someone from another planet. It is bizarre to say the least.

  • anabellah

    February 9, 2016

    baseema,

    I’ve heard stories such as it before – about women who pretended to be virgins or were not, but had their hymen sewn up so to appear to be a virgin. It’s unbelievable. It used to be the tradition way back when, in some tribal counties or another that after the wedding night, the husband would come out and show the community a bloody rag of the blood from him having broken in the wife’s hymen. The crap that people go through SMH Wouldn’t you think it would be personal, between the husband and wife and Allah?

  • KIM

    February 9, 2016
    One more thing, I am a single mom of 1 and a black woman. He’s shown me many friends of his that love black women and have gotten married. I just couldn’t let myself believe it after reading this site. AGAIN…I’m SO grateful fore you all!
  • KIM

    February 9, 2016
    Hello Everyone,

    I just wanted to say again how grateful I am for this site! All of the stories and responses have given me the confidence I need to stay in a relationship that I was thinking was just too good to be true. The man I dates (after meeting online dating website) posed as a Christian man having been in the US for 30yrs of his life. He was divorced from a (Pakistani)lady who remains in NY. He says they met through a mutual friend who knew she was from the home country and community & they married in NY. He wanted desperately to get married even after talking only 2months after meeting. He was VERY persistent and would NOT introduce me to his family…?weird & RED FLAG #1 SO many red flags that I just could not go on. Usually, as women we get a gut feeling that something is not right or doesn’t add up. BUT a lot of the time we override that feeling because he is SO freaking charming and gorgeous. I mean gorgeous eyes, skin, voice, accent, and very manly…oh and super smart!!! I loved this dude, but I loved myself more. The more I held him at bay the more he seemed to not hold his story together. I eventually broke it off with him, but man do I miss him, I almost wanna call him…like really bad. BUT I read every one of these posts and I am thankful that I am strong enough to stay away. !!!WARNING!!! To ALL the ladies who feel like your beautiful Pakistani man you met online is the exception…I’m sorry, HE ISN’T!!!

    All the best to you ladies in your search for true love!

  • Gail

    February 9, 2016
    Omer,

    U make it sound like love can conquer all but that is just not the truth in most cases.When u have different cultures and u go to merge both cultures into one it is not an easy thing to do.
    Most people r naive before marriage and are blind to the fact that it will take alot of work to make a mix marriage work esp when u toss children into the mix.
    Never mind religion issues culture issues are the hardest to deal.Obviously a European women is going to speak her mind and get angry faster because she comes from a culture that allows her to speak her mind and be treated as a real equal and not a servant to her husband and his family.
    For me personally I could never take orders from my mother inlaw because I am educated and she isn’t to be frank.I find her way of thinking very bazaar to be honest and want no part of it.I expect when I am in Pakistan that I should be catered to because it is not my natural environment.I mean really should I be expected to cook for a family of 30 and make Roti from scratch(which I don’t know how to make or have any desire to learn how to make it)? Also why should I wash my own clothes when my inlaws have only a washer and a ringer then have to hang them on a line.It is an all day event that seems crazy to me.They let clothes pile up all week and then wash and I find that gross and nasty to be frank and don’t want any part of that.In USA I wash my clothes daily and I have a brand new washer and dryer and I never have mountains of dirty clothes just laying around.In my home in USA I stock all my food.I always have at least a months worth of food in my home and in Pakistan they go daily for food.Again I don’t get that as I find it a huge waste of time when u have so many people living in the home u have to feed daily.I can go on and on and on but u get the point.Everyone sees me strange and I see them strange from day one.
    I should mention when I am in Pakistan I rarely eat with the family.I either get take out pizza,subway,chicken burgers,red onion,bread and butter or I cook my own American food.I just can’t stomach the watery spicy soupy crap every meal.Also my children and I drink out of paper cups as well simply because they leave soap on their dishes.I am laughing as I say this as it comes across as I am a pampered princes but living an average Pakistani life sucks and is hard and I don’t want any part of it when i am there.

  • Gail

    February 9, 2016
    Omer,

    I am curious u said u did a love marriage.Listen what people think in the west as a love marriage is still very different form the Pakistani point of view of a love marriage.U had to go through your family to marry your wife am I correct?In America we don’t have to get approval from anyone.Yes it is nice if the parents or family like the spouse in USA but it is not mandatory like in Pakistan.Also I give u an example I have 3 sister inlaws that married outside the family to 3 brothers in one family.They all claim they did love marriage but really it was arranged marriage by definition since my mother inlaw arranged the marriages.My sister inlaws didn’t know the men before marrying them.Same with my youngest sister inlaw she married outside the family but again it was arranged and she didn’t know the man before her marriage.I think it will be a very long time before Pakistan families back off and let their children truly pick their own spouses and do love marriages.I want to say clear I am not against arranged marriages because from what I have seen they work out ok for the most part.I am just telling u what I have personally witnessed in Pakistan.Then u get into different religious sects as u know.Sunni and Shia marriages etc… that people frown against for obvious reasons as well.

  • Omer

    February 9, 2016
    Anabella, thank you for a welcome gesture.Appreciate your thoughts about not comparing the religions with the persons or nationalities.
  • Omer

    February 9, 2016
    Gail,

    I agree that the odds 60-70% odds are worst and mostly done by some bad people and the overall image goes to that side. Well let me correct you at one point, i am also from Pakistan. Doing Love marriages in Pakistan are common now excluding the fact in (family and cousins). Couples get’s married (College friends, Univ Friends). I got married last 3 months ago. I had a love marriage with 5 years of relations .

    The other point is that if the girl or women can adjust her in the environment of her’s husband family. If she loves her truly she will do every thing she can, but if she’s short tempered or something like that, both will destroy the relations.

  • Gail

    February 8, 2016
    Baseema,

    Yeah this happens but is not common as far as I know.Normally with the women that our divorced to my knowledge they tell the prospective mans family and any children will remain with the girls parents to be raised or the children go to the father.
    Normally if a Pakistani women has immigrated to a European country her family will be able to remarry her.They just dangle her foreign citizenship in front of the man and his family like a carrot from what I have seen.
    The older Pakistan people refuse to chill out and leave their kids alone to make their own life choices so u end up getting alot of lying and deceit that goes on.

  • baseema

    February 8, 2016
    Hello everyone! I know of one case where the woman tricked the man. She was a Canadian Pakistani immigrant. She married her Pakistani husband to be, who was living in the UK, and studying, at the time. They both traveled to Pakistan, had the wedding, spent a few weeks together, then they returned back-she to Canada and he to UK.

    Well, she had acted like she was a virgin after this wedding, fighting him really bad on the wedding night (according to my friend who was asked for advice) but then they seemed to be getting along well after a week or so, but skip to a few months later, over time, she wasn’t filling out the papers to bring him to Canada.

    Finally, he got the answers out of her. The little 2 year old girl “cousin” with her during the wedding was actually a daughter she had out of wedlock! Her parents forced her into marriage with this guy, and he and his family had no idea about any of it. LOL Talk about shocked!!

    Long story short, they eventually divorced. He left UK to go back to Pakistan, and she remained in Canada.

  • Gail

    February 8, 2016
    Eski2016,

    I am happy u figured out what was going on.It makes me feel great to know your eyes are open.Don’t worry about that guy u can’t change him he is what he is just move on and enjoy your life free from the drama.

  • Eski2016

    February 8, 2016
    Well said Ana!
  • anabellah

    February 8, 2016

    Omer, Welcome and thank you for commenting

    Gail pretty much summed up to you how I feel, as well. These men know that they have arranged marriages and they know their families don’t accept polygamy, so why take advantage of foreign women for personal gain? It is wrong. They need to stick with their cousin marriages and culture and not be greedy at the expense of harming others. These men claim to be Muslim. It’s not what Muslims should do – don’t follow desires. Don’t injure others knowingly. It would be different if they wanted to marry the foreign women to protect and maintain them and work together as a team with the intent to stay married. It’s not what they do most of the time when they get involved with foreigners. They take foreigners for a ride and for everything that they can get from them. Muslims are to be kind and just to all of mankind. But, then again, we’re talking culture when it comes to Pakistani men and not Islam.

  • anabellah

    February 8, 2016

    Eski2016,

    You don’t know how happy I am that you learned the truth, and didn’t follow your desires. Don’t feel foolish. You are one of the smart ones. Be grateful to your Creator that he saved you from what could have been one of the biggest and worse mistakes of your life. It should be a good lesson for you that will prepare you to go forward to meet a man who is worth your time and trouble. Please know that there is no Prince Charming or Knight in Shining Armory who will whisk you up and carry you away so that you could live happily ever-after. Get rid of the fairy-tales. We all have bumps and bruises in life. Learn from it and keep it moving. Don’t let it make you jaded. It’s all good. I’m glad we could be of help. It’s what we are here for.

  • Eski2016

    February 8, 2016
    I am 100% believer! Thanks Ladies!! I am so thankful I found this site! The guy I was talking to for four months was all just a lie! And I just found out this morning. I was more furious when I found out Sam had been avoiding me for the past 10 days. Everything he had say were all lies. I post a comment on his facebook. I dont know why he hasnt deleted me..dunno know why? Only he “muted” me.
  • Gail

    February 7, 2016
    Omar,

    I agree maybe not all r the same but in all honesty with odds like 60% -70% thats pretty bad odds for a foreign women to be taking such a risk with her life don’t u agree? Even lets say she gets a decent Pakistani man still u have problems like culture and religion issues that are so difficult if not impossible to overcome as well.Then u bring children into the mix man it gets depressing fast when u try to blend cultures.All I am trying to express the road is a very hard road for foreign women to deal with and most will end up with anxiety or depression and will fail to enjoy their lives so why go there and create so much tension in ones life for no real reason.
    Again we all know that Pakistani people do not do love marriages as their families arrange their marriages mainly with cousins.I do believe however that say an american women would be fine to marry a European man as they have basically the same culture and way of living and religion background.So I am not against all foreign marriages.

  • Omer

    February 7, 2016
    Well, your topics seems to be interesting. I agree with the all topic description but to mention one thing there are majority 65-70% of the people like that.Not all the same.
  • Eski2016

    February 5, 2016
    Yes, I won’t disagree with you there. LOL
  • anabellah

    February 5, 2016

    Eski2016,

    You (Canada) has a handsome Prime Minister now. The US has a handsome president; although the presidency has taken a toll on his appearance. He’s still handsome though LOL

  • Eski2016

    February 5, 2016
    Again much thanks ladies! XX’s. I am a Canadian. 😊
  • Gail

    February 4, 2016
    Ana,

    I agree it’s funny how u change as u get older and wiser.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2016
    Eski2016,

    Your welcome happy u r seeing the reality of what is going on.U hang in there and be patient and G.D will send u the right person.I totally understand getting caught up in dreamland I did the same thing myself and as Ana stated I would imagine the majority if not all women are guilty of it to some degree and why not we grow up dreaming of Prince Charming.
    Listen u have to be careful with foreign men so please please consider staying in your own culture for your own sake.I don’t know if u r a muslim or not but as with any religion people can say the are anything but that don’t mean they live it simply because culture is so ingrained in peoples minds.If u decide to marry outside of your culture research it completely and understand everything u can about that particular culture is my sincere advice.Things u should be looking for is DO they do Cousin marriages,What are their thoughts about your particular country(Do they think your country women are whores etc..) Do the women in that particular country accept Polygamy(I know for a fact Pakistani women don’t accept it they will deal it but never accept it esp if u r foreign wife so that makes things complicated)Hope this helps.

  • Eski2016

    February 4, 2016
    I am so glad I found this site. It really opened my eyes/mind. I guess I just really wanted myself and this guy to because “us”, to really happen as he made me forget about reality and he made everything about me and us. How he planned about our future, having kids, and all that. And I thought he loved me. For four whole months. 💔😔 But thank you ladies. This did really opened my eyes.
  • anabellah

    February 4, 2016

    Gail,

    Many women are in love with the concept of love. They get lost in a fairy-tale world made up in their heads. They live in their heads. I know what you’re talking about when you said you met your husband after talking a year with him on the internet and your feelings for him were different once you met him face to face. When I was non-Muslim and out there dating, I’d talk with someone on the phone or got set up on a blind date. I thought I had good feelings about the person, but as soon as I saw the person those feeling vanished. It happens. Women need to start living in the real world. I guess the same as I had to experience it for myself, others must as well. I thank Allah it didn’t go as far as marriage.

    You are a fortunate one You have a child by your husband and you’ve adopted his children. You’ve got his parents living with you, as well. It doesn’t appear he has any intention of leaving you. Your marriage isn’t ideal, but there aren’t any that are. Imagine marrying one of those losers; he get a visa/Green Card; and he kicks you to the curb, give you the boot, throw you out like you’re a piece of trash. I;d imagine it would mess me up for life, had it happened to me. I suppose for some it’s just their fate. Some people just can’t heed warning.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2016
    Eski2016,

    U better listen to the warnings otherwise u r going to pay dearly.He has already made his intentions clear to u he wants a visa(Don’t be daft).Now he has blocked u or not talked to u for a week on top of that.I mean what more do u need? This is going to sound harsh but u really need to GROW UP before u end up getting into something u r going to loose your mental health and possibly physical health over.
    U don’t meet someone on the computer and know them BELIEVE ME! I did what u r doing so I know.I chatted with my husband for a year online before flying to pakistan and marrying him.What I had built up in my mind about him mentally was just false.Even when I met him I didn’t feel the same way towards him for awhile.Putting a face and life to the internet person was very different in real life.So if u do this be prepared when u do meet him u may very well have strange feelings like they may change in a weird way.
    I really suggest u since he has mentioned Visa which we all know is a lie because u can go to Pakistan and meet him alot easier than u applying for him a visa(which by the way he Embassy is not going to give u because u have never met him and Embassy knows this scam of Pakistani and foreign men using American and European women to scam them for a visa and as Shadia clearly stated get the ignorant American Whore to fund the visa and his trip etc…
    They think of us as Whores/loose women and u can’t really dispute that in their minds because there women do not sit and chat on the internet and hook up with men.It is not in there culture to do that so women that sit on the net looking for a man is just a cheap Whore looking to be exploited.Again these people do not do love marriages they do Arranged cousin marriages the huge majority of them.If that is not a huge light bulb going off I don’t know.Also u better understand Pakistani women don’t accept Polygamy and when u r dealing with her being a cousin well it is very rare that Foreign wife doesn’t end up divorced.
    In my case I have a biological son with my husband and I adopted his two children from his first marriage and have raised them since birth etc..but I am the exception not the rule and my life has been anything but a picnic.

  • Shadia

    February 4, 2016
    @@ Eski …take heed to these warnings because these Pak men are very cunning. Visa process cost money and his excuse would be he has none or not enough and you will have to pay. Western Union and Money Gram would become your new place of business. Do not let your heart rule your head.
  • anabellah

    February 4, 2016

    Hope that he blocked you. Maybe when you asked him if he wanted you for a visa he knew you were going to be a problem and he went on to look for the next one that would be easier or already found one.

  • Eski2016

    February 4, 2016
    I am so cofused. I want to believe everything I have read on this site & I really want to believe this guy. There is not a day where I can’t stop thinking about him. I guess I am already there (Trapped)? We have not ever met but his words (voice) lingers in my head. But what scared me was when he asked me to be his wife…and this was only two months of msging and texting. And ask about if I ever wanted kids. But he has never ever asked for money from me, but only a Visa sponsorship and that was it. I also confronted him if it was only for Visa and he no. Only because he wants to meet with me. But I havent heard from him since last week friday & now Im starting to think he blocked me? No idea..??
  • anabellah

    February 4, 2016

    Esk2016,

    It is not real. By no means and in no way is it real. It is an illusion. You are not the exception to the rule. Don’t fall into his trap. Learn from those who came before you.

  • Eski2016

    February 4, 2016
    Gail, I don’t find this is a game. I only wanted answers…& I wanted me and this guy to be real, as I am fond of him? And he know’s that. I was more open to him then he was to me. I couldn’t get the answers from him so I had to ask if this was real between us meaning me & this guy.
  • Gail

    February 3, 2016
    Eski2016,

    I am Gail welcome to the blog.I am married to a Punjabi and I read your comments.U have to be crazy after reading the blog and thinking this guy is crazy about u.Look my husband did the same thing.We met via internet and I broke it off with him for a month and would not reply his messages and he contacted 2 of my friends trying to get in contact with me.U come across in your writings like this is some game to u but I can assure u it is no game and if u walk down this road u better get ready to enter at the least a life of Polygamy or divorce.Pakistani people do not marry for love they have arranged marriages so get your head out of the clouds is my advice and come back to earth.U said u researched well i can tell u all the research in the world is not going to prepare u for the hole u r digging yourself.

  • Eski2016

    February 2, 2016
    Kim, “Give him another chance?” :/
  • Eski2016

    February 2, 2016
    Thanks Kim & Anabellah :)
  • anabellah

    February 1, 2016

    KIM,

    The way to go I’m so happy to hear you got up out of that relationship before it was too late

  • KIM

    February 1, 2016
    DO NOT beat yourself up too badly. It was a lesson learned. I am extremely discerning and fell for it. When I tell you these men study for hours on how to prey upon women just to deceive them…..I make NO exaggeration!!! They are experts at it. They work in groups and coach each other how to go about what to say and whom to look for (what type of women). You are still smart and a good person. The fact that you even raised the question let’s you know you are aware that it isn’t right.
    The point of pride & hope that you and I share is that we woke up to the deception BEFORE MARRIGE! Please RUN!!!! Just as all of the women on this site have implored all to do. Feel the emotions of let down and disappointment, but Sweetheart——PLEASE DON’T LOOK BACK & CHANGE YOUR MIND TO “GIVE HIM ANOTHER CHANCE…”
  • Eski2016

    February 1, 2016
    Again Thank you :) Wish it wasn’t true..but I guess it is.
  • anabellah

    February 1, 2016

    Eski20016

    You’re not alone in being gullible. Who wouldn’t want the fairy-tale? I’ve been there and done that too. Many of us get caught up out there chasing a dream.

  • Eski2016

    February 1, 2016
    Thank you for replying Ana..I guess I just needed to hear it from someone then thinking it. Yes he is a Pakistani (Sialkot). He even started talking (txting) one of my friends, begging her to help him come here & that he would pay her so he can meet me. His charming words and good looks got to me I guess? I am so gullible…
  • anabellah

    February 1, 2016

    Eski2016,

    You called it right. You are just in a “fantasy land”. I can say it based on all I’ve leaned on this blog. The type of male that you’re dealing with on the internet is searching for a meal ticket out of the country that he is in. He’s found you. I’m assuming he’s in Pakistan. If things don’t workout between you and him, I bet my last dollar (figure of speech) that he would be on the internet tomorrow, pledging his undying love to another woman. You said you find that he loves you and wants to marry you to be way too fast. It’s a smart woman that you are. You see the red flag. Yeah, he wants to marry you alright – for visa/citizenship. Does he love you? He’ll pretend to love you until he gets what he wants (a green card). He’ll probably then drop you like a hot potato. He’ll go marry his cousin, if he isn’t already married to her or will go find another hottie who he really wants to be with. Do you see the picture? It happens all the time with those men.

    You said you want to believe him. I suppose you do. Most women want a husband who is head over hills in love with them and say they can’t live with out them. Don’t fall for the okie doke. I suggest you say your goodbyes to him immediately and DON’T hook up with another one of them. Cut all ties with him completely. Stop letting him fill your head with bullsh!t. Thank your Creator for saving you from a catastrophic marriage.

  • Eski2016

    February 1, 2016
    Here goes nothing….
    I am such a observer and a reseacher…but I have been wanting answers for awhile now. I am Canadian and I have met this guy (younger) Punjabi male, well he found me through Facebook. I want to believe everything he tells me. How much he likes “Loves” me. We hav been talking for about close to 4 months. And he has been asking me to go visit him to his home but I refuse to leave as I am afraid to leave my home…esp alone. And he would love to come to where I am residing but the problem is he doesn’t have a Visa. And I am a bit scared to apply, for he might not be what he be honest of being “in love” with me. I dont know how else to say what I’m thinging…but he says he “Loves” me. And wants to Marry me. But I find it way too fast. I mean we have never met & he keeps wanting to meet my Parents. Am I just in a fantasy land?
  • anabellah

    January 25, 2016

    Gail,

    It’s absolutely appalling what is happening. It has to be of epidemic proportion in which it happens. I agree that she needs to report him to immigration, if she is in the US. I hope she is wise and divorce him as soon as possible. It’s very sad.

  • Gail

    January 25, 2016
    Spirited,

    I couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Shadia,

    I forgot to mention I am also married to Pakistani man 12 yrs and he also used me for a visa and greencard and citizenship.He was married to his cousin I was an idiot didn’t know the culture at first and bought in to him being divorced hook line and sinker.I figured out 2 years into the marriage something was off but he would never admit to it.I had got a job working in the OBGYN medical field at a new clinic in a new city and I had a newborn baby so I didn’t have time to really think to much on what he was doing.Now looking back I can see everything clearly.Sorry u got into this mess! Hugssss… Warn other women to not mix up with these creeps.

  • Gail

    January 25, 2016
    Ana,

    That is the the first time i have heard of a women going to Pakistan and marrying a man and not meeting his family boy oh boy(shaking my head here).This is the problem women have no idea and I mean no idea how Pakistani or Southeast Asian culture is so and the American(assuming Shadia is American) Culture is anything goes is killing American women when they go and marry these men without knowing about the culture.She needs to report him to immigration that she believes he married her for a greencard esp… if she comes to find out he is married.

  • anabellah

    January 25, 2016

    Ooops, I just realized I had deleted Spirited’s post earlier by mistake. I put it back. This cellphone is so annoying.

  • Gail

    January 25, 2016
    Shadia,

    From what u have said this man seems to be married.Ho in the world did u travel to Pakistan and not meet his family?Where did u stay? I am so confused about your story? Please elaborate more.If u went to Pakistan and didn’t meet his family u better be figuring out what is going on because most Pakistani people r cool to let their sons marry for greencards so what u r saying sounds like he is married.If u go and try to file his case and he has a registered marriage u r going to be out all that money.Also he is using u straight up.U don’t marry a Pakistani man and not meet his family esp his parents it is just not done.Straight up he used u I have no doubt in my mind.Do not send that leach one more penny and don’t bother to immigrate him because he will just get his greencard and divorce u or worse yet string u along and until some young girl comes along and demands he divorces u and he will.Just chalk it up to lesson learned and don’t mix up with Pakistani men is my advice

  • anabellah

    January 24, 2016

    Spirited, Welcome back, Sis

    I missed you so. I thought you were back long ago and you forgot about me/us. It’s good to have you back. I’m so glad you spoke to Shadia about what to do. She’s really in a bad situation. So many women are being hurt. There needs to be more information out there online about awareness to help educate women on the problems they could encounter from seeking love online.

    Insha Allah, I’ll be back to finish reading. I’ve got a lot going on right now. Insha Allah, I’ll share it with everyone, but it may take several weeks. It’s very good news.

  • Spirited

    January 24, 2016
    Salaam, always a lively topic this one :D

    @Shadia, PLEASE leave that “marriage” right away. Yes I put the word in quotes because you’re not a wife to him, you’re a visa ticket. I come from a Pakistani background (all the previous generation in my family immigrated from Pakistan). Even being of Pakistani descent, I was also used for a visa. These men don’t care.

    In your case especially, you’re older than him by quite a bit (as a Pakistani male would see it), you’ve hooked up before marriage (which I’m taking to mean pre-marital sex) which is not usually something that a Pakistani man does with a woman he intends to keep as a wife and present to his family, which is also another reason he has not introduced you to his family because he has no intentions of being with you after his precious visa is in his hands. Well, unless he strings you along for a few more years to get himself settled in your country first, and then he’d be rid of you or marry someone he really wants as a wife. For all you know, he’s already married. The Facebook chatting (or dating website flirting) is typical behavior for them to get a fish on their line and hook a visa ticket out of Pakistan.

    DO file for divorce, DO NOT file any immigration paperwork, DO NOT go to visit him again. Put this experience behind you and keep in mind for the future, don’t take any Pakistani man seriously if he isn’t a citizen of your country or at least a legal resident. It’s not worth the devastation their extreme selfishness causes. I recommend warning other women you might know who are falling into this trap as well. I certainly do.

    @Jasmina, I was born a muslim and I thought the same thing, rofl.

  • jasmina

    January 24, 2016
    Ana
    i was the same when i first converted and for another 10 years. i thought all muslims were good people and truthful. i was very naive too.
  • anabellah

    January 23, 2016

    Shadia,

    It would be sooo good if you could run or fly away from your husband, far, far away. I know it can’t be easy for you. You and he are married now. You’ve invested a lot of time and feelings in him. I’m sure you love him.

    Nonetheless, he is bad news. He is no good for you. Men like him play on the vulnerability of women. It is so sad. They say all the things that just about EVERY woman wants to hear. It seems to the woman that he is a dream come true. They think God has answered their prayer. It not real though. It’s all memorex. It’s like a recording. They’ve rehearsed what to say. Their words are like rain water falling from their lips. They probably tell their Pakistani friends what to say to sway the woman and bring her under his charm. So, please, don’t believe for a second that he is sincere.

    There were others here who were older than the Pakistani men whom they were intended to or married to. Based on what I’ve learned here on the blog, Pakistani men tend to go for younger women, not older ones. I don’t know if you have kids by another man, he doesn’t want them either. Furthermore, if he is popping off at the mouth every chance that he gets, asking you to get his visa and give him money, you know exactly what it’s about. He’s all about coming to America and getting the money and resources that he need for himself and his family back home. Chances are, you will never be his family. You’re just a meal ticket. You’re only a ticket to “the promised land.” More times than not, they eventually go back to Pakistan and marry a cousin or meet someone else in the States that they really want to be with and divorce the woman who brought who love him and went through hell and high waters to bring him here.

    I suggest you NOT buy what he’s selling. You have to find a way to be strong and leave him. He means you absolutely no good.

  • Shadia

    January 23, 2016
    I am currently married to a PAKISTANI man who is over 15 years my junior. We met on FB although we had no friends in common. He kept writing me asking to be his friend. At the time I had currently broken up with my ex and had no desire to jump into another relationship. Despite my rejections MR. Pak kept persisting with his charms and promises of true love and lifetime commitment and I fell in his trap. He immediately started asking about visa to come to America so he can work and earn a living to provide for us. He was rejected for visit visa. He then requested that we get married and for me to come to him. We met and we got married after a few times of hooking up. My marriage is a secret to his family. I kept asking him when will he tell his family about me and he told me after he moves to America. After reading your site I am ready to run if not fly as far away from this man. He appears innocent but he is very conniving and deceitful always requesting expensive items and money on a regular basis.
  • anabellah

    January 22, 2016

    It’s all about each person’s desires. They follow lusts and desires. Allah says one who is moved by desire has a diseased heart. Allah says it, not me.

  • anabellah

    January 22, 2016

    Sadia,

    You’re right. It’s not Islam, but I haven’t heard anything about Pakistan and many Pakistani people that is Islam. I’ve learned so much about “Muslim” from all over the planet just by being here on this blog. When I first became Muslim, I thought all Muslim were trying to live Islam the way I wanted to. I had a thirst for knowledge. I read all kinds of books about Islam. I have a library full of Islamic books that I spent a lot of money on over the years. Now, I just read the Quran. I quickly found out that I was very naive. I had thought I wanted to live in a “Muslim Country” when I first became Muslim. I definitely don’t want it now. No way, Jose. I’ll stay my bottom right where it is. Thank you very much.

    No one is teaching the true Islam. The Muslim men who are supposed to protect and maintain women are doing a piss poor job. Woman are more vocal about their own protection, and trying to get treated properly. The very men who are supposed to protect and maintain women are oppressing them and being unjust to them. They went back to living pre-Islamic times, before the days of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and is calling it Islam.

    It is soooo necessary for Muslim women to start learning their Islam, and not rely on anyone to tell them what it is about, especially not scholars and some Imams et. al who are perpetuating the subservient status of women.

    When it comes to taking a person’s word that he or she is Muslim, we have to investigate – not superficial stuff like if they smoke a cigarette or wear a beard or burka etc. I mean get down to the real nitty gritty of what they believe (what we should believe is the word of God in the Quran).

    Allah tells us to investigate. A person can be anything he or she wants to be on the internet. Pakistani men want a way out of Pakistan, and want to get what they can, any way they can get it to support themselves and their families in Pakistan. They don’t give diddly friggen squat about a foreign woman for love. It’s all about the do re me Money Pile

  • Shadia

    January 22, 2016
    I totally agree to stay away from online hook ups especially with a Pakistani man because it can be very devastating when found out that you are being used for visa or money. When I confront him he blatantly denies it yet before he can end the conversation he hints about a rush on visa process, needing money or requesting something that cost hundreds of US dollars. This is not Islam for a husband to be using his wife for material gain.
  • ummof4

    January 22, 2016
    As-Salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    BULLETIN! NEWS FLASH! TO ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE!

    GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE CLOUDS AND STOP THINKING THAT YOU CAN FIND TRUE LOVE ON THE INTERNET! (YES, YOU KNOW OF ONE FRIEND WHO FOUND HER TRUE LOVE ON LINE, SO YOU BELIEVE IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU TOO, LOL)

    USE YOUR FAMILY (IF THEY ARE SANE AND REASONABLE ACCORDING TO ISLAM) AND FRIENDS TO HELP YOU FIND A HUSBAND. GO TO SINGLES EVENTS WITH YOUR WALEE (THEY HAVE THEM IN THE US). FREQUENT ISLAMIC EVENTS WHERE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCOPE OUT POTENTIAL HUSBANDS AND HAVE YOUR WALEE INQUIRE ABOUT THEM.

    STOP MARRYING STRANGERS THAT YOU ONLY KNOW FROM ONLINE! IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU ARE A NEW REVERT TO ISLAM OR HAVE BEEN MUSLIM ALL YOUR LIFE!

    NOTE: I UNDERSTAND THAT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE IN LOVE WITH THE CONCEPT OF LOVE AND BELIEVE ROMANCE NOVELS AND DISNEY AND LIFETIME MOVIES ARE REAL, THIS IS A DIFFICULT PILL TO SWALLOW.

  • anabellah

    January 22, 2016

    Shadia, Welcome

    So, you got caught up out there with one of those persons. At least you know what you’re dealing with. What more can you do, but tell him to knock it off and leave you alone about the visa. Say no to the expensive gifts and money demands. Be grateful that you have eyes that can see he’s, as Maria2 would say, a “gimme” type person. I don’t know your exact circumstances. Too bad you just can’t unload that loser, as in get rid of him; divorce him. I suggest you not fall asleep on him. Recognize him for what he is and REMEMBER it. You have enough to read about some of those men on this post/thread. If you have any more questions, God willing, don’t hesitate to ask. Perhaps others here have something to say to you, as well.

  • Shadia

    January 22, 2016
    I am being spun in a web of lies and deceit by a Pakistani man I am recently married to. I am sick of the constant visa requests and the expensive gifts or money demands. HELPPPPPPP
  • Gail

    January 14, 2016
    Lin,

    Ana is correct these men are con artist and they are looking fishing.I actually have called it that many times on the blog over the years.There Goal is to get a European woman so they can marry get the greencard or citizenship then divorce and go back and bring their cousin to their country.The families see the foreign woman as a whore and expendable.Also u need to understand something else.U being from South America I think Columbia is a poor country as compared to USA or Canada,Germany,France etc.. so it makes me wonder if he had more sinister plans for u.These men have been known to take women to Pakistan and sell them into Prostitution.U can youtube it.My point is these men r looking for big Fish so consider yourself lucky!

  • anabellah

    January 14, 2016

    If you are considering a Pakistani man to marry, you just may be looking for love in all the wrong places

  • anabellah

    January 14, 2016

    Lin,

    I’m just so very glad that you found out about him before it was too late and before you got in too deep. Thank your Creator for protecting you.

    Those men are professional con artists. He’ll just move on to the next vulnerable woman in hope of catching a fish that he can keep, and don’t have to throw back Sigh.

    I’d suggest you stay away from men that are from third world/underdeveloped/poor countries looking for a meal ticket out of their dire condition. You need to be with someone who can pull you up, not drag you down. Take a lesson from the story. It’s all good Be smarter next time.

  • Lin

    January 14, 2016
    Thanks Anabellah and Gail for your answers,

    I’m from Colombia in South America. Not sure whether he was looking for a greencard from me as he told me he was trying to move to Canada under a business visa and that he’d like to send me a visa when he settled there but then he said that he would come over to Colombia just for me because he couldn’t wait anymore to meet me and that I should tell my parents about it. I obviously wasn’t into that idea of him visiting me when he is a stranger but sort of tried to trap me with his sweet words. He ‘wanted’ to come over to Colombia, take me with him to Pakistan and then honeymoon in about 3-2 weeks of meeting him. Whatever he was planning to do, i don’t know why he wasted my time saying that crap all the time and why he couldn’t keep a friendship with me when I faced him with the truth, according to his cousin he has been engaged for six months.

    It’s a very complicated culture and I tried to keep my mind open, he even claims to be open minded but as soon as he told me to Block his cousin because I was only ‘his’ girlfriend I knew something was wrong.

  • Tasliyman

    January 12, 2016
    @Zafar107107

    Wow, I can imagine how shocked you must be reading the replies here when you were obviously hoping to find a very different answer.

    Although I can assure you that Gail and Ana knows what they are talking about. If you go through the old posts on this blog u will see that they are usually spot on.

    It’s a harsh reality to be faced with but at least you get a reality check before it’s too late.

    If you still believe that you are the exception to the rule [women can be very stubborn :-)], the very least you should do for yourself is to investigate and inspect the situation with the new knowledge you have at hand to make sure that you are not falling into the same trap that so many women before has. Read through the old posts and see if any of the warning signs are also present in your situation.

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    They are worse than pond scum
    :-( Although there probably is ONE that is the exception, not the rule

  • Gail

    January 12, 2016
    Lin,

    Thanks G.D u found out in time! I know not every woman will figure out they r being played and a normal reaction for most women is I am the exception not the rule and my man really loves me etc… I would say in the case of Pakistani men even if they love u SOOOOOO WHATTTT!! DO u wan the kind of love that someone lies to u hides a wife and kids behind your back,uses u for a greencard,Your inlaws and everyone knows but YOU! I mean this is the $hit reality if anyone mixes up with these men.

  • Gail

    January 12, 2016
    Zafar107107,

    Hi I am Gail and I read your Post.Listen u said the man was a farmer and normally that means he is poor.U have no idea and I seriously mean no idea what u r heading towards.First u don’t know if his wife is sick and It don’t matter because he has kids with her and more than likely she is his cousin and they live joint family which means he is living all his life with his wife and kids.Now u r crazier than Crazy if u think he is going to divorce his wife.Listen He may say he is not interested in immigration but that is an outright lie and I am dead serious.Look even on the remote chance he didn’t want to immigrate his kids and wife would push him for their families future.U r nothing more than a Whore with a free ticket for that family to USA.I am sorry I had to break it down like that but that is how Pakistani people view White Foreign Women for the most part.Secondly GIRLLLL Pakistani people don’t marry for love they have arranged marriages HELLOOOO!! This is not a new idea in Pakistan they have been doing this since the beginning of time.Third u are saying u have no interest in Polygamy knowing he is married and even if u did have interest I am 99% certain his wife would not go for Polygamy as well.She would deal it until he got a greencard out of u then she would tell him to get rid of u ASAP.I KNOW I KNOW u said he doesn’t want to leave his beloved Pakistan but open your eyes girl this is just a deception technique to get u to Pakistan and put u in a $hit condition and knowing that u yourself will scream Pakistan is to hard a place to live ORRR he will marry u then put pressure on u after marriage to file immigration so u and he can go to USA so he can work.
    Long story short u don’t know the culture and u r a different religion.I grew up Christian myself so I understand u and your mindset and I understand Pakistani men as well.I am telling u this is a set up and u better open your eyes.Another thing as well I am warning u being a foreign woman don’t go to Pakistan u can be sold very easy into prostitution.U don’t know this man personally.Pakistan is just not safe for foreign people right now.
    Again I want to say Pakistani people do not marry for love they have arranged marriages love comes after marriage understand.I am sorry but u r playing with FIRE and u will get burned if u continue down this path.

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    I think it is totally amazing that women could read the main thread/post above and still consider for marriage those con artist out there. They think they are the exception to the rule. REALLY???

    It’s crazy

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    Lin,

    It is completely true. It’s as real as real can get and real is real and the best thing yet. Just be grateful that you found out the real deal before it was too late. You didn’t fall for the okie doke. I suggest you stay away from foreign men and stick to your own kind. There is no perfect man or perfect marriage. You may go through the wringer with any man to a degree. What you stand to get from a foreign man may be more than you bargained for.

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    Zafar107107,

    Okay, so your boyfriend is married and he lives with his wife in Pakistan. He says he is “Muslim”. You live in the USA and say you are Christian. You two want to marry each other.

    He says his wife is ill and he doesn’t have sex with her. First, let me tell you. Probably the majority of married men whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, a non-denomination or whatever say they don’t have sex with their wives when they are trying to get with another woman. They say it to win the women whom they wants to be with. The men know that if they confess to their new sweetheart that they still have sex with their wives, regardless of how often, they’ve lost the women whom they want to get with. It’s over before it got started good.

    I’ve heard it all here on this blog and I’ve heard it when I was a non-Muslim from non-Muslims. Men lie to get what they want. They will say the wife is dumb, crazy stupid, psycho, dying from a chronic disease, smells, can’t take care of herself, is a hermit, or whatever to make the other woman think that he can’t leave her. He says she can’t take care of herself and he must stay with her forever. More than likely, he love his wife and wouldn’t leave her for all the tea in China.

    Let me ask you a question. How do you think you’d like it, if you were married; I don’t care if it was a “happy” marriage or not, and some woman hooks up with your husband, and tell him to divorce you? I don’t think you’d like it very much. So, why do you want to impose it on another woman?

    He is married and says he is Muslim, which means he could have more than one wife. Polygamy is permissible. He doesn’t have to get rid of his other wife to have you as a wife as well. For whatever reason, based on what you’ve told us, he doesn’t want to get rid of his wife.

    If you want to marry the man, put your Christian ways aside, marry the man and enter a polygamous marriage – you, he and his wife.

    If you can’t do it, if you want to remain Christian and don’t want to share, then go get yourself an American man who lives the American way. Get yourself a man who lives the way that you do.

    Why should the Pakistani man change his life for you? Is it because he loves you? Well, apparently, he loves his wife, as well. Furthermore, the same could go for you. Change your life for him because you love him. You’re trying to make something fit that can’t – Muslim and Christian. You’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. One has to let go of his or her way of life and go with the other. You can’t have it both ways.

    Gail, who is one of our blog family members here, is married to a Pakistani man who says he is Muslim. Although he says he is Muslim, he now lives monogamous and dances to Gail’s beat. Hello, is he Muslim or Muslim in name only?

    I suggest that you marry him and live a polygamous lifestyle or get to steppin – move on. Your broken heart will mend.

  • Lin

    January 11, 2016
    This must be completely true. I met a Pakistani man online who said he fell in love with me from the moment he saw me for ‘heart reasons’ and we would talk everyday, he would be so sweet and say he wants to spend his entire life with me that I ended up liking him a lot but then his cousin adds me and I found out about his engagement which he never told me about. He said that his mom was asking him to get married before he gets old, told me he only wants to marry one girl and that’s me but he never said he was engaged. I was suspicious and I found out the truth on time then when I asked him why he lied to me, he said he only felt pure love and denied everything. I told him his cousin told me this and then he said Ok I am liar, don’t text me anymore. I will live with your pictures and Don’t message my cousin. As if everything he told me just vanished the moment I found out.
  • anabellah

    January 11, 2016

    Zafar107107, Welcome.

    I’m sorry I didn’t approve your comment till now. It had gone into the spam queue so I had to fetch it out. It probably went there because of the numbers in your user name. Allah knows best. I’ll try to get back to chat with you.

  • Zafar107107

    January 11, 2016
    My boyfriend is Muslim lives in Pakistani I am from USA
    He tells me he loves me & in his heart we are married just not on paper but plans to when I fly to his home
    He is married, I ask him to divorce her but he says she is sick and what do I request to do with her
    So I feel sad about that he makes me sad
    He has four grown children
    Does not want to move to USA
    He is a farmer and tells me I can’t work when I marry him unless I wrk on farm or stay in home. Also tells me I can’t go out unless I’m fully covered but my face can be seen. But no other man allowed to see me. I am a Christain how is this going to work? I want him to divorce he says he’s not been in her bed for 7 years now due to her illness
    Should I just request divorce or call off wedding because my faith I don’t want a man with two wives. I am American woman and Christain faith we believe in not sharing even if she does bed him dres there n married to him still
    I’d be so jealous him around her
    But we’ve been together over 8 mths almost we love each other share each day talk almost hour on hour if possible a small text due to work but each morning n night we share n it never fails I’d miss him dearly if I had to cut him off and get him outs my life plz help me understand how to get him to understand I need him to divorce her and will our married work
    I feel heart broken.
  • Gail

    December 30, 2015
    Tasliman,

    Oh your welcome.Although I no longer practice polygamy I went through the Hell at the way Polygamy came into my life and the lies that came along with it.I feel compelled to stay with the blog just to help other woman that come that have married foreign men and all the issues that go with a mix marriage.It helps me mentally to explain to other women and tell them my story so that if they find themselves in a situation that seems suspicious or just trying to live in the same home joint family marriage I have alot of experience in all that stuff.I don’t stay to on the blog to try to stop every women to not mix and marry a Pakistani or India man.I just want to say Hey here are the warning signs to educate other women so they r going into a marriage blindly.I am pretty certain most women will marry go ahead with the mix marriages at least I expect they will because these men are smooth talkers and have sex appeal like crazyyyy.
    The women after they do marry and their husbands are using them then they will will smell a rat alot faster that I did(years faster) and save themselves from years of mental torture blaming themselves thinking that they did something to deserve their life of misery like i did. I had no idea that I was not alone and this is common men using women for greencards.It was a life changing for me.When i found Ana’s blog and I started piecing things together I know longer felt like a victim but became empowered to stand up and say hey this is wrong and tell my story in hopes that I can educate other women through my own experiences.
    I am a very firm believer in being a strong minded,fair,woman and I don’t think it is to much to ask that my husband play by the same rules that I play by as well.
    Also I want to add that if u notice I don’t make it my habit to bash my excowife although Lord knows I could say alot of things against her but I don’t dare because I do feel she is a woman also and she is not as mentally strong as I am because she has to live under her family rules and her family is against me understand.So it would not be fair for me to bad mouth her given I understand her weakness.I do feel really bad for Pakistani and India women for being stuck under not only their husbands but also their families.2016 is upon us and still we have slavery in this world not every person in this world is free to make their own life choices.There are lots of types of slavery in this world and mental slavery is certainly a type of slavery make no doubts about it.

  • Spirited

    December 7, 2015
    Hey you two,

    Let me just pop in and be all nosy :D

    My mom is in Pakistan right now, she had gone with one my brothers and wants me to help her out so she’s not worried about him all the time while she does her shopping and visit with her family members (he never learned the language). That’s the main reason for my visit this time around — hanging out with family is always a great bonus, plus yes I have the final goodbye and giving the gifts I had promised I would bring the next time I went (and I always try my best to keep my word if I can help it).

    My previous visits had all been on account of an event or something such as that. I think one visit was purely just to visit (not any special event). Ana, nope, I really didn’t think anything was wrong — it wasn’t ideal, but not that bad. I trusted that this time, he would keep his word and if something was amiss, he would talk to me, so no, I didn’t have any thoughts of anyone trying to intercede. If I had suspected he was lying again, I would have just ended it way earlier instead of wasting more of my life with him.

    My in-laws are nice people, I’ve never had a mother-in-law horror story or anything like that. The only flaw I see in them is that they gave their oldest son (the moron I was/am married to) WAAAAAY too much importance and credit in the family. He often acts like he’s head of the household and he tries to boss his parents around like they’re inferior to him. He just thinks he’s too good for everyone, and that is definitely a personality/character flaw, nothing anyone else could do about that. Oh well.

  • anabellah

    December 6, 2015

    Gail,

    Wow, so you think you’re lactose intolerant? It’s the same thing my mom was diagnosed with after she had the same exploratory surgery that you had. It’s good that it’s something fairly easy to correct.

    Yes, you have to learn how to turn the channels in your mind or put it on mute, if you want to be content and at peace. It takes a lot of work and effort. We have to learn to control the thought waves of our minds. We are told to do it is by seeking refuge in God from Satan the accursed. Satan is an avowed enemy. He can only get to us by way of his whispers. People call it imagination, but it’s Satan.

    Spirited did say she is going to go to Pakistan to hang out with her cousins and say a finale goodbye to her in-laws. I was wondering if she had been going so frequently in hope that someone would intercede on her behalf and try to help save her marriage. I wouldn’t fault her at all, if it were what she’s been doing and is hoping for, as I know she loves her husband. I know she is hurting and has mixed emotions. She has been going through sooooo much. I truly think that stress contributes to health issues.

    All of us here are like family. You all are my best friends. I am sooooo happy that we are all here on the blog. Sometimes, Gail, it seems it just you and me, as we talk the most LOL. I’d be lost without you {{{hugs}}}

  • Gail

    December 6, 2015
    Ana,

    I don’t know I am trying something new recently and trying to just STOP and silence my mind.What I mean by that is when I feel myself getting upset or feeling insulted etc,,,I just stop and don’t go there.It’s kinda been working.My health seems to be improving and I think my stomach pains were because I am lactose intolerant which really sucks because I love cheese so much.I am looking into trying goat cheese because i heard it is easier on the stomach.
    I been thinking about Spirited constantly since she let us know about her upcoming divorce.Did she say she is going to visit her inlaws in Pakistan again?Maybe I misunderstood and she is going to visit her own family in Pakistan not sure.
    I am worried about her health with all her bleeding and having PCOS as well.I am going through the exact same thing she is right now and it has really affected my hormones/mood.Constant bleeding made me like a mad woman.It’s crazy how close alot of us have gotten over the yrs being on this blog.I seriously think of u ladies like my bestfriends even we have never met it is soo weird but u girls know me better than anyone else.

  • anabellah

    December 3, 2015

    Gail,

    I am so happy for you and your hubz. :-) You do seem to have a love for working with real estate. Investing in mobile homes and development seems to be what you were made to do. It’s important to do what one likes, as it’s makes doing it sooooo much easier than doing anything else. You’re drawn to it, so it must be for you. As you said, it could be what you and your hubz have in common. It could be the tie that binds along with the children. When things get tough and you feel like giving up, you have the children and land to keep you grounded. :-)

  • Gail

    December 3, 2015
    Ana,

    Well something pretty awesome has happened this week.I and hubby ran across some land a couple weeks ago that is for sale.We made an offer on the land and it has been accepted.I have soil scientist coming out to the land on sat to do a perk test for 3 septic systems and if all works out I will close on the land on Monday through the local title company.I stand to make around 200,000 profit from the land after putting 3 homes on the 3 lots.Even more than that if all works out like I am expecting I will own 6 homes by the end of 2016 and possible even 7 because the owner of the property i am buying from has close to another acre he is willing to sell me dirt cheap! I can not tell u how much I am loving mobile home development.
    I am trying to figure out ways to cut cost even more buy having hubby run to get licensed for septic installation and buying our own backhoe.
    I have always wanted to do real estate and even went to Real Estate school when I was 30 but put it on the back burner.I would have never thought in a million years I would have gotten into Mobile home development but all I can say is WOW I love it a million times more than stick home investing.It is sooo much cheaper I am not loosing my tenants and I have a people calling off the hook to rent to own mobile homes with land.
    I won’t lie it is sooooo much work and alot of financial investing but I feel like it is my calling.It is the one thing hubby and I have in common that we both love love love this business.Just thought I would share how everything is going on the real estate side.

  • Gail

    December 3, 2015
    Ana,

    I agree people just need to wise up and know what they r getting into and be prepared for a roller coaster of a ride should they choose to marry not only a Pakistani man but any man outside their religion,culture,ethnic group.It is just a given problems are bound to arise.

  • anabellah

    December 1, 2015

    Gail,

    Lol, yeah, there wouldn’t be enough bytes to post all the pics of the Pakistanis on the blog. Not only that. We’d have to post pics of the evil people who exposed the pics and the people who approved them. Furthermore, everybody’s pics would have to go on the blog because everyone on the planet has done dirt.

  • Gail

    December 1, 2015
    Ana,

    I agree the message that is trying to be sent here is not for the men but for women to wise up and don’t get mixed up with Pakistani men unless u know that man and his family personally.If u r a foreign woman and met the man on the internet or on the job through college etc.. U better think a million times before u jump in that Pakistani Rabbit hole.
    Woman have got to take responsibility for their own lives and not be so Naive when it comes to every Tom Dick and Harry telling them they they love them.If u were to start posting pictures u would have to put all Pakistan on your blog hahaha
    Better women learn to think before they jump.There is enough info on the internet now that women can make an informed choice.The message is out there what they do with it is up to them.

  • anabellah

    December 1, 2015

    Angelpatches, Welcome and thank you for imputing

    I can’t see how putting the pics of those men on the internet would help. Those men have family. They have wives, children and friends whom I am sure love them. Exposing those men would not only hurt them, but will hurt others as well. If those men have done wrong, they will answer to God for it. There is no need to try to destroy someone by exposing them on the internet.

    I have been a victim of spiteful, hateful people (wanna be’s sherlock holmes) on the internet who have put my husband and my personal information out there on the internet, knowing I blogged anonymously. They tried to destroy my husband and his livelihood. They were NOT successful. His and my lives only have gotten better since they’ve done their devilish act. I’m sure their lives haven’t. Nothing good comes from evil.

  • Angelpatches

    December 1, 2015
    I just wish we could put there pictures on here that would really help.
  • Gail

    November 21, 2015
    Lety,

    I am curious how do u know your husband is not already married in Pakistan?
    Listen if he has not told his family about u then u for sure can think u r not part of his family.It means very clearly he is keeping u secret for a reason and that reason is he must be engaged if not married already and more than likely to a cousin.I wish I could be more positive but think about ti logically he is obviously marriage age and his family is thinking he is not married
    it is the parents job to marry their son etc are u following me here?

  • anabellah

    November 20, 2015

    Noor,

    I’m happy that you are happy. Thank you for sharing your joy :-)

  • noor

    November 20, 2015
    i am happy
  • ummof4

    November 18, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum and welcome to all,

    Lety, welcome to the blog. I agree with Ana and feel you should be concerned. Marriage is celebrated in Islaam and shared with family and friends. A secret marriage is a big red flag that something is not correct.

    Are you Muslim? I only ask that because the advice may differ depending on whether you are Muslim or not.

    May Allah protect us all from lies and deceit from anyone, including ourselves.

  • anabellah

    November 17, 2015

    @Lety,

    Welcome! I wish I could say you have nothing to worry about, but I can’t. Don’t you think it is peculiar that you are married and your husband’s family knows nothing of you? It’s not how marriage usually works. Who wouldn’t want to tell the world, especially family, about his bride? The majority of those men have an agenda and it is all about taking care of their biological, blood family, not a foreign wife.

  • Lety

    November 17, 2015
    Oh no, after reading all of this I am definitely worried. I have been married to my husband for a year. He is visiting his family in Pakistan next week for 3 weeks! Should I be concerned? His family doesn’t know about me, so he might come back married?! This is definitely a self esteem destroyer by the way. I am not sure what to do … Any advice would be appreciated.
  • anabellah

    November 7, 2015

    I’ve placed a link here for those who would like to refresh their memory about Aussie’s story: http://www.polygamy411.com/marry-pakistani-man/#comment-7451

  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015
    Ps. If you want to see the start of my story its on May 15th 2015. I realise this sounds as jumbled as his lies are. I think Im just going to have to block him again. I’ve already told him to stop wasting his time gaslighting me and to make new friends. Hopefully thats enough. I so wish I could compare notes with his new wife though.
  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015
    ps. Id love to just chat to his wife btw but its probably a rabbit hole I should stay away from. Once he gets his VISA he could get aggressive. At least thats what my student says
  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015
    Ha ha you two are awesome :) he’s from Lahore and my student from Karachi. Yeah I think he mentally raped me and he’s trying to do it again somehow. He is quite Westenised in some ways however as his mum is a politician and wants to learn more. He doesn’t seem to care if you swear at him and tell him how it is. I think the persistance is cultural too. I hate not being friends with my exes though and we did have a connection. He said he’s 100% in love with his wife now (she is Aussie and his flatmate and who he two timed me with.) I never met her in the year I was seeing him because she was always fighting with him and trying to kick him out. (Apparently they had an interlude a month before we got together.) They live in a massive five bedroom house with her upstairs and him downstairs so they just ignored each other for a while. Ive joked before that he’s like bluebeard. He probably just really wants to be friends because other people have picked up on the dodgy politician thing. I can’t believe his mum just didnt help him do a uni course so he didnt have to pressure anyone and just go out with them for a while. Im pretty sure he doesnt have a Pakistani wife, Ive interrogated and teased him no end. But yeah a bit suss on why he wants to be friends so much.
  • Umair

    November 7, 2015
    Hi Aussie Girl,

    Where is he from in PK?Just to get easy ride as visa systems are getting tougher & tougher in these countries including “International Student Visa” & Work Visa.

    Where are you from Australia? Main city or small outback town?

    What’s his name?Is his name Zeeshan by any chance?

    Who is your Pakistani student?

    You are absolutely right,whole family is behind it to marry a white girl with mother,sisters,father,brothers in this plan,then divorce her,go back to PK ruin another girls life & families life bring her here as your spouse on spousal visa which has increased too.What do you mean by his flat mate? A male flat mate?He is already playing double game or doing fraud with his wife…Hacking hacking is all non sense,Pakistani girls don’t do that to husbands…He actually mentally raped you.

    Your student is right that Pakistani man will talk about marriage, as his wife just to sleep with her.That’s why in Islam no relationships & pre-martial sex or fornication or adultery or girl running away or eloping for marriage,as there are many undesired children thrown away,once he runs away even after marriage with whole burden on women to raise them.

  • Gail

    November 7, 2015
    Aussie Girl,

    If u r done with him !00% just tell him to F@ck off and do not contact u again or u will go get a restraining order against him.Thats the easy way.Tell him straight u got his number and if u ever get desperate enough in the future to be faggot enough to marry him he will be the first to know.
    That’s the easy way! lol

  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015
    Hello ladies, just to keep you updated. I bumped into my manipulative ex from Pakistan this year who was going out with his flatmate at the same time as me whilst trying to get me to marry him. He started texting me all the time which I ignored. Finally I agreed to see him after he sent a present to my work. In Punjabi style he says I am friends like family although we haven’t hung out for two years. He said his wife ended up hacking through his phone to find out we were still together when they started going out. I hung out with him twice and kept getting texts from him until I finally exploded and said hes sexist and manipulative and I dont like it and reminded him he’d agreed for me to bid an extra $100,000 on a house for us although I didnt know he was already with his flatmate. He tried to gaslight me by saying I imagine things and am neurotic and we were only courting in the last six months of our relationship. He said the house thing is an elephant in the room. My Pakistani student said even if Pakistani men arent polygamous, some facets of it can be ingrained into cultural behaviour. One is to threaten to get with someone else if you fall out of line with their rigmorale (usually financially driven), the other is to reserve the right to date other people as well as yourself before you are married. The gaslighting and lying are all part of it. He also admitted that it was his mother who said he couldn’t even “get a faggot to marry (him) for a visa” about me but he said it was “find a faggot” and it wasnt about me, therefore Ive misinterpreted it. Ive read this before but it turns out his parents were pushing him as much as possible to marry me quickly so he could make money. He acts like this is normal culturally and doesnt feel guilty about it. Also my student said its culturally normal for a Pakistani man to talk about marriage with a girl even if he just wants to sleep with you.

    He still really loves me as a friend and is sorry about being so awful and said the visa system mixed with his parents pressure were messing him up. He won’t back down about agreeing for me to bid at an auction for him in the last week of our relationship though. I think its the lie that he tells himself for his new relationship to work. Anyway Ive found a lot of this awful stuff is cultural now and its how I can take it with a grain of salt. Otherwise Id be thoroughly insane from all the lying and the gaslighting. Oh he showed me some picture of a blonde older woman too (looks like his type) and asked if Id met her, he didnt say why but I wouldn’t be surprised if its another affair. He said his wife hacked his phone and found out about me and “something else.” He also gave me some bizarre social advise which involved dividing people to get what I want. His life is a strange manipulative soap opera. Anyway Im not sure whether to block him again because that seems to make him more persistent in trying to contact me, or just take it with a grain of salt as s cultural thing and just tell him to #@*% off whenever he contacts me and I get annoyed again. It takes a lot of energy.

  • anabellah

    October 24, 2015

    Ali,

    Your post had nothing to do with the problem that we were discussing. Just because the Pakistani government does some good every now and again doesn’t mean we need to ignore wrong doing.

    Gail was correct. No one here knows anything about those nationalities of men who you mentioned. We hear from women who have been “wronged” by Pakistani men. We talk about the matter at hand.

    Thank you, however, for sharing your political views.

    Umair,

    As Salaamu Alaikum, brother :-)

  • Gail

    October 23, 2015
    Umair,

    There is no way a white woman can do a background check on a Pakistani man living in Pakistan to that is absurd.I might have misunderstood what u meant to type not sure but everyone lies in Pakistan hoping for a piece of the pie if the boy gets out of Pakistan.
    As far as people having servants and all that Jazz and not wanting to leave Pakistan that’s just not truth.If the told Pakistani people they could leave the country no need of a passport WELL lets just say Pakistani would be empty! LOL
    I am not trying to talk bad about Pakistan I am just explaining the truth as I see it.

  • Umair

    October 23, 2015
    Ali.you hate it when Pakistan gets insulted/humiliated like that,but they have done this to ruin or destroy many women’s lives.Gail is one of them but she is to blame like other women to do character checks on him or her in the case of a girl from Pakistan…Many rejected in Pakistan are married by them as the families were smart to get character checks before marrying their daughters/sisters…

    The Gail point is right but I want to take it further with not only home politics but also office politics with very toxic environment on top of corruption galore or graft charges make you go sick.

    No Gail is not right that there are more rich people in Pakistan then US,who never wants to go out of Pakistan with lines of maid/servants in line in US.There are better guys in Pakistan than US,as every one or all fingers are not same.Much to be desired of their character checks from PK,which they didn’t get(Epic Fail)….

    Your point of FBI/CIA/Blackwater meddling in Pakistan is true.US is the orphan child of devil in any country it steps or enters in.,.Raymond Davis must have been hanged in Pakistan along with other Blackwater contractors,this is Pakistan’s weakness…

    Gail,is right to tell the black women,to tell the guy she is from Ethopia or Nigeria,let’s see where the love goes.

    White Blue eyed girls are beautiful with fantasy growing up,they are like Hoors.Thats why a person shakes looking at beautiful blondie blue eyes,not their acts & deeds if they are skunk….

    That’s why many taxi drivers Rape beautiful white girls as they are not going to get them…Recently a Pakistani Muhammad NAveed 40 yrs Taxi/Uber driver raped 20 yrs old British lass,after sending his wife & children to Pakistan & living the life of freedom alone!

  • Gail

    October 23, 2015
    Ali,

    I have been married with a Pakistani man for 12 yrs so I speak on the blog of my personal experience.I can’t speak of other nations because I don’t have experience with those men but I will say this in general if anyone is looking at a person to marry from a much lower level country then of course logically speaking u will need to understand the inherit risk that comes from marrying a person from a poor country.
    I agree with u that not every single Pakistani is horrible thats fine I accept it but the problem is that from my knowledge and investigations over the yrs I noticed that Pakistani men are on the internet fishing for European woman to marry for immigration and this just can’t be denied.Knowone is saying Pakistani life is not hard it is very hard to make a decent living in Pakistan then u combine that with family politics and only men working for the most part and the culture aspects yeah there is no wonder why they r fishing.Here is the thing though I feel I owe it to woman to sound the alarm bell and say hey before u jump u better consider the outcome and be ready for worse case outcome.
    Also even lets say for sake of argument both love each other and the feelings are mutual it really don’t matter because the man is so controlled by his family to the point his wants and desires really take a backseat to his family politics.Even if the woman stays normally she feels so suppressed that her life becomes miserable because she is hounded all the time by her inlaws sticking their 2 rupees in on how to raise the kids.It is enough to make a person mentally sick.

  • Ali

    October 23, 2015
    Well post i like it very much how you all make bla bla bla against Pakistani guyz or Mans. Not all Pakistani guyz do that not all are same yes i can say few are doing like this i not say i am not agree to this post i am really agree but why u target only Pakistani ? whole over the world many people try to go UK and USA but why u think all people want to go USA or UK. for me even some budy issue me USA Visa i will gives him or her back or broken front of him even UK. Not only UK or USA a really good country many countries much better than those countries. But i really not understand why you make target Pakistan guyz ? Filipino, Bangaladishi , indians serilankan indoneshian bhotan maldeep many many so many country guys like to go USA and UK to make many ways lol. You got Jelous ? coz Pakistan is a first Islamic country who Atomic Power and till 2017 its will be the no 4th super power of this world or u getting scared coz Pakistan got technology of Mezails those can finish even whole europe and also 2 really secrets Mezails those ranges not disclose yet. When u blame and point one whole nation think about your own self who you are and where you belong and where you stand just for a few people you have no rights to blame whole nation or use country name. USA people have to say thanks to Pakistani people we did help them too much other wise millions of US Soldiers will be dead and whole Afghanistan become Graveyard of US Army and thousands will be lost them parts like legs hands and much more . Also have to say thanks coz we gives them back alive RAYMOND DAVIS and some more American FBI agents those who do work inside Pakistan and they was doing work against Pakistan. If you gonna pin point only Pakistan coz of this thing and use name of my country i can put here too much about USA what they doing around the world also for own country but i am not like you blame your whole county because of only few guys so think before say hope those people got brain they understand what i mean thank you so much. I am proud to be Pakistani and this is only the country whole over the world no one can do any bad happen to us even USA UK INDIA ISRAIL OR RUSSIA . You have to stop this nonsense talking against Pakistani Guyz and stop this propaganda against Pakistan thank you so much
  • van

    October 23, 2015
    Yes. I totally agree with this post. So true!!! :) marry with PAK man Be aware!!!!
  • Gail

    October 17, 2015
    aagirl81,

    I am married to a Pakistani man for the past 12 yrs and from what I read his agenda is to trap u for marriage to obtain immigration.If u don’t believe me tell him u r not a USA citizen and u have nigerian citizenship or some other dirt poor African nation with high HIV rate then see if he still professes his love for u.LOL
    Wake up girl and get REAL before u get taken advantage of.
    Ana said correct u r not the right skin color not that being white saves u but it does help.They don’t adore black skin.

  • anabellah

    October 17, 2015

    aagirl81,

    I suggest that you be careful meeting anyone online. It is risky business. In your post you said that you are married. I am assuming you made a mistake in writing and you are not married.

    It has been said on this blog that Pakistani men prefer white women, not black ones. So the mere fact that you are African American should raise a red flag that he probably wants something from you and it’s not love and affection. You asked us if he likes you. There is no way we would know . We don’t know him. We know that many Pakistani men have an agenda and it is to leave Pakistan. They want to hook up with a woman from the west to help them do it – to help them gain citizenship in a European country. There are many men available out there. There’s no need for you to mess around with men out there who are questionable. I suggest you read this thread/ post and comments.

    You should read the comments on this blog. Getting involved with a Pakistani man is not recommended.

  • aagirl81

    October 17, 2015
    Hi, I am an African American women in the usa. Some how pakistani man who is 24 found me on social network site. I accepted his friend request. He asked me to be his girlfriend. I said no, then he asked if I could help him find a girlfriend. I said no. He asked for money and help with getting visa. I told him I had no money and could not help. I am married also. Pakistani boy still wanting to talk to me. He live in pakistan, but he works in Saudi Arabia. He says he is not married. He and I have been talking. I really like him. He says maybe one day he will come to usa. I say maybe we meet. He also likes lady boys. I think he is bisexual. Is that common? I still like him. What Are THE Chances He Likes me? He tells me he loves me. Is he joking? I am starting to fall for him.
  • anabellah

    October 12, 2015

    I’m almost finished watching a documentary on Netflix entitled, “Dark Girls”. It addresses what we’ve been discussing about people thinking light skin is better than dark, and about bleaching creams. They said bleaching creams cause cancer. The documentary, which is only an hour long, is quite good.

  • kim

    October 11, 2015
    Fatima,

    Thanks! For the truth. I appreciate it.

  • anabellah

    October 11, 2015

    People are pretty much prejudiced against Black People everywhere. The most peculiar thing about it is Arabs don’t like black people. They see them as lowly slaves the same as they see Indian people (which is evident by the incidents in the media recently involving Arabs enslaving Indian women). An Arab woman cut off the arm of an Indian woman who was her slave. Some Arabs made a couple Indian women sex slaves for a week, sodomizing them and doing them every which way but up – up too probably. Yet Black People parade around in the Arab’s get up. Many walk around dressed like Arabs, wanting to look and be like the very people that look down on them – the very people who don’t like them. It’s baffling to me.

  • Fatimah

    October 11, 2015
    Kim

    Lawd, I agree with Umair. A pakistani man agreeing to marry an African American woman??? They are one of the MOST prejudice ppl Ive ever come across. Allah forgive us all. I smell a rat who needs a green card. A pakistani man put his hand on the holy Quran and swore that he did not have another wife and married my aunt. She became a Muslim and married him. They had a son and everything. Later to find that he was cheating on her, with his wife!!! Im not going to eat out their backs but Ive seen enough in my experience with these folks to know not to deal with them. They really do lie. They dont like giving salaams to other muslims of different races. I should not make a general statement bc there are some very good Pakistani Muslims but these are traits. I crack up about that fair and lovely bc they have sooooooo many whitening creams to whiten those faces. So sad that they live in a prison. and Ana is right, it translate as not being satisfied with how ALLAH swt created them. ALLAH forgive us all.

  • anabellah

    October 11, 2015

    baseema,

    I’ve always been morbid when it comes to death. I have this thing, even before I became Muslim, in which I think about death regularly. When I became Muslim and in my general reading of Islamic material I learned we should remember death because it let us know this life is temporary and fleeting. It was right up my alley. I remember one day saying to my older sister that we should always think about death. She said, “Bullsh!t, am I going to think about death everyday.” I laugh about her response till this day. I get very concerned about my mom because at the age of 79, I know her days left on this earth is definitely limited. It saddens me. She’s not Muslim, so after this life, unless I go to the Hell Fire, I won’t ever see her again. The thought of her being in the Fire is not a thought that I relish.

    We should remember death as it lets us know we are running out of time to get ourselves right with Allah. He could seize our souls at anytime and we don’t know whether our good deed have outweighed our bad. Our good deeds must outweigh our bad for us to enter Paradise/Jannah. Some Muslims think that just being “Muslim” is enough to get them into Jannah/Paradise. Allah says if it wasn’t for His Mercy we’d all be in Hell. A lot of people think they are going to Jannah/Paradise, but will be in the Fire.

    There was a story (Not in the Quran) that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had someone come to him everyday with a reminder of death. One day he told the man he did not have to come to him with the reminder any longer, as he had seen a grey hair in his head which reminded him.

  • baseema

    October 11, 2015
    Thirty years, Ana, nice! You are very blessed to have that friendship. I have some long term friendships, but somehow life just seems to get in the way and I lose touch for a while, then reconnect. It’s really nice that you are so close to him. Those types of friendships are something priceless.

    Isn’t it shocking how time flies by? Life is so short. You spend your time when you are a young teenager wishing you were older, then you get your wish and realize how valuable time really is. It just marches on with or without you.

    Somehow I don’t feel my age, but it really hit me when my mother told me not too long ago that she wasn’t going to buy solar panels because “you don’t get your money back from them for at least 8 years and who knows where I will be in 8 years.”

    It was so sad. I don’t want to live as though I’m going to die soon. But I mean we all are going to someday, but basing decisions on it, hmm. I guess it’s practical, BUT…

  • kim

    October 11, 2015
    Thanks Anabellah!
    I pray for myself and the other women caught up in this web of lies and deceit to have the strength to walk away and the peace to stick with that decision.

    All the Best to All us in the pursuit of true and honest love.

  • anabellah

    October 11, 2015

    Kim,

    It was wonderful having you here. You sound to be a very nice person. You can do better than him. He’s probably perpetrating a fraud undoubtedly. Get rid of that Loser sign Loser. Don’t start a relationship off on the wrong foot. you could do better than that. Don’t sell yourself short.

    The best to you, Kim! {{{hugs}}} It’s sad to see you go

  • kim

    October 10, 2015
    Well, I want to say thank you for the advice. I do believe what you are telling me. I will stop waiting in suspicion to prove that I knew about his lies all along. That is silly of me. I do not believe he is a Christian but a Muslim. He has studied how to pose as a Christian man, but his life never reflects that of a man of any faith. I admit, I did want to believe him and I was starting to fall for him, but I will slap myself back into reality not a the hope for his potential or a fairytale. I am glad for this site. Thanks everyone.
  • anabellah

    October 10, 2015

    @baseema,

    No need to thank me, Sis. I’m happy you are here.

    baseema,

    I can understand why Pakistanis people would want to leave the country for a better life. I totally get it. You wouldn’t be a true friend, if you didn’t want better for your friend. Insha Allah, he’ll leave there one day. I believe he is being truthful with you when he says that you will always have a connection, as he introduced you to Islam.

    It’s the same with my Wali and I. He introduced me to Islam and we’ve been the best of friends since we’ve met. It will be 30 years in March 2016. It wasn’t meant for he and I to be anything more. We have a purely platonic brother and sister-in-faith friendship. Allah swt places people in our lives for a reason. We don’t always know what the reason is. Sometimes it not for the reason that we thought it was.

    It’s really good that your friend wants to always be friends with you. It especially good that he reads Quran to you and you both discuss Islam. It’s important to keep Islam in the relationship. It’s the tie that binds.

    It’s so freaky to hear confirmation about all that everyone says with regard to Pakistani people. All that you says he does and says about the cousin marriages and giving all his money to his mother is incredible. You made me laugh when you said last you heard he only had a dollar in the account. Giggling

    Allah knows best whether he’ll ever be able to leave the country one day. Insha Allah, he will be able to. If he does the right thing with regard to the worship and belief of Allah and changes his heart, Allah will change his condition. Allah says He will not change the condition of a person until the person changes what is in his heart.

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015
    Thank you for the encouraging words Ana!
  • baseema

    October 10, 2015
    Yep, he really did that. Had me really fooled! But I knew something was up because he was acting completely different too. It took him about 9 months after I blocked her for him to admit it and tell me why he was so distant.

    Also, he says he can never leave me, no matter what, because I became Muslim by learning from him. He told me even if I leave, marry someone else, etc., he will always be only a phone call away if I need anything. He says, according to religion, we are forever connected. I believe him, he’s never scammed me other than the lie, and he has even sent me money before a couple times.

    He is religious, he prays, sometimes reads the Quran over the phone to me, and he has good values, but apparently it’s that passage about it’s okay to lie to someone if you’re going to hurt them. He now says he knows it was wrong.

    I believe he does want to come here, because it is such a hard life there and who knows what the future holds. I would like to see him leave there too. The stories I hear about hours and hours with no electric, sometimes the cell phone networks are cut off, because of suicide bomber threats, it’s dangerous there. He gets sick too often, has to boil all the water, be very careful of eating outside and at others’ houses, and I do worry about him. But it’s a friend type worry, and unfortunately all I can do is pray for him. I can understand how he would want to get out of there.

    I do think he genuinely cares about me as well, at least as a friend, because he does not have to talk to me. He gets nothing from me but companionship and advice. He tells me things he says he cannot talk to any other person about. Also, he openly admits that everyone there is very materialistic, and cousin oriented to marriages. I was also shocked when I found out a year and a half ago that he hands over ALL his money to his mother.

    I told him start keeping some, because she doesn’t know how much he makes. It is always different. Well, he did, and she found out, and cried and cried till he was so guilty he decided he couldn’t do it again. So then I told him, have a talk with her and tell her that you want to better yourself and you are going to keep a percentage of it and put it in the bank, otherwise, you will NEVER have anything. Apparently it’s the usual way is to hand everything over to the mother. CRAZY. I would never do that to my child.

    So, he talked to her, and opened a bank account and puts it in but last I knew he had only a dollar in there. Friends and family come knocking all the time with emergencies and needing money. A friend gets in a bike accident, goes to the hospital, and they will not treat him without money upfront. OMG what a place to live. Sadly, I don’t think he will ever be able to get out of there and escape his family.

  • anabellah

    October 10, 2015

    @baseem,

    Something very, very, very good came from you meeting and befriending your friend. You are now Muslim. Yeah, baby
    It’s fantastic. We never know why Allah does what He does. He in His infinite Wisdom and Knowledge is the Doer of all things. He is a Doer of what He wills.

    I’m so happy you are Muslim and are here with us. About learning Islam, we couldn’t learn in a lifetime all that there is to know. Take a day at a time, but know that life is short and we’re quickly running out of time.

    About meeting people online to marry, I wouldn’t want to do it. As you said, who knows who is who. I used to watch that show, “Catfish” sometimes. The deceitful ways of some people are unbelievable. It’s crazy.

    Oh, well, it’s 6:50 a.m. where I am. I am going to retire to the boudoir.

  • anabellah

    October 10, 2015

    @baseemah, As Salaamu Alaikum, Sis

    Wow, he really did that? Pretended he wasn’t talking to her any longer because he blocked her on Facebook, but was communicating with her via other social media. It was quite clever of him, indeed. I know you sure are so grateful to Allah that He got you out of a serious relationship with him before you got in too deep. Allah U Akbar!!!

    I find it sooo very interesting that the Pakistani way of life is consistent. So many people keep saying the same thing. They seek out white women and don’t believe in divorce, just to name a couple of things. They try to leave Pakistan by any means necessary, even if they have to charm the ladies in the west and lie to them to take a free ride to get here. It’s all contrary to Islam. Islam only restricts marriage based on whether a person is virtuous or a Believer, besides limiting the number of wives a man may have to four. A Muslim can marry anyone who is a Muslim, regardless of nationality, color race, language etc. A white person is no better than an India, Black, Hispanic, Asian or any one else. They’ve got it so twisted; it isn’t funny.

    Pakistani women need to learn to like themselves. All that putting on “Dark and Lovely” and bleaching cream is very sad. They don’t like the way Allah made them. Allah said He made everyone in perfect proportion. What they are going through reminds me of what African Americans went through years ago. They had to learn to love themselves. Pakistani people have a sad state of affairs.

    It’s good you and he are now just friends. Deal with him with a long stick LOL As you said, thank God it’s over. Allah saved you from a colossal blunder. I don’t question what you said, that there is some crazy stuff going on over there. I can’t imagine it being any crazier than what we’ve already heard here on the blog. sigh

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015
    Ana, I know I wasn’t seeking a husband. We just met at a game website and started talking and it went on from there, over time getting to know each other. I am betting it is very rare that women go online seeking a husband. I think it just happens. Just like that Ashley Madison website, they claimed that the womens’ profiles were mostly all fake. It’s just men spotting lonely women, befriending them. That’s my guess.

    I didn’t know anything about Islam before meeting him. He started talking about religion and it sounded so beautiful, and so unlike all the stereotypical things I had heard. Then I began to investigate. And started to learn, and still learning. So I guess you can say that something beautiful did come out of it after all!

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015
    Hey Gail, calm down girl! I don’t need saving. I have not been there and I am not ever going there. It was just a LD relationship. As you know, it is very hard for someone from that country to come here. I am not willing to go there, I have heard too much bad stuff. We are only friends now.

    He had barely talked to me for the past year, and then this spring I found out it was because he was talking to an old girlfriend from PK who now lives in the US and is divorcing her husband. He actually told me she was sending him messages last summer and had me log in his facebook and block her. As you might guess, he never uses his facebook.

    I should have known then. That was very clever of him to have me thinking she was blocked and all the while using viber and whatsapp to talk to her!

    He said he thought it was a way to get here, and also since he is still in love with her, (news to me!) but he said his family would never accept her either because she is not white and she is divorced. However, that plan fell through, and they are no longer talking. At least right now. Who knows.

    I no longer trust him at all. MEN! UGH! I hate secrets and I always told him he could tell me anything at all. But he said later, the reason he kept it secret is because he “didn’t want to destroy my happiness.”

    If somehow he ever happens to make it to this country, to live, my eyes are WIDE open. That’s why I said “Fairy Tale.” We are close friends though, and I have encouraged him to marry a cousin if that is what he wants to do. His mom needs a Cinderella. She really does ask him every day about someone.

    I do care about him, and I believe that he is a good person in a bad situation. Yes he lied. No one is perfect. I have forgiven him, but will never forget. He is more like a brother to me now. He asks my advice and now we talk more honestly. And I am over him, but I do still care about him, but not as I did before. You can fall hard for someone when you spend hours and hours talking to them! I never dreamt it would happen to me, but it did. Thank God it is over.

    Now he talks openly to me. In fact, he just told me the other day he went to a wedding and there was a girl there staring at him the whole time. She was the cousin of the groom. I encouraged him to speak to her and get to know her, but he said that is against ethics and he can’t even tell his friend about it.

    I am really enjoying our “friend” relationship much more. I am 100% sure that is all it will ever be. I know when the next girl comes along, that we won’t be talking, he will be busy, and that is okay. For now, we talk about our families, play games online, and I have fun with him. It is so interesting hearing the goings on in the family. I know everything you say is true Gail. That’s why I questioned Nina. I could write a book about the happenings just in the last few years. There is some crazy stuff going on over there!

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    My wali was telling me that many of the Pakistani people represents unbelievers and they are no different than unbelievers ANYWHERE. He said we just happen to be talking about Pakistani people and the people we speak of our apparently unbelievers.

    He said that Allah tells us to do exactly what Umair have been talking about – INVESTIGATE. Just don’t turn your women over to any body. The question come to my mind that if the Pakistani men are unbelievers and the women who are falling for the okie doke are unbelievers where is the wrong? Unbelievers do what unbelievers do. It’s okay for unbelievers to marry unbelievers.

    Now, on the other hand, the Muslim women who are being bamboozled because they don’t listen to Allah. They don’t investigate. They don’t have representatives. They are just out there on their own, seeking husbands.They fall for any man who says he is Muslim and lays on the charm. They believe anything the man says, as he says what she wants to hear.

    Allah tells the the men not to marry their believing women to any man until the man believes and He says the same about marrying the men to unbelievers. Don’t do it!

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    Umair,

    You are correct in asking where are these western/European women’s representatives? These women are being sent out there like sheep amongst the wolves.

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    I’m beginning to understand the importance of family or a wali being involved in the selection process for a mate. Women tend to only deal with emotions, not logic and the selection process becomes tainted. Once she’s all into her feelings she’s not listening to reason.

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    Umair, As Salamm Alaikum,

    THANK YOU, brother for your post to Kim. I’m just about exhausted from trying to talk sense into people who only want to believe what they want to believe. Is some man talking sweet nothing in a woman’s ear all it takes to get her? It’s all he needs to do to wrap her around his finger? These women don’t realize these are trying times out there for many people, especially for people In impoverished countries. People are doing anything just to put food in their mouths and that of their families. It’s survival of the fittest. When people won’t listen to reason it probably meant for them to learn the hard way. They have to see for themselves. It’s must be their fate.

  • Umair

    October 9, 2015
    Wow,this is new that Pakistani men like black women,well Pakistani like women like Scarlett Johnson,Jessica Alba,Miranda Kerr,Candice Swaponel with beautiful white skin,on top of petite figure with blue big eyes…Now that is a beauty in their eyes of the beholder.Long Blonde/Brunette hair as well to have cute cute babies.@ Gails point of referring back to “Fair & Lovely” cream use by women in Pakistan.Even the black or dark colour Pakistani women are not accepted,with which world do you live in???

    Yes,i agree with Anabelle,with many Muslims converting or turning to Christianity just to get citizienships in Europe,US,Canada,Australia with the good Pakistani guys come to study in Uni.s on their own in Western countries.Pakistani Minorities are very big time liar,this is the non sense,sun sets with you & raise with you or around you is an emotional trap to get the women mentally,as she will fell who is so worthless that someelse has to tell her or priase to her what she wants to listen…Women love to hear their praises(Even FAKE PRAISES) just to get her,men like to see in women(Visual),with men don’t get trapped by FAKE/BOGUS PRAISES.It’s in any culture not in Pakistani culture,like anabellah said before,like every culture their are fortune seeker who will do anything.If you DON’T have anything to eat,what ISLAM or being muslim will do,when the ARAB KIngs are busy in marriage,womenising,gold plated bathrooms,cars???

    Gail has spent a far bit of time in Pakistan,she has the most knowledge with fair & lovely creams used to get white skin.If you did a background or character check,just like in PAKISTAN done before you handover your sister or daughter that what company does or people does he or she for your son have or sits or stands in,drunk,narcotics,gambler,womeniser or go to brothels etc etc.In your case you said that you checked in NY,that his record in not there that he is married or divorced,better check again,because he can have you as a co-wife.If he is a serial LIAR now,you are a good girl/women,run the other way like their is fire in your feet…These humans DON’T care about anyone.Can you let us know,which area(City) of PK does he belongs,as that plays a big role with some parts or cities residents/people are the worst than gutters/sewerage.Trust me!

  • anabellah

    October 8, 2015

    I wouldn’t doubt there are a lot of “Muslims” out there claiming to have converted to Christianity due to all the negative publicity that Muslims and Islam are getting. I read that some of the Muslims migrating to Europe have converted to Christianity. What does it really mean?

  • anabellah

    October 8, 2015

    Kim,

    The only thing I could tell you is to run from him like your shoes are on fire. I wouldn’t tell you to take a chance on that man. For what? What good is a man telling you that – You’re his Queen; the sun rise and sets around you; he can’t live without you; and Blah Blah Blah Parrot. What good is sweet talking dialogue? There is not enough sweet talk in the world that would get me to mix up with him with all the warnings out there. Is it worth it – always wondering and suspecting, waiting for the other shoe to drop? If he doesn’t have much substance, is the charm enough for you?

  • kim

    October 8, 2015
    I am involved with a Paki man who says he’s a Christian and he and his family have lived here since he was 20 and he’s now 50. He said they fled Pakistan because of Christian persecution. He mom died in Pakistan, dad died here in the states. Sisters n brothers I am supposed to meet soon and I’m supposed to visit his church soon. I’ve read so many websites like this that I am paranoid. Because I do see some similarities in his over the top charm & wanting to get married too fast. I am an African American woman. I am really into him, but I have my guards up. He’s highly emotional and sensual, but not much else…some things, but not much substance. I did a background check & found there was no public record from his wife he supposedly married & got divorced in NY. I’m waiting to see the divorce papers & meet the family. He swears there’s a lot of paki men who love black women, but in the back of my mind I have a question mark…always.Any this yo force his hand..
  • Gail

    October 7, 2015
    Baseema,

    I am confused are u saying that u know for a fact I assume your fiance is telling u this that his family wants him to marry his cousin.
    Girl listen if this is what u r saying u need to stop LOL and wise up fast and get your head out of the clouds ASAP!
    What he is really telling u by not coming out straight is that he is going to marry this cousin or is already married to her so u better stop laughing and find out more about this cousin and who she is and if u r willing to practice polygamy.Straight up he is using u for a greencard and telling u as much(laughing at u thinking u r an idiot) to be frank(him and his family).
    I will tell u this even if u r ready for Polygamy Pakistani first cousin wives don’t make the best cowives(they hatee and reject polygamy as a culture) and believe me she has the family backing her not u.U r the simpleton idiot they used to get the greencard.U r not family so u need to wise up about your situation because your fairy Tale is about to get REAL real quick! Please wise up and read between the lines he is telling u straight by not telling u him and his families plans to marry that cousin and later on he is going to stress u the Hell out and announce some bullcrap that his family is insisting him to marry that cousin.
    The majority of pakistani people marry their cousins and nothing is going to get in the way of that esp not some white American Whore in their book that goes to a foreign country to marry an unknown man.
    Sorry if I come across hard in my words but I am telling u the G.D honest truth girl.I am also American and I hate seeing my sisters taken advantage up.Please pray about what I have just told u.

  • baseema

    October 6, 2015
    OH Ana, I did not know that about Princess Diana. That is amazing they told her straight out about not accepting her. I was told straight that almost everyone scams there and his family will think he is scamming me, but actually he truly loves me. And only he knows the REAL reason why he wants to marry me. For true love, of course! But it’s all ok (so he says) because his family will accept me because 1. I am white, and 2. I am an American.

    Meanwhile I later found out that they daily (and still do)tried to force him to marry a cousin. LOL!

    When I read Nina’s post, it was like looking into a mirror. But I hope, for her sake, that everything really IS upfront. I still want to believe in Fairy Tales.

  • anabellah

    October 5, 2015

    @Ummof4, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I recently watched the movie on Netflix about Princess Diana. The guy whom she was in a relationship with was Pakistani. She went to Pakistan to meet his family. The family let her know straight that they weren’t going to accept her. She wasn’t welcome to marry their son. They didn’t care that she was a “Princess”. They didn’t care what she was other than she was not one of them.

    As we who have read this thread knows, Pakistani people are all about keeping it all in the family. If you aren’t one of them, you aren’t welcome. They don’t can’t if one is a Believer/Muslim or Muslim. If you ain’t Pakistani, you just ain’t anything. Some people just don’t get it. They won’t accept the facts, regardless of what you tell them. They think they are the exception to the rule. They are blinded by desire. It’s why when one comes here thinking she’s got it going on and she the exception to the rule because she’s hot, which she is not LOL I just go with it. I’m not wasting my breath on those who clearly only want to believe what they want to believe. They see only what they want to see. They are blinded by desire.

    Nonetheless, I think it was way nice of you and baseema to reach out to Nina.

  • ummof4

    October 5, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum and welcome to all,

    Nina, I hope that you are not being used for immigration. Are you Muslim? If not, just a word to the wise. Most strict, religious Muslim families in Pakistan and around the world do not accept a non-Muslim who is marrying their son with open arms. They may tolerate her, even be nice, but they do not accept her due to the fact that she is not Muslim. Most strict, religious Muslim families want their sons to marry a Muslim woman to carry on Islam in the family. They do not like the thought that their grandchildren could be raised in any religion other than Islam, which will probably happen if the mother is a non-Muslim. I

    Also, from the stories on this blog, being invited to go to Pakistan to meet the family means nothing. The fact that you can afford to go to Pakistan and meet them in person tells them that you have money to spend. Be careful.

    May Allah guide us all to make the best decisions for out lives in this life and the next.

  • baseema

    October 5, 2015
    Hi Nina,

    You sound like you have it all together. But I could have written that same paragraph a few years ago. I know there are nice guys there, but it’s more complicated than that.

    Can I ask, have you met him, and how did you meet him? Are you going to Pakistan? Just curious. I would like to think there is a story like this that is successful.

  • anabellah

    October 4, 2015

    @Nina Persson, Welcome

    Thank you very much for sharing about your life and your thoughts on the matter. The best to you and your as you set out on a life together :-)

  • Nina Persson

    October 4, 2015
    i do agree there are fortune seekers in many countries who would come to US or Europe if they have a chance. There are no smoke without fire and truth is behind the words I read here. I just have to say I am from Sweden and I will marry a man from Pakistan. He is totaly open and honest and give me every prove I need to reduce my doubts. He is hardworking comes from a good family and have money. I am invited to visit his family, and for them being strict Muslims but not narrow I feel even more secure in my choice. They have accepted me as their sons future wife. He is kindhearted and a true humanist, also driven and ambitios. We will start a family. So yes one must be careful, to go into things with open eyes. If you are so inlove that you can’t see clear and close you’re eyes for things that don’t feel right then you’re out in deep water and maybe you need to consult friends and family for advice. We all have responsibilities for ourselves too. If something doesn’t feel alright, it probably isn’t. If it’s too good to be true, it proberbly is.
  • Rachael Lorenz-Stockdale

    September 20, 2015
    i would luv 2 marry a pakistani man. we could eatz garlic nanz 2gether
  • anabellah

    September 14, 2015

    @Gail,

    We’ll said!!!

    Women have a tendency to think that just becuz they are foreign to the Pakistani man that they are special. What makes any woman think she is better than the Pakistani woman? If the Pakistani man treats the Pakistani women like sh!t, he will treat all women the same way. He simply charmes the pants off the foreign woman. When she’s hooked, he lets his true colors show. He reveals himself. It’s a bit too late then. They school those men.

    Sure, Pakistan doesn’t have the exclusive on the scam. Not anyone else from other countries are coming up in hear complaining about their men It’s a Pakistani epidemic.

    Zahra was a fortunate one. I’m glad she’s helping us to educate others.

  • Gail

    September 14, 2015
    Zahra,

    U r doing a great deed to warn other woman about the pitfalls if marrying a Pakistani man.I am very proud of u! I think India men r the same exact way as well as much as I have figured out.I think a general good rule of thumb to go by is if the man is from a poor country be aware be very aware.
    Men r masters at sweet talking woman and woman sadly fall for the man hook line and sinker.Beautiful or ugly woman fall for these cheap tricks.Woman and girls need to be educated.I truly consider this immigration fraud a crime against woman and children.
    I am not saying countries should ban certain countries but education is the key I believe.Not every woman is going to listen and will marry the Pakistani man but at least when he starts acting up she will be aware of whats really going on and will not second guess herself or think something is wrong with her or it is her fault.

  • anabellah

    September 13, 2015

    @ummo f4, Wa Alaikum As Salamm

    It’s no problem. Thank you much for helping, Zahra. Every Muslim needs to have a Holy Quran. It’s our guide to life.

  • ummof4

    September 13, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all

    Zahra and others, an organization that may be able to provide you with free Qur’aans in English and Spanish is

    http://www.whyislam.org or call 1-877-WHYISLAM

    Ana, I hope it’s okay to give out this info.

  • Zahra

    September 13, 2015
    Salaam @ana @ummo

    Yes I do I m guiding all that women we use to say paisanas here like sisters what they are risking and expecting about those men who trying to use the women for scamming on some other countries but my case is mostly plakistan.on whicj other countries it happens ?? Tell me pls cos i donr know.
    @ummo my mothee language is spanish. I also speak english but i think if i could find a place where i can get mt Holy Quran in spanish Or how to get. I ll be so happy and blessed Allah Hafiz

  • anabellah

    September 13, 2015

    @Zahra, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Insha Allah, you could school some of the ladies whom you know are looking for love in all the wrong places (Pakistan).

    A woman only has to research the country, the status of women and their treatment to know what to expect from Pakistani men. Their mentality doesn’t mean change just because they meet a foreign woman.

    As Lynnette stated, women in the West are just full of themselves and self- importance. A woman is a woman. Righteousness makes the difference. The one who is the most righteous is the better one.

  • ummof4

    September 13, 2015
    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    Zahra, what language do you want the Qur’aan in? English or Spanish? I say Spanish because I think you said you are Latino. Please correct me if I am wrong.

  • Zahra

    September 13, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum @ana @gail @ummair. And everyone hoping all u doing well.
    How are you gail ? I m including you in my prayings.

    Yesterday i found the embassy finder page of my country with a blog of thousands of girls in my country trying to bring a pakistani here or go there and how … i cant believe why we all are getting involved with this guys in that such amazing grade ! And it is incresing how we latin are more and more interested about find the love of our lives in Pakistan. 10 women from my country sent me email with lots of doubts i gave thm that link cos i cannot be a judge just share my experience with the man i trusted. We like single moms sometimes feel in need of care and love those pakis know it well and also they are charming then who cannot fall in love with someone who gives u the moon and stars and treat women as a queen then passing some time and with the trust all gained he shows themselves their dark side.
    Anyways im happy in peace cos Allah always with me im improving my knowledge. Is sad i dont have Holy Quran in my hands yet but i have App i read Suras i perform salaat i did a good Ramadan month Alhamdulillah and my Duas all the times as my possibilities. cos either there is one thing i fear is just Allah ..my almighty. Allah hafiz

  • anabellah

    September 11, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I’ve learned so much about Pakistan, the culture and the people, and keep learning more and more, the more that I read here. I get very disgusted and sad by what I learn. Islam means the world to me and to think that there is a whole country of people calling themselves Muslims, but have no Islam is disheartening. It’s very sad that the darker complexion people there are left to feel inferior to the lighter ones; the people put bleaching cream all over their faces because they don’t like how Allah has made them (Allah says He created everyone in perfect proportion) and the people considering the darker ones ugly. Islam isn’t supposed to see color, but there is no Islam in many of the people there. Then they wonder why their condition is as it is and there seems to be no hope. Allah doesn’t help people who don’t serve and worship Him. He gives them respite and still provides for them.Their fate on this planet looks very bleak. Right now it appears hopeless for them.

    I’ve learned enough now to know just to focus my attention on educating the foreign women who are about to embark on a marriage to the Pakistani men. To let them know what they should look out for and expect. It’s about all that I can do. Other than it, I don’t have much more to say about Pakistan and the people. Allah tells us to leave people alone and let them be. The saying goes – to you your way and to me mine. I intend to mind my business, otherwise. Allah says don’t grieve over those who have no faith.

  • anabellah

    September 11, 2015

    @Gail,

    I know it is very hard for you right now mentally and all kinds of way, but you’ve got this. You can do it. Divorce is never easy. You’re handling really good, considering. It still is not over till it’s over. No one knows what is in store for us for tomorrow.

    Your children love you and want to help as best they can. No child want to see their mom hurting inside. It sounds you all will be just fine. You have a close nit family and you are all it – a family – wanting to help take care of one another. It is a beautiful thing.

    Some men are stubborn and refuse to sleep elsewhere when there’s a domestic dispute. They are territorial. It’s a manly thing. No one knows what men are up to. It’s best not to focus on them so much. Nothing in life is guaranteed when it comes to man (as in mankind). Only God can be trusted and depended on.

    I’m glad you’re set up in your home the way you like and you are comfortable there. Make sure you get him to pay a decent alimony. You two were married for a good amount of time and he should be required to pay a good amount to help you care for yourself and the children. {{{hugs}}}

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015
    Umair,

    No he is waiting for his dad to leave back to Pakistan in the next few weeks.He refuses to sleep on the couch or go to the garage apt and sleep.We talk only regarding work otherwise not.As far as Pakistani men go my husband is from Pindi and he is light complected and is a very good looking guy to be honest.He has an awesome personality towards others and he has always been very nice to me but he never could give me the time i needed and when i figured out he was mixing up with other woman and stealing stuff I just started hating him inside.I started figuring out he was a con artist and I really screwed up.In the meantime I had found my first love on FB and we reconnected as friends and he started begging me to divorce my husband and marry him.I thought I could make the marriage work/suffer it for the kids sake until they were older but then he started talking about marrying them off to cousins and at that point I decided I need to be very careful because this man is dangerous for not only me but my kids.
    That is why I am concentrating on my health now because I have already had cancer once and I have alot of health problems that make my life difficult.I am thinking these r going to end up being small health issues.I do feel much better these days overhaul.

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015
    Ana,

    It is so hard on me right now mentally but I am not showing it.He refuses to sleep elsewhere.I do keep my distance and his dad is acting like a pr!ck the same as Mari2 mom inlaw was acting.The kids know he is leaving come Jan and they ask me about it and i tell them yes this is correct.My youngest worries about money all the time because we spent so much money on building up r property this season he is upset.
    I told him we will be fine we will work the truck and I will teach him to sell so next season so we can faster.He liked that idea.It’s funny because he knows I am a saver type person and I sometimes think he feeds off my anxiety.
    The kids have nothing to do with the dad or my father inlaw.They r counting down the days until my FIL leaves.I honestly have thought to kick my FIL out of the home but it would cause a huge fight and right now my husband is giving me money that I am saving and it is only 2 or 3 weeks max and he is out of here so I am being patient and saving money.We bought a 3 bedroom mobile that we moved into that is pretty cute and I am satisfied.I am back on my property living in the very back of the property which I am really liking very much.I did splurge and bought new appliances for my house that I totally love.
    Other than the financial situation I will be happy to have them all gone from my life.My middle son is coming up now and will be able to drive come next year and that will help me out alot if I need to have surgeries or just to go get milk and bread from the store.He can change tires and do things that will help me out.
    I really feel we will fine in the long run.I hate my husband for what he has done to me over the years.I really believe he has cheated on me over the years so it makes it much easier.He is not even trying to mix up with me sexually but that is no real shocker since he is mixing up elsewhere which leads me to believe he is up to know good and has been for a long time.I have confronted him about a month back and he said I am wrong but he is chatting with someone on the net and he has his phone close.It really don’t matter at this point because I believe in my mind he is is a proven liar and a thief and I am over it.
    On the flip side I am excited for the future and traveling with my kids and getting more involved in real estate.
    As far as my love life.I have some hopes on that side as well in the future but for right now I am being patient and just waiting to see how my life turns out.

  • Umair

    September 11, 2015
    @Gail,i know you don’t have to tell me,even the ugly cursed dark hair Pakistani girl is treated like that with massive verbal curses as a “Cursed for our family”,even though the mother’s son & sisters brother is ugly as “F..K like worse than “Shrek”Donkey & asks for Miss Universe/World???

    You must have come across a Pakistani like me,you would haven’t gone down that path & ruined your life like that.Listen,it’s hard for anyone to accept other children,even me with already ready made children or bagggage,same goes for women no matter how nice she is.That’s the reason most women stay in PAKISTAN’S Cursed marriage with their lives ruined by their parents by looking at “MONEY” of guy & house of his family,but he is a real Low life or subhuman…

    @Gail,describe how is your husband?Like dark,black,thin,black eyes.I am fair but most men are not like that in PK,as you rightly said.It depends on the area of PK which is a big part,some cities people are just outright Manipulative Subhumans as compared to other cities…That’s why all the wrath of Allah on PK,because their is NO Trait of being a Muslim…

    I can imagine his smile wiped off the face,as soon as you said i hope no one does that to his sister’s daughter or sister,get another girl while his sister is pregnant.All the FAKE HONOUR/DIGNITY will woke up in his sole…Like you did with other person’s daughter…Rest in PK say,GOD do the faith of girl as good as possible(Khuda Beti ke naseeb achay karay),when you marry to a “Sub Human” or Skunks(Alcohol/Drugs),then sorry GOD(ALLAH) can’t do anything as well…Tell me who moved out,did he go to other room or you,because it’s really hard to stay under one roof.All his family in US after getting citizenship?You must have a taunt/jibe”May GOD have good faith of the daughter of your sister or sister,hopefully her husband marry 3-4 women & stick with your sister”!

  • anabellah

    September 11, 2015

    @Gail,

    Here is the link to the other post I wrote you. http://www.polygamy411.com/september-2015-discussions/#comment-9788

    My mom had the same surgery that you will have with the biopsy. Don’t worry. It’s a piece of cake. Insha Allah, stop worrying about going under anesthesia. It’s when a person worry that the person have problems. Don’t be morbid and think about going under or you just may do it LOL 6 feet. I’m sorry Gail; I had to do it LO

    I talked to my mom today, but totally forgot to ask her what they determine was the problem. She had those excruciating pains the same as you. Insha Allah, I will try to reach her tomorrow. My mom is always on the go, so it’s difficult for me to catch up with her sometimes. The woman still dates, if you can believe it. She’s 79 years old.

    She didn’t have her gallbladder removed. Two of my sisters did though, but it was years and years ago.

    Gail, I was wondering how you were going to make out living in the house with him now. It has to be agonizing. I wouldn’t suggest you move into the garage. The heck with that. He’d have to go into the garage before I would. I’m no attorney, but I remember something about leaving the marital residence and it not being good for your case. You need to stay put and try to distance yourself from him as much as possible, somehow.

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015
    Umair,

    When I went to Pakistan I was light brown hair and blue eyes and everyone just made the biggest fuss over me.One thing funny though they seen my freckles and asked me if i had a disease.I died laughing and had to explain fair skin white people have freckles.
    My sister inlaw that is half black and half white that flat told me she is ugly as sin.I was shocked they were so abusive in there words toward her.

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015
    Ana,

    No I didn’t see that post about your mom.I am curious if she had gastritis.I assume u would know if she had her gallbladder removed.I don’t know what these pains are but it is rough because mine go up in my chest.If u find out let me know.I have to go for my first procedure Monday to check my gallbladder function then on thursday I go for the stomach biopsy and scope.I am worried because I do have to be put under.My husband is getting worse.I have to figure something out because I can’t live this way all winter with him this way.I may have to move out to my garage apartment the children and I.I refuse to live this way.
    I will admit I was bad today but boy did it feel good to be bad.lol
    He was all happy and told me that his sister had her baby it was a girl.Well I seen my shot so I took it and said Oh dang another girl she better be careful popping out so many girls or her husband is going to get a second wife.Man he lost his smile real fast.I looked at him and said is it not right they desire boys over girls and he gave me a go to H@ll look and said no.Needless to say I stated giggling inside and laughing.It felt good to drag him under the bus like he did me with the kids.His dad was standing there and heard every word I said,Needless to say his dad is also not talking to me.lol

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar,

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam. I’m so happy that you decided not to go to Pakistan to marry your now ex-intended. Alhumdulliah. I have a feeling it’s one of the best thing you could ever have done.

    You weren’t being silly. As you said, you are in love. Love makes us do crazy things. You aren’t alone. Anyone who has ever been in love should know how it is. It’s okay. I’m glad you you stuck it out with us, as we could be a tough bunch to get along with. I know I can be. I never meant to hurt you. You are my sister-in-faith.

    You’re welcome to stay here with us. If you just want to talk about anything, we’re here for you {{{hugs}}}

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 10, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum .
    I m white blonde honey eyes im skinni mini and tall but who cares my appereance if i proudly hide by my hijab and clothes cos i no need to show just my kind heart to others. The pakistaní men average are black skin and i love it thin and big eyes…as my x but behind a pretty face there are lots of things i never found before in noone : he madw me feel like i was the only woman in the world…. by the way i left the idea of coming to pakistan at least not with him.. hugs and blessings for everyone thank God yoy write to me I throwed my dumb idea about he really loved me and accepted me As it seemed. Sorry for be so silly but i was really in love and still.. should move on ..thank you all Allah hafiz
  • Umair

    September 10, 2015
    Na again few other points are not correct in conclusion of the analysis.

    As White colour is the ultimate colour with blue eyes with like a big deal to get a girl of blonde hair & blue eyes.Haven’t GAIL mentioned how much “Fair & Lovely” used by women in Pakistan?Even fair girls in Pakistan are off very high demand with long stature,even dull colour which is known as “Sanwali” in Urdu in Pakistani language or black colour girl with no beauty is rejected on her face,same goes for men,women look same thing with no beard,clean shave men with NO SMELL…So everyone looks what is good for him/her.A big factor is children which will be UGLY as F…. Hell from the dull colour ugly women(You have to get the psych or mentality of Pakistani families),there is no offence in that every one wants best for themselves…The white or fair Pakistani tall girl marry within seconds,even mothers want a daughter in laws like that,if she has good face & good character(What else do you want)?You have hit the jackpot or in paradise on earth,will groom or raise children well…

    Yes,even myself children are the job of women as raising is her job,with so much financial issues,men have to work can’t raise children now…This is too much,if you are asking that…WOMEN usually work,so it’s expected that they will be available to children everytime or school meetings.Now the things are getting so expensive,that both hands to push the household,if she says i was like this at my parents,well either bring from parents or work with me.It is a sign of respect to NOT let her work,she is given money as pocket money & get the shopping done by husbands(IF THEY ARE GOOD),if they are BAD(SHE IS TIED & TRAPPED IN MARRIAGE)….

    People are avoiding buying EID Meat for Qurbani,due to pig,donkey,dog,dead animals meat in the supply chain in Lahore for sure with govt. stamps from slaughter houses,which we have shut down big time but the mentality is big time…Why Lahore?,because it sell for more with expensive prices than other cities,so lentils or vegetables are looked for EID.People have stopped eating from high end restuarents,all done by “Ayesha Mumtaz” name in everyone’s mind,she is in the MEN DOMAIN,usually it’s the man who is the DG or Head of “Punjab Food Authority”,reason being is that when you go to SHUT DOWN these businesses,there is firing or cross firing,so Ayesha has to go back with men can cope with firing big time with the area hear the noises of AK-47.

    Zahra,if you are dying to go to PK,go to bigger cities(Lahore,Islamabad,Karachi) with someone male of your family(Brother,Father) etc etc…One more thing is wrong mentioned on the forum,a married uncle type mature man of 40’s/50’s as divorcee will marry women who is divorcee,but sometimes he even asks to have a virgin girl,but that is like “Small face,big talk”…Bachelors will ask that,who hadn’t put mouth here & there,mostly men,in few cases there are women.Yes if some beautiful white blondie girl & blue eyes is set,it’s a big thing and i will tell the whole city of Lahore & family like Mirranda Kerr,Jessica Alba,Scarlett Johonson,Angelina Jolie,Emily Ratwoski(Sorry can’t remember precise name),Candice Swapnel etc etc..This is a big deal in that country,you white guys are looking to get “TAN”,with Pakistani people are looking to get white day by day(What you don’t have got,mind is always curious).If you are cute Hispanic that’s fine as well,Jennifer Lopez.But the best is the beautiful blue eyes blondie girl is the one tried the best to set…Search on You Tube,Social media now a days even setting foot in the country now a days…

    You know & i know how children of Muslims are who are married to White girls for Citizenship/Nationality with the children going in mini mini tiny tiny clothes,with father does nothing….On the passports,ID cards it’s writeen “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”,but there is not much ISLAMIC,it’s just hypocrisy…Have Gail or anyone seen Mujras which are done in Lahore or Farm house parties in PK?

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    Gail,

    It will be interesting to see what becomes of your husband. A person can’t do dirt to other people and think it won’t come back to bite him in the @$$. It’s just crazy. I see the same thing happening with you and Mari2. Now, your husband is making plans to move himself and his parents away from you. I see clearly that all of it is not Islam in any sense of the word.

    Stay strong. I know it’s a difficult time for you. Try to focus on your health and getting better. It’s what’s important now. I agree with you that stress plays a huge part in a person’s health. What one eats is a major factor, as well. I’m hopeful all will go well for you with your surgeries. I don’t know if you had seen an earlier post I wrote to you. I mentioned that about a couple months ago my mom had the same surgery that you will have. They put her under, checked her stomach and did a biopsy. The results came back good for her. She was having those pains that you were having and once had to go to the Emergency room due to it. I don’t know what more the doctor said to her. I suppose I should ask. Insha Allah, I’ll call her later today.

  • Gail

    September 10, 2015
    Spirited,

    Hey how r u? I am doing fine just trying not to dwell on things to much and go with the flow.I am concentrating on my health right now.
    I don’t know but I just have given up even wanting to try anymore.I don’t feel all the negative feedback I get from him is worth it anymore.I don’t know what my future holds for my children and I but I am sure we will be fine.I actually feel we r going to be more happy because we will not be dragged down by my husband and his insanity anymore.

  • Gail

    September 10, 2015
    Ana,

    Yes I have yet to see a Pakistani man be a good stepfather.In all honesty they r not eve good fathers because they r always so busy working they never have time to spend quality time with there kids they just let their wives handle the kids.
    As far as my own husband I have never considered him a good father much less a good stepfather to my oldest son.My oldest son I will admit is a hard kid to love always has been but my husband made no effort ever to help that kid.He never minds taking his parents anywhere they need to go feed them etc.. but he has no problem to ignore his children.I don’t know I swear I do not get it.All I do know is that his parents are going to die and he is going to try to go sit with the kids and they r going to blow him off in the future this is what I do know.
    I predict he will have to remarry in the future just to get attention because his children and I will have moved on with our lives without him.

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    ***Important Message***

    Umair and Gail had brought up a very, very good and important point that I need to elaborate on. Gail said most Pakistani males do not make good step-fathers. Umair said Pakistani men don’t want the baggage of a ready made family (some other man’s children). He said it’s pretty much universal. Furthermore, we’ve all heard the stories of children who are abused by step-fathers, foster parents and others as well.

    It’s a prime example of what the Ayah (verse) in the Quran means when Allah says if a man can’t be fair, then marry only one. He is talking about justice and fairness to the orphans. Most Muslim don’t know the meaning of the ayah and/or don’t want to know it. Those, especially, who dislike polygamy don’t want to accept the true meaning of the ayah. They want to hold on the the erroneous meaning to support their dislike of polygamy, and try to prevent men from becoming polygamous.

    A man can love more than one woman easily. It’s not difficult for him. It’s no big deal. It doesn’t work the same way with children. A man knows before he ever commits to a marriage to a woman who already has children by another man/men whether he could love those children or not. He knows whether he likes children. He knows whether he would like or not like the woman’s orphan children. It’s easy to know before a marriage takes place. The children without their biological father with them are considered orphans.

    In a case such as with Pakistani men who follow culture that says the man is to marry a virgin, he knows he wants no part of another man’s child. He knows neither he or his family will accept the woman children by another man/men. The ayah would apply to him. He is not to marry that woman with children by another man. He is to marry only the woman who has his children or has no children at all.

    I’m glad the subject came up. Those who can see and not blinded by desire understand the ayah. Those who Allah does not guide, won’t understand the ayah, but find something crooked in it. The ayah does not refer to a man being fair and just with women otherwise he is to marry only one. It is NOT the meaning. It pertains to the ORPHANS. People are to be fair, just and kind with EVERYONE, if the person doesn’t fight you for them about their faith ( the other is the aggressors). Special emphasis is placed on justice to orphans. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was an orphan.

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    @Spirited,

    Thank you for telling us about the problem that your cousin encountered and about the meat being sold as fresh, but was carrion. The charging foreigners higher prices than the natives is something common in other countries such as Egypt and Morocco, as well, so I’ve heard. It all falls under the ayat in the Holy Quran. We are instructed to give fair weight and measure. So much wrong exist in the world today. Allah says it exist to see who is best in conduct. He already know who is. He knows everything before we were even born. He created us. Only we are the ones who don’t know.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    Hey, Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam my friend,

    I’m so happy you stopped in and spoke to Zahra. I was thinking of you and hoping you would.

    @Zahra,

    Spirited is Pakistani, straight up and pure Pakistani, but a good breed… If you don’t listen to her, of all people, you’re kooku in the head to put it mildly.

  • Spirited

    September 9, 2015
    Salaam guys,

    Just popping in, I haven’t had much of a point where I could add anything useful lately :)

    @Gail, sorry to hear about your latest news, but if you’re good with it, then more power to ya.

    @Zahra, I have to agree with the other ladies warning you. You said he told you all of his family is waiting for you to get them out of there. That should be a big blinking warning right there. They only want to use you. It isn’t worth it. You can visit Pakistan some other time, with some other people. By the way, most people there, NOT ALL, but most only seem hospitable in videos and stuff because they want your foreign money $$$$$$.

    I have a good story about that. One of my cousins doesn’t look Pakistani, but he is. He went to a store and immediately the guys at the store started talking about telling him higher prices for the things because he must be foreign and they can get more money out of him. They thought he couldn’t understand them. He understood everything they said. He pretended he didn’t know the language and asked them things in English to see what kind of prices they tell him. He knew the acceptable rates for the items he asked about. Then after they told him jacked up prices, he started yelling at them in Urdu and they were embarrassed. Probably only embarrassed about not catching an actual foreigner (instead of being embarrassed about being lying scum). Also, there has been alot of disturbing news about carrion meat being sold as fresh meat, as well as donkey and horse meat being sold as cow or lamb in Pakistan, so if you went alone, you wouldn’t know where it is safe to buy food from. Even cooking oil was found to be sourced from dead animals not too long ago at one place in the country.

    No morals.

    Talk to guys later.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Gail,

    When I first read what Ummof4 wrote that she knows some white people who would like to be black and vice versa, I thought it was the first I had heard anything like it (a white wanting to be black). Now thinking about it, it’s probably the white youths who act like blacks, talk like them, dress like them and walk like them. It’s a “cool” thing. You’ve probably seen the white ones with the pants hanging off their @$$es with their underwear showing. It’s like the white people who try to grow dreadlocks and it’s a hot mess. They need to cut that crap out cuz it one hideous sight. There are people who wished to be other than what they are.

  • Gail

    September 9, 2015
    Ana,

    I read Zarha’s Post I feel she is to much emotionally invested and is going to end up going to marry this boy.I hate to see it happen but for sure we have warned her and she will repent later on.Some people just have to go through stuff like u said it may be written for her to through this hell.It is true Pakistani people have this strange thing for white skin.I would never have believed it had I not saw it for myself.To me that is like a white person wanting to be black seems A$$ Backwards to me but what do I know.lol

    Zarha,

    I have one serious question for u because from the way u r talking u come across as u r emotionally invested in this boy and he has toyed with u enough that u believe his lies.
    I want to know all bullcrap aside are u going to accept polygamy in the future because I am telling u clear u better get ready sister.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar,

    The last non-white person who was thinking about marrying a Pakistani man, said said to Gail, “I’m not white, but I’m very beautiful”. Gail responded by saying, “I don’t care how beautiful you are, you are not the right color?” ROFLMAO I got a good laugh out of that one.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I never once thought that you are ugly. I believe you are probably very beautiful. Latino women are some very exotic and pretty women. I’m sure he thinks you are all that. I’m sure you’re very loving and caring. To still consider him after all you’ve heard, you have got to be that. He may very well have some love in his heart for you. Love doesn’t matter when it comes to his family. They are about family and keeping everything in the family. The way we view love, they don’t. When his mother tells him to jump, he’ll ask, how high? They live and die for their mother and family. It’s not about you. It’s the part of the picture that you do not see.

    I’m sorry, if he kills himself, it’s his problem and a huge one that he’ll face in the Hereafter. Umair said something about the Pakistani woman (if I understood correctly). She would have responded by asking, what are you waiting for – when he said he was going to kill himself. Do you really want to be with a pathetic person that threatens to off himself whenever he doesn’t get what he wants? I’m not feeling anything in my heart for him, so it’s easy for me to say – let him do it.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 9, 2015
    Salaam Ana.. yes a the things you wrote are the harsh and cold true.. i was trying just to believe hes differnt and he could make the difference about pakistanies with me. Yes i am Latin and not ugly i m lovable caring then i thought my virtues could matter for him. My only and last big fear is about he could him herself and send me some vide or pics could shocked on me about him hurting i m weak about i dont know can i manage it in the worst of the cases he commit suicide as he said. I left him 2 weeks ago but he still looking for me as mad despite i cutted all the ways of contact. For me one year is a life maybe for him i was some green bills just Allah knows.. gi I feel like a granma now with the lines you wrote and so sad cos i m not virgin but what can i do he met me that way. :( I really thought he was really interested in my person and the way i behave but i totally agree with all whst u kindly write and im so thankful.im just finding a way for run away and dissapear from him without being much hurted.
  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    Oh, Zahra Gujar, I forgot to mention the other thing you’ve got going against you. You are 29 years old. He is 23. In the U.S. you are still considered young. In Pakistan, you are consider OLD. You are just about past the age of marriage in their eyes. Add that with the list of all else going against you, what do you have in your favor? The only thing you’ve got is that you love him and he pretends to love you. He love you for money…

    I’m sorry for being so harsh. It seems it’s the only language you may truly understand.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I feel for the guy. I feel for him for what he’s going through and what his family is putting him through. It is very, very sad. I don’t feel for him enough to tell you to go be his and his families meal ticket out of Pakistan. It’s crazy. You’ve read the stories on this blog. You’ve spoken to our dear Gail here who has lived it. Her husband used her for citizenship. I didn’t want to believe it and still don’t. He is divorcing her and has put her on notice. He is out of there the first of the new year. She has a biological son with the man. She adopted his son that he had with the ex-wife. She has his and the ex-wife’s daughter. She has a son from a previous marriage, as well. She devoted 12 years of her life to the man. He’s now going to throw her out like a piece of trash. It’s one thing for a marriage to simply not work due to incompatibility and such. It’s another to have someone straight up use you for material gain and discard you like rubbish.

    Umair is Pakistani. He let you know that no Pakistani man wants a woman who is not a virgin. No Pakistani man wants any other man’s kids. The Pakistani’s don’t respect any woman who comes to Pakistan to get with a Pakistani man. It’s not their culture/way of life. It’s not what women are expected to do there. He and Gail have said the people there laugh at women who send the men money. You are Hispanic. You are not even the white – the type that they want. You are nothing more than Money Pile What more do you need to hear???

    I tell you what. GO! Perhaps it’s what was written for you. Maybe it’s the life you are meant to live. You can’t heed warning. Live it and learn it.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 9, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum Ummair Ana Gail and everyone peace be upon you marie..
    I have been reading all the post and following all your advises but i cannot finish to understan my x fiance.
    Yesterday he called me and show me he booked the ticket for going to pakistan. My ticket and i just stayed speechless. He said if u dont come my family will kill me and i asked to him: why you like crazy wanting I go to pakistam ? How you get the money for my tour and I think Is not Allah s plan I think you are forcing everything.. he replied: MY ALL FAMILY KNOWS YOU ARE MY BRIGHT FUTURE and each day my family in pakistan becomes more poor.. i started crying asking myself how i felt on it. Why I have been enrolled on it and why my heart was so fool and blind due our relation. He demanding me i must get some money for my tour but he alreday knows i have modest salary i m not rich. But i have enough for kids and expenses.
    I watched lot of videos about pakistan im not scare of people seems to me are very hospitalary kind and nice i could die either i go but in other circumstances. With nice people or alone but seems is very weird and dangerous for western woman also traveling alone.im in love with the Punjab the biryani roti lassi the big truck decorated wow i Love Pakistan but i dont like liars and cheater people. And indeed if i dont come there he will kill himself because all punjab knows he will marry a western who will change the life of each family member rather im simple single woman with a big heart full of dreams but also fears like currently i cant trust noone no more. I would liked to visit Pakistan as tourist with blessed and trustable people.: Allah Hafiz
  • Gail

    September 9, 2015
    Umair,

    Yes I am 44 to be exact and have been married 12 yrs to my Pakistani husband.I have pretty much seen every trick in the Pakistani book at this point.I have lived off and on over the years and visited Pakistan many times in between.The longest I have lived in Pakistan was 2 years but it was long enough and of course we always come and go and live there 3 or 4 months during winter months.It has been 3 yrs since I have been there and I have no intentions to ever set foot back in Pakistan until my children are grown and married adults.I truly do not even want my children mixing up with Pakistan at all to be frank with the exception of my excowife.I don’t mind and even encourage them to visit with her in the future but I am teaching them all that glitters is not gold and all 5 fingers are the same when it comes to Pakistan so they will understand and know the truth and not just believe what people spew out of their mouths about them.In other words don’t believe all the BS because they have value being USA citizens and don’t get hooked on sweet words so they don’t get trapped.Education is the best way to fix this problem in my opinion.
    My husband has let it be known he is leaving me come the first of the year and I should get ready.My mentality is why wait get to stepping now.I am so much at peace with my life and so happy to be moving on with my children.
    As far as Ashad he can think what he wants I really don’t care.I have live in a joint Pakistani family here in USA and in Pakistan for the past 12 yrs I am no longer naive and understand everything.I am on a mission to protect my kids from getting trapped.Just today we were studying racism in America and I told my children it goes on all over the world.I told my daughter Syed Men marrying their daughters to only other Syed men is a form of Racism.I told her straight we must never stand for Racism and my son.I also told them people r simple and do not see it as racism but it is and it is silly.I told them straight let people do what they r doing u just say your peace and stay on your track and never look back at those people.They r better than that.

  • Umair

    September 8, 2015
    @ Zahra,i have read your post but you are not the smartest with any men can manipulate or used.This is what they say to Pakistani girls,but they are smart & say go ahead today instead of Friday…Mostly the suicide is done,when a women betray him & marry someone else by her parents sake or honour.He hangs himself with the fan,with rope in the neck…Still that is HARAM in Islam,leaving his family to mourn & cry.That mentality rises from there,”If you are NOT mine,you are NOT of anyone”…Psychotic level love triats…

    @ Gail,i agree with you too.You looks like you are in 40’s with seen significant or enough Pakistani culture the hard way should i say?You are absolutely right for Zahra,make a decision either go ahead & learn the hard way,because i don’t see 23 yrs old even 53 yrs old man can accept your children as his own,it has nothing to do with Pakistani OR Forget it & never mention again.I know it’s hard but needs to be done.

    Yes Gail is also right,the amount of Harrasment in Pakistan of other women who are not in Family is beyond anything with NO WOMEN can go alone even at day time…PAKISTAN as an individual level very honourable/dignified nation(Your own sisters/mothers),but collectively about others sisters/mothers it’s the most “BASTARD” nation to be honest…That’s why Stray men are NOT allowed & vetted very quickly irrespective of sweet talking,polite demenour snakes are filtered or checked in character checks & background checks of the Mr.Nice guy Prince Charming…It is all mirage or fraud.

    In Pakistan,thinking is same as “Arshad”,i read his comment but waiting for you “Gail” to comment or Ana,with young girls & boys are NOT spared,had it NOT been the FEAR(TERROR) of honour killings or killings of the Stray Dog type men,it will be rampant on the roads in broad daylight,just see or have you read the incident in Saudi Arabia of women harrased by mob of men on EID in Makkah,as if they just came out shopping,with all men charged…This is all on top in the society to save honour & dignity but if go a bit deep inside,the most hypocrite people with every thing in offices,cars,parks,houses but open they are going to be caught with severe consequences…Boys do go after girls like a dog,with her way to school/college/Uni./Workplace is a hell if she is using public transport(Bus.Rickshaw,Van) etc.This makes Pakistani very Frustrating with looking porn on the internet & cable Hollywood/Bollywood channel & outside it’s Burqa Galore or you CAN’T do anything with getting set takes atleast 35-40 yrs…Now a days everything can be seen…Arshad,these women have been ruined or used for PR(Immigration),as soon as their husbands get the Citizenship,the very day he will divorce them or USED them,this was rampant before now these people are getting wise…Citizenship of such countries US/UK/AUS/CAN the good countries they use to be in 80’s,90’s.

    Note:I just want to add,that it would be better if you can see or video chat with people.

  • anabellah

    September 8, 2015

    I wasn’t sure what point Arshed Mahmood was trying to make. The article states what some of those men are doing. He speaks of why the Pakistani men are good for Western women. The thing is those men don’t do what Arshed said when in the West. I’ve known all the women married to those men to work. None of what he said refute the fact of what we know some of them do.

    Gail made a good point about the massive Gay problem that exist in Pakistan. They won’t mess with the girl’s, but have no problem banging the boys for relief. Then the women get stuck marrying one of them – I suppose. Perhaps a western woman would meet one of them online.

  • Gail

    September 8, 2015
    Arshed Mahmood,

    Are u trying to say that American and other foreign woman are cheap so it is ok to use them for immigration and divorce them then bring their Pakistani wife and kids to USA because it sure came across that way in your post.
    I want to clearly say u r delusional if u r going to sit here and pretend like Pakistan is so Saintly when I know for a fact that kids r mixing up in Pakistan esp… the boys.What u think Pakistani teenagers don’t want sex and they r not out walking behind the girls day dreaming of sexing them?Is it not a fact that so many young boys and teen boys are doing gay sex because they can’t get a girl?U are very quick to point blame at Americans.
    Pakistani people are flat out liars and cheaters the majority of them and would not know the truth if it slapped them in the face yet somehow u can write a post that somehow justifies Pakistani culture over American culture.
    We may have alot wrong in American culture but one thing I can say as compared to Pakistan USA people are very straight forward for the most part are still straightforward people.
    When u try to compare Pakistan culture to American culture u r trying to compare Apples to oranges because believe u me if the kids were not terrified of getting killed the boys would be all over the girls same like USA.

  • Marie

    September 8, 2015
    Arshed mahmood

    Id just like to comment on one of your points. you said “your” muslim women do not work and rule the home like a queen. Its a shame your culture, wrongfully does not allow women to work. sooner or later you are going to contradict yourself, because when your wife or sister gives birth, the first thing your going to want is a woman to help her, When your wife or sister has a medical problem that requires her expose an area that should be covered, your going to want a woman to help her. your culture rule of woman not working HARMS women, not helps them. You do not want your Women to work, study or leave the home and then expect them to teach the children, deliver babies, take care of medical problems and in case’s where a woman husband has died or is too lazy be the breadwinner. All this without an education or a job.

    @All, these are just examples, a woman may want to work just because she wants to. just proving a point.

  • anabellah

    September 8, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I agree with you that some reverts/converts to Islam did their research to know Islam and understand it. It took me some time to realize and understand that many Muslims born in countries with a large population of Muslims or considered Muslim countries have people who were born of Muslim parents; the children took on the religion in that they say they are Muslim, but don’t know their religion based on the Holy Quran. They learned the culture of the people and country, but didn’t take the time to read the Quran and learn it.

    What happens is many reverts/converts just assumed, as I did, that anyone who says they are Muslim learned and knows what is in the Quran. Some reverts/converts get mislead as a result of following born Muslims and learn “culture”. I learned some stuff after I converted/reverted that was wrong and contradictory to what is in the Holy Quran. I had to unlearn it as I have to unlearn some of the culture I grew up with.

    There are Muslims that are reverts/converts that never read and learned the Quran either. They rely on others to tell them what Islam is about. Some think it’s simply wearing certain clothing and talking the talk (a few Arabic words and phrases) and certain etiquette they picked up. Who knows how often they offer their salat (prayers). Some people have told people that I know that they only offer salat at Friday Jumah prayer or during the Holy month of Ramadan or anytime the mood strikes them. It’s not surprising, as Allah swt said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that there would come a time when the Muslims would neglect prayer and follow lusts (wants, desires, wishes).

    “But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-” Quran: Surah 19, Ayah 59

  • Gail

    September 8, 2015
    Umair,

    I read your post and agree

  • Gail

    September 8, 2015
    Zahra,

    I hope for your sake u see this little $h!t for what he is now.He is just trying to manipulate u and u r buying into it hook line and sinker.Say u go there and marry him then he pulls this crap again in the future or is truly mentally unstable and hurts one of your kids.The writing is very clear that he is still very immature and is stupid for lack of a better word.
    It is not your fault he went around telling everyone like a dumb A$$ that he hooked a foreign woman and she is coming to immigrate/marry him.
    Again I am telling u straight make your mind either marry the idiot or cut him off.U got to get off the fence.
    Don’t ever feel sorry for someone that tries to manipulate u with sinfulness.That is the worse thing u could ever do.

  • anabellah

    September 7, 2015

    @Arshed Mahmood, Hello

    Thank you very much for your post. I’m sorry but I don’t understand how anything that you said in your post have anything to do with the topic of this thread. This thread is about Pakistani men who manipulate and con women in Western countries to marry them so they can gain citizenship and care for their families in Pakistan. They lie to the foreign wife and says he has no wife in Pakistan when he does or he goes back to Pakistan and marry a women there who is usually his cousin, making him a polygamous. He never let his foreign wife know about the marriage or he does, but had never informed her of his intent to marry another. The Pakistani men usually marry non-Muslim women who aren’t aware of what polygamy is or certainly doesn’t expect him to ever live it. Some swear that they aren’t married and would never engage in polygamy, but they lie. Most intend to do nothing but get what they can from the foreign wife for his and his family’s benefit. Many times they end up divorcing the foreign wife once they receive citizenship and move the Muslim wife and their families to the Unite States or whichever country it is. They are manipulative,con artist, lying, deceitful people preying on others who aren’t aware of the Pakistani culture. So, based on it, I don’t know how what you said has anything to do with it. If you are saying that Pakistani men are good people and make good husband, I’m sure there may be some, but from what we hear here, they are far and few between. They are the exception to the rule.

  • Arshed Mahmood

    September 7, 2015
    Hi
    The introduction of Pakistanis, you have made in your article, is not true. The picture is other way arround.
    Let’s face the reality of western man or woman in now a days society. An average youth of 10 to 12 years of age have at least one girl or boy friend in this tender age. It seems to be legel in your view, but in every sense it is in approperiate.
    So they start kissing, hugging or even penetrating without having a legal relation with him/her i.e marriage ( your legel rights only permit boys or girls to get married when they are 16 with parents consent and 18 without parent consent). In fact, they are already living as husband and wife since childhood. As they grow, they change their partner more frequently. Sometime, they have children even without marriage. SO radomly, a teeager girls get fuced off many times in this tender age. If girls has new born during this time, then boy if off the road and she has to suffer all alone (specially emotional stress).
    Many of your mature man or woman have many girls friends or boyfriends at the same time with and they do not mind till they reach at the age of maturity and then they realized that what they were doing, was wrong and now he/she has to get marry to live in remaining years.
    In Islam, a muslim is not allowed to have girlfriend or boyfriend and even not allowed any premaritial relationship. Why…….. for the follwoing reasons.
    (1): Islam considers the developement of society on purity, mutual respect and responsibility.
    (2): Islam considers the verginity of both man and woman very sacred and important and due to this reason, when couples get marry, they value and respect each other from the heart. WHY? because they are sured that each of them is pured and non of them is ever touch by other man/woman.
    (3): When any human being obey his/her creator rules, he/She is given special satisfection through devine blessing which is only sent to hearts by ONE GOD and to those who do not associate or ascribe any partner to him.
    (4): When man marries a woman, he takes responsibility to take care of her in all aspects. This is reason our muslim woman do not go to work and rule at home like queen.
    (5): Man is only allowed to marry other women if he has means to support her and also if he could do the justic between the both. Same condition applied when he marries upto 4. If man does not have mean to support, then one is sufficient for him.
    (6): Reason for establishing justice is that ON THE DAY OF JUSDGMENT they has to render his/her account how did he/she lived his/her life in this world.
    (7): Women is not allowed to have multiple husbands at the same time, because how would she know that the preganacy she is having belongs to which husband.

    The above are few of the many reasons that a muslim specially pakistani husband is more suitable to a western lady due to the fact that he will take of her responsibility and rule the home like a queen.

  • anabellah

    September 7, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam

    He’s trying to manipulate you. I believe he is telling the truth about the dishonor and all, but he’s just going to have to deal with it. You would be foolish to fly off to Pakistan to marry the man when you know that he is not right for you and your children. He would continue to try to control your life should you marry him. Nothing he talks about is about you and for you and the good of your children. It’s all about him.

    Allah tells us not to kill ourselves. It means don’t commit suicide. Some people get it twisted and think it means not to smoke a cigarette because the person will get cancer and die. SMH It’s not what it means.

    If a person commits suicide the person will go to the Hell Fire. The person who blows himself and others up, thinking he will go to Paradise and have 100 horrines (maidens) there was lied to by the person who told him to do it. The suicide bomber is going to the Hell Fire. No and, or, buts, ifs about it.

    Anyhow, getting back to your ex-intended. Let him kill himself. I know it’s sounds cold and harsh. Nonetheless, it’s not your problem. His problem is he is rebellious when it comes to Allah and doesn’t believe that there is a Hell Fire.

    Even if you were to marry him, what type of life do you expect to have with him? He is all about himself and no one else – other than his family. Would his family rather see him dead than to accept that you won’t marry him? Don’t make it your problem.

    Allah decides all things. Allah, before we were born, determined how when and how we will die. If your ex-intended is meant to off himself, there is nothing you could do to prevent it. Don’t put this on you. You don’t have the power to prevent his death. Remind him what Allah says about killing ourselves. If he doesn’t listen and commits Hara Kiri, so be it. Say your goodbye to him now, just in case. :-(

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 7, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum dear all !
    How are you ? I hope u fine.
    Yesterday my x fiance told me if u dont come to pakistan i will do wrong with me. I said whaat ?? He said i commit suicide.. zara you have just 3 days to find the way for coming.. you are ashaming my honour here with all my people..find the way for come otherwise friday is my last day i life. I was crying all night confused i no need nobody death and i feel so guilty noe he feels betrayed cos i said him im not going to pakistan. I havent any doubt he could hurt himself cos hes mad .. i told him : i put all in Allah s hand then he replied: i have 40000 dlls for pay ur ticket you have no choice you should come…. now i just wanna dissapear from earth…:( Allah Hafiz
  • Umair

    September 7, 2015
    @Annabel,yes Islam is just of name of fool people in Pakiland.The people who are reverted/converted are better muslims than born/granted muslims as they have done effort to understand ISLAM & done research to revert to ISLAM.

    Yes,Gail it’s really hard to stay with indoors,one reason they don’t get a separate house,you are absolutely right,son is the money for the mother or security as there is no social security in PK.Did your husband beat you,but what was the reason?Did you try to tell the Law Enforcement Authority(LEA’s_)

    Did you divorce your husband?When did you marry the faithful year?Don’t marry your children off to cousins,if they are not good.

    One more thing i want to make clear,it’s not only men’s background checks for character checks non other as you have to live with person,but not with the money or property or any thing with the result with acid throwing in extreme cases,beating & other cases even parents their daughter to have a beautiful life.

    So,it;s NOT only men but women Character checks,is she a S..T”???How many men she has gone out & how is her family are they skunk family???Is she wear BURQA outside but go inside wear mini dress,smoke,drink,narcotics(character checks) from neighbours,work place,where she go,whom she sits & stands with as is company of her friends???Which society she sits & stands & mingles???As there is massive marriage frauds in PK,so they prefer to marry in family,atleast you have better idea of the men & women as has been the cases before…Even my mother prefer a known girl for me,if she does who we have seen growing up,know her parents/family/background.

    Don’t think that every Pakistani men is bad or devil,just like any where there are good & bad people!

  • Gail

    September 7, 2015
    Ana,

    Yes exactly.I hate liars and had he been honest upfront it would have saved me alot of grief.As u know in our culture we don’t have this idea to check people out and do a huge background check on the man and his family.Normally people marry someone they went to school with.If people do background checks on others here in USA I never have heard of it so it did not come in my mind that time.I think now that is why I don’t want to remarry as i find it impossible to tell a good egg from a bad egg plus all that romantic crap Western Gem is talking sounds nice but it is not worth for anything.It don’t feed my kids or pay for their college education or make them properties.I need those things in my life not words that come a dime a dozen.

  • Gail

    September 7, 2015
    Umair,

    I don’t have a problem with the people it is the culture.I know that Pakistani people love deeply I am not denying that at all but the love they have is not worth for in my opinion because they have to jump through so many more hoops and their love is contingent on so many variables.For example say a boy and girl do a real love marriage but then the girl does not get along with her MIL but they live joint family and the girl wants to move and get their own home.Obviously the inlaws are going to B@tch and say that girl is B@tch and start verbally attacking her and beating her if she stands up to much.Where is her husbands love and protection that time see my point? That suicide love is just misguided feelings that don’t really work in Pakistani society since the younger generation is so stuck under the older generation in my opinion.
    Pakistani children are not raised to be free as u well know they r raised to obey parents and live under their parents.
    I believe u can respect your parents without having them rule your life.Here in USA in the white culture parents raise their children to 18 then they set them free to make their own life choices.If the child needs to talk the parents are there to give their opinion but it is only their opinion the adult child is always free to choose his own way be it right or wrong.This is totally opposite from Pakistan where personal freedom of choice is just not an option.
    I am sure I do come across bitter because I have lived Pakistani lifestyle for so many years and I have fought my husband on these topics.
    I have told him straight I don’t live under anyone and my kids r free etc… instead of saying ok he says my kids and r atheist like he has the keys to heaven.

  • anabellah

    September 6, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    It’s good to hear you are seeing more clearly now. Alhumdulliah. It seems to me that Allah is protecting you. You would have made the mistake of a lifetime if you had gone to Pakiland to marry that boy. All he’s thinking about is getting his toys. You’ve got two kids already. You don’t need a grown one.

    You see now that he’s not an appreciative individual and he’s rude. Umair said some of them beat their women. I don’t think you’re looking for a beating.Head Smack You sound to be a sane young lady.

    It’s beautiful that you give in charity regularly and have taught your children to do so, as well. Insha Allah, continue to do what you’re doing close at home here, near you. Ummof4 gave us some excellent examples of ways to give. Alhumdulliah.

    You’ve got a good heart. Ask Allah to give you the best mate for you – one who is righteous and pious who will know to treat you with kindness and equity, so you could live together in peace and tranquility.

    You should feel so good about yourself. You’re doing really good. Keep up the good work

  • anabellah

    September 6, 2015

    @Umair,

    I’m just shaking my head. The more I hear of some Pakistani men, the worse it sounds. Now, I’m hearing it’s not uncommon for the men to commit suicide when rejected or feeling betrayed by women. Suicide is a huge sin. Is there ANY Islam in Pakiland?

    I’d imagine Gail is “bitter” about Pakistani men, especially as she is married to one. I think she’s a lot more than “bitter”. Her husband is now talking divorce at a time when she needs his support more when she is tackling medical issues. He’s got his citizenship and his dad who lives with them here in the U.S. is soon to have his. Their children are nearing the age of marriage and he’s thinking of marrying them off to their cousins. If I understand correctly, his sister was married to his ex-wife’s brother. His breakup with the ex-wife affected his sister’s marriage, resulting in her divorce. Gail, correct me, please, if I got it twisted. I’m wondering if Gail and the husband divorce, will he go back and get the ex-wife (cousin) to help bring his sister and her husband (ex-co-wife’s brother) back together. It’s all about family for Pakistani people.

    I know how Gail must feel. I’m sure she thinks she’s spent a lot of useless years with the man – for what? So, you ask, if she’s “bitter”. I think it goes deeper than it. I think it’s more like Swearing Rage

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 6, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum dear all and thanks for write..
    I had decided to not senf any cent plus to him no more. I feel weird when i do and he not even tell me a simple: thank. I know if i give from heart and nothing expecting in return but is the truth : he feels me like I SHOULD do each each time hes in need. Is so sad very very sad i had enrolled in a relation where i just seeking atention hes just seeking money. But i really felt inlove and thats why that is so hard to me. Btw i do Zakat everyday and teach my kids to do that you cant imagine how my children enjoy help others here despite we are not rich Alhamdulillah food never left in our table..
    My fiance knows it but he does not care what i do hes not interesting in Islam much at least not with me. Hes struggling any coast for bring me to pakistan asking loans to relatives doing pressure on me for going there but i lost the faith on that..
  • ummof4

    September 6, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Zahra, please take the advice of those of us who want the best for you and your children. Give your sadaqah to those who are close to you– the poor, the homeless, those who are asking for assistance. You can investigate them and their needs and there will be no Western Union fee to send them money. When my organization gives out money, we make out a check or money order to whom the money is owed-landlord, gas&electric company, car payments, etc. If the person says they need food, we give them a gift card to their local supermarket, if they need gas money, we buy them a gas card, if they need a bus pass, we buy them a bus pass. We do not give out cash, because unfortunately some people are not honest.

    I don’t expect individuals to have applications and checks and balances like an organization, but do check people out. If you don’t want to do that then give your sadaqah to a local social service organization that does check people out before giving them assistance.

    Giving sadaqah (charity) is an important part of Islaam, so we should all give as much as we can afford to give.

  • Umair

    September 6, 2015
    @ Gail,you seem very bitter about Pakistani men,it depends which area of Pakistan he is from,or which city that is a huge factor or humangous factor in deciding.Pakistani men do suicide from top of the buildings if they don’t get the girl,they are real genuine likes the girl.Personally me & few of the guys i know DON’T even take the money for the coffee when we get out with the girl.It’s hugely dependent on men’s family background.Karachi and other cities are the worst cities,with the reason in cousin marriages,as there are huge frauds outside of marriage with the person pretends to show something else,but infact is something else within Pakistan.Atleast in family closed knit collective system you are familiar with your cousin,her past affairs,whom she goes out,whom she contact,whom she meet,whom she interacts with female friends(What type are they) who come to our house as company,are the “S’ or pious good girls whose company will astray her or him in case of men.So these men who gets rejected in PAKISTAN are accepted by Foriegn women without going to Pakistan.This is their equal mistakes,within Pakistan a guys & girls character checks very stringent whom s/he sit & stands or what company from neighbours(More than 1),For a men,character test from his circle where he sits/stands or works,is he a skank(Drugs/Alcohol),Womenising,treat his mother or sister will give a good indicator how he will treat his future wife.PAKISTANI looks poor but they are very cunning & smart,as Western countries people are very straight forward.Where they get this cunningness to survive in the society or country.

    Yes,Marie is right set a charity or social welfare account,because they will laughing off behind you.That’s why if people are dying on roads or slums no one helps.If he is from poor family,you(ZAHRA) is her green card(US PASSPORT),if you are that into love,just ask him i am revoking my US Nationality(Citizenship),then see the fun???People in Pakistan live for their families,he will come first easy way instead of going through Student/Working Visa whatever is the class of labour visa in US now,PR he will go straight to citizenship.Then lay the base for his family to come & do the REAL MARRIAGE in Pakistan with Pakistani girl.These cases i have heard with my ears so many times,but that was with Christian(Non Muslims) women,they can even convert to Christianity to get the asylum,refuge or citizenship direct(Hala loya),look at in Europe where Refugees converting to Christianity just to get asylum/citizenship,when their Muslim brothers in GULF(ARAB) didn’t help at all but big slogans of “Ummah” are being heard…

    @Zahra,it’s common sense,a 23 yrs old a married with a buggage(Children) is too much for him to handle,even if he wants to…A God Fearing old men will except someone’s else children,same goes for women.NO ONE DOES,NO ONE WILL..Infront of the spouse(Husband or Wife),they will be very nice but beat behind their back in PK…Even for me in my 30’s women with buggage/luggage is too much,as i don’t have children if i get ready made children,will be hard for me no matter how much i try to compromise or get the marriage work,even mother is torn btw her children & other husband whom she is going to be with,if they are too intimate in lounge or dining room,what if the children comes up?This will never happen with a “VIRGIN” girl or 1st marriage???Then his family is an integral part,look at the big picture with future.

    @ Gail,is right that either go to Pakistan with some male companion and marry him,tell us what happened after that or just forget it how hard it is as women can become emotionally attached with their praises or good words.Don’t stay on the fence or two minds.Mind you are there are those Pakistani men who have done suicide after the betrayal from girl,girl doesn’t care in Pakistan(Look at newspapers in Pakistan) with the title”Failure in love make him jump from the building”..So PAKISTANI OR FORIENG WOMEN DO BETRAY PAKISTANI MEN…There are some really good Pakistani men,not all are as opportunisitc!Thank you!

  • Gail

    September 6, 2015
    Zahra,

    It is time to let it go.All these men talk the same exact way I promise u.You would swear they have a PHD in kissing A$$ and making a women feel like she is the only women for him.
    Listen girl I am going to tell u frankly stop being on the fence about this either go to Pakistan and marry him and find out the hard way what I and everyone is telling u was the truth or cut him off and move on.U can’t stay on the fence just make your mind and do that thing.

  • anabellah

    September 5, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar. Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I agree It is time for you to move on. The best way is to cut all ties with him. Insha Allah, don’t give him any more money. Give it to sudaqah (charity) to those close to you where you live who you can investigate. Make him history.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 5, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum and peace be upon you. I m so confused a lot why a man could be a great actor when hes wanting something desesperatly. My paki x fiance waa the sweetest man i evee met in my all life . No one treated me and love me that way ever. I trusted him blinded cos he sounds real and in love with me. Rather his youngest than me im much innocent with ppl and life than him. You aaskede if we used to talk about Islam. Is sad but he never use to guide me or share some about the precious thing in life Allah gaves to everyone. Islam. I dont know if hes a good muslim yet but i cannot judge just Allah cos hes watching everything but my x uses lots of rudes and when i m not online of busy he uses abuse on me and then he forgets and come to be kind with me. He has very bad attitude towars people who make him anger but not with me at all. He tried to be patient but indeed hes the man who controls my life . How i wear where i go hes always caring me and if by chance i m not online for few hours he calls my mom my cousins and uncle for asking where is his wife. He was very lovable really i dont know if hes lying or not but i will never forget those days together in distance it was like s dream i thought was true… I had forgive him Hes i my prayings i wanted to marry him i really dreamt with that one day but now is time for move on..Allah Hafiz
  • Gail

    September 5, 2015
    Mari2,

    Yes of course!My husband deals both his parents because I refuse to do it but still I do so much like cook and clean the home etc…Well come next season he has a rude wake up call coming because he is going to have deal that RED HOT MESS all by himself.I kid u not I am done with it and I am telling u the truth I have no interest to take him back ever since he is a package deal.
    I hope they all choke on their American Pie dream as for me I am focusing on me and my kids and getting healthy with some traveling involved.

  • Gail

    September 5, 2015
    Didi,

    U are so correct they are nothing but money whores and that is the truth in it.
    I died laughing when u said they except anything by heart and to send via western union.LOL It is so true!! It’s crocodile tears they shed and believe u me their friends list is full of woman.I am very certain Zahra is not the only woman he is trying to swindle money out of.This is game they play and nothing more as most of us women who have mixed up with these Paki guys know all to well.

  • didi

    September 4, 2015
    Dear Zahra,
    Paki man seems melancholy, because they keep sending sad or sweet picture. But we never know how rude they are, until we meet face to face. Paki boy who keep calling me, never ask for money . But he is crying when his laptop and mobile are broken. That ridiculous for me. Last time he ask me about brthday present from me . he directly says that he accept everything sent by heart and tell me to send with western union.. so he expecting for money.All i want to say is please dont be fooled or misguided.
    They tend to manipulatif .
    If still you want to help, you can do like Marie said.

  • Marie

    September 3, 2015
    Zahra Gujar, wa alaykum asalaam.

    Is there a way you could be charitable towards them without them knowing it was you. Like do you have an address you could send the money to or bank details where you could make an over the counter deposit. That way they couldn’t expect or ask you for more if they never knew it was you.

    You sound like such a sweetheart and I hope Allah sends a wonderful Muslim husband your way.

  • anabellah

    September 3, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You’d be a cold heart person, if you didn’t feel anything for your ex-fiance, their family and their condition. It’s kind of you to want to continue to help them out financially. Whether you should do it or not is something you will need to figure out. We are supposed to be charitable. There is no doubt that he and his family are probably in need just based on the country they live in. What does their faith level seem to be to you? Do you and he discuss Islam? Do you talk about Allah swt?

    I won’t tell you not to help him or his family out financially. I believe in charity, as it is a HUGE part of our religion (Islam). Allah rewards us manifold for being charitable. Anything we spend with Allah in mind is repaid to us. Allah, in the Holy Quran, says don’t be niggardly (stingy), nor encourage others to be that way. Therefore, I certainly will not tell you to not help them. If you have some extra money (and it doesn’t have to be a lot – anything. Every little bit helps) to spare, I see no wrong in you continuing to help them. Ask Allah what you should do, and follow the inspiration that you get from Him. It’s the best that I can tell you.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 3, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum dear all !
    @anabellah ! I really appreciatte your words and your kindly way for care about all us I proud to have this blog where i found relieved and thankful to everyone who showed me the truth about thst men. I really cannot believe was true.
    Today my x fiance paki boy sent me pics of him crying he said hes very ill and I felt broken to see him in that way. I felt so sad cos he said he wants to die and he and his family are suffering poverty days. I said to him im so sorry for that and pray my Allah hes merciful he knows everything but i cant help cos im poor noeafays indeed. I was about to offer him some money for his family but i stopped thinking is a big mistake about me i want to help everyone cos my Allah rewards my charity. I feel so confused if this family are really in need and how can i help them how can i manage it ? I feel in charge of them asking myself if everything is real or still the scamming.
    We came in that life without nothing then we will leave that world same empty hands. I dont know what to do. Still helping him or cold heart leave all. How can i realize hes telling the truth .. hes not demanding money anyways. But i just want to help….asalam o Aleikum
  • anabellah

    September 2, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam :-)

    Although you are very sad now and hurting, you must make yourself see that you are doing the best thing for you and your children by not being with that man any longer. You have your parents and your friends who love you and are there with you. Some people don’t have it.

    You have to think logically when making intentions that affects your children. Gail and Umair are so right; the 23 year old man could not be a good step-parent to your children. He’s just a little past being a child himself. Add coming to a new country to be with you, along with your children it could be overwhelming for him. He’d have to adjust to a new environment, to marriage, to you, and your children in tow. An instant ready made family is a lot to put on a 23 year old. There are many step-dads that abuse children that are not theirs.

    Zahra Gujar, thank Allah much that He allowed you to pay attention to what appears to be His signs. I truly believe He is protecting you by letting you see the truth in the matter before it was too late and you did yourself a huge injustice. I think you are a good person and I’m sure you are a very good mother to your children.

    Allah could give you a man that is worthy of having you – a man who would treat you well and help you take good care of your children. Be patient, persevere and pray. Allah is with the patient. You’re going to be okay. Stay strong. Try not to think of him. Don’t entertain thoughts of him in your head, as they are the whispers of Satan.

  • anabellah

    September 1, 2015

    @RiRa, As Salaamu Alaikum

    You sound so much better. I’m so happy you decided not to go to Pakistan. I’m thankful that Jasmina shared her story with us. We all feel desperate some time or another and take drastic measures or try to. We live and learn from our mistakes. Sometime we can learn from others when we listen.

    Yes, Insha Allah, stay away from Pakistani men the Indian ones too. It’s best, as you said, that you don’t get involved in another relationship right away. Sometimes jumping into another relationship is all about transferring the feeling that you had for the other person onto the new. You need time to heal. Use the time to work on you and your relationship with Allah swt.

    I know you are very sad, hurt and in pain. Of course you are. You will get better. This too shall pass. It’s best you move on because you can have so much more and much better. I know you are angry with him and want revenge. Let Allah deal with Him. Remember Allah sees and Knows all things. Your husband has a lot to answer for. You are a good woman. It’s your time to turn to Allah and get yourself right with Him. Allah could send you a husband way better than the one you’ve got now. You must believe it. If you don’t believe Allah will do it and give it to you, why should He? We have to BELIEVE. It’s what believers do. I pray that you don’t go back to that man. Take a page out of Jasmina’s story…

  • Gail

    September 1, 2015
    Zahra Gujar,

    Don’t feel sad because u r going to get better than what u r thinking.
    Had u married this man u would have missed out on the man Allah created for u.
    Soo no worries I pray that u will not be single long.I am curious are there any good men in your country where u can meet them?
    I think u really need to verbally put it out there that u r looking for marriage to a good man.I would try to pick a man from your country because they r easier to investigate and make sure it is not a fraud.Just leave the Pakistani guy alone.I am very thankful u did not fly to Pakistan.Thanks G.D for that! U seem to be a great mother who cares for your children and put them first as a good mother does.G.D Bless u and stay strong!!

  • Gail

    September 1, 2015
    Jasmina,

    I read your story and your story is the same like mine in many ways.I will give u some advice U need to get up in your husbands face straight up and tell him if he touches the baby again u will kick his ass off.U have to show no fear and I mean it girl.If u u show fear or act like u will back down and cower they will run over u.
    Tell him straight u will call the police.If u allow him to hit the baby now it will only get worse as the child gets older.My husband was very cruel to his son when he was a baby(my 13 yr old) I can not tell u how many times I had to come between my husband and my son.He was also really cruel at times with my 20 year old when he was 9 and 10 twisting his arm on a few occasions.I flat got up in my husbands face and slapped him right in the face and punched him and told him if he ever touched the children again I would call the police myself.
    Well long story short in Pakistan I have witnessed them punching and beating the hell out of brothers and each other and cousins.Even he told me his dad tied him and brother up to a tree when they were kids for leaving school and beat the hell out of them.Now I am not against spanking a child but beating the hell out of them I am against that and I have made it clear to my husband and inlaws they r not to touch my children.
    Jasmina I worry your husband is going to also going to say he wants a cousin marriage for your children.Are u willing to marry them to a cousin>

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 1, 2015
    Please excuse my typos but im writing fast in mobile in my break time Allah Hafiz
  • Zahra Gujar

    September 1, 2015
    Asalam o aleikum how are you everyone ? Allah bless you.
    I cutted all contact to my ex bf since 1 week ago. It really hurts how we both ignore each other so bad and noone write to each other again rather i am busy in my job and with my kids and family i dont know how hes going he told me thousand times i was his life and he cannot leave without me. One day he told me he could murder for me..was we cut all contact becos i wrote him a letter with al my fears and doubts he left on me about that ridiculous relation when i am who love more and i feeling like going down. I thought it was real love but when i made him know i know everything he wanted from me he dissapeared suddenly without explanation avoiding my fears and pains about our marriage.
    I have pakistani Viss in my hands my flight would be on september 15th but now is all over Alhamdulillah !! I came to this blog and unmask that sad reality. I talked with m y Wali he also said to me you are wrong dont run into your desires your feak husband is not real !! He uses a lot of bad words in Pashtum language to others and rudes ! You will suffer a hell with him.. he said to me : hes a Shia but very far from Allah and hrs a evil follower. I cried a lot watching my itinerary my Visas my luggage almost ready for travel to the place of my feak prince . Castles on the air. I cant stop crying dissapointed all the money time and love i spent with him no matter to me. Im crying happy cos my Allah showed me the right path and i didnt leave my wonderful country and people following a scamming. I have no words for thanks to Anabellah Gail Ummr and all people who keep ofg the scarf from my eyes and im stiml here watching tv talking with my friends playing with my kids and my parents next to me despite i am totally broken and alone but i learned a big lesson. May Allah heal me and help me throwing all memories Cos i feel so underpressure and sad. I just need my Allah with me. Fee Imaan Allah :(
  • RiRa

    September 1, 2015
    @Gail,
    Yaa Sure, I will consider for your advises.. And it’s a very big lesson for me to know people from that country eventhough not all people like that.. But i will be more careful and ofcourse i dont want to make new relationship with other man from that place or any other place right now..
    @Jasmina,
    I can imagine your feeling at that time, your experience make me thinking and inspire me to be stronger.. That’s true what @Anabellah sayying, it’s really helpful and mean alot for me as consideration and not doing silly things and doing something with emotional only. What you’re sayying are correct who want to be in these kind of marriage life with that kind of person.. I never expected this would be happened in my life. But Allah gv me this kind of life and I want to fight for this. The only reason why I still want to be with my husband is not only because of love him much, But also I dont accept being treated like what he and family did. Im so much upset. If I know this before married i will not accept when he propose me, or if he told me before leaving will not let him go back before everything is safe for us. I hope Allah will always help me and hug me whenever I’m feeling sad.. Im not ready and dont want to find other man or start new relationship with someone else. im really scare to start.. How if i meet someone that is worst than him, it doesnt mean I dont believe in Allah im just scared. And its not easy also for me to make a new relationship n fall in love with somebody..

    And also may be all of you have more years experiences than me.. That’s why it makes me wow, speechless.. How strong you are. Im thinking Can I through all of these.. Im just 1 year married with him, still dont have enough experience and still so much in love.. That’s why sometimes im still thinking some silly things. But from all you said i will learn and take it as my consideration. Thank you All,, may Allah alwyas protect & guide all of us :)

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @jasmina, As Salaamu Alaikum :-)

    It was very nice and thoughtful of you to share with RiRa your story. I’m sure it was not only helpful to her, but many. It means a lot.

    I know you are at a very uncomfortable, uneasy place now in your life. It’s not good when a person fears the one who he or she loves, the one person who she or is should feel safe and secure with. It could be about that time for you to seriously think about transitioning, moving away from the marriage. You have to be strong and turn all your attention to Allah, so He will help you, and make the transition easy for you, if it is good for you and your son.

    Insha Allah, begin to make an exit plan. Think about where you could go and who could possibly help you. Perhaps you’ll be able to save some money, if you have access to any. If any thing, get your mind prepared for taking your child and leaving the marriage. You have to be methodical. Whatever you do, don’t let him know that you are thinking about leaving him. Don’t let on at all that it something you might do. You want to keep you and your son safe. Many times men become more violent once they know the woman is thinking about leaving them. If you have free legal aid where you live, try to go see an attorney who could let you know how you could secure custody of your son, so your husband doesn’t take him from you. You don’t want him to take your son and leave the country or maybe it’s you who needs to leave the country with your son. I don’t know what country you live in. You know what you need to do.

    The most important thing is that you make sure you’re doing your part in worshiping Allah. Make sure you remember Him all the time, as much as you can. Make sure you’re doing all your five daily prayers with sincerity. Make sure you are aware of each and every word you say in the salat, and what it means.

    I have to run now. I wrote this quickly, but I had been meaning to get here to write to you. Stay strong. You will be okay {{{hugs}}} We’re here for you whenever you want to talk about anything at all. It doesn’t have to be your situation.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @Gail,

    I’m not against “Arrange Marriages” either. I think they have a time and place. I think as long as the people who are going to marry really want it and agree to it willingly without force or coersion, it’s okay. Take “Spirited”, for instance, she had an arranged marriage. It was acceptable to her. She said if she divorces, she wouldn’t mind another one. I worked with an Indian guy. He was very pleasant, cute, short guy in his early twenties. He went back to India to marry in an arranged marriage. He took leave from work for a month. He was very happy about his marriage being arranged. I could see the joy and happiness on his face. He lit up when he talked about it. Those type of marriage are cool when done without force or restricting who one could marry based on race and nationality

    I am against how they do it in Pakistan, with all these cousin marriages to keep the money in the family and not allowing them to marry other than their own nationality. I think it goes against Islam. Allah says in the Quran that we are one brotherhood. He says that he created us of all colors and languages so that we will love one another not despised one another. Any Muslim should be able to marry any Muslim on the Globe because we are all one brotherhood. No Muslim should be seen as different except for the most righteous one is the better one. It’s the significant difference.

    We’ve heard here of Pakistani men who marry other than Pakistanis, but they keep those wives as secret or those wives are considered inferior to their Pakistani wives. It’s wrong. No one should be forced to marry without their consent either. These Pakistan men marry who their parents say marry. I don’t know if there are many who don’t want it. If they go along with it, then they should be man enough to accept the responsibility of it. They need to remain married to that one woman and not mess around with others who they know good and darn well their family and culture doesn’t accept. If they know their culture and family don’t believe in and accept polygamy, they should stay monogamous. No, but they instead (the greedy buggers) marry whom their parents say marry, sneak off and marry someone not of their nationality and many times not of their religion and help wreck and ruin the persons’ lives. It is what so totally jacked up about it. Look what RiRa is going through. To marry someone for their own personal gain, and then dump the person after he gets what he want is so sickening to me.

    Gail, I think you’re doing the right thing by not forcing your children to marry their cousins. Break that cycle. Nip it in the bud. I could see it getting really ugly between your husband and you about it, but you just have to fight it out. Has his parents said anything to you about it? I’d suspect they’re all for it.

    Below, I put the link to a video that I really like by Khalid Latif. I had it on the original version of the blog. It may be on this blog some place, as well. I can’t recall.

  • jasmina

    August 31, 2015
    sallam RiRa that sounds so awful what you are going through. I went through something similar years ago when I found myself in a situation where my rights were taken from me as a wife. I felt so powerless and the feeling of shame, degradation and worthlessness were enough to drive me to be clinically depressed for 2 years. It is a terrible thing for a woman to experience particularly because as young Muslim women we are chaste and in many ways innocent and when something as hurtful as this happens we feel betrayed and as you say oppressed. I know that you have a strong feeling to demand your rights and for him to man up and be responsible for his mistakes and do as he should as a husband. I did as well.

    In hindsight I really wish I ran as fast as I could as soon as possible instead of sitting there trying to get my rights. I tell you I did not get my rights and my husband abandoned me for years and divorced me, I think mainly because I did stupid stuff like what you are trying to do by going there uninvited. I know that when that feeling of desperation comes we can really do silly things without thinking. Anyhow I always loved my husband and I am the lucky one in that he came back for me and we are married now…. I will tell you it’s not great. Love isn’t enough to keep a marriage strong, there is so much more to it and for starters you want a man that you can trust and that will be proud to tell the world you are his wife and will fight with nail and teeth for you because he loves you. THat’s not your husband, that was not my husband either. He was a coward and did as his family wanted. He is good with his time now but too little too late.

    OK so let’s assume that you decided to stay and fight for your rights… he will try to persuade his other wife and who knows how long that will take, he will visit you when he can maybe if you are lucky, he will tell you beautiful words of love and you will hold a long distance relationship. In the mean while you have to live like a single woman, your depression will probably increase, you will feel lonely… for 6 months or maybe years. Allahualem

    So then assume that he finally after many years does come around and decides it’s time to let you be his wife because his family allow him to live with you. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE WITH SOMEONE who lied to you, dogged you, is a coward and just broke everything that should keep a marriage strong? Trust me he does this now, he will most likely always do something similar to varying degrees, perhaps not as bad but nevertheless will abuse the relationship just as he is doing now. Do you want children to this man, do you want him influencing your kids? Believe me, you will always have problems allahualem, for starters you may forgive him but you will probably not forget and if you are anything like me then his betrayal will hurt you for a long time and it will affect your marriage.

    I’m just saying that even if he does come around, do you really want someone of that type of character as a husband. You do not have your rights at present, I would see it as a blessing as it’s solid grounds to demand a divorce and just move on.

    However if you really want to fight for this and live an average life with a husband whom you will probably always have problems with and be unhappy for a very long time then fight for it but do it right. By doing it right I mean, do it according to your husband’s terms without upsetting him. Let him see that you are a strong woman who has you on his side. Don’t mess with her or his family. You can tell them your story, believe me they will twist everything you say to him to turn him against you. Been there done that. Or perhaps give an ultimatum and see how much he is willing to do for you. Whatever you do, if you are going to fight for it, make sure that you come out winning in the next could of months. Don’t wait years in the hopes he will give you his rights, you will regret it.

    My husband and I loved each other so much. We met since we were kids and fell in love and have always been the best of friends. Trust me our bond was unbreakable and we were the example… what a joke… all it took was for his parents to find a girl from his culture and he dropped me quicker than you could blink even though we were married, and are married now… love just isn’t enough.

    Anyhow we are happy now sometimes, but the past haunts me everyday and I can’t be happy. He met our son when he was a toddler so hardly knows him and doesn’t do much to build a bond. He woke up the other night wanting to go potty and my husband flicked him 5 times on the face and slapped him a few times on the face (not hard but enough to hear it) all because our son would not stop staring at him. well he stares at him mainly in fear. i tried talking to my husband about it and asked him why he is so mean to him and he said that it’s because he acts like a girl because i don’t know how to raise boys and so he needs to toughen him up. I got upset and he told me to get out of his face before he cracks my skull open. I feel very intimidated now and I just want to leave, I really don’t know why I even went back to him, I don’t know what I was expecting from someone who dogged me once before. I wish I had of moved on to someone with better character. I guess I wanted to reunite our little family and for my son to have his father. But our marriage sucks to say the least. I hate being here now.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015
    RiRa,

    Just consider what I am saying to u and don’t go to Pakistan and never go alone.
    Also please do not mix up with Pakistani men in the future and take this as a hard lesson learned.
    Men will act like they love u and romance u etc.. and u will swear it is the real deal but what I have learned over the years is never let emotions be swayed by logic.We have a saying here in USA if it “If it looks like a duck and it Quacks like a duck IT”S A DUCK. “If it looks like a Pakistani man and it smells like a Pakistani man IT”S A PAKISTANI MAN” Don’t go near it.
    Go on youtube and educate yourself on Pakistani culture.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015
    Ana,

    It really is like Lot and his people live there.I knew this was all going on there as my husband explained things to me years ago.I am so Thankful I kept my children close to me all these years and protected their innocence.
    Don’t get me wrong my children know there are sick people out there in this world like murders,abusers,gays etc… They r very well educated but until they are grown I am happy to stay by their sides keeping them protected.I have no sincere interest to ever go back to Pakistan in the future or at least until all my children are married here in USA.I see it like this I didn’t suffer my life to pull them out of Pakistan and raise them just for them to marry back in that environment.I raised them to be free and make their own life choices.I know that this may very well cause my own divorce in the next few yrs because I and the children will stand against my husband and I am prepared for this but I feel very strongly that G.D will protect my children.I do want to say I am not against Arranged marriages I even told my husband to find decent Pakistani families that have mixed children here in USA the same as us.Like a white mom Pakistani dad and I would be willing to listen but he only wants his way so this will be a breaking point between us.He has never been for the family unit only his agendas and truly it is going to backfire on him with the kids in the future although he seems to think it won’t.

  • RiRa

    August 31, 2015
    @Anabellah & Gail,

    Thank you for all of your sugestions, advices and understanding.. I will do my best as I can, but I promise to think many many times befor take any actions and of course pray to Allah for everything.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    Wow, I mean, it’s like Lot (Lut’s) people are all up in Pakistan. Afghanistan has got the same problem with men doing boys. I think it’s disgusting. Only a sick person would want to go up in that area of the body for pleasure. The thought of it makes me want to barf.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    Gail ,

    I’m with you 100%. It appears she is fighting a loosing battle. I think she is sh!t out of luck. She can’t even get her foot in the door over there. It’s as though he simply gave her the boot, kicked her to the curb, threw her under the bus and just left her out in the cold. In your situation, you had leverage. You had the upperhand. She has nada, nothing, not a leg to stand on. It always pay to keep the upperhand.

    I think she and he only worked in China. She does not live there. I get the feeling she is from a country that is similar. I think she’s being cautious in not disclosing the country . When you said Pakistanis do not want to live in China, something about it made me laugh. I wouldn’t want to live in China for all the tea in China.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015
    Ana,

    I saw that documentary the other night and it really hit home to me.This is not something that goes on just at the bus stops at the documentary portrayed.It goes on all throughout Pakistani society.It starts out as young boys going through puberty.All the Pakistani boys can do is just watch girls going to and from school they r never allowed to talk to the girls they can only stare and hope the girl will smile back at them.They live in a fantasy world which we here in the west can not truly grasp because girls and boys r free here to have little boyfriends and girlfriends.To this day though I am very confused as to how these Muslim countries produce so many gay and bisexual men because here in the west our grandparents generation was not sexually active and it was frowned upon before marriage.They only thing I can think of that might make a difference is that they were allowed to socialize with the opposite sex.I don’t know the whole thing disgust me to be frank.
    Also these Pakistani males are very much into porn as well.I think it pretty much leads the world in watching porn.I don’t know what the answers are to fix these problems but I do know that this gay and bisexual behavior is running rampant there.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015
    Ana,

    As far as RiRa goes I personally think she should go to a divorce lawyer and file but the problem is RiRa don’t want to divorce him so in her case it seems she wants to fight to try to keep her marriage and that is ok as well.I understand where she is coming from because I myself am a fighter.I fought with my husband and his family and secured my place as his wife and I even managed to get him to get rid of his first wife. Now in saying all this was it worth for?No it was not and I was lucky because I have a biological son with my husband and I adopted his son from his first marriage and I adopted his daughter.My husband had alot to loose if I filed divorce and left him to be frank.
    He only kept me because of the kids not out of some misguided love because these people do nothing for love but instead for family relations.
    Do I think RiRa has a chance to save her marriage? Since her cowife has called her and called her names it is obvious her cowife is never going to accept her.When I told Rira to talk with her cowife I thought maybe she could offer her cowife something in essence strike a deal with her but the problem is that RiRa lives in China and Pakistani people don’t have desire to live in China.Now if RiRa lived in Europe then u can say she has more bargaining power with the cowife and inlaws.China is right next door to Pakistan so nothing grand in that plus wages in china are not like Europe so she really has no bargaining power as I see it.
    I did not know until the last post that RiRa has spoken to her cowife so it looks like she is fighting a loosing battle with the cowife.All that is left is to appeal to her inlaws but she has already said they want him to divorce her so it is not looking good.
    I am never against anyone trying to fight for their marriage but yeah for sure in this case it looks like she is fighting a loosing battle.Unless her husband stands up for her which I doubt the chicken $h!t will she will need to file divorce and move on with her life and remember in the future that all that glitters is not gold.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @Gail,

    Last night, I watched the full documentary, “Pakistan, the Hidden Shame”. How sad the many children (boys) sexually abused and subjected to HIV (AIDS). The men say they can’t take their own wives out because people would stare. Therefore, they swing out with the boys, date them and have sex with them or use them as prostitutes. All the while they stone, beat, kill, and throw acid in the faces of women. As Sabrina stated, a double standard exists. They make a woman seem worthless and wrong, when they, themselves the abuser,s are the worthless and wrong ones.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @RiRa,

    You need to just leave him alone. He has let you know he is trying to deal with his family and his other wife. He’s not worth your time and trouble.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @RiRa, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I know you are hurting and are in a lot of pain. I feel very badly for you. I know you love your husband. You must understand that you should not go there. Your husband has let you know that if you go there, he will have problems. You now know that he has another wife and she is not at all happy about the situation. Gail has let you know that those people do not accept polygamy. If you go there, you will only be putting your life in danger.

    He is wrong to speak of his other wife the way he does. If he feels as he does about her, then he needs to leave her. Guess what? He probably won’t. He does as his mother and family tell him to do. It’s what angers me. They do as their mothers and family say, can’t stand up to themselves and be a man, but they then go out there, mess around with other women and F)ck their lives up out of greed ad selfishness. If they’re going to be momma’s boy, they need to keep being momma’s boy and leave women that their mothers haven’t chosen for them alone. The ones we speak of are the most F ed up people that I know. Pathetic, worthless, piece of an excuse for a man.

    Take your marriage certificate to a Lawyer/attorney and ask him or her what you can do. I think it’s worthless to do because you love this man after all you’ve found out about him and you don’t want to fight for any rights. You want to fight for someone (your husband) who is not willing to fight for you.

  • RiRa

    August 31, 2015
    Salam @Anabellah & Gail,

    Thank you so much for your advise n comments.. It’s really help me to imagine what will I face in the future and I will be more carefully and thinking many times before take an action. After at night he talk with me show that woman at that time i was in period, n after knw all of those things suddenly i had so much bleeding and it’s not stop till more than 1 month. Then After 2weeks My husband asked me to give him my number, bcuz at that time my number was no money, and ct receive call or sms. Then i gv him my number after I recharge thebalance. The next day someone call me. And it’s that woman. And ask me why i still call his husband. She is a lier i never call my husband, my number ct do abroad call. I said im still his wife. And she said, no.. U r not. He’s only for me. She told me that. I explain her my condition n the reason why i want him to marry me. But she said, shut up stupid, u r bitch,, many times.. Then when i inform my husband, my husband said he dt know how she got my number.after he asked to that woman, he told me that woman said she never call and she dt care abt me. They were fighting again. And he said im tired fighting with her. And he’s not happy to know she call me bitch, bcuz he never call people in the bad words. And told me that she is the stupid one n the bitch one, not u. And he applologies to me. I said to him, ur mistake is u lie to me, and i want u to responsible. N after they know u did a mistake, if they r a gud family, why the want u to do zalim thing to me this is not my fault. And he’s agree. But he said his condition was not safe, i think untill now. He also said u cant imagine how she talk..That woman also alwys talk his negativity to his family, and then he will b in trouble bcuz of that..and it happened since b4 we r married. Also abt our case They also talk infront of him his negativity.. He said also his mother feel pity on me bcuz of him but dont know why seems they dt support him to do his responsible in our case. I dt knwwhat kind of people in this family..

    I just want my right as a wife like wht he promises.. I know many things What you both said are correct, but i dont accept if this kind of people doing zalim things to me. Is that possible if i report his family behaviour to police or to law office? If after broke my life n say sorry then i just let them destroy my future, in this condition, they will not feel guilty with their mistake.. I really wana fight for my right..
    FYI, If i want to visit him, i need to fly for 8 hours at least. No direct flight. i never know if can be reached by bus.. If it’s possible, may be i can visit him many times..

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Gail,

    Do you really think that RiRa has a chance of making the marriage work, if she speaks with his other wife and his mother? I think she has lost the fight already. She’s not even blonde haired and blue eyed. It sounds the further away from that look the less chance they have. It just sounds to me that her husband is extremely cold heart. He came out his face straight and said his family wants him to divorce her and he want a divorce. He showed her a woman (on skype) and told her it was his wife. Even if it wasn’t, as RiRa thinks, he felt strongly enough to pretend that some woman was. He said don’t come there, he’d get there when he can. If China is a hop, skip and a jump away, why can’t he get there NOW? It’s sounds like a song I’m familiar with – get here when you can or something.

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015
    Anonymous,

    Knowone can be for certain and say he will not do it.U just have to accept that there is going to be this other side of your husband that u may never truly know.
    He may not ever mistreat u and he may stay devoted to only u and his daughter all his life then again he may not.
    I will tell u this though in your case I would go to Pakistan and meet the family.They have not wronged you that u know of.If u r positive u r his only wife and he does not have another wife then I would say u could try to embrace his family.
    Now in saying that I would ask your husband straight has his parents ever brought up him marrying a Pakistani woman.If he says yes and it was after u two were married then don’t trust them.They r up to no good.U need to ask him on the sly.These men are very smart but they do let their guard down at times.
    I will also warn u never accept a Pakistani woman as a cowife.I do not say that to be cruel but instead they don’t as a whole accept polygamy.Your life would be a nightmare because she is living with the inlaws understand.

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015
    Ana,

    Yes exactly if the men would be open and honest upfront with the woman he is interested in then Polygamy is fine and all is well BUTTT Polygamy is not these mens agenda Immigration is and that is why it is so easy for the men to just crap on these woman.They may really like the woman they marry bit that really don’t matter in the larger scheme of things like family politics and wife in Pakistan coming to find out about her husbands other marriage.
    If these woman like RiRa want to keep their marriages they r going to have to speak to the cowife and the inlaws because this is about culture not Islam and the family would have to accept the foreign wife.I find this nearly impossible to be frank.I myself don’t want to mix up with my husbands family or want my kids mixing up I find them gross for lack of a better word.
    RiRa is close enough being in China she could go to Pakistan by bus but I would not suggest it since her husband doesn’t want her there and his wife and parents are demanding him to divorce her.I don’t see that going well at all to be frank and she would be putting her life in her own hands.
    I think her only option is to speak to his wife and parents separate and get a feel for what is really going on if she intends not to divorce.

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015
    RiRa,

    Listen from what I read of your post.He was called back to Pakistan because his wife suspected he might be married.I doubt there ever was a family situation in dire straights.The woman I am certain is his wife and she is never going to accept Polygamy unless she has some kind of personal or financial gain to do so.
    I am so sorry u didn’t see this website before but now u better tell your husband to come clean and tell u everything.He is a liar so don’t expect the complete truth but u can get enough to figure stuff out.100% he is married more than likely his wife is his cousin as well.
    U r stuck that he signed a paper saying he was not married.These men will sign on the Quran if they think it will get them what they want.My own husband used me for immigration so I know what I am talking about here.
    My husband met me ran to the courts to divorce his cousin wife then kept her religiously without telling me for 8 yrs.The thought of it still creeps me out but he did it and thats the truth in it.
    As far as u going to Pakistan alone DON”T U DARE! u would be risking your life to do such a foolish thing esp knowing he has a wife there.Her or her family could harm u not to mention your husband or his family could do the same.Unless he invites u DO NOT GO and even if he does send for u I would think long and hard before u get on a plane and go there.Never trust your cowife she could poison u to be frank and it has to do with jealousy but also with property rights.She will not be willing to share property with u.They are greedy people just take a look at your husband and see his actions towards u to only see what I am saying.
    What city is your husband from?
    one good thing though is that u being in china u r close to him.He can just jump on a bus and come to u or vice versa.
    Listen something else.If u don’t want divorce then u need to demand he bring his wife on skype and talk with her and get her take on the situation and let her know u did not know about her and he said he was single.Bring everything in the open if u want to fight for your marriage.
    I will be very honest with u it don’t sound like u have the support of his family behind u so chances are this is not going to end in your favor.U must step up and demand to speak to his wife first and his parents second and explain to them u don’t want a divorce and see what they will say.At least u will make everything clear from your side.If he refuses u to speak with them then u know he is screwing around with u.

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    Another thing is, if the men treat their own women like dogs, men from those countries treat women like property and have no respect for them, what makes the foreign woman think they’d treat her any differently? Is it just because she is foreign?

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Gail,

    I would look at the Pakistani and foreign women situation more favorably, if the men did right by the foreign women. If they were to say to the foreign women, look I have a wife and family back in Pakistan. I’m able to marry you, keep them and take good care of both, it would be acceptable. If she accepts then he deal justly with the wives. The men don’t do it though. They only look out for themselves and the wives in Pakistan, which is usually cousin marriage/family. There is no brotherhood or justice. They are greedy. They want to get their citizenship and kick the foreign women to the curb – toss her out like a piece of trash. They act like they found their princess when they get with the foreign women and treats her like it until they get what they want. Once they get what they want for themselves and their family, they say, see ya. They are in the wind. They don’t give a damn about the foreign women, probably never really did. I don’t know how anyone who did care could actually do what they do. Like you said, people in the United States treat their dogs better.

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Anonymous, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    Welcome! It’s good to have you with us.

    I don’t think you should worry about anything. Worrying never made anything better, just worse. You have read some of the comments on this post/thread. You should know by now what the men are about, the family life and the culture. The men are usually loving, kind and charming to the foreign wives. Many have an agenda citizenship/Green card. They marry cousins and they do as their mothers’ say. Their family is their world. It all comes before a foreign wife.

    People are happy when they are getting what they want. Happiness for many is based on desires being fulfilled. He has his visa, his family have dreams of leaving Pakistan. You have your husband and your child. His family is showing you the love. Everyone’s wants, wishes and desires are being fulfilled right now. Everyone seems happy.

    The only way for you to know whether he has a wife or one lined up for him, is to wait and see. He said he wouldn’t go behind your back and marry another. He didn’t say he wouldn’t one day come to you and say he will marry his cousin.

    The question is whether any of it really matters. You are already in there with the marriage and being a family. If he comes to you and says that his family is forcing him to marry another woman or if he divorces you, what could you do, but go with it? Divorce won’t hurt him, but help him bring his family to the States or whatever country you are in.

    Only Allah knows the future, as I’m sure you know. You just have to ride it out. You could ride it out making the best of life and living it to the fullest or in constant thought, worrying and distress about what will happen, so you’ll look old, haggard, stressed and be extremely unhappy.

    It’s the best I could tell you.

    We’re here for you…

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Gail,

    I suspect gender segregation has a lot to do with the men being bisexual, turning to men. It goes way deeper than it, based on what Allah says in the Quran. I won’t go into all of it now. The segregation of men and women is ridiculous, yet no one seems to question it. People just go blindly with whatever they are told. No where in Quran does Allah say brother-in-faith and sisters-in-faith can’t be friends with one another and communicate with one another. Allah says men are protectors and maintainers of women (not only wives, but women). How are they to maintain and protect them, if they can’t communicate with them?

    Men and women mix freely in all countries except those that have a high population of Muslims. It’s in the countries where the Muslim men and women are separate they they have a serious problem with gays and bisexuals and rape of boys, men groping women and raping women. It’s crazy that women can’t feel safe amid men who claim to be Muslim because those men act like barbarians. You’d think they were back in the day when men rode by a woman, swooped her up, rode off with her and raped her. People need to be able to police themselves, but of course in countries in which Muslim men treat women as worthless and property, it can’t be done.

    What has the separation accomplished. The men turn to boys and other men. The women are left without their husbands. Polygamy is banned or frown upon. The men can’t turn to polygamy, which give them an outlet if they desire more than one wife.

    Some say that because the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wives had a screen between them and men when they communicated that it means women and men of today are to be separated. They fail understand or don’t know that Allah says the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are not like any other women. His wives’ punishment was double that of the other people. They weren’t allowed to ever marry again once the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was called back to Allah and left this earth. There were certain conditions for the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his wives (The Mothers of the Believers).

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015
    I am running for work but I will read everyones post when I get home tonight.

    Ana I seen u posted Pakistan’s Hidden Shame it will shed some light for foreign woman.I am not saying all Pakistani men are bisexual but again ALOTTT of them and I mean ALOTTT have engaged in gay activity.I won’t say they are all doing with children but for sure the gay aspect of all this because of the gender segregation is very real.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 30, 2015
    Salaam Anabellah ! Thanks for your advise based on the real truth you know about paki man. His plan is in one month i should be landing on Pakistan. Today he phoned my father and my uncle for tell them he loves me and he wants to live with me.. Oh God all is mucj weird like stupid joke i hope could wake up with amnesia tomorrow… i much screw blinded confused ufff..
  • Anonymous

    August 30, 2015
    Assalamu Alaikum all, I am a european girl married to a pakistani man, we have a almost year old Daughter. His whole family knows about it and they love the child to bits, i have spoken to his mother a few times also. My husband and I have been together for 4 years. He just recently got the visa through me. After reading all your comments I am a bit worried now to be honest. There’s no change in his character at all in fact he has become more loving since he’s got his papers. He is planning to go to pakistan soon , he has asked me if I want to come along with him and His family desperately wants to see me and our child too, but i told him i don’t want to go yet, he accepted my wish, so he will be going alone. Now after reading all these comments I am a bit worried that he might get married behind my back also. We had a discussion about this a few times and he swore on Quran that he wouldn’t get married behind my back, but I am still worried now after reading what some of you have gone through.. Am i worrying for no reason???
  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @RiRa, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I am so sorry your are very depressed and sad. I would expect that you would be, based on all that you are going through. You’ve been through and are going through an awful lot. You really need to try to take better care of yourself. You said your parents are ill, the last thing you want is for them to become more ill because they are worried about you.

    I will be totally honest with you about what I think of your situation. I will not tell someone something that is not true to make the person feel better. I think everyone on this blog are honest people and give the best advice based on their knowledge and what they know of a person’s situation. We can only give advice based on what a person shares.

    I think your husband is no different than any of the other Pakistani men who we read about here on the blog that is married to a foreign woman. As you know, to a Pakistan his mother is most important to him. His mother and the family rules his life. The men usually marry their cousins. They keep their wealth in the family. They do whatever it takes to take care of their families, even if it means marrying a foreign woman for citizenship or money. Whether the man loves the foreign woman or not doesn’t really matter because she is the least important thing to him. Action speaks louder than words. A man saying how much he loves his foreign wife means nothing when he devotes his life to his cousin wife and her and his family.

    Your husband has let you know he has another wife in Pakistan. His family wants him to divorce you and he wants a divorce. He says he doesn’t care what you do. He said don’t come to Pakistan because he will be in trouble, if you do. I think he has said all of it to you because he is being truthful. He is letting you know what the facts are. He is letting you know that it will not work out for you and him. He is basically letting you know so that you will leave him alone so that he could be at peace in Pakistan with his wife and his family. He has spelled it out as best and clearly as he possibly can.

    He probably does have some love for you and he probably hurt that you hurt, but there is nothing he can do. His hands are tied. His lord is his mother and family in Pakistan. He says he will get to you when he can, be patient. I think he would probably SNEAK off and be with you again if the opportunity presents itself. What I mean by it is, if he gets a job outside Pakistan (in China again, for instance or another such country) and you can go there. You will have to be his secret wife, because, as he said, he will be in trouble if they know he is still with you. I’m not Allah, so things could be different. Only Allah knows how things will work.

    You said you can’t let your family know what is happening because they are ill. I don’t think them knowing about the situation would help change anything for you. There is absolutely nothing they could do, other than try to be supportive of you and help you get back on your feet. Based on what you said about them, you need to be supportive of them and helping them.

    If I understand you correctly, you have a registered marriage in the country in which you live. Once you get stronger, you may want to end the marriage officially so you could go on with your life. He said he doesn’t care if you go to the courts or what you do. Otherwise, you could wait for him to one day come to you and be with you secretly when ever you can. If you expect to live a “normal” (which there is no such thing) married life with the man, you are fooling yourself. The odds are against you for it. Remember, Allah could do anything.

    I can understand that you fear you will never get another husband. Allah knows best whether he would give you another one or not. You would have a better chance of getting one if you believe good things about Allah and begin to focus on Him and not on your husband or any other human being or thing.

    So, those are my thoughts on the matter. What you describe seems typical of Pakistani men married to foreign women. I’ve only known of two women who things worked in their favor. It’s our dear Gail, here. Then there is Fatima who used to be on the blog here. She has an Indian husband.

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikim As Salaam

    You must do what you think you need to do. If you feel you have to see for yourself what this man is really about, and are ready to risk your life and that of your children for it, no one can stop you. If you think that love is the begin all and end all for you and it’s what matters most to you, then go with it. When he begin to show you what he and his family are really like, be ready for us to tell you that we told you so.

    We, here on the blog, have let you know what most of the men from Pakistan seeking a foreign wives are all about. We let you know about their culture that supersedes any Islam or any other culture or respect of others. Your mind is made up. We have to see how Allah lets it play out for you. When are you expected to leave?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 30, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum all dears:
    The most i read the most i really hate pak men and pak country while i give the best of myself with those ppl they dissapoint me more cos im very kind and sweet but forget our culture and manners are so different thats why I blame in me expecting they do the same. I m like i dont want to let my man go first i wanna see the truth if hes just taking advantage on me or he really felt inlove with me. But theres no way to know it certain till we meet each other in person. Nowadays im much tention in sad mood cos i tried to leave him but he didnt allow it he said no no you are mt wife and nobody can come between us… there arent a day he does not tell me how much he loves me and etc etc. For about 2 years. How a cheat fishing man could endure 16 months following a woman ? Just giving me love and care ? And send daily pics of him..?? Is this a lie ? How can i run away from him if i just see every second of my life the love he gives to me and i started believing could be true.. im lost in darkness sorry all.. Allah bless you
  • ummof4

    August 30, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum,

    RiRa, thank you for answering the questions. It sounds as if your husband is a liar. He is married to the woman in Pakistan and is married to you. He may be afraid to come back to China if he lied when he married you and said he was single. He is afraid for you to come to Pakistan because of all the problems that it will cause for him. It sounds as if you love him and want to know what your status is as his wife. Is he ever coming back to you? Will you ever be together again? Only Allah knows. Pray to Allah to send you guidance and you will receive it. Allah dies not give any of us a burden greater than we can bear.
    Are you Chinese? Is your family Muslim too? If your family is Muslim, what about your father or brothers or uncles in this situation? What do they think about it?

  • RiRa

    August 30, 2015
    W’salam ummof4,
    Yes, Im from muslim family but Im not chinesse, Im working in China. He also told me that he regret why he dt tell me before nikah. Because he knows I will not accept. He never back after that but he still in communication with me but whenever he has pressure and stressful he will be easy to angry and want to be separated. He said he want to be with me but not sure when it is. Because he said still struggle with his business.

    None of my family know abt this problem. I dont want to see them sick because of my problem. Only my mother knows that my husband back to Pak. To know this she always cry imagine how is my condition without husband in other country. My husband also feel guilty with my parents and always ask about my parents condition. He is a good husband actually when he’s with me. Feed me every morning with his hand. At night he alwys cut me fruits n feed me like a baby. Asked me to sleep before him and woke me up. I really want to see my husband and see his condition. I dont want to stay here without my husband. I dont know what to do.

  • RiRa

    August 30, 2015
    @anabellah @ummof4,
    It was me, after editting, my name bcome undefined..
  • RiRa

    August 30, 2015
    @anabellah, @ummof4,
    He said don’t come because if i come he will bebin trouble. And he will come to me but still dont know when it is. Yesterday i called him because at night he told me that he is in so much painfull back, i just worry he got accident. Bcuz he never want to share his bad condition cuz worry if i cant sleep here. Then a woman answer and said haloo haloo and drop the call. I ask him with many massages, why he allow someone else to pick the call. he said dont know if hv a call. No call yesterday. And he becone angry about my mssg bcuz i wanna come there. He said why i never listen him. I said i alwys listen n now i want to be with my husband. He said do whatever i want or if i go to court. Before that we r fine, he alwys keep to pay attention abt me, but indontnknow why suddenly he change so much. If i get divorce i dt know how sad r my parents, my father has heart attack now his condition also not really good. I have trauma if to find smeone else..im scared.,

    Im living in china. Now he’s in pakistan. Before we got married we’re in friendship and he propose me when he visit china on 2011. So we hv LDR for 3,5 years and he visit China lastbyear to marry me. For registration in my embassy in china was so difficult. He alr provided unmarriage affidavit and i still have the original one with me. We did nikah with an imam. Then he neednto back to Pak bcuz he cant extend his visa then the next month he visit my country n mk registration there also the wedding party. After finished, we back to china, n will fiind him a job. He had some interview but need to wait to join the company for sometimes. Then suddenly he wantbto back to pakistan bcuz of family issue. He said his mother not happy and if not going back there will be in trouble with his kother n his mother’s family. I dt allow him, but he said he had big trouble there. Then he said will earn money then he will ask me to come there bcuz we dt hv money after all of these things. Once he arrived there, he called me on skype. show me a woman, he said its his wife n want to divorce me n that woman r so rude with him n he look scared. His voice is louder than him. I was shocked n i really dt understand bcuz i hv his unmarriage affidavit how come he alr marriage. I thought may be its only a trick fr his family bcuz she looks older than him may bcuz it was dark :D At that time i hv so much bleeding and not stop for more than 1month nobody with me. After few days, he called me n explain everything, he said he want to responsible to me n pls be patient. He said his family want him to mk divorce letter but he dt want to do. N alwys gv me support during that bleeding period n alwys checking my condition. since thatbtime my condition is really bad i loss much weight and so much depressed..

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Sabrina,

    What you described about the helpless women there is just awful. It’s terrible and so, so sad. What is even more sad is that there isn’t anything we women or anyone here on the blog can do about it. We could only warn women who are thinking about hooking up with one of those degenerates.

    The men are suppose to be maintainers of protectors of women. They are supposed to protect, help and care for the women, children and men who are weak and oppressed. Instead, they do the complete opposite. They are the oppressors. Then they wonder why Allah has sent them no help, and have them live as they do.

    It seems hopeless. It’s not that prayers would work for them either, other than praying for all believers (we don’t have to know who they are. It’s a general prayer). Allah tells us pray for all believers in the world. Other than it, our, as in the people on this blog, hands are tied.

    Sabrina, you are a sweetheart to care for you co-wife (your sister-in-faith) as you do. Just her knowing you’re on her side may bring her some moments of happiness and temporary relief. You are a good person. It makes me teary eyed {{{hugs}}}

  • Sabrina

    August 29, 2015
    @Umair I am not sure about Pakistani politics other than what he tells me. He is vey passionate about it.
    I try to understand but his world back there is so different he walks round with a gun, which I would never see in the UK. His daughters couldn’t go to school for 2 months because of the shooting in the school in Pewshwar.
    @ anabellah I would love to visit Pakistan but the area my husband lives in would be a definite no no my co cant even go down the shop without being called a prostitute. I think they would just see me as a threat. And a possible target for kidnapping. The subject of my co going to the shop was one of the first things that alerted me to my husband not always saying it as it is, not long after we were married he would complain my co was spending too much money then he slipped up saying she was not allowed down the shop on her own when I asked him how she spending too much money then if she cant go down the shop he wouldn’t answer. He later told me that his brother does the shopping but he blames co for the spending. . Anther time I had to stick up for her. I think you put that perfectly about non believers and hypocrites who pray. The programme the Shame of Pakistan puts into perspective their double standard.
    Another thing that angers me with my husband family is they hit the girls. Last eid he sent me a pictures of them in their new clothes the girls had black eyes when I asked about it he said the his brother and his children had been hitting them nobody seems to stand up for them. When he went back to Pakistan he didn’t seem to confront the issue with his brother. Really when I think about it when I say myself and co-wife at peace with each other, we are as accepting each other goes, but the life her and the girls have got I’m not happy with.
  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    Listening to some of these stories here made me think about a song from the movie, “Dream Girls”. It’s an intense kind of love and I don’t think it’s the kind a Pakistani person understands. I barely know if I understand it. (For those who don’t listen to music, close your ears). :-)

  • ummof4

    August 29, 2015
    As-salaamu alaikum and hello all,

    RiRa welcome to the blog. So you are married to a Pakistani man. What country do you live in and what country does your husband live in? Does he have another wife? Did he marry her first or did he marry you first?
    Please answer the questions so we can advise you as best we can.

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    RiRa, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Welcome! I’m glad you found our blog. No, you are not the only one in a bad situation. You are not alone.

    I can’t answer the question about how to get an invitation letter so you could go to Pakistan. I can’t answer how easy it is for a woman to get around in any city in Pakistan or whether you would be able to find work there. I’m hopeful Gail, Umair, Mari2, Sabrina or Spirited, if she is reading, could answer you.

    RiRa, I understand that you love your husband very much, you miss him, and you want to be with him. I don’t know your entire story, but, based on what you have said, I do not think it is a good idea for you to travel to Pakistan. You should not go. I don’t think it is safe for you there. I am concerned, as you said your husband is back in Pakistan and you and he had problems in your marriage before he left. You said others interfered in your marriage and he got quite emotional. I can only assume that the people who interfered in your marriage was his family. Family, especially the mothers, are extremely important to Pakistani people. What the family says goes.

    If your husband and you are now having problems, he did not ask you to come there, and is not helping you get there, you should NOT go there. There is no one there to take care of you. He didn’t ask you to come and there is no guarantee he will be there to greet you. If his family tells him not to go to you, he most likely will listen to them. It is dangerous for a foreign woman to travel to Pakistan alone with no one there to greet her and no one there who cares about her. You would be entirely there all by yourself and on your own.

    Maybe you don’t want to go back to your native country, where ever it is, but you certainly, without a doubt, do not want to go to Pakistan. You said you don’t want a divorce. I could understand you love your husband, and do not want a divorce. If your husband wants one, what can you do to stop him? You could stay married to him, but if he won’t see you or talk to you, what is left for you to do? What good is being married to him?

    What has your husband said to you. Did he tell you that he wants to divorce you?

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Umair,

    I’ve posted below a link to the video that Gail watched. A commentator named “Lee” was here, over on another thread, and brought the video to our attention.

  • Umair

    August 29, 2015
    Sabrina ANP is going down with the most corrupt party with Imran Khan’s PTI clean sweep KPK.Is he Billour from Peshawar area? Imran Khan married Jemima one of the best in UK.Now they are divorced with children in limbo but with mother..

    @Gail,are you talking about the Shameful Kasur incident just 50k south of Lahore.That’s the biggest Child Abuse in the history of Pakistan.Yeah definetly Gail,they are naked underneath Hijabs & Scarfs worse than Bikini’s!

    “God has never changed the condition of nation,who doesn’t want to change there”!

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Sabrina,

    I’m writing this quickly, as I have to run out. Your co-wife probably would have a better life if the people were following Quran and not culture. She would have more rights. Many Muslims threw the Quran behind their backs once the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) left this earth. The people went back to their old ways. They went back to pre-Islamic times. They took the women’s rights away and treat them like chattel again. It’s very sad. It’s not Islam at all. They only say it is.

  • RiRa

    August 29, 2015
    Salam all,

    I thought its only me face bad situation. Now i realized so many strong women on this blog. dont know how to start actually.
    now im stuck cant do anything n dont know what to do.i dt meet my husband For so long time since he back to Pak. Once he back then i knw his status was fake before with me. Now i know everything but dt know why he change so much. I understand his situation and he also dont know how to come to me now bcuz of many issues. I feel bad whenever after he met his family he become emotional easily (he’s not living with family, only meet several times in a month) n I will not accept if he want to divorce me. N its only bcuz of presure from something else. I really want to meet him, but dont know how to get invitation letter and if i visit, just worry he dont want to meet me.. Im not living in my country i alr asked to pak consulate, but need invitation letter if i want to visit Pak. Is that easy for woman to go anywhere in 1 of city in Pak? Or living alone there for sometimes in case he cant stay with me? Is that easy to get job there if i want to work there? Honestly i dont want to back to my country without my husband or before my problem is solved. Thank you..

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Sabrina,

    It was most weird to me when I leaned there are people who memorized the Holy Quran, call themselves Hafiz or something and don’t have a clue what the ayat (verses) in the Quran mean. It is beyond crazy and senseless to me. What good is memorizing something that the person doesn’t understand? It’s one of the reason I tell Muslims to learn the Quran in any language they understand, and don’t waste time trying to learn Arabic when they could learn the Quran and live it. Some would only spend all their time trying to learn a foreign language and not learn the meaning. There are some who can learn and read Arabic easily. Good for them. They should do it. Over all, people need to do what is best for them. Learning the meaning of what is in the Holy Quran and living it is what is most important. Allah made people of all races, colors, nationalities and languages. He did not make everyone to read and speak Arabic.

    I understand there are many Muslims who can’t read and rely on what an Imam or someone tells them. There are a lot of illiteracy. People must remember that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was an illiterate. For the people, if their is a will there is a way. Allah teaches. Unfortunately there are many Muslims who rely on what others tell them, hence there is ISL, the Taliban, Al Qaider and other sects that are creating mischief in the land, but think they are doing good. They don’t know that Allah tells us to leave people alone. It’s not for anyone to force Islam on anyone, not even force it on a Muslim. They who do it is sooooo very wrong.

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Gail,

    If you remember, I was one totally ignorant about Pakistan and their culture until you and Jenny began talking about it. What you and she was saying, still was going over my head for a long, long time. You both had to keep stressing that you were talking Pakistani Culture not Islam. I had a hard time getting it. Jenny said the people don’t know what’s in the Quran and most don’t own a Quran. I couldn’t get it in my head for the life of me. It was because I am a convert and Islam (Quran) is my world. So, all I could see is people who say they are Muslim are staunch in the belief as I am. Eventually, it began to sink into my head that it is not so. There are other women out there who think the same as I used to think – that all people who say they are Muslim follow Islam. They don’t think they have to be so particular the person or about investigating the person or deciphering who is really following the religion and who isn’t. It’s not true. We must investigate thoroughly.

    You are correct.Most of those people (Pakistani) walk about wearing the scar or hijab, but are they God fearing? I’m sure you may be able to find one here or there who is, but for the most part, NO, they are not. It annoys me when people come hear and say one does not know what is in a person’s heart. I have to ask them why in the world do the person think Allah speaks in the Holy Quran of all types of people and their traits and characteristics? Why do they think Allah tells us to investigate? It’s not just information that is in the Holy Quran to entertain us. What is in a person’s heart manifest itself for others to see. Of course, Allah is the ONLY ONE who knows exactly all that is in a person’s heart completely and what they hide. We need to know about people to function properly in life with them.

    The condition of the people in Pakistan let’s me know what is in their hearts. It’s an extremely poor Third, World, Country. Why is it like it? Allah says He takes care of believers. He provides. He is a compassionate God and a Merciful God. He is Kind and much more. The people there don’t get any relief because they are steep in culture that includes abomination (such as the hidden shame (homosexuality) and it includes greed, corruption and much more. They try to get whatever they can by any means necessary, even if they have to use foreign women to get it. As I stated in an earlier post, Allah says He would not change a condition of a people until they first change what is in their hearts. It’s why they live in the conditions in which they are in and there seems no relief in sight for them. As I said the mosques are there, the call to prayer is heard and they pray. Allah says in the Quran that some Muslim’s prayers are for show and useless. Hypocrites pray too.

    People may ask why the United States Isn’t like Pakistan then. They say people here don’t serve and worship Allah as He instructs in the Holy Quran. The difference is the people in the U.S do not profess to be Muslim. They straight up say they are not. They are not hypocritical by saying they are Muslim, but everything shows they are not. The Muslims took a covenant with Allah. The non-Muslims did not. People who say they are Muslim who are in Pakistan say they are Muslim and may look the part, but that is it. It’s the difference. What is expected of those who call themselves Muslims is not expected of those who say they are not.

  • Gail

    August 29, 2015
    Umair,

    I don’t think I said western men were much better to accept other peoples children because I believe men and women in general have a very hard time trying to be fair when it comes to raising other peoples children.
    I have adopted my excowife’s children and raised them since basically birth and there have been times I struggle.I would be a liar if I said it was a piece of cake.
    I noticed though with Pakistani men and the culture in general they frown on things like adoption unless it is inside the family.They would not take an unknown child and adopt it from what I have seen but instead they give to mosque that help orphans.Then u brought up the child stays with the mother until age 7 because all children are considered the fathers property(for lack of a better word).Then I watched last night on youtube about all this child rape going on inside the country to street children.I think what is so appalling to me as a USA citizen having lived in Pakistan personally for me it has to do with how Pakistan betrays itself as a Allah fearing nation but in reality u have this society of gay and bisexual behavior running rampant through society.I don’t know how religion and immorality can coexist.It blows my mind.Now in saying that I get it that is is the same in the Catholic religion esp with the priest etc… Soo I don’t want to come across as Europe is the best etc.. I just feel like it is better to deal the beast u know than to go try to deal something u don’t know.
    Zahra can’t believe that this boy and his entire family could be lying to her but as u and I know the entire family will do their part to trap the foreign girl by being loving and sweet and calling her daughter etc…These people have no morals yet they claim because they were a scarf or hijab they fear Allah.They fear nothing and lust after money.Money is their G.D.

  • Sabrina

    August 29, 2015
    @ Zhara
    You got to remember that Prince Charming falling in love is a very western notion. Also Muslims from countries like Pakistan mix how they view Islam with their culture. A lot of them learn the Quran off by heart without understanding a word. Or they can not read so it is how the Imam interprets it to them is their understanding. In my husbands areas if they went by Islam by co-wife would have more rights.
  • Sabrina

    August 29, 2015
    @Zahara

    I think you should take notice of what Gail and Umair is saying, you say about helping him financial ooh no don’t in their culture its is seen as the man’s duty to provide, you think they would let their wives and sisters give them money like that. This is one reason their mothers are so possessive over their boys they are their only income especially if anything happens to the father. They will see you as a cash cow sending money as Gail says they will be laughing especially if you are doing it out of love. My husband would never take a penny off me, I have tested him a few times. He lost his job in Kuwait for 3 months he had no money coming in when I offered to help he wouldn’t take it, he would see it as an insult. When I’m with him in Kuwait I never pay for anything, not even coffee for us which I hate. But in countries like Pakistan and middle east it seen as an embarrassment for the man if the woman is paying.

    Your question would all the family know and be on it yes you are improving their sons life and in turn their life. If they can get him to the west then they will use it a springboard to send more to work there, more money gets sent back to them back home. It would be a big insult to break an engagement so I cant see him doing that, but the girls family wont mind that if he does get a chance abroad.

    @Umair my husband is with the ANP. He tells me is going up in the party. He tells me he rather deal with the Taliban he never seeing fighting like it before. We gone through a very bad patch I fought with him, over things he said then I find untrue.
    He knows now its my way or the highway and being his usually boastful self he told a lot of people he married me so he doesn’t want the shame of divorced or the I told you so from co-wife family that it wouldn’t never work between us. So if he wants us to work and all stay as one big family he has to change his ways.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 29, 2015
    Salaam and good morning to everyone ! Thanks for your words and for take your time for write me.. i m much cold heart now. Thanks to your advises i can see more clear everything i was really really blind.this punjabi man is like real cos he post pics of my kids in fb to all his family and friends then he says hes my son . It is very naughty for me. And things like that makes me feel that from first maybe he started a game with me where himself felt inlove unexpected way and maybe now he really loves me. But i have landed with all i had read and indeed all my family and friends stopped me to go to pak cos they said i will never come back again. By the way i wrote a lettee to my ambassador there noticing him i was about to be therw sooner.. MashAllah he replied me the email suggesting let us know the right place you will be in the complete adress in order to know where are u exactly. But i think now how someone could find me on that village where just i saw dust and evergreen fields ?? My worry now is when i ll leave him he will try to find me like mad he will call my mom my brother my cousins and i want to give him an explanation why im leaving and why im not going to come to pakistan.. ya Allah ! A big broken heart pain is waiting to me ! Tears and bad times if i mistake by chance and he really was true or he really loved me and i didnt trust him… now i just wanna run and forget all of this but shaytan comes again to mw and tell me go go he really loves you and you will be the princess of Gujrat as you dreamt…have a good evening to everyone…
  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Umair,

    Thank you for correcting me. I’m sorry I misunderstood.

  • Umair

    August 29, 2015
    Thank you Ana,

    No,one point you misunderstand is that the honour killing of his sister,is she talks with someone else with the ref.of Sabrina’s point that his husband don’t let his sister talk with any man.Don’t have mobile or Social media.

    Yes,I think Gail has spent 10-15 yrs in PK to have absolute knowledge & skills,that Pakistan culture dictate rather than Islam.b)Mothers have an absolute say,if No mother then Elder sister or sisters.

    Even I want to have a Virgin wife,who is untouched.I will want my advice of my mother,but not absolute say of my mother.She is not like that,this is the girl for you Umair,you have to marry her at any cost.This is NOT in Islam but a forced marriage(Illegal Marriage or even Zina).Many children are fixed with other cousins since birth in villages,when they grow up will be there to take to their home(Case is of the girl).Otherwise family feuds will occur for generations.I can’t be more personal giving my own examples…

    Zahra,don’t you think 23 yrs young man can handle a women with 2-3 kids?The person who can understand is who himself is divorcee & have fear of GOD.It’s hard to excerpt someone’s else children.Some angel who will accept it not just saying,you know now why a Divorcee women is looked down or frowned upon in Pakistan with disgust as mother has the children until 7 yrs,if she is not skunk.The assumption is that if she is divorced for a reason,2nd,3rd time divorcee will confirm that assumption which is true in certain cases that women is not right.

    I disagree with Gail a bit,that’s it’s NOT only Pakistani but accepting anyone’s children is not easy,In Western counties(US/UK/AU/Can) the children are killed as well with the baggage from his or her marriage.That’s where I disagree.

    I wanted to marry a women with children,I am a bachelor,my mother,Aunts(Uncle’s wives),cousins that we will get you an unmarried girl as it’s really hard to raise someone’s child as you own.Her husband was in Army was martyred very early but had one children in that time.She was younger than me,because she married quite an early age.They were right it will be harsh/cruel on me to accept someone’s else children if I never had mine…

    Zahra,I couldn’t give more personal account.I use to hear these stories of foreign women getting used for Pyar,which means love in Urdu but for PR in that country(Short Cut) way in 80’s & 90’s but now due to Internet/technology you know about people before setting a foot on the land or country.These women have changed their religion,left families & you use them with what image of Islam potray.Few have become Christians to marry as marrying a local girl is the short cut way,divorce her bring your real wife from PK,mostly cousin or not cousins.As Gail said many family members don’t even know he has a secret wife,let alone the girl who he is marrying.

    The other reasons marrying in cousins is that you know them as outside their have been frauds in marriages.

    The reason I said that is because i DON’T want you to think every Pakistani men is like it,mostly are but not all.The rationale for me being giving so personal examples to you on the blog.This is not ON,that women has reverted to Islam,with image of Islam did you give to her?Not very good to start with.You know how the children are raised who marry to other religion faith,me being to UK(London),US(NY/LA),Canada(Toronto),AU(Syd/Melb) to see the world.

    Sorry my replies are late because I am in different time zone than you!It’s day in U.S.,night here!

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Dear Zahra Gujar,

    There is no guarantee that Allah will protect you in this situation. It appears you are marrying the man for “lust” and Allah says don’t marry for “lust”. You can’t be marrying this man because he appears to be a good believing brother who wants to pray with you and raise your kids to be good believing children etc. There isn’t much Islam in Pakistan from what I can see. It’s all culture.

    Allah could very well be protecting you now by giving you all the information that you are receiving at your fingertips from the computer. If you disregard His signs, you could very well be on your own. He may forgive you for what you’ve done down the road, but it doesn’t mean you won’t have to live the whole nightmare out before he gives you any relief. I’m just saying. Allah knows best.

  • Gail

    August 28, 2015
    Zahra Gujar,

    U asked Allah to guide u and he has I am very sincere when I say his engagement was never broken and he is still 100% engaged with his cousin.
    Look u can’t break an engagement in Pakistan because u want another girl.I mean u can but u better believe u r going to get your a$$ shot dead if u r trying to screw a family member.I husband picked me over his cousin and divorced her and believe u me ever since I came in the picture it has been nothing but a horrible family feud like u would never believe.
    Please for the sake of your children walk away from this mess.U seen he was fishing on the internet for other women and u r the fish that took the bait understand? Allah will send u someone better then this crap I can assure u if u just wait and stay patient.
    I would rather see u with an older man in his 40s or 50s and live polygamy than marry a 23 yr old Pakistani kid that is marrying for immigration and financial means.
    Understand this every single time u send them money they r laughing and making fun of u that u r so stupid.It is time to get your head out of the clouds and come back to earth where everyone else lives.Don’t destroy your kids futures u think u crying now u will be screaming later after he robs u blind.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015
    :( each minute passing and i become more dissapointed. I have no enough words for that situation.. oh dear you words are now like i heartbeat i already have … but yet i cannot believe all the family could dare to do such cheap thing like that. Are they really in need and ignorant liers to do all of this together ? They thought maybe :that woman is our !! And now i realize that the cousin sister i use to chat maybe is the arrange.. this is the worst nightmare i have being facing in my whole life
    Now is my turn to show all of them Allah is my protector and with him no nobody can hurt me..
  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    You’ve got to use some common sense now, as well. Pakistani men want to marry virgins. At a certain age, the women are consider beyond the age of marriage. Even when they are young, as you are, they are considered old. divorce is frowned upon. I’m assuming you were divorce, as I can’t remember what you said in the earlier post. Those men don’t like to raise other men’s children. Do you really think love is the reason he wants to marry you or is the fact that you love him good enough? Think about your children. Do you want to take a chance on that man and drag your children through the mud with it? SIGH

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    I understand now. I’m a little slow sometimes LOL Forgive me.

    I’m very much concerned for you because based on what you have said in your earlier post, you’ve got a lot going for yourself. I think you said you’re a home owner. You have a good job. You work very hard. You could really be a dream come true for many men, not only Pakistani or foreign men, but Americans, Canadian or where ever. Especially for a Pakistani man.

    I see what’s going on now. It’s even more clear to me now than what Gail, Umair and I suspect. It is probably far more true than not. They let him break the engagement with the cousin because you are a good catch. You are money in the bag. They see nothing right now, but Sack of Money

    Breaking the engagement was easy, if it did actually happen. He could still be engaged to her, but they are letting you believe she is not. How would you have any way of knowing? May Allah forgive me if I’m wrong, but the cousin is probably in on the plan. She knows, if he marries you, he will eventually divorce you, marry the her, and bring her and all the rest of the family here, exactly as Gail and Umair said. Then you and your children will be left heartbroken and in a very sad state.

    I really hope you don’t go for the okie doke. They are all about the money. Of course, they are treating you like royalty now, and making you feel inclusive. They’ve got to seal the deal and make this thing happen.

    I don’t know what else anyone can say to make you see what’s happening. There is not enough love in the world that should make you take a chance on that man and end up on the losing end. You know now, that in Pakistan the culture rule. The family dictates what the men do, especially and in particular the “mother”. You are no exception to the rule. You are the rule. What more can I say??? Even if you were to go through with it, how could you feel secure in a relationship in which there is so much doubt from the start?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015
    He was engagement with cousin just and he broke engagement 8 months ago he said his parents allowed him
  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Oh, I see. He was engaged to someone else and he broke that engagement when he met you?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015
    Walekum us salaam
    Yes he did he broke it since first met and he said hes parents let him his own choice..
  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam

    I’m a little bit confused. Did he break the engagement or not? If not, do you still intend to go there?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum how are you all. Im here so interested in all you said and i really appreciate your time about me cos you all maybe are saving a life.
    Yes sometimes the need of being loved is more than the logial things. I took that situation too much seriously cos i am the woman who use to give all in a relationship in order to make it works. I accepted him with bad mood flaws and blinded cos i believe he was genuine. How a man could blow a woman that way ? We reached one year and a half talking everyday. We had fights jealous from each other but always we end happy. He never ever asking me for money but i was send some amounts from my heart for help him.. cos i love him so much and i want to share cos my ALLAH happy on me. He announced in public our relation with all family cousins and his brother. He also contact my family and sons he care all seems real like a dream like true thats why i trust he ask for my sons all time . My only doubt is : i found in his fb friendlist hundred of girls from other countries : brazil philiphines Usa Canada etc… but he deleted all of them when i said. I found him in his own chat seemed friendly and respectful place. I also meet 2 very nice friends from that place. He showed me his village all the family in parties live video call… gi i feel elder woman by his side but i really willing to see him in person.. what another proof can i put in him for trust him all ? Im really confused why a pakistami man could use me and throw me to the dust bin rather i give him all in my hands. The last thing is i just putted on on my Allah hands.. but now that i read all my angels here who lead me i wanna stoo this shit but i cant i havent enough power i left my life in her hands why he cannot be an exception ? Why God tell me !!! Im also willing to know Pakistan im inlove with the culture im muslimah converted and want to improve my Islam infact i told my two friend in Islamabad and India if something bsd happens to me i run away to ypur houses cos i go near india border.. well im brave but stupid brainless blinded following my man just.. im crying.. Gail Anabellah ummair.. . Love u so much Allah bless u bros and sisters
  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    @Gail,

    Maybe you should consider becoming an activist in regard to the matter. You could work it with the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. I could see you now on TV being interviewed for your political views on the matter. I have a vivid imagination. Insha Allah, you could write a book, as well. It is sure to be a Best Seller. Maybe it’s your calling. Don’t miss it. You’d be awesome at it.

    More power to the people LOL. No, all joking aside, I think you’d be good at it and people would take notice.

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Thank you very much for coming forward, and confirming all that Gail has been saying. I see it as a very admirable thing that you did. You seem to be a very good heart person. Gail does know her stuff.

    I wonder how the Baroness Warsi gets away with being so vocal about the matter, and hasn’t been attacked for it. What she says paints Pakistani men in a very bad light. Yet, she hasn’t been harmed – thank Allah much. I used to follow the political career of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. I was in a state of shock when she was killed.

    I’ve been reading about the migrant crisis in the European Union. It’s heart wrenching. I get upset sometimes reading about it. All those refugees, seeking political asylum who are drowning. I feel for the countries that have to shoulder the burden of taking on all those people. I just read this morning about the lorry that was found on a road in Austria with about 79 people in it who were dead. I can’t imagine having opened the door to see all those people who were dead in there. Human trafficking is big business now.

    @Sabrina, :-)

    It’s good to hear from you again. It’s been a long time. Thank you much for sharing with us your knowledge on the Pakistani crisis; I will call it. I should probably say one of their crises, as they have so many.

    I especially am glad that you spoke of the person whom you know who was killed when she broke her engagement to a Pakistani man. I could see how it would happen, as Umair stated – an honor killing. It what these women who are falling for these men online or else where need to be aware of.

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    @Gail,

    One would think you had a PHD based on the knowledge you have regarding the Pakistani people and culture. You’ve got it going on. When you were over there living on and off, you had to have been very astute with a keen eye. Not many people are like it.

    As you stated, you could only put the facts out there and hope that the women will read and take heed. Though, some people have to learn the hard way. They have to go through it and see for themselves.

    I’m very glad that Umair, being a Pakistani male, validated all that you’ve said, instead of trying to find fault in the messenger. It’s so helpful when others back you up, such as Umair. It was very admirable of him.

    I could understand people wanting a better life, as well, but not by lying and taking advantage of people. Pakistan is considered a Muslim country, but there is no Islam there. There may be some mosques, call to prayer and people praying, but overall, it lacks substance when it comes to Islam. I base what I say on what Allah says in the Holy Quran about people and their condition. The people there are steep in culture. The culture doesn’t coincide with Islam. It’s all contrary. Allah says He won’t change a person’s condition until they change what is in their hearts.

  • Gail

    August 28, 2015
    Umair,

    Thank u for validating what I am saying from a Pakistani males perspective.I have learned so much about Pakistani culture that I think I could have a PHD in it considering I am not Pakistani myself.lol
    I just want to educate foreign women that this is going on and Pakistani men are fishing for women through the internet as a fast track means to get immigration in a foreign country.On the flip side since I have lived in Pakistan I honestly get why the men are doing it but the problem is Pakistani culture is nothing like European culture so the majority of the time the women get truly hurt and more times than not the woman have children from other marriages.I just want to get the information out there to the women then let them decide what to do with the facts.I am not against anyone trying to better themselves but I am against using innocent unsuspecting women to do it.Again it really does help for others to speak up and say yeah this is correct.The more people stand against this type of crime and I do label it as a crime the more women who come online to investigate will see hey there is not one person talking like this but alot.
    We will never be able to save all but we can educate them so some will not fall the trap and others that do go ahead they will be more educated from the start and maybe leave the marriage faster.Either way they will not be in the dark so I am thankful for that.

  • Umair

    August 28, 2015
    Sabrina is right in saying that that their sisters or daughters will be killed in honour killing.

    Gail,point are so right,that it looks like she is born in Pakistan from start,about the value of white skin & blue eyes,blonde hair beauty.The women use fair & lovely creams as dark colour is not preferred.

    Sabrina,is right about the women fighting over property & money,as daughter in law is considered a threat.Mother in law,always keeping eye on husbands financiers.

    Sabrina,which political party is he from, PTI?Yes even in Pakistan marriage proposal is throughly checked,this is out of country,culture marriage.Yes,the family is on it,that if one son goes,whole family or whole villages can come.He is setting up the base.Note:look at the Refugees & Illegal Immigrants coming to Europe(Greeve/Italy),is from the Gujrat area,predominantly villages.So area to area matters a lot in Pakistan or city to city.

    Again,I am not like it to don’t have my wife had the phone,but I am from Lahore from a very affluent area with studied in elite private schools/colleges in Pakistan,so I am well settled with so many servants.But mobile is a basic requirement now a days.I am not that doubtful about my wife,if I have.

    There were many Pzr frauds done in 80″s & 90’s,but now it’s different.It’s really sad to know,that women who reverted to Islam,had such a bad encounter with Islam.

    Zahra,did you tell him,you have 2 children from previous marriage? Is he going to accept them?23 yrs of age a person is not ready to accept his/her own,let alone someone’s else.Severe the contact run like your feet is on fire the other way!

  • Sabrina

    August 28, 2015
    Where ever you meet someone if it net through family or whatever their nationality, its important to be careful and check them out properly. My friend was arranging a marriage with someone she meet on a dating site. He came to the UK a few times to meet her and her family. They did the first part of the marriage contract at the masjid. Last August she visited him in US, they were having problems but they still decided to marry he flew to UK December to get married when she decided it wasn’t the right thing to do he killed her. He strangled her in a hotel room. We will miss her forever, he didn’t need a visa just obsessed by her.
  • Sabrina

    August 28, 2015
    Hi I haven’t been commenting on here for a long time because I didn’t know if I was still in a polymous marriage or not. Im married to a Pakistani he is pushtoon he is married to his cousin and have 3 children. October I’m going to visit him in Kuwait where he is living to see if we can fix things.
    I been reading the comments this morning for those ladies chatting to Pakistani men on the net and they are telling you they love you or saying how you are already their future wife they are deceiving you. Gail has it spot on they wouldn’t let their sisters talk to men on the net like that its counted as zina. Also they don’t think of love like we do, they don’t usually do love marriage. The mother arranges the girl he is too marry.
    My husband had been married to his cousin for 11 years before we meet, this week we been married for three years. Before we married he asked permission off his sister (because his mother had already passed). The reasons he asked to marry me 1. I’m British, first night I said to him you want a visa and made fun of him. 2. What he considers my status, when we meet I was then on Board of Directors of a Charity and teacher. 3. I know how they consider women and there was no way I was going to keep chatting to him casually on the net. So he went to his sister then asked me to marry him, first of I declined. My husband was very honest about being married to his cousin and having children. We both accept each other and are at peace with each other. I would never expect him to divorce her the stigma would be terrible for her. The children call me UK mama. If you are chatting to one on the net who tells you he is not married or there is no arranged marriage waiting for him he is lying. Gail understands them perfectly, its about benefiting the family as a whole. If it means allowing one of the sons to marry to get to the west for a better future that’s fine. But for accepting you as a equal never, Pakistani women are always too worried about property and money. Pakistani mothers also can see Pakistani daughter in laws as a threat when it comes to the sons income.
    What my husband tells me any woman talking like that on the net or who even has a phone they see as a low. My co-wife is not even allowed a phone, this when we start auguring when I know he has since spoken to Pakistani women on the net. I feel like I am sticking up for my co-wife and myself. Listen to Gail and Umair, If you asking if he is marrying you for a green card yes most definitely, especially if he met you on the net. If I could turn back time I wouldn’t of married him, but now its all complicated all his family knows, the children even though they are not mine I got attached to. This week he told members of his political party he belongs too, that he has a British wife but he told them he had arranged the marriage via my father hahahah. He be too ashamed to tell them he had approached me without my father and via social media. The fourth reason he asked me was because I did not have no pictures up on the net. Another thing they look down on. Past 18 months I have been working in a womans refuge for ethnic minorities. If I tell any Pakistani lady I married to a Pakistani especially a Pushtoon the look they give is not good. I would go with Umair’s advice and just visit friends don’t rush in to it.
  • Umair

    August 28, 2015
    I have to commend Gail,as she knows Pakistan inside out.

    To the girl who asked the question,you are being used big time for Green Card(US Citizenship),i am telling you as a Pakistani.He is going to marry you,use you & divorce you after getting the nationality.I know how will that feel,the area & family matters a lot from Pakistan(Which Area(City/Village) is he from…But there are every type of people in every country,like Kardashians in U.S.

    Pakistani’s marries Virgin girls or cousins as rightly said by Gail,Divorcee women with baggage(2-3 children) is never liked & frowned upon,considering this is his 1st marriage & don’t have his own baggage(2-3 children) from his marriage.He will never be the step father as a real father or mother no matter what.

    Gail,is absolutely right,he is 23 yrs old you are 30 yrs,he can’t be a ready made children responsibility,for that you need mature men/middle age in their 40’s -50’s to understand & have children.Gail is also absolutely right,that Shia Syed don’t marry outside their families(cousins),even in other sects like Shia/Sunni marriages.Every sign is infront of you & you are just blind.Just stop communicating,you don’t have any commitments.Cancel you flights to PK or go visit your friends in Pakistan as mentioned by you.Women don’t go alone in these countries.Gail is spot on,i was reading her comments,is amazed as she has spent time in Pakistan!

  • Gail

    August 28, 2015
    Zahra Gujar,

    I prayed to G.D last night about u because I am deeply concerned u being a single mother fixing to take off to Pakistan.I was so much hoping G.D would speak to u and Thanks to G>D he did.I am very relieved.Listen that boy did nothing of the sort to cut his engagement off.He is 23 he is really young.As much as I know most men don’t marry until after 25 my husband married first time at 29 and his younger brother was 30 his older brother was over 25 I know.I will not say it is the rule but I think normally the boys r a little older so that is another clue.If I had to guess he is engaged to marry a cousin so the plan was to hook u and get immigration then divorce u.Pakistani woman as a whole don’t accept polygamy so I don’t see how he would have kept u because for sure he would marry back in Pakistan after immigration.
    Don’t feel bad or stuck I think u r amazing and G.D will send u someone.I just can not for the life of me see a 23 yr old pakistani boy going to take on the responsibility of stepdad.Nope can’t see it because those boys to not grow up until their dad dies and they r forced to grow up otherwise they will be 40 and acting like a kid

  • anabellah

    August 27, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    It’s funny; I was just writing to you when Ummof4 was. I agree with her 100%. I know how lonely it must get to be a single mom, and not have a husband as a companion. I understand how difficult it is when it comes to finding a man who will love you and your children. As Ummof4 said, men in the United States marry women with children. My stepdad married my mom and she had four. My husband was married and divorced, before he met and married me. The woman whom he was married to was ten years older that he was and had three very young children. Men in the U.S marry women with children all the time.

    I am very much concerned about you, as you know you have intended yourself to a man from a culture in which many of those men are known to use women for the benefit of themselves and their families. They only want a Green Card/Immigration status/a ticket to the U.S, Canada or anywhere out of Pakistan. They are known to feed off women and take them for all they’ve got.

    If you want to put yourself out there, and take a chance of getting burned, no one can stop you. We could only warn you. If I were you, I wouldn’t care how much money I lost on getting a Visa or how angry that man will be when you break the engagement. I suggest you not marry that man and thank Allah much that he saved you from the immense pain and heartache you possibly was about to experience. You better think again, if you think the man is head over heels in love with you for you and your children. Be wise. Be smart. Don’t think with your heart.

  • ummof4

    August 27, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum Zahra,

    Based on what I have learned in my 62 years of living, I would advise you not to go to Pakistan and not to marry him. You can probably find a nice Muslim man to marry that is closer to home. If you are in the United States, many Muslim men do marry women with children.

    May Allah protcect us all from the evil of jinns and mankind.

  • Gail

    August 27, 2015
    Ana,

    It also makes me very angry as well.I don’t even know if love is blind as much as simply uneducated.I truly don’t know but what I do know is that most women have a deep desire to be loved and happily married.The sad part is they are not real particular when it comes to who the man is or his religion or culture because they think that the man loves them and this is a flawed concept.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 27, 2015
    Asalam o Aleikum dear all.
    Last night i prayed to my Allah with tears in my eyes asking for a sight and here is the response Alhamdulillah ! He never leaves me alone when my life is about to change badly in next days.
    I am latina 29 years old single mom of 2 and indeed you here sisters are telling the tru story of my life. Im shocked all u say is just the sad truth. He is syed from a village on Gujrat hes 23 hes single no kids yet and i had been talking with the family in my possibilities cos they speaks punjabi and i just spanish and english. Last week that guy phoned my mom and ask my hand from her ! My whole family days i m crazy for that relationship without meet each other in person. He sent me sponsor letter thats why i got visa easily for going to pak and i was thinking all of this was a beautiful true love story (here in my country men never pick and risk for woman with kids) :( i saved my money for the trip in secret from my people cos nobody willing i go there but im being much blind snd brainless i think.. the punjabi boy said to me he already broke his engagement for me and he swerve for ALLAH he really loves me and want to spend whole life with me. I am a blonde woman white skin good look im thin and very lovable with him i am learned and prepared with own house cars and i pay my all bills by myself with hard work Alhamdulillah and I feel in need to help him in economic way cos my almighty will reward me as soon. I also have 2 friends in islamabad who told me dont come alone here please ! Is not a good place for single woman but they dont tell me the reason despite they coulf figure it out the reality. I found that place and yours cos is my ALLAHS wish im here with big open eyes confused and dissapointed with my heart totally broken realizing all that mess where i had beed catched. I have no words for that. I spend money in my Visa and how i will say to him no now i m not coming to pakistan he will anger on me and doing abuse i will not see him again ….Allah Hafiz
  • anabellah

    August 27, 2015

    Gail,

    Wow, you reminded me of what my wali said today. I sometimes tell him stories of what’s happening to people on the blog. Today he stopped me cold, and said he don’t want to hear it. He said he hate when people take advantage of the weak. He was disgusted. Here men are supposed to take care of women, but they use and abuse them. Zahra does have all the warning signs right in front of her, but she doesn’t want to see them. Love is blind. SMH

  • Gail

    August 27, 2015
    Ana,

    Do u see what I mean these Pakistani men paint the woman a picture of a life of paradise.Did u notice Zahra Gujar said she will go there marry him and come back to work to apply his immigration.He is smart because he knows he has to have a sponsor so he has all planning and has told her straight but she is stuck in the fantasy even begging for a sign when all the signs are right in front of her.
    I am sure she is a wonderful person and this is what makes it all the more disgusting because the women love the men and they just can’t believe that a man they truly love would use them.
    There is a real need to educate woman about facts verses feelings.I am a firm believer that u can’t always go by your feelings u need to see the facts and see if your feelings line up with the facts if they don’t line up “Houston we a problem”.
    I admit I am one of the lucky ones that my husband did not divorce me but u of all people know what I have been through trying to live with a man that used me for immigration and then sprung polygamy on me and all the while trying to raise my kids.
    It is killing me to see so many women dying for love only to get taken advantage of.They have no idea what trap awaits them.
    I want to be clear I have no problem with a man wanting to leave his country because he wants to immigrate for a better future.What I do have a problem with is these men preying on innocent women.

  • anabellah

    August 26, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    All I can think about your situation is to say wow and I wouldn’t want to be ya. Your situation to me screams GREEN CARD and a nightmare waiting to happen. I feel ya, but can’t reach ya. My heart cries for you. I think you should run from that man like your shoes are on fire and don’t look back.

  • Gail

    August 26, 2015
    Zahra Gujar,

    I should not say that all Pakistani men marry cousins they do marry outside their families but as a rule they mainly marry cousins.U can ask him as well,More than likely his mom and dad r cousins or other brother and sisters have married cousins.Also in case u don’t know if he is Syed they don’t allow their woman to marry anyone but a Syed which is very strange and it is very very strict.My husband is Syed Shia and u better think because when u bring kids into the mix it is just another animal entire.Also in my opinion they don’t make good stepfathers.Thats from my own experience and hearing other women’s stories on the blog.So that is something to consider as well.

  • Gail

    August 26, 2015
    Zahra Gujar,

    Hi I am Gail and I read your post and I can totally tell from what u have spoken that this is a scam u r in.Do I know it 100% well no I am not G.D/Allah but I will tell u this if he told u straight he wants to support his poor family that is the truth and u r the means(him telling u sweet nothing to rope u in)U r pig fixing to get slaughtered to be frank.
    Look u r a foreign woman with kids and Pakistani men only marry virgins and cousins marriages.Your not a virgin nor a cousin so then since u r not those 2 things then what r u to him except a greencard understand? These people never marry for love they say love will come after marriage sooo if he is telling u all these sweet nothings that is a sign within a sign.
    U r fixing to screw up royally in my opinion.I will also warn u Please Please Please if u do this and fly there then register with the American Embassy in Islamabad.U make copies of your passport and give to your mother or someone that u can trust and a recent picture of u,Your physical address and USA Embassy Islamabad contact info and u make a plan that if u do not call them every Monday then they r to contact Embassy.Will it help u I don’t know because Embassy there is a complete joke and for the most part is run by Pakistani people in the front.It is very hard to talk to an American assuming u r American is u r not then u need to give your countries embassy contact info understand.
    U need to understand that it is possible that u can be sold into prostitution when u get there or he will take your passport and u will be stuck with no means to get back to USA.I kid u not that country is nothing what u r thinking.
    I imagine he wants Immigration because 90% if not more young men are fishing on the internet for foreign wives to immigrate and get there family out of Pakistan.]
    Also I want to tell u if u do decide to this u flat tell him u want written on the Nika a huge amount if he divorces you.Put something huge like 200,000 USA dollars but go online and figure out in rupees so that he tries to divorce u and u want the money at the time of divorce.
    I don’t know if u would ever get it but do that and see what he says.Also make darn certain u make that a huge number of at least 200,000 USA dollars.
    I would not chance what u r fixing to do since u have children to be frank.Also keep in mind u r really not in love with this man.U have not met him in person and no amount of internet time or phone will prepare u for what u r fixing to face.
    It is game for them to get out of Pakistan and nothing more.I am sorry u got caught in this mess.U say he is paying for everything yes of course this is part of the game as well.They will pay for everything is they can afford because they know marriage is a sure way to walk out so it is but a small investment.U r a cow being led to the slaughter my dear.
    Also does he have a wife and kids of his own what is his age??? Please choose wisely you and your kids lives depend on it.
    I was lucky and my husband has stuck with me but my life has not been a picnic and I have had to go through hell and back.Please stay with the blog!

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 26, 2015
    Asalam l Aleikum @Gail @anabellah !
    Oh my God Oh my God ! Didnt come here since my first post in June 9th. But im shocked for which you both kindly wrote to me . Mainly Gail you are all right ! Ses you are telling my own story and i am much scare than before.
    Embassy gave me the Visa . I have all ready for trip to paistan meet my guy and marry him but still having fears doubts and nightmares thinking all of this is a big lie. I really love him so much he has lot of future plans with me and my 2 kids here but hes trying to move to canada and settle there with us. He said it openly : i wanna help my poor family my dream is being with you and travel everywhere with you and my kids (mine) .
    He writes me everyday all the time. He cares me and loves me on whatsapp all the time i also talk with both of his brothers and cousins all seems perfect like a dream. He planning my wed suit. He nevr asking me for money . Im independant and solvent. He will pay my tickets to Pakistan .. oh My Allah give me a sign it is true please lead me !! Im going to leave my parents my job my country for him. His plan is i go we marry i come back and apply for bring him here. Im blinded im so innocent please brothers help me . How a sweet punjabi (sample man) can do bad with a good woman who loves him and respect him..:( by the way i accept Islam from other person 2 years ago before i meet him my Shia guy but i made shahadat as Sunni… please brother and sister im about to fly in one month. Fee Imaan Allah.
  • anabellah

    August 26, 2015

    @Lyn, Hello

    Your question is too general. Anyone can be rude, regardless of their race, nationality, gender, color or creed. Are you asking if a whole nation of Pakistani men are rude? I’d have to say no.

    Maybe you could be more specific in your question. As it is it is too broad.

  • Lyn

    August 26, 2015
    Is tHe pakistani mens are rude?
  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @American Girl,

    It was nice to meet you and to chat with you. I’m hopeful you have learned a lot, especially from the ladies here who are very familiar with the culture and the men in Pakistan. I don’t think there is a whole lot more that anyone here can add.

    I know you have deep feelings for the man, and want to believe that you are the exception to the rule. Time will tell. We are here if you’d like to chat some more. You will have to live life and see where it takes you and if it is with him. :-)

  • Gail

    August 19, 2015
    American Girl,

    U r a meal ticket for him so of course he will try to keep u on the hook.Listen they never talk about immigration up front they wait until wayyyy later on or after marriage they never say upfront because they know u would connect the DOTS.They have to get the love hook in bait and set the trap very well and know that they have your undying loyalty then they will very sweetly get around to all that Jazz.
    I hope we helped u to at least become aware of Pakistani culture and cousin marriages and fake court divorces but staying married through religion etc….

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    You guys rock!!!! But please read my comment to @ana at 2am. Lol I’m trying to see what type of person I allowed myself to get involved with. I say things to him to end the relationship he doesn’t want to bcuz he says he’s not lying n will show me whatever to prove it. I don’t know anything about Islam or Pakistan so that’s dust in the wind. Anyways I really do thank you guys for allllllll the feedback. It was very helpful n u are amazing!!!!!!
  • Gail

    August 19, 2015
    Spirited,

    I agree with Ummoff4 don’t stay away so long and give us a report when u can of what is going on in your life these days.I think of u often also and wonder how your getting along.

  • ummof4

    August 19, 2015
    Assalaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Spirited, it’s so good to hear from you. I think of you often and make du’ah for you. I pray your life is calm, peaceful and you are able to worship Allah in the way that He is to be worshipped. You gave some good information to American Girl.
    Try not to stay away from your sisters too long(Even though I feel more like an auntie to you). We missed you.

  • Gail

    August 19, 2015
    American Girl,

    Again I will say he is lying to u.I don’t know any Pakistani woman that would not want kids that is absurd.That is a new one on me.Listen u r just not getting it and I don’t know how to make u understand.Pakistan is a country where anything goes and there is no real law and order it is a rogue country.He can show u a paper that says he is divorced it can be real or fake.In my case my husbands divorce papers were real but that did not matter because he kept her Islamically as his wife.This means that they r divorced legally but not religiously so they r still married without the piece of paper so that frees the husband up to marry a foreign woman in these cases.
    It happens there because it happen to me and I lived 8 years before my husband came clean and admitted the truth to me.
    Now he is flat out lying to u about his wife not wanting kids.U r not getting it in Pakistan to a woman the worst thing that could happen is getting a divorced.Everyone blames the woman even if it is not her fault they will tell her she did not know how to keep her husband.The reason why a woman sees divorce so hard and will do ANYTHING most of the time to not divorce is because her and her family know it will be very hard if not impossible to find a husband never mind a good husband since she is divorced and not a virgin anymore.
    U can’t sit on the computer and figure out if he lying to u or not u can only listen to what I and the others are telling u like Ana,Spirited,Ummoff and Mai2 might chime in at some point.Do u think we r lying or that u r the exception to the rule? Everytime u talk to him and he sucks u in a little more u better understand u r digging a hole a little deeper for yourself everytime u chat with him.I really just don’t know what else to say on this topic other than u really r playing with fire and u will get burned I have no doubt in it.
    Some people like playing with fire and not listening to other and having to learn the hard way and only u know if u r that type of person.
    Also lets say against all odds he is telling the truth but for sure my heart says he is lying because I don’t know a muslim Pakistani woman that does not want kids and tell her husband this after marriage that is retarded and a clear sign he is not only a liar but a horrible liar at that.lol
    As far as him not being on the internet that much chances they did not pay the internet bill or he did not have money for cards or he was gone to visit family in the village.It will be one of those reasons.
    Spirited explained to u very well she has a great way with words and getting her point across.
    As far as the Pakistani Guy here in the blog said to ask neighbors etc and knowone in Pakistan marries without investigation that is true but when u r a foreigner that would do no good because u don’t know anyone and people there lie and that would not be an avenue u could pursue with any real expectation of finding anything out.
    Soooo that leave u with either believing what we r saying and walk away or u trusting on him and taking the plunge it really is your life your choice and if u choose to not listen and pursue him that is fine because that just means u will be back in a few years joining us trying to deal with Polygamy and that my dear is a fact u can take to the bank.lol
    Polygamy is not a bad thing in fact most of us really support polygamy but if u are a 100% u do not and would not every consider polygamy then u r barking up the wrong tree with this man because again lets say he is not lying for sake of argument his mother or parents will insist he remarry another cousin at some point down the road so just know that u r not dealing between u and your husband alone u would be marrying his entire family and his MOM which he believes “Heaven is under his mothers feet or some nonsense”Which means if he goes against his mom he thinks he will go to hell or not go to heaven.These people are all about their families because they r raised that way so again I say choose wisely otherwise u can take a seat next to me here on the blog in a few years and try to stop other woman from making the same mistake.It’s your choice.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    I meant they’d be scared to death, if they Truly believed there is a Hell Fire. The Quran is thorough and complete in the description of the Hell Fire. It makes me cry when I read about it. It’s chilling and shocking.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You’re ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Some men who call themselves Muslims are going to do exactly what they want to do. They don’t give a flip about Islam. They will marry whomever suits their fancy, whomever they are attracted to. They don’t care if the woman is Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddish, Wiccan or what. We know they find whatever Imam or scholar is out who will say they may marry any woman they want. Islam let them satisfy their wants and desires with woman as long as it’s a woman. It’s all they need to hear.

    I couldn’t believe when I was ready to marry. I met this Egyptian guy. He wanted to do everything the non-Muslim way. He actually came out his face and said it to me. Here I am trying to do everything according to Islam. It took me talking to him one time to know he was not the husband for me. He’s up there asking me to go dancing and have drinks. I find that many of the men who call themselves Muslims want to get away from Islam. They don’t want Islam. They want to live this worldly life. It’s all that matters to them. They really don’t care about Jannah/Paradise. They don’t believe in it in their hearts. If they believed, they’d be scared sh!tless.

  • Spirited

    August 19, 2015
    Salaam gang,

    @Ana, lol no problemo. Oh yep, you’re right about the more specific definition of who Muslim men are allowed to marry, but realistically, we all know most men don’t give a flying flip and do what they want. Its their problem in the end anyhow.

    @American Girl, it’s cool you’re getting all the info you need. . He might be waiting on his finalization in courts, which is more like a gesture to be in line with the way western countries do things, but Islamically if he’s said he divorces her, its done. Pakistan is a religious country, so that is usually enough for him to be able to marry again. The waiting period is also only 3 months unless the wife is pregnant (which I assume she is not). It is a good idea to have the court paperwork anyways, just in case.

    I really don’t find much weight in the documents he might send you or his claims of love. He could be telling the same to another woman, or many other women. Like I said, we’ve all seen it before. The documents, also, could be forged, gotten through bribing corrupt officials or just plain fake. I actually know a woman who this happened to about 3 years ago. Her husband wanted out of the country and had been secretly having an affair on skype with an American woman. He got all the divorce paperwork and whatever else he needed and married the American woman without ever saying a word to his wife (who he was still actually married to because he never really divorced her). When she eventually found out, she left him and took their daughter, got a divorce herself. I met up with her on a recent trip to Pakistan and she is re-married now. Her ex-husband’s attempt at scamming another woman failed also and he is still in Pakistan as well.

    No one can say what this person you’re speaking to is truly like. He might really not be fishing for a way to get to the US. He might actually be happy in the UK although if a Pakistani man has the option between the UK or the US, he will prefer the US because our standard of life is better here. Plus, they consider the UK as becoming too familiar (so very many Pakistanis and Indians have moved there). I have family in London, England and parts of Germany and Spain. Its funny to hear them tell it.

    In any case, you will do what you have to do. He might be ok. He might not be. All I know is, if it was someone important to me, I would never let them get into a mess with a Pakistani from Karachi, with all this unnecessary stuff to boot, that’s for darn sure. Also, that saying, “follow your gut instinct” is usually a good idea, so long as you’re using your brain and not just falling for the sweet talk. You have doubts, so who knows, maybe you’d be better off with someone else. I can’t say. Up to you

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    @spirited

    Thx so much. He was living in Dubai not anymore. Read my previous post on the reason why. Ok so he contacted me around 2am. And said he was indeed waiting on his divorce to be final. He went on about how it in Islam there is a waiting period etc…. He said its bn some 6 months now. He also said they separated 3 months after marriage because she doesn’t want kids and they had a big fight. I haven’t asked about the cousin wife thing. I’m trying to figure out a way to ask n not sound like I’m disgusted. So maybe he will be honest. He said once his case is over he will email me all proof documents etc. he’s still expressing his love for me n said “even if u don’t believe me I love u n want u in my life” hmmm what u u think of all that spirited

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    One ayah alone; although there are NUMEROUS ones in the Holy Quran lets us know Muslim are to marry only Muslims.

    Allah says:

    “Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.” Holy Quran: Surah 2, ayah 221

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Hello Everyone,

    I re-read my post about Muslims marrying non-Muslims. I changed the title. I made some slight revisions to make it read better, as well. Sometimes I read my post/threads later and ask myself if I even proofed them before hitting “publish”

    http://www.polygamy411.com/muslim-men-marry-non-muslim/

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @Spirited, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I’m so happy you popped in to chat with us. It’s so weird; when I mentioned to “American Girl” about the people who would know about Pakistani culture, I forgot you are Pakistani. How crazy is that I just remembered that coco is as well.

    Thank you very much for speaking to “American Girl” about the culture. It was very nice of you.

    I need to make one major correction, you said that Muslim men are permitted to marry any woman as long as she raises the children Muslim. A lot of Imams and scholars are feeding people that erroneous information.

    Allah only permits a Muslim, whether the Muslim is male or female, to marry a Muslim. Throughout the entire Quran, Allah lets us know that a Muslim shouldn’t be intimate with, take heed to, marry or have children by non-Muslims. I wrote a post on it, but it doesn’t cover a fraction of all the ayat (verses) in the Quran that lets us know it. Some of the ayat directly pertain to marriage with them and other pertains to dealing with non-Muslims in general, which lets a Muslim know marriage to them is unacceptable.

    The link to my post is: http://www.polygamy411.com/muslim-men-marry-non-muslim/

    Allah doesn’t tell Muslim they could marry the very people who reject him and turn away from Him – the very people He will send to the Hell Fire. He says the non-Muslims would lead a Muslim astray. He did not say “may”, “possibly will” or anything like it. He says “WILL”. A Muslim is going to follow the non-Muslim’s lead and we’ve seen it here with some of the non-Muslim females who are married to Muslim males. The “Muslim” male follows the non-Muslim woman’s way and raise their children to be non-Muslims.

    I think the scholars and Imams who says it is allowed for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women are just looking out for the desires and wishes of men who want to be able to marry any woman whom they want.

    A believing man would never dream of marrying a non-Muslim who doesn’t serve Allah and one who commits shirk (setting up partners with Allah, for instance saying Jesus is Allah’s son) or who doesn’t believe in Allah at all, or loose women who have sex with men other than their husbands while married, etc.

  • Spirited

    August 19, 2015
    Salaam everyone!

    Got a chance to pop in, and I noticed something American Girl mentioned hasn’t been addressed, so I thought I’d try my hand at it.

    @American Girl, hello! You said a few times that this guy told you he couldn’t engage in polygamy without certain “conditions.” He’s probably referring to Pakistani Law that requires a wife’s written consent to have more than 1 wife (I think the penalty for not having consent is just a monetary fine? I’m not sure about this part). HOWEVER, that’s pretty much pointless. 99% of the actual laws in Pakistan are BS because no one follows them. All you have to do is bribe the official you’re dealing with and no problems. (its not even a big bribe, a few hundred dollars worth is enough most of the time). Besides that, the guy can forge his wife’s signature. Or, he can go to a different district and get a different Imam (religious leader in charge of marriages) to officiate his 2nd, 3rd or 4th marriage without anyone finding out. And of course, if he marries outside Pakistan, no one would ever even know.

    Essentially, he’s just feeding you a bunch of aged BS. You also seem to be insistent that he’s divorcing his wife. Unless you’re in the court or know the wife and can confirm – again – he’s just feeding you BS. Pakistani men talk A LOT about how they thirst for [western, non-muslim] love, and “oh poor me, I’m so lonely, boo hoo” “I was forced into it, I swear, I don’t love her” We’ve all heard this before.

    Also, and this is straight from people LIVING IN PAKISTAN, be very careful of people from Karachi. Karachi is known as “where the garbage of Pakistan comes out of” (and that’s from people living IN the country, even people who have lived in the city).

    Another thing I wanted to mention, essentially he CAN marry you. It doesn’t matter in Islam if the woman is a different religion as long as the man is Muslim because the man is supposed to make sure his children by her are raised Muslim (though in practice that hardly ever happens). It’s usually the kind of men who aren’t very religious in the first place who marry non-muslims anyway, so its doubtful God or religion matters to them at all. They’re all about “me, me, me” (However, for your own information — it IS forbidden for a Muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man). Religion most certainly isn’t on his mind, considering he’s basically having an (emotional) affair already. This is a point of concern for any Muslim who is a religious person, and not at all an attack on you :). Being an online lover may be all well and good as far as you’re concerned, but its preposterous as far as any decent Muslim is concerned.

    And lastly, what struck me as odd is that if he’s been living in Dubai, why is he spouting off about hating Pakistan and wanting to go to more western countries? Dubai is extremely modern. Beautiful place to live, good infrastructure, very “western” feel, some really cool cutting edge stuff there too and plenty of money being made. Pakistan, yes, it’s pretty bad there. Multiple power outages every day (because aid money being sent to improve things goes directly into the black hole that is politicians’ pockets), very low wages (some people make the equivalent of $5/month), liars and cheaters as far as the eye can see (some good folk in there, but hard to find), poor general infrastructure, garbage anywhere and everywhere (no structured garbage disposal system), etc.

    I feel, like the other women said, he thinks he’s got you on the hook and now he’s trying to slowly reel you in without you noticing until you’re in his catch bucket ready to be cut open. The absolute best course of action would be to cut and run, in my opinion.

    I also wanted to make a counter-point to what try-hard pakistani men defender Umair said — just “checking up” on a pakistani man does jack-squat. As mentioned, Pakistan is full of liars and cheaters. To wit, the people in a guy’s community or those who he knows that a person may check with and ask questions of could be
    1. paid off to tell only good things
    2. hate the person being asked about and will lie

    My parents are Pakistani, but obviously from a different generation. They thought Pakistani muslims were among the best people on earth (and back in the old days, they most likely were). It should be very telling when they remember times that shopkeepers who kept beards (a sign of a pious muslim) were the ones to trust, who wouldn’t scam you — but nowadays, those are the very shopkeepers to avoid like the plague because if you deal with them, you and your wallet will be in for a ride.

    Of course the disclaimer exists that there are still (veeeeery few) good Pakistanis out there, hiding amongst all the trash. Anywho, my two cents on the matter. We just give out information based on experience. What anyone does with it is up to them.

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    @ana that’s my plan n I will update here
  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @ American Girl,

    I apologize. I just realized I was calling you the wrong name. It wasn’t intentional. I understand your last post. I’m going to try to get some sleep now. It’s almost 3:00 a.m. It was nice chatting with you. Chat with you later God willing. :-)

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    @ana

    After the wife stuff I have lost interest in him. But I still want to know something’s. It’s not a waste to me bcuz I really did like him but now I’m curious as to what kind of person I allowed myself to get involved with. Seeing I knew absolutely NOTHING about the culture n etc before coming to this blog. We never discussed their culture. The only thing I mentioned was multiple wives n he said that’s not just something they can do. N I left it at that.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    You are the only one who will find out if he is lying or not, so let us know what you find out, if you feel so inclined.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    It seems a total waste of time to me, if you have no other interest in finding out if he’s lying or not other than you just want to know, if he’ s the same as others. If you have no romantic interest in him and are not working on a research paper, it makes absolutely no sense.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    So you are putting all this time, trouble, effort and energy in the matter just to see if he fits the profile?

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    @ana

    Actually I was trying to compare him to the Pakistani men u describe here. Polygamy marriage to cousins etc…. Obviously his divorce was going on b4 we started conversing. If he get a divorce because he’s unhappy that’s his business. But I’m not hoping anything.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    It’s not a matter of being right. Be honest with yourself. Based on everything you have said, it sounds that you want him to divorce his wife cuz you want him. You want him all to yourself so he and you could be in a romantic relationship – just the two of you. It’s why you’re hanging around waiting for him and hoping he’s not lying to you. Get out of your imagination.

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    Wow…. Ok I guess u don’t get it so I’ll just leave it at that. I’m not going to continue to try to explain anything. So @ana u right I’m sure u like to be told that!!!!!!
  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    People lie all the time, all day and night. What difference does it make whether he is lying or not?

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    I doubt you could help anyone try to live a good, wholesome life of peace and contentment by saying you’re involved (talking) with a married man who you don’t intend to marry, but hope he is not lying and he will divorce his wife so you could get with him for some reason – what’s the reason?

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    And again @ana I’m trying to figure out how I can get the truth out of him to help the next person. I thought maybe sharing it here might help me distinguish between the truth n a lie n what kind of proof he might could show me etc… To help the next person.
  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    Since I’m being so judged here and hasn’t done anything but have a conversation with his man I’ll leave this blog bcuz obviously I’m being misunderstood. I was going to update everything here for the next person who experience something similar can see what I found out. He can’t toy with me. It’s not that serious. I just want to know n to possibly help someone else…. Gosh
  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    Okay, American Woman, carry on. I think you have been dismissing most of what Gail has explained to you. I have no idea why you’d want to pursue the guy. Even cattle heed warning.

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    @ana

    Didn’t I say he’s mentioned divorce m court? And before then he told me he wasn’t married or seperated or whatever. All this wife causing a problem from him crap came up in the last week n I haven’t talked to him. He may not ever contact me. I’ll never be someone’s whore!!!! Don’t get it twisted. He’s said to me like he doesn’t want her etc….

    The reason I stressed the marriage thing is because I see everyone saying they use us to get citizenship etc… But he’s never mentioned USA to me. Ever. All he says is he wants out of that country so he can see me n he’s trying hard to get visas elsewhere. So the trying to marry for citizenship part in my opinion didn’t apply. Again I haven’t heard fr him I’m almost a week when we used to talk everyday. So I’m not sure as of yet what the prob his wife has made. I’m thinking maybe she found out he was talking to me or something. But he said give him sometime to fix his life. @ana I just trying to harmlessly figure something’s out before anything transpired between us.

    @umm he’s in Karachi

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    American Woman,

    I think you are missing the point. How would you like it if you were married and your husband was with some other woman expressing his love to her? I doubt you’d like it or would tolerate it. So, why do you want to mess with that woman’s husband, if you have no intention to marry him? It’s why American & European women get labeled as cheap, easy hoes (whore). As Gail stated I think the man is toying with you. Why should you care whether he is lying to you or not? What difference does it make? You don’t have any interest in marrying him, so you say. Do you want to be his whore, if he is not lying?

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015
    @ana

    The adultery n fornication comments are irritating me. Now that I’m skeptical of him lying NO I WILL NOT MARRY HIM. As I mentioned we have deep conversations about love and yes I was somewhat falling for him. That’s why I’m here to try n figure out how I can tell if he’s lying (if that’s even possible) about getting a divorce. Like I said fornication or adultery cannot be committed over internet.
    As I mentioned I’m not Muslim so I don’t think marriage would be the case but u never know. Also even if I was to continue to converse with him I still want to know if he’s a liar. If so I’ll end it. That’s all. So please understand I’m just trying to figure out if he’s lying first n foremost. From there I’ll update everyone about the relationship. Basically I’m not trying to commit anything just want answers (if possible) and then go from there.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @Umair,

    Sorry it took so long for your comment to get approved. It went into Spam because you included an email address in it. Many times I just delete spam without checking it. Alhumdulliah, I checked this time and found your post. The email address was removed because it is a blog policy that we don’t exchange emails here.

    I’m going to take a break. Insha Allah, I’ll be back to read your comment. Thank you much for commenting! I appreciate it very much.

  • Umair

    August 18, 2015
    @ American Girl,i can translate the Urdu Docs.Send me on my email.

    One thing i have noticed that women who are complaining at equal fault in this fiasco.In Pakistan do you think someone will give his or her sister or daughter without checks,that’s the job of the brothers & father(If he is NOT that old) to get the checks where in a household they are having a relation.But there advantage is that they are familiar with Pakistan’s culture,even still FRAUD happens.

    Ask from the guy or girls neighbourhood or the people you know,what sort of the a human being s/he is?Which company s/he sits & stands.This is a pre requisite from having a relationship in any family.No one is that naive to DON’T do these basic checks and complain afterwards.Yes,Pakistani men marry for family,it’s a big part of their marriage,yes someone has to look for the parents in the old age if they are good enough,no old houses here.This is he duty of daughter in law as the daughters go to their houses if they get married.I will whole heartedly agree with Gail,as she has gone through it but it might be they are worse of the worse people she might have found in Pakistan.Where is the guy from,i mean city?Lahore,Karachi,Islamabad?

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    Okay, I’m caught up now on reading all the posts. Alhumdulliah. lst off, I’d like to openly apologize to Ummof4

    @Ummof4, I asked that you accept my apology for taking a position without having read the posts you commented on to “American Woman”. I see where you were coming from. I respect your position.

    @American woman

    You present a slight problem for us here in that you have no intentions of marrying the man whom you’ve been talking about. You are not intended to (engaged to) him. I don’t actually know what you’re doing with him. Do you know? Why are you investigating the man?

    As Ummof4 indicated, the women here are in polygamous marriages, were in polygamous marriages or are thinking about entering a polygamous marriage. You don’t fit in any of those categories.

    There IS good in you being here, and asking questions. The more questions asked, the more we all learn about how SOME Pakistani men are and we learn about the Pakistani culture. Other than it, I have no clue what you are doing wasting your time on some man who you have NO intention of marrying. You know he is a married man. If he is playing around with you and other women, he is committing adultery, which is a SERIOUS SIN. Ummof4 has let you know it and I’m letting you know it as well. I’m sure you don’t rightly care, neither does he. Ummof4 and I as Muslims would be remiss in our duty if we did not mention it to you.

    As I stated, it has been nice having you here because you are asking some very good questions that are generating conversation, that may help other women who are actually interested in polygamy and marriage to a Pakistani man. It may help those women who are already married to Pakistani men.

    There is no reason to ask you to leave. You are welcome to stay here with us. It’s just important that you know what this blog is about, as you continue…

    @Gail, I agree with you that it is important that we are all here for those who get caught up in a web of deception when they mix up with some Pakistani men who are of bad character. If any woman who intends to marry one of these smooth talking gents, it’s good that we could give them the heads up on them. No one can prevent anyone’s fate. We can only put the information out there. Thank you much, Gail, for being a wealth of information. You are very bright, intelligent, warm, but strong woman. I appreciate all the information that you share with me and everyone else here. I have learn a lot from you {{{hugs}}}

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    @gail

    Wow I’m sorry to hear all that. You have bn through a lot I’m so glad u are very knowledgeable about this culture n these men. I’m sure u have saved a lot of heart aches n pain :)

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    @ana

    Lol that made me laugh. No our relationship is not based on him being fine. I tell him he’s fine n he just says he don’t delight in himself so I dnt say it anymore. Our relationship is based off good conversations. He’s very intelligent n talks deeply about love. Never knew someone who acts like they need love n talks about how he’s been hurt etc. even on his fb page I’ve seen past post and mime pics about being hurt n broken. After he told me about court etc… I googled to see If they even had divorces in pak. I read it was common because most of their marriages are arranged and they try to make the marriage work and most of the time it doesn’t. But Gail says differently. So then I googled arranged marriages in pak to get an understanding about that and ran across marrying cousins n that’s how I ended up on your blog. Ultimately I’m trying to see if he’s lying to me. I’ll end the relationship if he is bcuz he has no reason to lie. I haven’t talked to him since he said “my wife made a prob for me, give me some time I’ll fix my life” I don’t know what that means

  • Gail

    August 18, 2015
    American Girl,
    Ana pretty much summed up what I went through and it was a living hell and it is still not over for me as it has just went to chapter 2 this year with my husband springing on me that he wants to marry our 3 youngest children to his brothers 3 children.I just went through Cancer surgery on top of everything else and I have several other health issues I am dealing with and I really relate all of it to me being so stressed out all the time.I can’t seem to get a moments peace in my life.
    As Ana stated I can’t translate for u do to the website policy but I will say this I feel like u r very interested in Pakistani culture and Pakistani men in general.All I can say is if u play with a snake long enough u r going to get bit at some point.
    Also don’t expect him to be the bible or Quran when u ask him questions like the truth is just going to flow like honey from his mouth.He will tell u as much as he wants u to know and he will sugar coat and lie about the rest of it.
    I use to think other cultures were so cool and exciting to learn about until i married into a different culture and got hit up over the head with culture shock like u could never imagine.
    One thing u have to understand about Pakistani culture they kill u with kindness.U will think they r the sweetest most sincere people in all the world and would do anything for u and they will feed your ego because that is how they bait their trap to get u under their thumb.After that it turns from feeding your ego all out manipulation.
  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    @American Girl,

    The two people here who could help you understand the culture the best are Gail and Mari2. As Gail stated, she lived in Pakistan for years. She was in a polygamous marriage with her husband who was married to his cousin. She didn’t know it at first. Her in-laws live with her. She has been through a living Hell, so to say, in the course of all of it. She said her co-wife tried to poison her. There have been many ladies who have come here telling us how they were involved or are involve with Pakistani men who have lied to them, were married to their cousins, and kept it from them. Some have said their husbands went to Pakistan for a routine visit and came back saying their parents made them marry while there. They said they knew nothing about it until they got there. I’ve learned that these men and the cousins are promised to one another sometimes at birth. Gail’s husband wants her to marry their children to the cousin back home is Pakistan.

    My question to you is this. Are you basing your relationship with this man on him being “fine”? So, he’s good looking, big whip. Is it about his appearance and his sweet talk about you’re the only one for him and blah, blah, blah. It’s seems a bit superficial to me. You sound to be quite young. Are you ready to look like an old, weathered hag quick from chasing after this “fine” looking man? Based on what you know may be the circumstances, is it even worth you taking a chance on him? Once you’re married to the person those looks tend not to be as important anymore. You have to dig deeper than it.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    @umm

    Hmmm ok. No I didn’t mean lovers on that way. Online lovers again no way to fornicate. But I understand now why u said that but definitely not. My main concern was polygamy part. I’m trying to figure that out Because I don’t want to be associated with anyone like that or anyone who has married their cousin. I’m waiting to hear from him because I have questions. And again all this info here is important to me. I don’t know anything about their culture. I asked him if they can have multi wives he said it not just something they can do. Implying it has to be certain circumstances then he went on to say he only wants one woman and that’s me. I’m trying to figure out if he’s lying to me about court divorce etc etc n I need you guys help bcuz u know the culture

  • ummof4

    August 18, 2015
    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    American Girl, I did not throw in fornication as you stated, You threw it in when you said you were willing to be the Muslim man’s lover and friend, but not his wife. Fornication and adultery are just the legal terms for having sex without being married. Some people refer to it as being lovers if neither party is married or having an affair if one or both of the parties are married. Of course, you are free to live your life with the choices that you make, as we all are.

    I am not scolding you or trying to make you feel bad. I was just making sure that you knew that this polygamy blog is about polygamous marriage. It’s not just about Islam or being a Muslim. Non-Muslims come to this site all the time seeking advice about marrying Muslim men.

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    American Girl,

    I haven’t read all the comments yet. I’ve fallen behind. But I think ummof4 may have gotten the commentators mixed up. It was the commentator named he is my heart that said she would be willing to be his lover or not married to him. She is a Christian and is not Muslim. There is no compulsion in Islam. The way I see it, the commentator was merely stating what she was willing to do which is part of her story. Ummof4, please correct me if I’m wrong.

    We want writers to tell their story without feeling they will be chastised. We could give advice that is helpful without having a person feel she is being scolded.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    @umm

    I’ve never even met this man n prob never will. How cute of u to throw fornication in. This blog has helped me understand something’s just in case I got emotionally involved which is not the case at this point. I’m comparing our Conversations to the things people are saying on his blog. The part about trying to marry a foreigner for citizenship I don’t think that is the case with him but I’m trying to figure out if he is part of polygamy. But like Gail said there is divorce in Pakistan so it doesn’t mean that he isn’t really going through a divorce so I’m trying to figure it out. So yes at this point I am not trying to marry this man but with us talking on the Internet fornication is not into Play in no Type of way

  • ummof4

    August 18, 2015
    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    American Girl, I just want to remind you that this is a blog about polygamous marriage, not a blog for fornication. If you do not plan on marrying this man, please refrain from telling us that you would be willing to be his lover. We do not advocate sex outside of marriage for anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim.

    May Allah guide us all to the Seeratul Mustaqeem (The Straight Path).

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    @American Girl,

    Sorry, we can’t provide that service (translations) for you here. It’s part of our policy. I can’t recall off the top of my head, if I’ve included it or not officially in the blog rules. Nonetheless, we addressed the issue here before. We ask everyone to communicate only in English here other than to speak common Arabic words or phrases associated with Islam, such As Salaamu Alaikum and Insha Allah. One reason I’m strict about it is because I once had a Tweeter account for the blog that they suspended on me. People took over the blog sending Arabic stuff. I don’t have a clue what they were saying. I hope you understand. There are free translating services online.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    @gail

    If u speak Urdu I need u to translate some stuff for me

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    Plz understand I’m not trying to marry this man. Oh yea he’s only been from Dubai around 9 months he had a gf there. But I saw on a friends page where he said ” I’m at _____ shadi” in January. So obviously when he got sent from Dubai he had an arranged marriage but idk I can’t wait to ask these questions because who gets married so quickly after being gone 10 years n now u don’t want her… Hmmm
  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015
    I believe he’s a cheater and just doesn’t want to tell me. He said he has no children n reason being was that his wife got pregnant n had miscarriage after a couple months n from there she took birth control. I was hmmmm can they take birth control in that country? But anywho he said he hated her from then. Like I stated marriage is not in the equation. I never said I would leave the country with my kids to meet him. That’s absurd!!!! Oh his bro is all over fb as the news man so I’m pretty sure he is the coo of that news channel. He has interviews and everything on There
  • Gail

    August 18, 2015
    Ana,

    I try in my post to keep them as light as I can so I tend to use slang and puns here and there to lighten the post up so people will not think I am coming across rude.I really feel horrible for these woman and I know how it feels to know something just is not right but u can’t put your finger on it or connect the dots.I know for me personally I lived in a dark hole for 5 yrs and it was unbearable.I believe this blog is a light into that deep dark hole for so many woman.I think of us woman blogging here as ropes being cast down to other sisters in the dark hole saying hey u r not alone grab hold and we will pull u out just hang on for dear life and don’t let go.
    I don’t care what a woman’s religion or culture is when she is suffering and has children and can’t function because of he mental instability it cuts me to my very soul because I been there myself.
    I know I am no longer in Polygamy but thats ok if my story can help someone else then I will keep telling it.
    Also I am so thankful u have opened the blog to talk about Pakistani men