Marry a Pakistani Man?

Marry a Pakistani Man

Marry a Pakistani Man? – beware. This is a sizzling hot topic. Many Pakistani men come to the US or the UK in search of a better life. To get the better life, some seek out women in the US or the UK for marriage. I will use the word “foreign” when I speak of the women or wives from the US. and the UK.

Women want to marry a Pakistani man, as he seems kind, sweet, charming, and debonair. She sees him as the man of her dreams. He treats her as a princess. Many of the women don’t know the Pakistani man uses those qualities to trap the foreign women. Many of the men are deceitful. A Foreign woman who marries a Pakistani man could find herself spun in a web of deception.

Women from the US or the UK marry a Pakistani man without realizing the truth

Over the years, while being here at polygamy 411, I’ve learned a lot about this topic from the commentators who are foreign women. They had married Pakistani men. Many of the Pakistani men marry foreign women, but do not tell them that they already have wives. Some have children too that are in Pakistan. More often than not, the Pakistani man married his first cousin in Pakistan. They had an “arranged marriage.” When the already married Pakistani men marry the foreign women, it makes him polygamous.

Often these Pakistani men never take the foreign wives to Pakistan to meet their families, relatives, or friends. Many times, the people in Pakistan that I just mentioned never know of the wife who is in the US or the UK. The foreign wife becomes a “secret wife.”

The foreign women who marry a Pakistani man may one day get a surprise of their lives

The husband may one day say he must go back to Pakistan. He then comes back married to someone else. He more than likely married his first cousin. He says his mother made him do it. He gives the foreign wife excuses as to why he could not defy his mother. Although the reason is cultural, he’ll say it’s Islam. He’s got it twisted. It has nothing to do with Islam.

When the foreign wife learns of the marriage to the other woman, she becomes distraught. It doesn’t matter if it was an arranged marriage or otherwise. She doesn’t know what to do. She has already become emotionally invested. She has made a life with this man. She has a huge problem. It is extremely difficult and painful for her to resolve it.

Why do these Pakistani men do this to foreign women? Many do it to get citizenship/naturalization/immigration status in the US or  the UK. They do it to foreign women from other countries, as well. They want a better life for themselves and their families back home in Pakistan.

Some fall in love with the foreign women whom they married. Others do not. They just get the immigration status that they sought and then divorce the foreign women.

Foreign women who marry a Pakistani man should beware of the lies, deceit and betrayal that may await them

A foreign woman should thoroughly investigate the Pakistani man whom she intends to marry. She should make sure she meets his family, relatives, and friends in Pakistan. She should ask him if he is already married or if his family has arranged a marriage for him to take place in the future.

She should make safe her assets. She, for instance, should keep her funds separate from his, or have a prenuptial agreement. Most importantly, she should act, using intellect and not emotions. These men are suave and very convincing.

I, in no way, assert that every Pakistani man is as I described above. I just want you to know that I have learned there are very many Pakistani men who have done all that I have stated above. We all know nothing is absolute except our Creator. I simply urge all women that if they marry a Pakistani man, beware!

The problem is so serious that the Muslim Minister Baroness Warsi spoke on it. Click link below to read the article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9275179/Some-Pakistani-men-see-white-women-as-fair-game-says-Baroness-Warsi.html

To learn more about the Baroness Warsi visit: http://www.sayeedawarsi.com/about/

marry a pakistani man

marry a Pakistani man

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737 Comments

  • baseema

    February 10, 2016

    Gail, I don’t think you understand. The Pakistani Canadian woman hid her out of wedlock child. She pretended to be a virgin marrying a Pakistani guy who was studying in the UK. She was never divorced until he found out her lies, then he divorced her. But she didn’t care, she never talked to him nor did she want to be with him. My guess is whoever the father of her baby, is the one she is in love with, in Canada. Probably someone NOT Pakistani. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

    And I hear you on the food and running to the store every day. It is so crazy to me too, they keep no food in the house! Only that day’s food. SO weird. I keep at least a month’s worth stocked up too. It would drive me crazy to go to the store every day. But I guess if you want fresh food, you don’t have transportation to carry the food, or room to store it, etc etc…if we lived there, we would probably understand it better. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

  • Omer

    February 10, 2016

    Gail,

    I know the rules in European Countries probably in the middle of the teen age, boy/girl have their rights to do whatever they want. Its the difference in culture. We Muslims are thought to respect their parents in any condition and obey them, well even though in some cases people go against the will of their parents and do love marriage. They don’t need to get permission from the entire family they just whatever they want. Second condition you had a GF and u like her you had a longterm relation with her. You tell your parents just to show them respect in getting opinion from them (not the final decision). In this case what i witnessed you had a successful relationship without any stress or depressions.(Forcing any girl from Pakistan/Europe or any other things seems to me a revenging behavior from a family and seems that they never think you to be the part in the family and not ready to accept someone.

    The second comments about the cloths, food and roti :D are very true, wasting time in getting things on daily basis are common practice in the women, but you will find mostly in uneducated families or villagers. In some families where the women goes to some job, every facility is there in the house , cook , driver servant and laundries etc.This is not the average pakistani person life i must say.

  • anabellah

    February 9, 2016

    KIM,

    I am so very happy for you. You did the right thing by getting rid of him. It doesn’t matter how handsome, charming or smart he is, he is just not worth it. Be grateful that you was given the strength and good sense to walk away. Good for you. Whatever you do, don’t get weak and fall backwards. You have to keep it moving. Stay away from foreign men. Keep it easy. If you read Gail’s most recent posts to Omer, you know cultures don’t blend. Keep it simple. Marriage is difficult enough without adding other variables.http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif

  • anabellah

    February 9, 2016

    Gail,

    I don’t think you were trying to be funny, but your post made me almost die laughing when you described how it is when you visit Pakistan. Oh, my goodness….Tears of joy

    On a serious note, I was just thinking today about how educated and uneducated people just aren’t on the same page. Uneducated people don’t process information the same. It like talking with someone from another planet. It is bizarre to say the least.

  • anabellah

    February 9, 2016

    baseema,

    I’ve heard stories such as it before – about women who pretended to be virgins or were not, but had their hymen sewn up so to appear to be a virgin. It’s unbelievable. It used to be the tradition way back when, in some tribal counties or another that after the wedding night, the husband would come out and show the community a bloody rag of the blood from him having broken in the wife’s hymen. The crap that people go through SMH Wouldn’t you think it would be personal, between the husband and wife and Allah?http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gif

  • KIM

    February 9, 2016

    One more thing, I am a single mom of 1 and a black woman. He’s shown me many friends of his that love black women and have gotten married. I just couldn’t let myself believe it after reading this site. AGAIN…I’m SO grateful fore you all!

  • KIM

    February 9, 2016

    Hello Everyone,

    I just wanted to say again how grateful I am for this site! All of the stories and responses have given me the confidence I need to stay in a relationship that I was thinking was just too good to be true. The man I dates (after meeting online dating website) posed as a Christian man having been in the US for 30yrs of his life. He was divorced from a (Pakistani)lady who remains in NY. He says they met through a mutual friend who knew she was from the home country and community & they married in NY. He wanted desperately to get married even after talking only 2months after meeting. He was VERY persistent and would NOT introduce me to his family…?weird & RED FLAG #1 SO many red flags that I just could not go on. Usually, as women we get a gut feeling that something is not right or doesn’t add up. BUT a lot of the time we override that feeling because he is SO freaking charming and gorgeous. I mean gorgeous eyes, skin, voice, accent, and very manly…oh and super smart!!! I loved this dude, but I loved myself more. The more I held him at bay the more he seemed to not hold his story together. I eventually broke it off with him, but man do I miss him, I almost wanna call him…like really bad. BUT I read every one of these posts and I am thankful that I am strong enough to stay away. !!!WARNING!!! To ALL the ladies who feel like your beautiful Pakistani man you met online is the exception…I’m sorry, HE ISN’T!!!

    All the best to you ladies in your search for true love!

  • Gail

    February 9, 2016

    Omer,

    U make it sound like love can conquer all but that is just not the truth in most cases.When u have different cultures and u go to merge both cultures into one it is not an easy thing to do.
    Most people r naive before marriage and are blind to the fact that it will take alot of work to make a mix marriage work esp when u toss children into the mix.
    Never mind religion issues culture issues are the hardest to deal.Obviously a European women is going to speak her mind and get angry faster because she comes from a culture that allows her to speak her mind and be treated as a real equal and not a servant to her husband and his family.
    For me personally I could never take orders from my mother inlaw because I am educated and she isn’t to be frank.I find her way of thinking very bazaar to be honest and want no part of it.I expect when I am in Pakistan that I should be catered to because it is not my natural environment.I mean really should I be expected to cook for a family of 30 and make Roti from scratch(which I don’t know how to make or have any desire to learn how to make it)? Also why should I wash my own clothes when my inlaws have only a washer and a ringer then have to hang them on a line.It is an all day event that seems crazy to me.They let clothes pile up all week and then wash and I find that gross and nasty to be frank and don’t want any part of that.In USA I wash my clothes daily and I have a brand new washer and dryer and I never have mountains of dirty clothes just laying around.In my home in USA I stock all my food.I always have at least a months worth of food in my home and in Pakistan they go daily for food.Again I don’t get that as I find it a huge waste of time when u have so many people living in the home u have to feed daily.I can go on and on and on but u get the point.Everyone sees me strange and I see them strange from day one.
    I should mention when I am in Pakistan I rarely eat with the family.I either get take out pizza,subway,chicken burgers,red onion,bread and butter or I cook my own American food.I just can’t stomach the watery spicy soupy crap every meal.Also my children and I drink out of paper cups as well simply because they leave soap on their dishes.I am laughing as I say this as it comes across as I am a pampered princes but living an average Pakistani life sucks and is hard and I don’t want any part of it when i am there.

  • Gail

    February 9, 2016

    Omer,

    I am curious u said u did a love marriage.Listen what people think in the west as a love marriage is still very different form the Pakistani point of view of a love marriage.U had to go through your family to marry your wife am I correct?In America we don’t have to get approval from anyone.Yes it is nice if the parents or family like the spouse in USA but it is not mandatory like in Pakistan.Also I give u an example I have 3 sister inlaws that married outside the family to 3 brothers in one family.They all claim they did love marriage but really it was arranged marriage by definition since my mother inlaw arranged the marriages.My sister inlaws didn’t know the men before marrying them.Same with my youngest sister inlaw she married outside the family but again it was arranged and she didn’t know the man before her marriage.I think it will be a very long time before Pakistan families back off and let their children truly pick their own spouses and do love marriages.I want to say clear I am not against arranged marriages because from what I have seen they work out ok for the most part.I am just telling u what I have personally witnessed in Pakistan.Then u get into different religious sects as u know.Sunni and Shia marriages etc… that people frown against for obvious reasons as well.

  • Omer

    February 9, 2016

    Anabella, thank you for a welcome gesture.Appreciate your thoughts about not comparing the religions with the persons or nationalities.

  • Omer

    February 9, 2016

    Gail,

    I agree that the odds 60-70% odds are worst and mostly done by some bad people and the overall image goes to that side. Well let me correct you at one point, i am also from Pakistan. Doing Love marriages in Pakistan are common now excluding the fact in (family and cousins). Couples get’s married (College friends, Univ Friends). I got married last 3 months ago. I had a love marriage with 5 years of relations http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif.

    The other point is that if the girl or women can adjust her in the environment of her’s husband family. If she loves her truly she will do every thing she can, but if she’s short tempered or something like that, both will destroy the relations.

  • Gail

    February 8, 2016

    Baseema,

    Yeah this happens but is not common as far as I know.Normally with the women that our divorced to my knowledge they tell the prospective mans family and any children will remain with the girls parents to be raised or the children go to the father.
    Normally if a Pakistani women has immigrated to a European country her family will be able to remarry her.They just dangle her foreign citizenship in front of the man and his family like a carrot from what I have seen.
    The older Pakistan people refuse to chill out and leave their kids alone to make their own life choices so u end up getting alot of lying and deceit that goes on.

  • baseema

    February 8, 2016

    Hello everyone! I know of one case where the woman tricked the man. She was a Canadian Pakistani immigrant. She married her Pakistani husband to be, who was living in the UK, and studying, at the time. They both traveled to Pakistan, had the wedding, spent a few weeks together, then they returned back-she to Canada and he to UK.

    Well, she had acted like she was a virgin after this wedding, fighting him really bad on the wedding night (according to my friend who was asked for advice) but then they seemed to be getting along well after a week or so, but skip to a few months later, over time, she wasn’t filling out the papers to bring him to Canada.

    Finally, he got the answers out of her. The little 2 year old girl “cousin” with her during the wedding was actually a daughter she had out of wedlock! Her parents forced her into marriage with this guy, and he and his family had no idea about any of it. LOL Talk about shocked!!

    Long story short, they eventually divorced. He left UK to go back to Pakistan, and she remained in Canada.

  • Gail

    February 8, 2016

    Eski2016,

    I am happy u figured out what was going on.It makes me feel great to know your eyes are open.Don’t worry about that guy u can’t change him he is what he is just move on and enjoy your life free from the drama.

  • Eski2016

    February 8, 2016

    Well said Ana!

  • anabellah

    February 8, 2016

    Omer, Welcome and thank you for commenting

    Gail pretty much summed up to you how I feel, as well. These men know that they have arranged marriages and they know their families don’t accept polygamy, so why take advantage of foreign women for personal gain? It is wrong. They need to stick with their cousin marriages and culture and not be greedy at the expense of harming others. These men claim to be Muslim. It’s not what Muslims should do – don’t follow desires. Don’t injure others knowingly. It would be different if they wanted to marry the foreign women to protect and maintain them and work together as a team with the intent to stay married. It’s not what they do most of the time when they get involved with foreigners. They take foreigners for a ride and for everything that they can get from them. Muslims are to be kind and just to all of mankind. But, then again, we’re talking culture when it comes to Pakistani men and not Islam.

  • anabellah

    February 8, 2016

    Eski2016,

    You don’t know how happy I am that you learned the truth, and didn’t follow your desires. Don’t feel foolish. You are one of the smart ones. Be grateful to your Creator that he saved you from what could have been one of the biggest and worse mistakes of your life. It should be a good lesson for you that will prepare you to go forward to meet a man who is worth your time and trouble. Please know that there is no Prince Charming or Knight in Shining Armory who will whisk you up and carry you away so that you could live happily ever-after. Get rid of the fairy-tales. We all have bumps and bruises in life. Learn from it and keep it moving. Don’t let it make you jaded. It’s all good. I’m glad we could be of help. It’s what we are here for.

  • Eski2016

    February 8, 2016

    I am 100% believer! Thanks Ladies!! I am so thankful I found this site! The guy I was talking to for four months was all just a lie! And I just found out this morning. I was more furious when I found out Sam had been avoiding me for the past 10 days. Everything he had say were all lies. I post a comment on his facebook. I dont know why he hasnt deleted me..dunno know why? Only he “muted” me.

  • Gail

    February 7, 2016

    Omar,

    I agree maybe not all r the same but in all honesty with odds like 60% -70% thats pretty bad odds for a foreign women to be taking such a risk with her life don’t u agree? Even lets say she gets a decent Pakistani man still u have problems like culture and religion issues that are so difficult if not impossible to overcome as well.Then u bring children into the mix man it gets depressing fast when u try to blend cultures.All I am trying to express the road is a very hard road for foreign women to deal with and most will end up with anxiety or depression and will fail to enjoy their lives so why go there and create so much tension in ones life for no real reason.
    Again we all know that Pakistani people do not do love marriages as their families arrange their marriages mainly with cousins.I do believe however that say an american women would be fine to marry a European man as they have basically the same culture and way of living and religion background.So I am not against all foreign marriages.

  • Omer

    February 7, 2016

    Well, your topics seems to be interesting. I agree with the all topic description but to mention one thing there are majority 65-70% of the people like that.Not all the same.

  • Eski2016

    February 5, 2016

    Yes, I won’t disagree with you there. LOL

  • anabellah

    February 5, 2016

    Eski2016,

    You (Canada) has a handsome Prime Minister now. The US has a handsome president; although the presidency has taken a toll on his appearance. He’s still handsome though LOL

  • Eski2016

    February 5, 2016

    Again much thanks ladies! XX’s. I am a Canadian. 😊

  • Gail

    February 4, 2016

    Ana,

    I agree it’s funny how u change as u get older and wiser.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2016

    Eski2016,

    Your welcome happy u r seeing the reality of what is going on.U hang in there and be patient and G.D will send u the right person.I totally understand getting caught up in dreamland I did the same thing myself and as Ana stated I would imagine the majority if not all women are guilty of it to some degree and why not we grow up dreaming of Prince Charming.
    Listen u have to be careful with foreign men so please please consider staying in your own culture for your own sake.I don’t know if u r a muslim or not but as with any religion people can say the are anything but that don’t mean they live it simply because culture is so ingrained in peoples minds.If u decide to marry outside of your culture research it completely and understand everything u can about that particular culture is my sincere advice.Things u should be looking for is DO they do Cousin marriages,What are their thoughts about your particular country(Do they think your country women are whores etc..) Do the women in that particular country accept Polygamy(I know for a fact Pakistani women don’t accept it they will deal it but never accept it esp if u r foreign wife so that makes things complicated)Hope this helps.

  • Eski2016

    February 4, 2016

    I am so glad I found this site. It really opened my eyes/mind. I guess I just really wanted myself and this guy to because “us”, to really happen as he made me forget about reality and he made everything about me and us. How he planned about our future, having kids, and all that. And I thought he loved me. For four whole months. 💔😔 But thank you ladies. This did really opened my eyes.

  • anabellah

    February 4, 2016

    Gail,

    Many women are in love with the concept of love. They get lost in a fairy-tale world made up in their heads. They live in their heads. I know what you’re talking about when you said you met your husband after talking a year with him on the internet and your feelings for him were different once you met him face to face. When I was non-Muslim and out there dating, I’d talk with someone on the phone or got set up on a blind date. I thought I had good feelings about the person, but as soon as I saw the person those feeling vanished. It happens. Women need to start living in the real world. I guess the same as I had to experience it for myself, others must as well. I thank Allah it didn’t go as far as marriage.

    You are a fortunate one You have a child by your husband and you’ve adopted his children. You’ve got his parents living with you, as well. It doesn’t appear he has any intention of leaving you. Your marriage isn’t ideal, but there aren’t any that are. Imagine marrying one of those losers; he get a visa/Green Card; and he kicks you to the curb, give you the boot, throw you out like you’re a piece of trash. I;d imagine it would mess me up for life, had it happened to me. I suppose for some it’s just their fate. Some people just can’t heed warning.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2016

    Eski2016,

    U better listen to the warnings otherwise u r going to pay dearly.He has already made his intentions clear to u he wants a visa(Don’t be daft).Now he has blocked u or not talked to u for a week on top of that.I mean what more do u need? This is going to sound harsh but u really need to GROW UP before u end up getting into something u r going to loose your mental health and possibly physical health over.
    U don’t meet someone on the computer and know them BELIEVE ME! I did what u r doing so I know.I chatted with my husband for a year online before flying to pakistan and marrying him.What I had built up in my mind about him mentally was just false.Even when I met him I didn’t feel the same way towards him for awhile.Putting a face and life to the internet person was very different in real life.So if u do this be prepared when u do meet him u may very well have strange feelings like they may change in a weird way.
    I really suggest u since he has mentioned Visa which we all know is a lie because u can go to Pakistan and meet him alot easier than u applying for him a visa(which by the way he Embassy is not going to give u because u have never met him and Embassy knows this scam of Pakistani and foreign men using American and European women to scam them for a visa and as Shadia clearly stated get the ignorant American Whore to fund the visa and his trip etc…
    They think of us as Whores/loose women and u can’t really dispute that in their minds because there women do not sit and chat on the internet and hook up with men.It is not in there culture to do that so women that sit on the net looking for a man is just a cheap Whore looking to be exploited.Again these people do not do love marriages they do Arranged cousin marriages the huge majority of them.If that is not a huge light bulb going off I don’t know.Also u better understand Pakistani women don’t accept Polygamy and when u r dealing with her being a cousin well it is very rare that Foreign wife doesn’t end up divorced.
    In my case I have a biological son with my husband and I adopted his two children from his first marriage and have raised them since birth etc..but I am the exception not the rule and my life has been anything but a picnic.

  • Shadia

    February 4, 2016

    @@ Eski …take heed to these warnings because these Pak men are very cunning. Visa process cost money and his excuse would be he has none or not enough and you will have to pay. Western Union and Money Gram would become your new place of business. Do not let your heart rule your head.

  • anabellah

    February 4, 2016

    Hope that he blocked you. Maybe when you asked him if he wanted you for a visa he knew you were going to be a problem and he went on to look for the next one that would be easier or already found one.

  • Eski2016

    February 4, 2016

    I am so cofused. I want to believe everything I have read on this site & I really want to believe this guy. There is not a day where I can’t stop thinking about him. I guess I am already there (Trapped)? We have not ever met but his words (voice) lingers in my head. But what scared me was when he asked me to be his wife…and this was only two months of msging and texting. And ask about if I ever wanted kids. But he has never ever asked for money from me, but only a Visa sponsorship and that was it. I also confronted him if it was only for Visa and he no. Only because he wants to meet with me. But I havent heard from him since last week friday & now Im starting to think he blocked me? No idea..??

  • anabellah

    February 4, 2016

    Esk2016,

    It is not real. By no means and in no way is it real. It is an illusion. You are not the exception to the rule. Don’t fall into his trap. Learn from those who came before you.

  • Eski2016

    February 4, 2016

    Gail, I don’t find this is a game. I only wanted answers…& I wanted me and this guy to be real, as I am fond of him? And he know’s that. I was more open to him then he was to me. I couldn’t get the answers from him so I had to ask if this was real between us meaning me & this guy.

  • Gail

    February 3, 2016

    Eski2016,

    I am Gail welcome to the blog.I am married to a Punjabi and I read your comments.U have to be crazy after reading the blog and thinking this guy is crazy about u.Look my husband did the same thing.We met via internet and I broke it off with him for a month and would not reply his messages and he contacted 2 of my friends trying to get in contact with me.U come across in your writings like this is some game to u but I can assure u it is no game and if u walk down this road u better get ready to enter at the least a life of Polygamy or divorce.Pakistani people do not marry for love they have arranged marriages so get your head out of the clouds is my advice and come back to earth.U said u researched well i can tell u all the research in the world is not going to prepare u for the hole u r digging yourself.

  • Eski2016

    February 2, 2016

    Kim, “Give him another chance?” :/

  • Eski2016

    February 2, 2016

    Thanks Kim & Anabellah :)

  • anabellah

    February 1, 2016

    KIM,

    The way to go http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif I’m so happy to hear you got up out of that relationship before it was too late http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

  • KIM

    February 1, 2016

    DO NOT beat yourself up too badly. It was a lesson learned. I am extremely discerning and fell for it. When I tell you these men study for hours on how to prey upon women just to deceive them…..I make NO exaggeration!!! They are experts at it. They work in groups and coach each other how to go about what to say and whom to look for (what type of women). You are still smart and a good person. The fact that you even raised the question let’s you know you are aware that it isn’t right.
    The point of pride & hope that you and I share is that we woke up to the deception BEFORE MARRIGE! Please RUN!!!! Just as all of the women on this site have implored all to do. Feel the emotions of let down and disappointment, but Sweetheart——PLEASE DON’T LOOK BACK & CHANGE YOUR MIND TO “GIVE HIM ANOTHER CHANCE…”

  • Eski2016

    February 1, 2016

    Again Thank you :) Wish it wasn’t true..but I guess it is.

  • anabellah

    February 1, 2016

    Eski20016

    You’re not alone in being gullible. Who wouldn’t want the fairy-tale? I’ve been there and done that too. Many of us get caught up out there chasing a dream.

  • Eski2016

    February 1, 2016

    Thank you for replying Ana..I guess I just needed to hear it from someone then thinking it. Yes he is a Pakistani (Sialkot). He even started talking (txting) one of my friends, begging her to help him come here & that he would pay her so he can meet me. His charming words and good looks got to me I guess? I am so gullible…

  • anabellah

    February 1, 2016

    Eski2016,

    You called it right. You are just in a “fantasy land”. I can say it based on all I’ve leaned on this blog. The type of male that you’re dealing with on the internet is searching for a meal ticket out of the country that he is in. He’s found you. I’m assuming he’s in Pakistan. If things don’t workout between you and him, I bet my last dollar (figure of speech) that he would be on the internet tomorrow, pledging his undying love to another woman. You said you find that he loves you and wants to marry you to be way too fast. It’s a smart woman that you are. You see the red flag. Yeah, he wants to marry you alright – for visa/citizenship. Does he love you? He’ll pretend to love you until he gets what he wants (a green card). He’ll probably then drop you like a hot potato. He’ll go marry his cousin, if he isn’t already married to her or will go find another hottie who he really wants to be with. Do you see the picture? It happens all the time with those men.

    You said you want to believe him. I suppose you do. Most women want a husband who is head over hills in love with them and say they can’t live with out them. Don’t fall for the okie doke. I suggest you say your goodbyes to him immediately and DON’T hook up with another one of them. Cut all ties with him completely. Stop letting him fill your head with bullsh!t. Thank your Creator for saving you from a catastrophic marriage.

  • Eski2016

    February 1, 2016

    Here goes nothing….
    I am such a observer and a reseacher…but I have been wanting answers for awhile now. I am Canadian and I have met this guy (younger) Punjabi male, well he found me through Facebook. I want to believe everything he tells me. How much he likes “Loves” me. We hav been talking for about close to 4 months. And he has been asking me to go visit him to his home but I refuse to leave as I am afraid to leave my home…esp alone. And he would love to come to where I am residing but the problem is he doesn’t have a Visa. And I am a bit scared to apply, for he might not be what he be honest of being “in love” with me. I dont know how else to say what I’m thinging…but he says he “Loves” me. And wants to Marry me. But I find it way too fast. I mean we have never met & he keeps wanting to meet my Parents. Am I just in a fantasy land?

  • anabellah

    January 25, 2016

    Gail,

    It’s absolutely appalling what is happening. It has to be of epidemic proportion in which it happens. I agree that she needs to report him to immigration, if she is in the US. I hope she is wise and divorce him as soon as possible. It’s very sad.

  • Gail

    January 25, 2016

    Spirited,

    I couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Shadia,

    I forgot to mention I am also married to Pakistani man 12 yrs and he also used me for a visa and greencard and citizenship.He was married to his cousin I was an idiot didn’t know the culture at first and bought in to him being divorced hook line and sinker.I figured out 2 years into the marriage something was off but he would never admit to it.I had got a job working in the OBGYN medical field at a new clinic in a new city and I had a newborn baby so I didn’t have time to really think to much on what he was doing.Now looking back I can see everything clearly.Sorry u got into this mess! Hugssss… Warn other women to not mix up with these creeps.

  • Gail

    January 25, 2016

    Ana,

    That is the the first time i have heard of a women going to Pakistan and marrying a man and not meeting his family boy oh boy(shaking my head here).This is the problem women have no idea and I mean no idea how Pakistani or Southeast Asian culture is so and the American(assuming Shadia is American) Culture is anything goes is killing American women when they go and marry these men without knowing about the culture.She needs to report him to immigration that she believes he married her for a greencard esp… if she comes to find out he is married.

  • anabellah

    January 25, 2016

    Ooops, I just realized I had deleted Spirited’s post earlier by mistake. I put it back. This cellphone is so annoying.

  • Gail

    January 25, 2016

    Shadia,

    From what u have said this man seems to be married.Ho in the world did u travel to Pakistan and not meet his family?Where did u stay? I am so confused about your story? Please elaborate more.If u went to Pakistan and didn’t meet his family u better be figuring out what is going on because most Pakistani people r cool to let their sons marry for greencards so what u r saying sounds like he is married.If u go and try to file his case and he has a registered marriage u r going to be out all that money.Also he is using u straight up.U don’t marry a Pakistani man and not meet his family esp his parents it is just not done.Straight up he used u I have no doubt in my mind.Do not send that leach one more penny and don’t bother to immigrate him because he will just get his greencard and divorce u or worse yet string u along and until some young girl comes along and demands he divorces u and he will.Just chalk it up to lesson learned and don’t mix up with Pakistani men is my advice

  • anabellah

    January 24, 2016

    Spirited, Welcome back, Sis http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_yahoo.gif

    I missed you so. I thought you were back long ago and you forgot about me/us. It’s good to have you back. I’m so glad you spoke to Shadia about what to do. She’s really in a bad situation. So many women are being hurt. There needs to be more information out there online about awareness to help educate women on the problems they could encounter from seeking love online.

    Insha Allah, I’ll be back to finish reading. I’ve got a lot going on right now. Insha Allah, I’ll share it with everyone, but it may take several weeks. It’s very good news.

  • Spirited

    January 24, 2016

    Salaam, always a lively topic this one :D

    @Shadia, PLEASE leave that “marriage” right away. Yes I put the word in quotes because you’re not a wife to him, you’re a visa ticket. I come from a Pakistani background (all the previous generation in my family immigrated from Pakistan). Even being of Pakistani descent, I was also used for a visa. These men don’t care.

    In your case especially, you’re older than him by quite a bit (as a Pakistani male would see it), you’ve hooked up before marriage (which I’m taking to mean pre-marital sex) which is not usually something that a Pakistani man does with a woman he intends to keep as a wife and present to his family, which is also another reason he has not introduced you to his family because he has no intentions of being with you after his precious visa is in his hands. Well, unless he strings you along for a few more years to get himself settled in your country first, and then he’d be rid of you or marry someone he really wants as a wife. For all you know, he’s already married. The Facebook chatting (or dating website flirting) is typical behavior for them to get a fish on their line and hook a visa ticket out of Pakistan.

    DO file for divorce, DO NOT file any immigration paperwork, DO NOT go to visit him again. Put this experience behind you and keep in mind for the future, don’t take any Pakistani man seriously if he isn’t a citizen of your country or at least a legal resident. It’s not worth the devastation their extreme selfishness causes. I recommend warning other women you might know who are falling into this trap as well. I certainly do. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

    @Jasmina, I was born a muslim and I thought the same thing, rofl.

  • jasmina

    January 24, 2016

    Ana
    i was the same when i first converted and for another 10 years. i thought all muslims were good people and truthful. i was very naive too.

  • anabellah

    January 23, 2016

    Shadia,

    It would be sooo good if you could run or fly away from your husband, far, far away. I know it can’t be easy for you. You and he are married now. You’ve invested a lot of time and feelings in him. I’m sure you love him.

    Nonetheless, he is bad news. He is no good for you. Men like him play on the vulnerability of women. It is so sad. They say all the things that just about EVERY woman wants to hear. It seems to the woman that he is a dream come true. They think God has answered their prayer. It not real though. It’s all memorex. It’s like a recording. They’ve rehearsed what to say. Their words are like rain water falling from their lips. They probably tell their Pakistani friends what to say to sway the woman and bring her under his charm. So, please, don’t believe for a second that he is sincere.

    There were others here who were older than the Pakistani men whom they were intended to or married to. Based on what I’ve learned here on the blog, Pakistani men tend to go for younger women, not older ones. I don’t know if you have kids by another man, he doesn’t want them either. Furthermore, if he is popping off at the mouth every chance that he gets, asking you to get his visa and give him money, you know exactly what it’s about. He’s all about coming to America and getting the money and resources that he need for himself and his family back home. Chances are, you will never be his family. You’re just a meal ticket. You’re only a ticket to “the promised land.” More times than not, they eventually go back to Pakistan and marry a cousin or meet someone else in the States that they really want to be with and divorce the woman who brought who love him and went through hell and high waters to bring him here.

    I suggest you NOT buy what he’s selling. You have to find a way to be strong and leave him. He means you absolutely no good.

  • Shadia

    January 23, 2016

    I am currently married to a PAKISTANI man who is over 15 years my junior. We met on FB although we had no friends in common. He kept writing me asking to be his friend. At the time I had currently broken up with my ex and had no desire to jump into another relationship. Despite my rejections MR. Pak kept persisting with his charms and promises of true love and lifetime commitment and I fell in his trap. He immediately started asking about visa to come to America so he can work and earn a living to provide for us. He was rejected for visit visa. He then requested that we get married and for me to come to him. We met and we got married after a few times of hooking up. My marriage is a secret to his family. I kept asking him when will he tell his family about me and he told me after he moves to America. After reading your site I am ready to run if not fly as far away from this man. He appears innocent but he is very conniving and deceitful always requesting expensive items and money on a regular basis.

  • anabellah

    January 22, 2016

    It’s all about each person’s desires. They follow lusts and desires. Allah says one who is moved by desire has a diseased heart. Allah says it, not me.

  • anabellah

    January 22, 2016

    Sadia,

    You’re right. It’s not Islam, but I haven’t heard anything about Pakistan and many Pakistani people that is Islam. I’ve learned so much about “Muslim” from all over the planet just by being here on this blog. When I first became Muslim, I thought all Muslim were trying to live Islam the way I wanted to. I had a thirst for knowledge. I read all kinds of books about Islam. I have a library full of Islamic books that I spent a lot of money on over the years. Now, I just read the Quran. I quickly found out that I was very naive. I had thought I wanted to live in a “Muslim Country” when I first became Muslim. I definitely don’t want it now. No way, Jose. I’ll stay my bottom right where it is. Thank you very much.

    No one is teaching the true Islam. The Muslim men who are supposed to protect and maintain women are doing a piss poor job. Woman are more vocal about their own protection, and trying to get treated properly. The very men who are supposed to protect and maintain women are oppressing them and being unjust to them. They went back to living pre-Islamic times, before the days of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and is calling it Islam.

    It is soooo necessary for Muslim women to start learning their Islam, and not rely on anyone to tell them what it is about, especially not scholars and some Imams et. al who are perpetuating the subservient status of women.

    When it comes to taking a person’s word that he or she is Muslim, we have to investigate – not superficial stuff like if they smoke a cigarette or wear a beard or burka etc. I mean get down to the real nitty gritty of what they believe (what we should believe is the word of God in the Quran).

    Allah tells us to investigate. A person can be anything he or she wants to be on the internet. Pakistani men want a way out of Pakistan, and want to get what they can, any way they can get it to support themselves and their families in Pakistan. They don’t give diddly friggen squat about a foreign woman for love. It’s all about the do re me Money Pile

  • Shadia

    January 22, 2016

    I totally agree to stay away from online hook ups especially with a Pakistani man because it can be very devastating when found out that you are being used for visa or money. When I confront him he blatantly denies it yet before he can end the conversation he hints about a rush on visa process, needing money or requesting something that cost hundreds of US dollars. This is not Islam for a husband to be using his wife for material gain.

  • ummof4

    January 22, 2016

    As-Salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    BULLETIN! NEWS FLASH! TO ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE!

    GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE CLOUDS AND STOP THINKING THAT YOU CAN FIND TRUE LOVE ON THE INTERNET! (YES, YOU KNOW OF ONE FRIEND WHO FOUND HER TRUE LOVE ON LINE, SO YOU BELIEVE IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU TOO, LOL)

    USE YOUR FAMILY (IF THEY ARE SANE AND REASONABLE ACCORDING TO ISLAM) AND FRIENDS TO HELP YOU FIND A HUSBAND. GO TO SINGLES EVENTS WITH YOUR WALEE (THEY HAVE THEM IN THE US). FREQUENT ISLAMIC EVENTS WHERE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCOPE OUT POTENTIAL HUSBANDS AND HAVE YOUR WALEE INQUIRE ABOUT THEM.

    STOP MARRYING STRANGERS THAT YOU ONLY KNOW FROM ONLINE! IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU ARE A NEW REVERT TO ISLAM OR HAVE BEEN MUSLIM ALL YOUR LIFE!

    NOTE: I UNDERSTAND THAT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE IN LOVE WITH THE CONCEPT OF LOVE AND BELIEVE ROMANCE NOVELS AND DISNEY AND LIFETIME MOVIES ARE REAL, THIS IS A DIFFICULT PILL TO SWALLOW.

  • anabellah

    January 22, 2016

    Shadia, Welcome

    So, you got caught up out there with one of those persons. At least you know what you’re dealing with. What more can you do, but tell him to knock it off and leave you alone about the visa. Say no to the expensive gifts and money demands. Be grateful that you have eyes that can see he’s, as Maria2 would say, a “gimme” type person. I don’t know your exact circumstances. Too bad you just can’t unload that loser, as in get rid of him; divorce him. I suggest you not fall asleep on him. Recognize him for what he is and REMEMBER it. You have enough to read about some of those men on this post/thread. If you have any more questions, God willing, don’t hesitate to ask. Perhaps others here have something to say to you, as well.

  • Shadia

    January 22, 2016

    I am being spun in a web of lies and deceit by a Pakistani man I am recently married to. I am sick of the constant visa requests and the expensive gifts or money demands. HELPPPPPPP

  • Gail

    January 14, 2016

    Lin,

    Ana is correct these men are con artist and they are looking fishing.I actually have called it that many times on the blog over the years.There Goal is to get a European woman so they can marry get the greencard or citizenship then divorce and go back and bring their cousin to their country.The families see the foreign woman as a whore and expendable.Also u need to understand something else.U being from South America I think Columbia is a poor country as compared to USA or Canada,Germany,France etc.. so it makes me wonder if he had more sinister plans for u.These men have been known to take women to Pakistan and sell them into Prostitution.U can youtube it.My point is these men r looking for big Fish so consider yourself lucky!

  • anabellah

    January 14, 2016

    If you are considering a Pakistani man to marry, you just may be looking for love in all the wrong places

  • anabellah

    January 14, 2016

    Lin,

    I’m just so very glad that you found out about him before it was too late and before you got in too deep. Thank your Creator for protecting you.

    Those men are professional con artists. He’ll just move on to the next vulnerable woman in hope of catching a fish that he can keep, and don’t have to throw back Sigh.

    I’d suggest you stay away from men that are from third world/underdeveloped/poor countries looking for a meal ticket out of their dire condition. You need to be with someone who can pull you up, not drag you down. Take a lesson from the story. It’s all good http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_mail.gif Be smarter next time.

  • Lin

    January 14, 2016

    Thanks Anabellah and Gail for your answers,

    I’m from Colombia in South America. Not sure whether he was looking for a greencard from me as he told me he was trying to move to Canada under a business visa and that he’d like to send me a visa when he settled there but then he said that he would come over to Colombia just for me because he couldn’t wait anymore to meet me and that I should tell my parents about it. I obviously wasn’t into that idea of him visiting me when he is a stranger but sort of tried to trap me with his sweet words. He ‘wanted’ to come over to Colombia, take me with him to Pakistan and then honeymoon in about 3-2 weeks of meeting him. Whatever he was planning to do, i don’t know why he wasted my time saying that crap all the time and why he couldn’t keep a friendship with me when I faced him with the truth, according to his cousin he has been engaged for six months.

    It’s a very complicated culture and I tried to keep my mind open, he even claims to be open minded but as soon as he told me to Block his cousin because I was only ‘his’ girlfriend I knew something was wrong.

  • Tasliyman

    January 12, 2016

    @Zafar107107

    Wow, I can imagine how shocked you must be reading the replies here when you were obviously hoping to find a very different answer.

    Although I can assure you that Gail and Ana knows what they are talking about. If you go through the old posts on this blog u will see that they are usually spot on.

    It’s a harsh reality to be faced with but at least you get a reality check before it’s too late.

    If you still believe that you are the exception to the rule [women can be very stubborn :-)], the very least you should do for yourself is to investigate and inspect the situation with the new knowledge you have at hand to make sure that you are not falling into the same trap that so many women before has. Read through the old posts and see if any of the warning signs are also present in your situation.

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    They are worse than pond scum
    :-( Although there probably is ONE that is the exception, not the rule

  • Gail

    January 12, 2016

    Lin,

    Thanks G.D u found out in time! I know not every woman will figure out they r being played and a normal reaction for most women is I am the exception not the rule and my man really loves me etc… I would say in the case of Pakistani men even if they love u SOOOOOO WHATTTT!! DO u wan the kind of love that someone lies to u hides a wife and kids behind your back,uses u for a greencard,Your inlaws and everyone knows but YOU! I mean this is the $hit reality if anyone mixes up with these men.

  • Gail

    January 12, 2016

    Zafar107107,

    Hi I am Gail and I read your Post.Listen u said the man was a farmer and normally that means he is poor.U have no idea and I seriously mean no idea what u r heading towards.First u don’t know if his wife is sick and It don’t matter because he has kids with her and more than likely she is his cousin and they live joint family which means he is living all his life with his wife and kids.Now u r crazier than Crazy if u think he is going to divorce his wife.Listen He may say he is not interested in immigration but that is an outright lie and I am dead serious.Look even on the remote chance he didn’t want to immigrate his kids and wife would push him for their families future.U r nothing more than a Whore with a free ticket for that family to USA.I am sorry I had to break it down like that but that is how Pakistani people view White Foreign Women for the most part.Secondly GIRLLLL Pakistani people don’t marry for love they have arranged marriages HELLOOOO!! This is not a new idea in Pakistan they have been doing this since the beginning of time.Third u are saying u have no interest in Polygamy knowing he is married and even if u did have interest I am 99% certain his wife would not go for Polygamy as well.She would deal it until he got a greencard out of u then she would tell him to get rid of u ASAP.I KNOW I KNOW u said he doesn’t want to leave his beloved Pakistan but open your eyes girl this is just a deception technique to get u to Pakistan and put u in a $hit condition and knowing that u yourself will scream Pakistan is to hard a place to live ORRR he will marry u then put pressure on u after marriage to file immigration so u and he can go to USA so he can work.
    Long story short u don’t know the culture and u r a different religion.I grew up Christian myself so I understand u and your mindset and I understand Pakistani men as well.I am telling u this is a set up and u better open your eyes.Another thing as well I am warning u being a foreign woman don’t go to Pakistan u can be sold very easy into prostitution.U don’t know this man personally.Pakistan is just not safe for foreign people right now.
    Again I want to say Pakistani people do not marry for love they have arranged marriages love comes after marriage understand.I am sorry but u r playing with FIRE and u will get burned if u continue down this path.

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    I think it is totally amazing that women could read the main thread/post above and still consider for marriage those con artist out there. They think they are the exception to the rule. REALLY??? http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gif

    It’s crazy http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    Lin,

    It is completely true. It’s as real as real can get and real is real and the best thing yet. Just be grateful that you found out the real deal before it was too late. You didn’t fall for the okie doke. I suggest you stay away from foreign men and stick to your own kind. There is no perfect man or perfect marriage. You may go through the wringer with any man to a degree. What you stand to get from a foreign man may be more than you bargained for. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_mail.gif

  • anabellah

    January 12, 2016

    Zafar107107,

    Okay, so your boyfriend is married and he lives with his wife in Pakistan. He says he is “Muslim”. You live in the USA and say you are Christian. You two want to marry each other.

    He says his wife is ill and he doesn’t have sex with her. First, let me tell you. Probably the majority of married men whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, a non-denomination or whatever say they don’t have sex with their wives when they are trying to get with another woman. They say it to win the women whom they wants to be with. The men know that if they confess to their new sweetheart that they still have sex with their wives, regardless of how often, they’ve lost the women whom they want to get with. It’s over before it got started good.

    I’ve heard it all here on this blog and I’ve heard it when I was a non-Muslim from non-Muslims. Men lie to get what they want. They will say the wife is dumb, crazy stupid, psycho, dying from a chronic disease, smells, can’t take care of herself, is a hermit, or whatever to make the other woman think that he can’t leave her. He says she can’t take care of herself and he must stay with her forever. More than likely, he love his wife and wouldn’t leave her for all the tea in China.

    Let me ask you a question. How do you think you’d like it, if you were married; I don’t care if it was a “happy” marriage or not, and some woman hooks up with your husband, and tell him to divorce you? I don’t think you’d like it very much. So, why do you want to impose it on another woman?

    He is married and says he is Muslim, which means he could have more than one wife. Polygamy is permissible. He doesn’t have to get rid of his other wife to have you as a wife as well. For whatever reason, based on what you’ve told us, he doesn’t want to get rid of his wife.

    If you want to marry the man, put your Christian ways aside, marry the man and enter a polygamous marriage – you, he and his wife.

    If you can’t do it, if you want to remain Christian and don’t want to share, then go get yourself an American man who lives the American way. Get yourself a man who lives the way that you do.

    Why should the Pakistani man change his life for you? Is it because he loves you? Well, apparently, he loves his wife, as well. Furthermore, the same could go for you. Change your life for him because you love him. You’re trying to make something fit that can’t – Muslim and Christian. You’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. One has to let go of his or her way of life and go with the other. You can’t have it both ways.

    Gail, who is one of our blog family members here, is married to a Pakistani man who says he is Muslim. Although he says he is Muslim, he now lives monogamous and dances to Gail’s beat. Hello, is he Muslim or Muslim in name only?

    I suggest that you marry him and live a polygamous lifestyle or get to steppin – move on. Your broken heart will mend.

  • Lin

    January 11, 2016

    This must be completely true. I met a Pakistani man online who said he fell in love with me from the moment he saw me for ‘heart reasons’ and we would talk everyday, he would be so sweet and say he wants to spend his entire life with me that I ended up liking him a lot but then his cousin adds me and I found out about his engagement which he never told me about. He said that his mom was asking him to get married before he gets old, told me he only wants to marry one girl and that’s me but he never said he was engaged. I was suspicious and I found out the truth on time then when I asked him why he lied to me, he said he only felt pure love and denied everything. I told him his cousin told me this and then he said Ok I am liar, don’t text me anymore. I will live with your pictures and Don’t message my cousin. As if everything he told me just vanished the moment I found out.

  • anabellah

    January 11, 2016

    Zafar107107, Welcome.

    I’m sorry I didn’t approve your comment till now. It had gone into the spam queue so I had to fetch it out. It probably went there because of the numbers in your user name. Allah knows best. I’ll try to get back to chat with you.

  • Zafar107107

    January 11, 2016

    My boyfriend is Muslim lives in Pakistani I am from USA
    He tells me he loves me & in his heart we are married just not on paper but plans to when I fly to his home
    He is married, I ask him to divorce her but he says she is sick and what do I request to do with her
    So I feel sad about that he makes me sad
    He has four grown children
    Does not want to move to USA
    He is a farmer and tells me I can’t work when I marry him unless I wrk on farm or stay in home. Also tells me I can’t go out unless I’m fully covered but my face can be seen. But no other man allowed to see me. I am a Christain how is this going to work? I want him to divorce he says he’s not been in her bed for 7 years now due to her illness
    Should I just request divorce or call off wedding because my faith I don’t want a man with two wives. I am American woman and Christain faith we believe in not sharing even if she does bed him dres there n married to him still
    I’d be so jealous him around her
    But we’ve been together over 8 mths almost we love each other share each day talk almost hour on hour if possible a small text due to work but each morning n night we share n it never fails I’d miss him dearly if I had to cut him off and get him outs my life plz help me understand how to get him to understand I need him to divorce her and will our married work
    I feel heart broken.

  • Gail

    December 30, 2015

    Tasliman,

    Oh your welcome.Although I no longer practice polygamy I went through the Hell at the way Polygamy came into my life and the lies that came along with it.I feel compelled to stay with the blog just to help other woman that come that have married foreign men and all the issues that go with a mix marriage.It helps me mentally to explain to other women and tell them my story so that if they find themselves in a situation that seems suspicious or just trying to live in the same home joint family marriage I have alot of experience in all that stuff.I don’t stay to on the blog to try to stop every women to not mix and marry a Pakistani or India man.I just want to say Hey here are the warning signs to educate other women so they r going into a marriage blindly.I am pretty certain most women will marry go ahead with the mix marriages at least I expect they will because these men are smooth talkers and have sex appeal like crazyyyy.
    The women after they do marry and their husbands are using them then they will will smell a rat alot faster that I did(years faster) and save themselves from years of mental torture blaming themselves thinking that they did something to deserve their life of misery like i did. I had no idea that I was not alone and this is common men using women for greencards.It was a life changing for me.When i found Ana’s blog and I started piecing things together I know longer felt like a victim but became empowered to stand up and say hey this is wrong and tell my story in hopes that I can educate other women through my own experiences.
    I am a very firm believer in being a strong minded,fair,woman and I don’t think it is to much to ask that my husband play by the same rules that I play by as well.
    Also I want to add that if u notice I don’t make it my habit to bash my excowife although Lord knows I could say alot of things against her but I don’t dare because I do feel she is a woman also and she is not as mentally strong as I am because she has to live under her family rules and her family is against me understand.So it would not be fair for me to bad mouth her given I understand her weakness.I do feel really bad for Pakistani and India women for being stuck under not only their husbands but also their families.2016 is upon us and still we have slavery in this world not every person in this world is free to make their own life choices.There are lots of types of slavery in this world and mental slavery is certainly a type of slavery make no doubts about it.

  • Spirited

    December 7, 2015

    Hey you two,

    Let me just pop in and be all nosy :D

    My mom is in Pakistan right now, she had gone with one my brothers and wants me to help her out so she’s not worried about him all the time while she does her shopping and visit with her family members (he never learned the language). That’s the main reason for my visit this time around — hanging out with family is always a great bonus, plus yes I have the final goodbye and giving the gifts I had promised I would bring the next time I went (and I always try my best to keep my word if I can help it).

    My previous visits had all been on account of an event or something such as that. I think one visit was purely just to visit (not any special event). Ana, nope, I really didn’t think anything was wrong — it wasn’t ideal, but not that bad. I trusted that this time, he would keep his word and if something was amiss, he would talk to me, so no, I didn’t have any thoughts of anyone trying to intercede. If I had suspected he was lying again, I would have just ended it way earlier instead of wasting more of my life with him.

    My in-laws are nice people, I’ve never had a mother-in-law horror story or anything like that. The only flaw I see in them is that they gave their oldest son (the moron I was/am married to) WAAAAAY too much importance and credit in the family. He often acts like he’s head of the household and he tries to boss his parents around like they’re inferior to him. He just thinks he’s too good for everyone, and that is definitely a personality/character flaw, nothing anyone else could do about that. Oh well.

  • anabellah

    December 6, 2015

    Gail,

    Wow, so you think you’re lactose intolerant? It’s the same thing my mom was diagnosed with after she had the same exploratory surgery that you had. It’s good that it’s something fairly easy to correct.

    Yes, you have to learn how to turn the channels in your mind or put it on mute, if you want to be content and at peace. It takes a lot of work and effort. We have to learn to control the thought waves of our minds. We are told to do it is by seeking refuge in God from Satan the accursed. Satan is an avowed enemy. He can only get to us by way of his whispers. People call it imagination, but it’s Satan.

    Spirited did say she is going to go to Pakistan to hang out with her cousins and say a finale goodbye to her in-laws. I was wondering if she had been going so frequently in hope that someone would intercede on her behalf and try to help save her marriage. I wouldn’t fault her at all, if it were what she’s been doing and is hoping for, as I know she loves her husband. I know she is hurting and has mixed emotions. She has been going through sooooo much. I truly think that stress contributes to health issues.

    All of us here are like family. You all are my best friends. I am sooooo happy that we are all here on the blog. Sometimes, Gail, it seems it just you and me, as we talk the most LOL. I’d be lost without you {{{hugs}}}

  • Gail

    December 6, 2015

    Ana,

    I don’t know I am trying something new recently and trying to just STOP and silence my mind.What I mean by that is when I feel myself getting upset or feeling insulted etc,,,I just stop and don’t go there.It’s kinda been working.My health seems to be improving and I think my stomach pains were because I am lactose intolerant which really sucks because I love cheese so much.I am looking into trying goat cheese because i heard it is easier on the stomach.
    I been thinking about Spirited constantly since she let us know about her upcoming divorce.Did she say she is going to visit her inlaws in Pakistan again?Maybe I misunderstood and she is going to visit her own family in Pakistan not sure.
    I am worried about her health with all her bleeding and having PCOS as well.I am going through the exact same thing she is right now and it has really affected my hormones/mood.Constant bleeding made me like a mad woman.It’s crazy how close alot of us have gotten over the yrs being on this blog.I seriously think of u ladies like my bestfriends even we have never met it is soo weird but u girls know me better than anyone else.

  • anabellah

    December 3, 2015

    Gail,

    I am so happy for you and your hubz. :-) You do seem to have a love for working with real estate. Investing in mobile homes and development seems to be what you were made to do. It’s important to do what one likes, as it’s makes doing it sooooo much easier than doing anything else. You’re drawn to it, so it must be for you. As you said, it could be what you and your hubz have in common. It could be the tie that binds along with the children. When things get tough and you feel like giving up, you have the children and land to keep you grounded. :-)

  • Gail

    December 3, 2015

    Ana,

    Well something pretty awesome has happened this week.I and hubby ran across some land a couple weeks ago that is for sale.We made an offer on the land and it has been accepted.I have soil scientist coming out to the land on sat to do a perk test for 3 septic systems and if all works out I will close on the land on Monday through the local title company.I stand to make around 200,000 profit from the land after putting 3 homes on the 3 lots.Even more than that if all works out like I am expecting I will own 6 homes by the end of 2016 and possible even 7 because the owner of the property i am buying from has close to another acre he is willing to sell me dirt cheap! I can not tell u how much I am loving mobile home development.
    I am trying to figure out ways to cut cost even more buy having hubby run to get licensed for septic installation and buying our own backhoe.
    I have always wanted to do real estate and even went to Real Estate school when I was 30 but put it on the back burner.I would have never thought in a million years I would have gotten into Mobile home development but all I can say is WOW I love it a million times more than stick home investing.It is sooo much cheaper I am not loosing my tenants and I have a people calling off the hook to rent to own mobile homes with land.
    I won’t lie it is sooooo much work and alot of financial investing but I feel like it is my calling.It is the one thing hubby and I have in common that we both love love love this business.Just thought I would share how everything is going on the real estate side.

  • Gail

    December 3, 2015

    Ana,

    I agree people just need to wise up and know what they r getting into and be prepared for a roller coaster of a ride should they choose to marry not only a Pakistani man but any man outside their religion,culture,ethnic group.It is just a given problems are bound to arise.

  • anabellah

    December 1, 2015

    Gail,

    Lol, yeah, there wouldn’t be enough bytes to post all the pics of the Pakistanis on the blog. Not only that. We’d have to post pics of the evil people who exposed the pics and the people who approved them. Furthermore, everybody’s pics would have to go on the blog because everyone on the planet has done dirt.

  • Gail

    December 1, 2015

    Ana,

    I agree the message that is trying to be sent here is not for the men but for women to wise up and don’t get mixed up with Pakistani men unless u know that man and his family personally.If u r a foreign woman and met the man on the internet or on the job through college etc.. U better think a million times before u jump in that Pakistani Rabbit hole.
    Woman have got to take responsibility for their own lives and not be so Naive when it comes to every Tom Dick and Harry telling them they they love them.If u were to start posting pictures u would have to put all Pakistan on your blog hahaha
    Better women learn to think before they jump.There is enough info on the internet now that women can make an informed choice.The message is out there what they do with it is up to them.

  • anabellah

    December 1, 2015

    Angelpatches, Welcome and thank you for imputing

    I can’t see how putting the pics of those men on the internet would help. Those men have family. They have wives, children and friends whom I am sure love them. Exposing those men would not only hurt them, but will hurt others as well. If those men have done wrong, they will answer to God for it. There is no need to try to destroy someone by exposing them on the internet.

    I have been a victim of spiteful, hateful people (wanna be’s sherlock holmes) on the internet who have put my husband and my personal information out there on the internet, knowing I blogged anonymously. They tried to destroy my husband and his livelihood. They were NOT successful. His and my lives only have gotten better since they’ve done their devilish act. I’m sure their lives haven’t. Nothing good comes from evil.

  • Angelpatches

    December 1, 2015

    I just wish we could put there pictures on here that would really help.

  • Gail

    November 21, 2015

    Lety,

    I am curious how do u know your husband is not already married in Pakistan?
    Listen if he has not told his family about u then u for sure can think u r not part of his family.It means very clearly he is keeping u secret for a reason and that reason is he must be engaged if not married already and more than likely to a cousin.I wish I could be more positive but think about ti logically he is obviously marriage age and his family is thinking he is not married
    it is the parents job to marry their son etc are u following me here?

  • anabellah

    November 20, 2015

    Noor,

    I’m happy that you are happy. Thank you for sharing your joy :-)

  • noor

    November 20, 2015

    i am happy

  • ummof4

    November 18, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and welcome to all,

    Lety, welcome to the blog. I agree with Ana and feel you should be concerned. Marriage is celebrated in Islaam and shared with family and friends. A secret marriage is a big red flag that something is not correct.

    Are you Muslim? I only ask that because the advice may differ depending on whether you are Muslim or not.

    May Allah protect us all from lies and deceit from anyone, including ourselves.

  • anabellah

    November 17, 2015

    @Lety,

    Welcome! I wish I could say you have nothing to worry about, but I can’t. Don’t you think it is peculiar that you are married and your husband’s family knows nothing of you? It’s not how marriage usually works. Who wouldn’t want to tell the world, especially family, about his bride? The majority of those men have an agenda and it is all about taking care of their biological, blood family, not a foreign wife.

  • Lety

    November 17, 2015

    Oh no, after reading all of this I am definitely worried. I have been married to my husband for a year. He is visiting his family in Pakistan next week for 3 weeks! Should I be concerned? His family doesn’t know about me, so he might come back married?! This is definitely a self esteem destroyer by the way. I am not sure what to do … Any advice would be appreciated.

  • anabellah

    November 7, 2015

    I’ve placed a link here for those who would like to refresh their memory about Aussie’s story: http://www.polygamy411.com/marry-pakistani-man/#comment-7451

  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015

    Ps. If you want to see the start of my story its on May 15th 2015. I realise this sounds as jumbled as his lies are. I think Im just going to have to block him again. I’ve already told him to stop wasting his time gaslighting me and to make new friends. Hopefully thats enough. I so wish I could compare notes with his new wife though.

  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015

    ps. Id love to just chat to his wife btw but its probably a rabbit hole I should stay away from. Once he gets his VISA he could get aggressive. At least thats what my student says

  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015

    Ha ha you two are awesome :) he’s from Lahore and my student from Karachi. Yeah I think he mentally raped me and he’s trying to do it again somehow. He is quite Westenised in some ways however as his mum is a politician and wants to learn more. He doesn’t seem to care if you swear at him and tell him how it is. I think the persistance is cultural too. I hate not being friends with my exes though and we did have a connection. He said he’s 100% in love with his wife now (she is Aussie and his flatmate and who he two timed me with.) I never met her in the year I was seeing him because she was always fighting with him and trying to kick him out. (Apparently they had an interlude a month before we got together.) They live in a massive five bedroom house with her upstairs and him downstairs so they just ignored each other for a while. Ive joked before that he’s like bluebeard. He probably just really wants to be friends because other people have picked up on the dodgy politician thing. I can’t believe his mum just didnt help him do a uni course so he didnt have to pressure anyone and just go out with them for a while. Im pretty sure he doesnt have a Pakistani wife, Ive interrogated and teased him no end. But yeah a bit suss on why he wants to be friends so much.

  • Umair

    November 7, 2015

    Hi Aussie Girl,

    Where is he from in PK?Just to get easy ride as visa systems are getting tougher & tougher in these countries including “International Student Visa” & Work Visa.

    Where are you from Australia? Main city or small outback town?

    What’s his name?Is his name Zeeshan by any chance?

    Who is your Pakistani student?

    You are absolutely right,whole family is behind it to marry a white girl with mother,sisters,father,brothers in this plan,then divorce her,go back to PK ruin another girls life & families life bring her here as your spouse on spousal visa which has increased too.What do you mean by his flat mate? A male flat mate?He is already playing double game or doing fraud with his wife…Hacking hacking is all non sense,Pakistani girls don’t do that to husbands…He actually mentally raped you.

    Your student is right that Pakistani man will talk about marriage, as his wife just to sleep with her.That’s why in Islam no relationships & pre-martial sex or fornication or adultery or girl running away or eloping for marriage,as there are many undesired children thrown away,once he runs away even after marriage with whole burden on women to raise them.

  • Gail

    November 7, 2015

    Aussie Girl,

    If u r done with him !00% just tell him to F@ck off and do not contact u again or u will go get a restraining order against him.Thats the easy way.Tell him straight u got his number and if u ever get desperate enough in the future to be faggot enough to marry him he will be the first to know.
    That’s the easy way! lol

  • Aussie Girl

    November 7, 2015

    Hello ladies, just to keep you updated. I bumped into my manipulative ex from Pakistan this year who was going out with his flatmate at the same time as me whilst trying to get me to marry him. He started texting me all the time which I ignored. Finally I agreed to see him after he sent a present to my work. In Punjabi style he says I am friends like family although we haven’t hung out for two years. He said his wife ended up hacking through his phone to find out we were still together when they started going out. I hung out with him twice and kept getting texts from him until I finally exploded and said hes sexist and manipulative and I dont like it and reminded him he’d agreed for me to bid an extra $100,000 on a house for us although I didnt know he was already with his flatmate. He tried to gaslight me by saying I imagine things and am neurotic and we were only courting in the last six months of our relationship. He said the house thing is an elephant in the room. My Pakistani student said even if Pakistani men arent polygamous, some facets of it can be ingrained into cultural behaviour. One is to threaten to get with someone else if you fall out of line with their rigmorale (usually financially driven), the other is to reserve the right to date other people as well as yourself before you are married. The gaslighting and lying are all part of it. He also admitted that it was his mother who said he couldn’t even “get a faggot to marry (him) for a visa” about me but he said it was “find a faggot” and it wasnt about me, therefore Ive misinterpreted it. Ive read this before but it turns out his parents were pushing him as much as possible to marry me quickly so he could make money. He acts like this is normal culturally and doesnt feel guilty about it. Also my student said its culturally normal for a Pakistani man to talk about marriage with a girl even if he just wants to sleep with you.

    He still really loves me as a friend and is sorry about being so awful and said the visa system mixed with his parents pressure were messing him up. He won’t back down about agreeing for me to bid at an auction for him in the last week of our relationship though. I think its the lie that he tells himself for his new relationship to work. Anyway Ive found a lot of this awful stuff is cultural now and its how I can take it with a grain of salt. Otherwise Id be thoroughly insane from all the lying and the gaslighting. Oh he showed me some picture of a blonde older woman too (looks like his type) and asked if Id met her, he didnt say why but I wouldn’t be surprised if its another affair. He said his wife hacked his phone and found out about me and “something else.” He also gave me some bizarre social advise which involved dividing people to get what I want. His life is a strange manipulative soap opera. Anyway Im not sure whether to block him again because that seems to make him more persistent in trying to contact me, or just take it with a grain of salt as s cultural thing and just tell him to #@*% off whenever he contacts me and I get annoyed again. It takes a lot of energy.

  • anabellah

    October 24, 2015

    Ali,

    Your post had nothing to do with the problem that we were discussing. Just because the Pakistani government does some good every now and again doesn’t mean we need to ignore wrong doing.

    Gail was correct. No one here knows anything about those nationalities of men who you mentioned. We hear from women who have been “wronged” by Pakistani men. We talk about the matter at hand.

    Thank you, however, for sharing your political views.

    Umair,

    As Salaamu Alaikum, brother :-)

  • Gail

    October 23, 2015

    Umair,

    There is no way a white woman can do a background check on a Pakistani man living in Pakistan to that is absurd.I might have misunderstood what u meant to type not sure but everyone lies in Pakistan hoping for a piece of the pie if the boy gets out of Pakistan.
    As far as people having servants and all that Jazz and not wanting to leave Pakistan that’s just not truth.If the told Pakistani people they could leave the country no need of a passport WELL lets just say Pakistani would be empty! LOL
    I am not trying to talk bad about Pakistan I am just explaining the truth as I see it.

  • Umair

    October 23, 2015

    Ali.you hate it when Pakistan gets insulted/humiliated like that,but they have done this to ruin or destroy many women’s lives.Gail is one of them but she is to blame like other women to do character checks on him or her in the case of a girl from Pakistan…Many rejected in Pakistan are married by them as the families were smart to get character checks before marrying their daughters/sisters…

    The Gail point is right but I want to take it further with not only home politics but also office politics with very toxic environment on top of corruption galore or graft charges make you go sick.

    No Gail is not right that there are more rich people in Pakistan then US,who never wants to go out of Pakistan with lines of maid/servants in line in US.There are better guys in Pakistan than US,as every one or all fingers are not same.Much to be desired of their character checks from PK,which they didn’t get(Epic Fail)….

    Your point of FBI/CIA/Blackwater meddling in Pakistan is true.US is the orphan child of devil in any country it steps or enters in.,.Raymond Davis must have been hanged in Pakistan along with other Blackwater contractors,this is Pakistan’s weakness…

    Gail,is right to tell the black women,to tell the guy she is from Ethopia or Nigeria,let’s see where the love goes.

    White Blue eyed girls are beautiful with fantasy growing up,they are like Hoors.Thats why a person shakes looking at beautiful blondie blue eyes,not their acts & deeds if they are skunk….

    That’s why many taxi drivers Rape beautiful white girls as they are not going to get them…Recently a Pakistani Muhammad NAveed 40 yrs Taxi/Uber driver raped 20 yrs old British lass,after sending his wife & children to Pakistan & living the life of freedom alone!

  • Gail

    October 23, 2015

    Ali,

    I have been married with a Pakistani man for 12 yrs so I speak on the blog of my personal experience.I can’t speak of other nations because I don’t have experience with those men but I will say this in general if anyone is looking at a person to marry from a much lower level country then of course logically speaking u will need to understand the inherit risk that comes from marrying a person from a poor country.
    I agree with u that not every single Pakistani is horrible thats fine I accept it but the problem is that from my knowledge and investigations over the yrs I noticed that Pakistani men are on the internet fishing for European woman to marry for immigration and this just can’t be denied.Knowone is saying Pakistani life is not hard it is very hard to make a decent living in Pakistan then u combine that with family politics and only men working for the most part and the culture aspects yeah there is no wonder why they r fishing.Here is the thing though I feel I owe it to woman to sound the alarm bell and say hey before u jump u better consider the outcome and be ready for worse case outcome.
    Also even lets say for sake of argument both love each other and the feelings are mutual it really don’t matter because the man is so controlled by his family to the point his wants and desires really take a backseat to his family politics.Even if the woman stays normally she feels so suppressed that her life becomes miserable because she is hounded all the time by her inlaws sticking their 2 rupees in on how to raise the kids.It is enough to make a person mentally sick.

  • Ali

    October 23, 2015

    Well post i like it very much how you all make bla bla bla against Pakistani guyz or Mans. Not all Pakistani guyz do that not all are same yes i can say few are doing like this i not say i am not agree to this post i am really agree but why u target only Pakistani ? whole over the world many people try to go UK and USA but why u think all people want to go USA or UK. for me even some budy issue me USA Visa i will gives him or her back or broken front of him even UK. Not only UK or USA a really good country many countries much better than those countries. But i really not understand why you make target Pakistan guyz ? Filipino, Bangaladishi , indians serilankan indoneshian bhotan maldeep many many so many country guys like to go USA and UK to make many ways lol. You got Jelous ? coz Pakistan is a first Islamic country who Atomic Power and till 2017 its will be the no 4th super power of this world or u getting scared coz Pakistan got technology of Mezails those can finish even whole europe and also 2 really secrets Mezails those ranges not disclose yet. When u blame and point one whole nation think about your own self who you are and where you belong and where you stand just for a few people you have no rights to blame whole nation or use country name. USA people have to say thanks to Pakistani people we did help them too much other wise millions of US Soldiers will be dead and whole Afghanistan become Graveyard of US Army and thousands will be lost them parts like legs hands and much more . Also have to say thanks coz we gives them back alive RAYMOND DAVIS and some more American FBI agents those who do work inside Pakistan and they was doing work against Pakistan. If you gonna pin point only Pakistan coz of this thing and use name of my country i can put here too much about USA what they doing around the world also for own country but i am not like you blame your whole county because of only few guys so think before say hope those people got brain they understand what i mean thank you so much. I am proud to be Pakistani and this is only the country whole over the world no one can do any bad happen to us even USA UK INDIA ISRAIL OR RUSSIA . You have to stop this nonsense talking against Pakistani Guyz and stop this propaganda against Pakistan thank you so much

  • van

    October 23, 2015

    Yes. I totally agree with this post. So true!!! :) marry with PAK man Be aware!!!!

  • Gail

    October 17, 2015

    aagirl81,

    I am married to a Pakistani man for the past 12 yrs and from what I read his agenda is to trap u for marriage to obtain immigration.If u don’t believe me tell him u r not a USA citizen and u have nigerian citizenship or some other dirt poor African nation with high HIV rate then see if he still professes his love for u.LOL
    Wake up girl and get REAL before u get taken advantage of.
    Ana said correct u r not the right skin color not that being white saves u but it does help.They don’t adore black skin.

  • anabellah

    October 17, 2015

    aagirl81,

    I suggest that you be careful meeting anyone online. It is risky business. In your post you said that you are married. I am assuming you made a mistake in writing and you are not married.

    It has been said on this blog that Pakistani men prefer white women, not black ones. So the mere fact that you are African American should raise a red flag that he probably wants something from you and it’s not love and affection. You asked us if he likes you. There is no way we would know . We don’t know him. We know that many Pakistani men have an agenda and it is to leave Pakistan. They want to hook up with a woman from the west to help them do it – to help them gain citizenship in a European country. There are many men available out there. There’s no need for you to mess around with men out there who are questionable. I suggest you read this thread/ post and comments.

    You should read the comments on this blog. Getting involved with a Pakistani man is not recommended.

  • aagirl81

    October 17, 2015

    Hi, I am an African American women in the usa. Some how pakistani man who is 24 found me on social network site. I accepted his friend request. He asked me to be his girlfriend. I said no, then he asked if I could help him find a girlfriend. I said no. He asked for money and help with getting visa. I told him I had no money and could not help. I am married also. Pakistani boy still wanting to talk to me. He live in pakistan, but he works in Saudi Arabia. He says he is not married. He and I have been talking. I really like him. He says maybe one day he will come to usa. I say maybe we meet. He also likes lady boys. I think he is bisexual. Is that common? I still like him. What Are THE Chances He Likes me? He tells me he loves me. Is he joking? I am starting to fall for him.

  • anabellah

    October 12, 2015

    I’m almost finished watching a documentary on Netflix entitled, “Dark Girls”. It addresses what we’ve been discussing about people thinking light skin is better than dark, and about bleaching creams. They said bleaching creams cause cancer. The documentary, which is only an hour long, is quite good.

  • kim

    October 11, 2015

    Fatima,

    Thanks! For the truth. I appreciate it.

  • anabellah

    October 11, 2015

    People are pretty much prejudiced against Black People everywhere. The most peculiar thing about it is Arabs don’t like black people. They see them as lowly slaves the same as they see Indian people (which is evident by the incidents in the media recently involving Arabs enslaving Indian women). An Arab woman cut off the arm of an Indian woman who was her slave. Some Arabs made a couple Indian women sex slaves for a week, sodomizing them and doing them every which way but up – up too probably. Yet Black People parade around in the Arab’s get up. Many walk around dressed like Arabs, wanting to look and be like the very people that look down on them – the very people who don’t like them. It’s baffling to me.

  • Fatimah

    October 11, 2015

    Kim

    Lawd, I agree with Umair. A pakistani man agreeing to marry an African American woman??? They are one of the MOST prejudice ppl Ive ever come across. Allah forgive us all. I smell a rat who needs a green card. A pakistani man put his hand on the holy Quran and swore that he did not have another wife and married my aunt. She became a Muslim and married him. They had a son and everything. Later to find that he was cheating on her, with his wife!!! Im not going to eat out their backs but Ive seen enough in my experience with these folks to know not to deal with them. They really do lie. They dont like giving salaams to other muslims of different races. I should not make a general statement bc there are some very good Pakistani Muslims but these are traits. I crack up about that fair and lovely bc they have sooooooo many whitening creams to whiten those faces. So sad that they live in a prison. and Ana is right, it translate as not being satisfied with how ALLAH swt created them. ALLAH forgive us all.

  • anabellah

    October 11, 2015

    baseema,

    I’ve always been morbid when it comes to death. I have this thing, even before I became Muslim, in which I think about death regularly. When I became Muslim and in my general reading of Islamic material I learned we should remember death because it let us know this life is temporary and fleeting. It was right up my alley. I remember one day saying to my older sister that we should always think about death. She said, “Bullsh!t, am I going to think about death everyday.” I laugh about her response till this day. I get very concerned about my mom because at the age of 79, I know her days left on this earth is definitely limited. It saddens me. She’s not Muslim, so after this life, unless I go to the Hell Fire, I won’t ever see her again. The thought of her being in the Fire is not a thought that I relish.

    We should remember death as it lets us know we are running out of time to get ourselves right with Allah. He could seize our souls at anytime and we don’t know whether our good deed have outweighed our bad. Our good deeds must outweigh our bad for us to enter Paradise/Jannah. Some Muslims think that just being “Muslim” is enough to get them into Jannah/Paradise. Allah says if it wasn’t for His Mercy we’d all be in Hell. A lot of people think they are going to Jannah/Paradise, but will be in the Fire.

    There was a story (Not in the Quran) that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had someone come to him everyday with a reminder of death. One day he told the man he did not have to come to him with the reminder any longer, as he had seen a grey hair in his head which reminded him.

  • baseema

    October 11, 2015

    Thirty years, Ana, nice! You are very blessed to have that friendship. I have some long term friendships, but somehow life just seems to get in the way and I lose touch for a while, then reconnect. It’s really nice that you are so close to him. Those types of friendships are something priceless.

    Isn’t it shocking how time flies by? Life is so short. You spend your time when you are a young teenager wishing you were older, then you get your wish and realize how valuable time really is. It just marches on with or without you.

    Somehow I don’t feel my age, but it really hit me when my mother told me not too long ago that she wasn’t going to buy solar panels because “you don’t get your money back from them for at least 8 years and who knows where I will be in 8 years.”

    It was so sad. I don’t want to live as though I’m going to die soon. But I mean we all are going to someday, but basing decisions on it, hmm. I guess it’s practical, BUT… http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif

  • kim

    October 11, 2015

    Thanks Anabellah!
    I pray for myself and the other women caught up in this web of lies and deceit to have the strength to walk away and the peace to stick with that decision.

    All the Best to All us in the pursuit of true and honest love.

  • anabellah

    October 11, 2015

    Kim,

    It was wonderful having you here. You sound to be a very nice person. You can do better than him. He’s probably perpetrating a fraud undoubtedly. Get rid of that Loser sign Loser. Don’t start a relationship off on the wrong foot. you could do better than that. Don’t sell yourself short.

    The best to you, Kim! {{{hugs}}} It’s sad to see you gohttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cry.gif

  • kim

    October 10, 2015

    Well, I want to say thank you for the advice. I do believe what you are telling me. I will stop waiting in suspicion to prove that I knew about his lies all along. That is silly of me. I do not believe he is a Christian but a Muslim. He has studied how to pose as a Christian man, but his life never reflects that of a man of any faith. I admit, I did want to believe him and I was starting to fall for him, but I will slap myself back into reality not a the hope for his potential or a fairytale. I am glad for this site. Thanks everyone.

  • anabellah

    October 10, 2015

    @baseema,

    No need to thank me, Sis. I’m happy you are here. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif

    baseema,

    I can understand why Pakistanis people would want to leave the country for a better life. I totally get it. You wouldn’t be a true friend, if you didn’t want better for your friend. Insha Allah, he’ll leave there one day. I believe he is being truthful with you when he says that you will always have a connection, as he introduced you to Islam.

    It’s the same with my Wali and I. He introduced me to Islam and we’ve been the best of friends since we’ve met. It will be 30 years in March 2016. It wasn’t meant for he and I to be anything more. We have a purely platonic brother and sister-in-faith friendship. Allah swt places people in our lives for a reason. We don’t always know what the reason is. Sometimes it not for the reason that we thought it was.

    It’s really good that your friend wants to always be friends with you. It especially good that he reads Quran to you and you both discuss Islam. It’s important to keep Islam in the relationship. It’s the tie that binds.

    It’s so freaky to hear confirmation about all that everyone says with regard to Pakistani people. All that you says he does and says about the cousin marriages and giving all his money to his mother is incredible. You made me laugh when you said last you heard he only had a dollar in the account. Giggling

    Allah knows best whether he’ll ever be able to leave the country one day. Insha Allah, he will be able to. If he does the right thing with regard to the worship and belief of Allah and changes his heart, Allah will change his condition. Allah says He will not change the condition of a person until the person changes what is in his heart.

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015

    Thank you for the encouraging words Ana! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015

    Yep, he really did that. Had me really fooled! But I knew something was up because he was acting completely different too. It took him about 9 months after I blocked her for him to admit it and tell me why he was so distant.

    Also, he says he can never leave me, no matter what, because I became Muslim by learning from him. He told me even if I leave, marry someone else, etc., he will always be only a phone call away if I need anything. He says, according to religion, we are forever connected. I believe him, he’s never scammed me other than the lie, and he has even sent me money before a couple times.

    He is religious, he prays, sometimes reads the Quran over the phone to me, and he has good values, but apparently it’s that passage about it’s okay to lie to someone if you’re going to hurt them. He now says he knows it was wrong.

    I believe he does want to come here, because it is such a hard life there and who knows what the future holds. I would like to see him leave there too. The stories I hear about hours and hours with no electric, sometimes the cell phone networks are cut off, because of suicide bomber threats, it’s dangerous there. He gets sick too often, has to boil all the water, be very careful of eating outside and at others’ houses, and I do worry about him. But it’s a friend type worry, and unfortunately all I can do is pray for him. I can understand how he would want to get out of there.

    I do think he genuinely cares about me as well, at least as a friend, because he does not have to talk to me. He gets nothing from me but companionship and advice. He tells me things he says he cannot talk to any other person about. Also, he openly admits that everyone there is very materialistic, and cousin oriented to marriages. I was also shocked when I found out a year and a half ago that he hands over ALL his money to his mother.

    I told him start keeping some, because she doesn’t know how much he makes. It is always different. Well, he did, and she found out, and cried and cried till he was so guilty he decided he couldn’t do it again. So then I told him, have a talk with her and tell her that you want to better yourself and you are going to keep a percentage of it and put it in the bank, otherwise, you will NEVER have anything. Apparently it’s the usual way is to hand everything over to the mother. CRAZY. I would never do that to my child.

    So, he talked to her, and opened a bank account and puts it in but last I knew he had only a dollar in there. Friends and family come knocking all the time with emergencies and needing money. A friend gets in a bike accident, goes to the hospital, and they will not treat him without money upfront. OMG what a place to live. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_sad.gif Sadly, I don’t think he will ever be able to get out of there and escape his family.

  • anabellah

    October 10, 2015

    @baseem,

    Something very, very, very good came from you meeting and befriending your friend. You are now Muslim. Yeah, baby http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_yahoo.gif
    It’s fantastic. We never know why Allah does what He does. He in His infinite Wisdom and Knowledge is the Doer of all things. He is a Doer of what He wills.

    I’m so happy you are Muslim and are here with us. About learning Islam, we couldn’t learn in a lifetime all that there is to know. Take a day at a time, but know that life is short and we’re quickly running out of time.

    About meeting people online to marry, I wouldn’t want to do it. As you said, who knows who is who. I used to watch that show, “Catfish” sometimes. The deceitful ways of some people are unbelievable. It’s crazy.

    Oh, well, it’s 6:50 a.m. where I am. I am going to retire to the boudoir.

  • anabellah

    October 10, 2015

    @baseemah, As Salaamu Alaikum, Sis

    Wow, he really did that? Pretended he wasn’t talking to her any longer because he blocked her on Facebook, but was communicating with her via other social media. It was quite clever of him, indeed. I know you sure are so grateful to Allah that He got you out of a serious relationship with him before you got in too deep. Allah U Akbar!!!

    I find it sooo very interesting that the Pakistani way of life is consistent. So many people keep saying the same thing. They seek out white women and don’t believe in divorce, just to name a couple of things. They try to leave Pakistan by any means necessary, even if they have to charm the ladies in the west and lie to them to take a free ride to get here. It’s all contrary to Islam. Islam only restricts marriage based on whether a person is virtuous or a Believer, besides limiting the number of wives a man may have to four. A Muslim can marry anyone who is a Muslim, regardless of nationality, color race, language etc. A white person is no better than an India, Black, Hispanic, Asian or any one else. They’ve got it so twisted; it isn’t funny.

    Pakistani women need to learn to like themselves. All that putting on “Dark and Lovely” and bleaching cream is very sad. They don’t like the way Allah made them. Allah said He made everyone in perfect proportion. What they are going through reminds me of what African Americans went through years ago. They had to learn to love themselves. Pakistani people have a sad state of affairs.

    It’s good you and he are now just friends. Deal with him with a long stick LOL As you said, thank God it’s over. Allah saved you from a colossal blunder. I don’t question what you said, that there is some crazy stuff going on over there. I can’t imagine it being any crazier than what we’ve already heard here on the blog. sigh

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015

    Ana, I know I wasn’t seeking a husband. We just met at a game website and started talking and it went on from there, over time getting to know each other. I am betting it is very rare that women go online seeking a husband. I think it just happens. Just like that Ashley Madison website, they claimed that the womens’ profiles were mostly all fake. It’s just men spotting lonely women, befriending them. That’s my guess. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif

    I didn’t know anything about Islam before meeting him. He started talking about religion and it sounded so beautiful, and so unlike all the stereotypical things I had heard. Then I began to investigate. And started to learn, and still learning. So I guess you can say that something beautiful did come out of it after all! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif

  • baseema

    October 10, 2015

    Hey Gail, calm down girl! I don’t need saving. I have not been there and I am not ever going there. It was just a LD relationship. As you know, it is very hard for someone from that country to come here. I am not willing to go there, I have heard too much bad stuff. We are only friends now.

    He had barely talked to me for the past year, and then this spring I found out it was because he was talking to an old girlfriend from PK who now lives in the US and is divorcing her husband. He actually told me she was sending him messages last summer and had me log in his facebook and block her. As you might guess, he never uses his facebook. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gif

    I should have known then. That was very clever of him to have me thinking she was blocked and all the while using viber and whatsapp to talk to her! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

    He said he thought it was a way to get here, and also since he is still in love with her, (news to me!) but he said his family would never accept her either because she is not white and she is divorced. However, that plan fell through, and they are no longer talking. At least right now. Who knows.

    I no longer trust him at all. MEN! UGH! I hate secrets and I always told him he could tell me anything at all. But he said later, the reason he kept it secret is because he “didn’t want to destroy my happiness.” http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

    If somehow he ever happens to make it to this country, to live, my eyes are WIDE open. That’s why I said “Fairy Tale.” We are close friends though, and I have encouraged him to marry a cousin if that is what he wants to do. His mom needs a Cinderella. She really does ask him every day about someone. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

    I do care about him, and I believe that he is a good person in a bad situation. Yes he lied. No one is perfect. I have forgiven him, but will never forget. He is more like a brother to me now. He asks my advice and now we talk more honestly. And I am over him, but I do still care about him, but not as I did before. You can fall hard for someone when you spend hours and hours talking to them! I never dreamt it would happen to me, but it did. Thank God it is over.

    Now he talks openly to me. In fact, he just told me the other day he went to a wedding and there was a girl there staring at him the whole time. She was the cousin of the groom. I encouraged him to speak to her and get to know her, but he said that is against ethics and he can’t even tell his friend about it.

    I am really enjoying our “friend” relationship much more. I am 100% sure that is all it will ever be. I know when the next girl comes along, that we won’t be talking, he will be busy, and that is okay. For now, we talk about our families, play games online, and I have fun with him. It is so interesting hearing the goings on in the family. I know everything you say is true Gail. That’s why I questioned Nina. I could write a book about the happenings just in the last few years. There is some crazy stuff going on over there!

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    My wali was telling me that many of the Pakistani people represents unbelievers and they are no different than unbelievers ANYWHERE. He said we just happen to be talking about Pakistani people and the people we speak of our apparently unbelievers.

    He said that Allah tells us to do exactly what Umair have been talking about – INVESTIGATE. Just don’t turn your women over to any body. The question come to my mind that if the Pakistani men are unbelievers and the women who are falling for the okie doke are unbelievers where is the wrong? Unbelievers do what unbelievers do. It’s okay for unbelievers to marry unbelievers.

    Now, on the other hand, the Muslim women who are being bamboozled because they don’t listen to Allah. They don’t investigate. They don’t have representatives. They are just out there on their own, seeking husbands.They fall for any man who says he is Muslim and lays on the charm. They believe anything the man says, as he says what she wants to hear.

    Allah tells the the men not to marry their believing women to any man until the man believes and He says the same about marrying the men to unbelievers. Don’t do it!

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    Umair,

    You are correct in asking where are these western/European women’s representatives? These women are being sent out there like sheep amongst the wolves.

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    I’m beginning to understand the importance of family or a wali being involved in the selection process for a mate. Women tend to only deal with emotions, not logic and the selection process becomes tainted. Once she’s all into her feelings she’s not listening to reason.

  • anabellah

    October 9, 2015

    Umair, As Salamm Alaikum,

    THANK YOU, brother for your post to Kim. I’m just about exhausted from trying to talk sense into people who only want to believe what they want to believe. Is some man talking sweet nothing in a woman’s ear all it takes to get her? It’s all he needs to do to wrap her around his finger? These women don’t realize these are trying times out there for many people, especially for people In impoverished countries. People are doing anything just to put food in their mouths and that of their families. It’s survival of the fittest. When people won’t listen to reason it probably meant for them to learn the hard way. They have to see for themselves. It’s must be their fate.

  • Umair

    October 9, 2015

    Wow,this is new that Pakistani men like black women,well Pakistani like women like Scarlett Johnson,Jessica Alba,Miranda Kerr,Candice Swaponel with beautiful white skin,on top of petite figure with blue big eyes…Now that is a beauty in their eyes of the beholder.Long Blonde/Brunette hair as well to have cute cute babies.@ Gails point of referring back to “Fair & Lovely” cream use by women in Pakistan.Even the black or dark colour Pakistani women are not accepted,with which world do you live in???

    Yes,i agree with Anabelle,with many Muslims converting or turning to Christianity just to get citizienships in Europe,US,Canada,Australia with the good Pakistani guys come to study in Uni.s on their own in Western countries.Pakistani Minorities are very big time liar,this is the non sense,sun sets with you & raise with you or around you is an emotional trap to get the women mentally,as she will fell who is so worthless that someelse has to tell her or priase to her what she wants to listen…Women love to hear their praises(Even FAKE PRAISES) just to get her,men like to see in women(Visual),with men don’t get trapped by FAKE/BOGUS PRAISES.It’s in any culture not in Pakistani culture,like anabellah said before,like every culture their are fortune seeker who will do anything.If you DON’T have anything to eat,what ISLAM or being muslim will do,when the ARAB KIngs are busy in marriage,womenising,gold plated bathrooms,cars???

    Gail has spent a far bit of time in Pakistan,she has the most knowledge with fair & lovely creams used to get white skin.If you did a background or character check,just like in PAKISTAN done before you handover your sister or daughter that what company does or people does he or she for your son have or sits or stands in,drunk,narcotics,gambler,womeniser or go to brothels etc etc.In your case you said that you checked in NY,that his record in not there that he is married or divorced,better check again,because he can have you as a co-wife.If he is a serial LIAR now,you are a good girl/women,run the other way like their is fire in your feet…These humans DON’T care about anyone.Can you let us know,which area(City) of PK does he belongs,as that plays a big role with some parts or cities residents/people are the worst than gutters/sewerage.Trust me!http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

  • anabellah

    October 8, 2015

    I wouldn’t doubt there are a lot of “Muslims” out there claiming to have converted to Christianity due to all the negative publicity that Muslims and Islam are getting. I read that some of the Muslims migrating to Europe have converted to Christianity. What does it really mean?

  • anabellah

    October 8, 2015

    Kim,

    The only thing I could tell you is to run from him like your shoes are on fire. I wouldn’t tell you to take a chance on that man. For what? What good is a man telling you that – You’re his Queen; the sun rise and sets around you; he can’t live without you; and Blah Blah Blah Parrot. What good is sweet talking dialogue? There is not enough sweet talk in the world that would get me to mix up with him with all the warnings out there. Is it worth it – always wondering and suspecting, waiting for the other shoe to drop? If he doesn’t have much substance, is the charm enough for you?

  • kim

    October 8, 2015

    I am involved with a Paki man who says he’s a Christian and he and his family have lived here since he was 20 and he’s now 50. He said they fled Pakistan because of Christian persecution. He mom died in Pakistan, dad died here in the states. Sisters n brothers I am supposed to meet soon and I’m supposed to visit his church soon. I’ve read so many websites like this that I am paranoid. Because I do see some similarities in his over the top charm & wanting to get married too fast. I am an African American woman. I am really into him, but I have my guards up. He’s highly emotional and sensual, but not much else…some things, but not much substance. I did a background check & found there was no public record from his wife he supposedly married & got divorced in NY. I’m waiting to see the divorce papers & meet the family. He swears there’s a lot of paki men who love black women, but in the back of my mind I have a question mark…always.Any this yo force his hand..

  • Gail

    October 7, 2015

    Baseema,

    I am confused are u saying that u know for a fact I assume your fiance is telling u this that his family wants him to marry his cousin.
    Girl listen if this is what u r saying u need to stop LOL and wise up fast and get your head out of the clouds ASAP!
    What he is really telling u by not coming out straight is that he is going to marry this cousin or is already married to her so u better stop laughing and find out more about this cousin and who she is and if u r willing to practice polygamy.Straight up he is using u for a greencard and telling u as much(laughing at u thinking u r an idiot) to be frank(him and his family).
    I will tell u this even if u r ready for Polygamy Pakistani first cousin wives don’t make the best cowives(they hatee and reject polygamy as a culture) and believe me she has the family backing her not u.U r the simpleton idiot they used to get the greencard.U r not family so u need to wise up about your situation because your fairy Tale is about to get REAL real quick! Please wise up and read between the lines he is telling u straight by not telling u him and his families plans to marry that cousin and later on he is going to stress u the Hell out and announce some bullcrap that his family is insisting him to marry that cousin.
    The majority of pakistani people marry their cousins and nothing is going to get in the way of that esp not some white American Whore in their book that goes to a foreign country to marry an unknown man.
    Sorry if I come across hard in my words but I am telling u the G.D honest truth girl.I am also American and I hate seeing my sisters taken advantage up.Please pray about what I have just told u.

  • baseema

    October 6, 2015

    OH Ana, I did not know that about Princess Diana. That is amazing they told her straight out about not accepting her. I was told straight that almost everyone scams there and his family will think he is scamming me, but actually he truly loves me. And only he knows the REAL reason why he wants to marry me. For true love, of course! But it’s all ok (so he says) because his family will accept me because 1. I am white, and 2. I am an American.

    Meanwhile I later found out that they daily (and still do)tried to force him to marry a cousin. LOL! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

    When I read Nina’s post, it was like looking into a mirror. But I hope, for her sake, that everything really IS upfront. I still want to believe in Fairy Tales. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_heart.gif

  • anabellah

    October 5, 2015

    @Ummof4, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I recently watched the movie on Netflix about Princess Diana. The guy whom she was in a relationship with was Pakistani. She went to Pakistan to meet his family. The family let her know straight that they weren’t going to accept her. She wasn’t welcome to marry their son. They didn’t care that she was a “Princess”. They didn’t care what she was other than she was not one of them.

    As we who have read this thread knows, Pakistani people are all about keeping it all in the family. If you aren’t one of them, you aren’t welcome. They don’t can’t if one is a Believer/Muslim or Muslim. If you ain’t Pakistani, you just ain’t anything. Some people just don’t get it. They won’t accept the facts, regardless of what you tell them. They think they are the exception to the rule. They are blinded by desire. It’s why when one comes here thinking she’s got it going on and she the exception to the rule because she’s hot, which she is not LOL I just go with it. I’m not wasting my breath on those who clearly only want to believe what they want to believe. They see only what they want to see. They are blinded by desire.

    Nonetheless, I think it was way nice of you and baseema to reach out to Nina.

  • ummof4

    October 5, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and welcome to all,

    Nina, I hope that you are not being used for immigration. Are you Muslim? If not, just a word to the wise. Most strict, religious Muslim families in Pakistan and around the world do not accept a non-Muslim who is marrying their son with open arms. They may tolerate her, even be nice, but they do not accept her due to the fact that she is not Muslim. Most strict, religious Muslim families want their sons to marry a Muslim woman to carry on Islam in the family. They do not like the thought that their grandchildren could be raised in any religion other than Islam, which will probably happen if the mother is a non-Muslim. I

    Also, from the stories on this blog, being invited to go to Pakistan to meet the family means nothing. The fact that you can afford to go to Pakistan and meet them in person tells them that you have money to spend. Be careful.

    May Allah guide us all to make the best decisions for out lives in this life and the next.

  • baseema

    October 5, 2015

    Hi Nina,

    You sound like you have it all together. But I could have written that same paragraph a few years ago. I know there are nice guys there, but it’s more complicated than that.

    Can I ask, have you met him, and how did you meet him? Are you going to Pakistan? Just curious. I would like to think there is a story like this that is successful. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gif

  • anabellah

    October 4, 2015

    @Nina Persson, Welcome

    Thank you very much for sharing about your life and your thoughts on the matter. The best to you and your as you set out on a life together :-)

  • Nina Persson

    October 4, 2015

    i do agree there are fortune seekers in many countries who would come to US or Europe if they have a chance. There are no smoke without fire and truth is behind the words I read here. I just have to say I am from Sweden and I will marry a man from Pakistan. He is totaly open and honest and give me every prove I need to reduce my doubts. He is hardworking comes from a good family and have money. I am invited to visit his family, and for them being strict Muslims but not narrow I feel even more secure in my choice. They have accepted me as their sons future wife. He is kindhearted and a true humanist, also driven and ambitios. We will start a family. So yes one must be careful, to go into things with open eyes. If you are so inlove that you can’t see clear and close you’re eyes for things that don’t feel right then you’re out in deep water and maybe you need to consult friends and family for advice. We all have responsibilities for ourselves too. If something doesn’t feel alright, it probably isn’t. If it’s too good to be true, it proberbly is.

  • Rachael Lorenz-Stockdale

    September 20, 2015

    i would luv 2 marry a pakistani man. we could eatz garlic nanz 2gether

  • anabellah

    September 14, 2015

    @Gail,

    We’ll said!!!

    Women have a tendency to think that just becuz they are foreign to the Pakistani man that they are special. What makes any woman think she is better than the Pakistani woman? If the Pakistani man treats the Pakistani women like sh!t, he will treat all women the same way. He simply charmes the pants off the foreign woman. When she’s hooked, he lets his true colors show. He reveals himself. It’s a bit too late then. They school those men.

    Sure, Pakistan doesn’t have the exclusive on the scam. Not anyone else from other countries are coming up in hear complaining about their men It’s a Pakistani epidemic.

    Zahra was a fortunate one. I’m glad she’s helping us to educate others.

  • Gail

    September 14, 2015

    Zahra,

    U r doing a great deed to warn other woman about the pitfalls if marrying a Pakistani man.I am very proud of u! I think India men r the same exact way as well as much as I have figured out.I think a general good rule of thumb to go by is if the man is from a poor country be aware be very aware.
    Men r masters at sweet talking woman and woman sadly fall for the man hook line and sinker.Beautiful or ugly woman fall for these cheap tricks.Woman and girls need to be educated.I truly consider this immigration fraud a crime against woman and children.
    I am not saying countries should ban certain countries but education is the key I believe.Not every woman is going to listen and will marry the Pakistani man but at least when he starts acting up she will be aware of whats really going on and will not second guess herself or think something is wrong with her or it is her fault.

  • anabellah

    September 13, 2015

    @ummo f4, Wa Alaikum As Salamm

    It’s no problem. Thank you much for helping, Zahra. Every Muslim needs to have a Holy Quran. It’s our guide to life.

  • ummof4

    September 13, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all

    Zahra and others, an organization that may be able to provide you with free Qur’aans in English and Spanish is

    http://www.whyislam.org or call 1-877-WHYISLAM

    Ana, I hope it’s okay to give out this info.

  • Zahra

    September 13, 2015

    Salaam @ana @ummo

    Yes I do I m guiding all that women we use to say paisanas here like sisters what they are risking and expecting about those men who trying to use the women for scamming on some other countries but my case is mostly plakistan.on whicj other countries it happens ?? Tell me pls cos i donr know.
    @ummo my mothee language is spanish. I also speak english but i think if i could find a place where i can get mt Holy Quran in spanish Or how to get. I ll be so happy and blessed Allah Hafiz

  • anabellah

    September 13, 2015

    @Zahra, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Insha Allah, you could school some of the ladies whom you know are looking for love in all the wrong places (Pakistan).

    A woman only has to research the country, the status of women and their treatment to know what to expect from Pakistani men. Their mentality doesn’t mean change just because they meet a foreign woman.

    As Lynnette stated, women in the West are just full of themselves and self- importance. A woman is a woman. Righteousness makes the difference. The one who is the most righteous is the better one.

  • ummof4

    September 13, 2015

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    Zahra, what language do you want the Qur’aan in? English or Spanish? I say Spanish because I think you said you are Latino. Please correct me if I am wrong.

  • Zahra

    September 13, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum @ana @gail @ummair. And everyone hoping all u doing well.
    How are you gail ? I m including you in my prayings.

    Yesterday i found the embassy finder page of my country with a blog of thousands of girls in my country trying to bring a pakistani here or go there and how … i cant believe why we all are getting involved with this guys in that such amazing grade ! And it is incresing how we latin are more and more interested about find the love of our lives in Pakistan. 10 women from my country sent me email with lots of doubts i gave thm that link cos i cannot be a judge just share my experience with the man i trusted. We like single moms sometimes feel in need of care and love those pakis know it well and also they are charming then who cannot fall in love with someone who gives u the moon and stars and treat women as a queen then passing some time and with the trust all gained he shows themselves their dark side.
    Anyways im happy in peace cos Allah always with me im improving my knowledge. Is sad i dont have Holy Quran in my hands yet but i have App i read Suras i perform salaat i did a good Ramadan month Alhamdulillah and my Duas all the times as my possibilities. cos either there is one thing i fear is just Allah ..my almighty. Allah hafiz

  • anabellah

    September 11, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I’ve learned so much about Pakistan, the culture and the people, and keep learning more and more, the more that I read here. I get very disgusted and sad by what I learn. Islam means the world to me and to think that there is a whole country of people calling themselves Muslims, but have no Islam is disheartening. It’s very sad that the darker complexion people there are left to feel inferior to the lighter ones; the people put bleaching cream all over their faces because they don’t like how Allah has made them (Allah says He created everyone in perfect proportion) and the people considering the darker ones ugly. Islam isn’t supposed to see color, but there is no Islam in many of the people there. Then they wonder why their condition is as it is and there seems to be no hope. Allah doesn’t help people who don’t serve and worship Him. He gives them respite and still provides for them.Their fate on this planet looks very bleak. Right now it appears hopeless for them.

    I’ve learned enough now to know just to focus my attention on educating the foreign women who are about to embark on a marriage to the Pakistani men. To let them know what they should look out for and expect. It’s about all that I can do. Other than it, I don’t have much more to say about Pakistan and the people. Allah tells us to leave people alone and let them be. The saying goes – to you your way and to me mine. I intend to mind my business, otherwise. Allah says don’t grieve over those who have no faith.

  • anabellah

    September 11, 2015

    @Gail,

    I know it is very hard for you right now mentally and all kinds of way, but you’ve got this. You can do it. Divorce is never easy. You’re handling really good, considering. It still is not over till it’s over. No one knows what is in store for us for tomorrow.

    Your children love you and want to help as best they can. No child want to see their mom hurting inside. It sounds you all will be just fine. You have a close nit family and you are all it – a family – wanting to help take care of one another. It is a beautiful thing.

    Some men are stubborn and refuse to sleep elsewhere when there’s a domestic dispute. They are territorial. It’s a manly thing. No one knows what men are up to. It’s best not to focus on them so much. Nothing in life is guaranteed when it comes to man (as in mankind). Only God can be trusted and depended on.

    I’m glad you’re set up in your home the way you like and you are comfortable there. Make sure you get him to pay a decent alimony. You two were married for a good amount of time and he should be required to pay a good amount to help you care for yourself and the children. {{{hugs}}}

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015

    Umair,

    No he is waiting for his dad to leave back to Pakistan in the next few weeks.He refuses to sleep on the couch or go to the garage apt and sleep.We talk only regarding work otherwise not.As far as Pakistani men go my husband is from Pindi and he is light complected and is a very good looking guy to be honest.He has an awesome personality towards others and he has always been very nice to me but he never could give me the time i needed and when i figured out he was mixing up with other woman and stealing stuff I just started hating him inside.I started figuring out he was a con artist and I really screwed up.In the meantime I had found my first love on FB and we reconnected as friends and he started begging me to divorce my husband and marry him.I thought I could make the marriage work/suffer it for the kids sake until they were older but then he started talking about marrying them off to cousins and at that point I decided I need to be very careful because this man is dangerous for not only me but my kids.
    That is why I am concentrating on my health now because I have already had cancer once and I have alot of health problems that make my life difficult.I am thinking these r going to end up being small health issues.I do feel much better these days overhaul.

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015

    Ana,

    It is so hard on me right now mentally but I am not showing it.He refuses to sleep elsewhere.I do keep my distance and his dad is acting like a pr!ck the same as Mari2 mom inlaw was acting.The kids know he is leaving come Jan and they ask me about it and i tell them yes this is correct.My youngest worries about money all the time because we spent so much money on building up r property this season he is upset.
    I told him we will be fine we will work the truck and I will teach him to sell so next season so we can faster.He liked that idea.It’s funny because he knows I am a saver type person and I sometimes think he feeds off my anxiety.
    The kids have nothing to do with the dad or my father inlaw.They r counting down the days until my FIL leaves.I honestly have thought to kick my FIL out of the home but it would cause a huge fight and right now my husband is giving me money that I am saving and it is only 2 or 3 weeks max and he is out of here so I am being patient and saving money.We bought a 3 bedroom mobile that we moved into that is pretty cute and I am satisfied.I am back on my property living in the very back of the property which I am really liking very much.I did splurge and bought new appliances for my house that I totally love.
    Other than the financial situation I will be happy to have them all gone from my life.My middle son is coming up now and will be able to drive come next year and that will help me out alot if I need to have surgeries or just to go get milk and bread from the store.He can change tires and do things that will help me out.
    I really feel we will fine in the long run.I hate my husband for what he has done to me over the years.I really believe he has cheated on me over the years so it makes it much easier.He is not even trying to mix up with me sexually but that is no real shocker since he is mixing up elsewhere which leads me to believe he is up to know good and has been for a long time.I have confronted him about a month back and he said I am wrong but he is chatting with someone on the net and he has his phone close.It really don’t matter at this point because I believe in my mind he is is a proven liar and a thief and I am over it.
    On the flip side I am excited for the future and traveling with my kids and getting more involved in real estate.
    As far as my love life.I have some hopes on that side as well in the future but for right now I am being patient and just waiting to see how my life turns out.

  • Umair

    September 11, 2015

    @Gail,i know you don’t have to tell me,even the ugly cursed dark hair Pakistani girl is treated like that with massive verbal curses as a “Cursed for our family”,even though the mother’s son & sisters brother is ugly as “F..K like worse than “Shrek”Donkey & asks for Miss Universe/World???

    You must have come across a Pakistani like me,you would haven’t gone down that path & ruined your life like that.Listen,it’s hard for anyone to accept other children,even me with already ready made children or bagggage,same goes for women no matter how nice she is.That’s the reason most women stay in PAKISTAN’S Cursed marriage with their lives ruined by their parents by looking at “MONEY” of guy & house of his family,but he is a real Low life or subhuman…

    @Gail,describe how is your husband?Like dark,black,thin,black eyes.I am fair but most men are not like that in PK,as you rightly said.It depends on the area of PK which is a big part,some cities people are just outright Manipulative Subhumans as compared to other cities…That’s why all the wrath of Allah on PK,because their is NO Trait of being a Muslim…

    I can imagine his smile wiped off the face,as soon as you said i hope no one does that to his sister’s daughter or sister,get another girl while his sister is pregnant.All the FAKE HONOUR/DIGNITY will woke up in his sole…Like you did with other person’s daughter…Rest in PK say,GOD do the faith of girl as good as possible(Khuda Beti ke naseeb achay karay),when you marry to a “Sub Human” or Skunks(Alcohol/Drugs),then sorry GOD(ALLAH) can’t do anything as well…Tell me who moved out,did he go to other room or you,because it’s really hard to stay under one roof.All his family in US after getting citizenship?You must have a taunt/jibe”May GOD have good faith of the daughter of your sister or sister,hopefully her husband marry 3-4 women & stick with your sister”!

  • anabellah

    September 11, 2015

    @Gail,

    Here is the link to the other post I wrote you. http://www.polygamy411.com/september-2015-discussions/#comment-9788

    My mom had the same surgery that you will have with the biopsy. Don’t worry. It’s a piece of cake. Insha Allah, stop worrying about going under anesthesia. It’s when a person worry that the person have problems. Don’t be morbid and think about going under or you just may do it LOL 6 feet. I’m sorry Gail; I had to do it LO

    I talked to my mom today, but totally forgot to ask her what they determine was the problem. She had those excruciating pains the same as you. Insha Allah, I will try to reach her tomorrow. My mom is always on the go, so it’s difficult for me to catch up with her sometimes. The woman still dates, if you can believe it. She’s 79 years old.

    She didn’t have her gallbladder removed. Two of my sisters did though, but it was years and years ago.

    Gail, I was wondering how you were going to make out living in the house with him now. It has to be agonizing. I wouldn’t suggest you move into the garage. The heck with that. He’d have to go into the garage before I would. I’m no attorney, but I remember something about leaving the marital residence and it not being good for your case. You need to stay put and try to distance yourself from him as much as possible, somehow.

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015

    Umair,

    When I went to Pakistan I was light brown hair and blue eyes and everyone just made the biggest fuss over me.One thing funny though they seen my freckles and asked me if i had a disease.I died laughing and had to explain fair skin white people have freckles.
    My sister inlaw that is half black and half white that flat told me she is ugly as sin.I was shocked they were so abusive in there words toward her.

  • Gail

    September 11, 2015

    Ana,

    No I didn’t see that post about your mom.I am curious if she had gastritis.I assume u would know if she had her gallbladder removed.I don’t know what these pains are but it is rough because mine go up in my chest.If u find out let me know.I have to go for my first procedure Monday to check my gallbladder function then on thursday I go for the stomach biopsy and scope.I am worried because I do have to be put under.My husband is getting worse.I have to figure something out because I can’t live this way all winter with him this way.I may have to move out to my garage apartment the children and I.I refuse to live this way.
    I will admit I was bad today but boy did it feel good to be bad.lol
    He was all happy and told me that his sister had her baby it was a girl.Well I seen my shot so I took it and said Oh dang another girl she better be careful popping out so many girls or her husband is going to get a second wife.Man he lost his smile real fast.I looked at him and said is it not right they desire boys over girls and he gave me a go to H@ll look and said no.Needless to say I stated giggling inside and laughing.It felt good to drag him under the bus like he did me with the kids.His dad was standing there and heard every word I said,Needless to say his dad is also not talking to me.lol

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar,

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam. I’m so happy that you decided not to go to Pakistan to marry your now ex-intended. Alhumdulliah. I have a feeling it’s one of the best thing you could ever have done.

    You weren’t being silly. As you said, you are in love. Love makes us do crazy things. You aren’t alone. Anyone who has ever been in love should know how it is. It’s okay. I’m glad you you stuck it out with us, as we could be a tough bunch to get along with. I know I can be. I never meant to hurt you. You are my sister-in-faith.

    You’re welcome to stay here with us. If you just want to talk about anything, we’re here for you {{{hugs}}}

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 10, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum .
    I m white blonde honey eyes im skinni mini and tall but who cares my appereance if i proudly hide by my hijab and clothes cos i no need to show just my kind heart to others. The pakistaní men average are black skin and i love it thin and big eyes…as my x but behind a pretty face there are lots of things i never found before in noone : he madw me feel like i was the only woman in the world…. by the way i left the idea of coming to pakistan at least not with him.. hugs and blessings for everyone thank God yoy write to me I throwed my dumb idea about he really loved me and accepted me As it seemed. Sorry for be so silly but i was really in love and still.. should move on ..thank you all Allah hafiz

  • Umair

    September 10, 2015

    Na again few other points are not correct in conclusion of the analysis.

    As White colour is the ultimate colour with blue eyes with like a big deal to get a girl of blonde hair & blue eyes.Haven’t GAIL mentioned how much “Fair & Lovely” used by women in Pakistan?Even fair girls in Pakistan are off very high demand with long stature,even dull colour which is known as “Sanwali” in Urdu in Pakistani language or black colour girl with no beauty is rejected on her face,same goes for men,women look same thing with no beard,clean shave men with NO SMELL…So everyone looks what is good for him/her.A big factor is children which will be UGLY as F…. Hell from the dull colour ugly women(You have to get the psych or mentality of Pakistani families),there is no offence in that every one wants best for themselves…The white or fair Pakistani tall girl marry within seconds,even mothers want a daughter in laws like that,if she has good face & good character(What else do you want)?You have hit the jackpot or in paradise on earth,will groom or raise children well…

    Yes,even myself children are the job of women as raising is her job,with so much financial issues,men have to work can’t raise children now…This is too much,if you are asking that…WOMEN usually work,so it’s expected that they will be available to children everytime or school meetings.Now the things are getting so expensive,that both hands to push the household,if she says i was like this at my parents,well either bring from parents or work with me.It is a sign of respect to NOT let her work,she is given money as pocket money & get the shopping done by husbands(IF THEY ARE GOOD),if they are BAD(SHE IS TIED & TRAPPED IN MARRIAGE)….

    People are avoiding buying EID Meat for Qurbani,due to pig,donkey,dog,dead animals meat in the supply chain in Lahore for sure with govt. stamps from slaughter houses,which we have shut down big time but the mentality is big time…Why Lahore?,because it sell for more with expensive prices than other cities,so lentils or vegetables are looked for EID.People have stopped eating from high end restuarents,all done by “Ayesha Mumtaz” name in everyone’s mind,she is in the MEN DOMAIN,usually it’s the man who is the DG or Head of “Punjab Food Authority”,reason being is that when you go to SHUT DOWN these businesses,there is firing or cross firing,so Ayesha has to go back with men can cope with firing big time with the area hear the noises of AK-47.

    Zahra,if you are dying to go to PK,go to bigger cities(Lahore,Islamabad,Karachi) with someone male of your family(Brother,Father) etc etc…One more thing is wrong mentioned on the forum,a married uncle type mature man of 40’s/50’s as divorcee will marry women who is divorcee,but sometimes he even asks to have a virgin girl,but that is like “Small face,big talk”…Bachelors will ask that,who hadn’t put mouth here & there,mostly men,in few cases there are women.Yes if some beautiful white blondie girl & blue eyes is set,it’s a big thing and i will tell the whole city of Lahore & family like Mirranda Kerr,Jessica Alba,Scarlett Johonson,Angelina Jolie,Emily Ratwoski(Sorry can’t remember precise name),Candice Swapnel etc etc..This is a big deal in that country,you white guys are looking to get “TAN”,with Pakistani people are looking to get white day by day(What you don’t have got,mind is always curious).If you are cute Hispanic that’s fine as well,Jennifer Lopez.But the best is the beautiful blue eyes blondie girl is the one tried the best to set…Search on You Tube,Social media now a days even setting foot in the country now a days…

    You know & i know how children of Muslims are who are married to White girls for Citizenship/Nationality with the children going in mini mini tiny tiny clothes,with father does nothing….On the passports,ID cards it’s writeen “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”,but there is not much ISLAMIC,it’s just hypocrisy…Have Gail or anyone seen Mujras which are done in Lahore or Farm house parties in PK?

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    Gail,

    It will be interesting to see what becomes of your husband. A person can’t do dirt to other people and think it won’t come back to bite him in the @$$. It’s just crazy. I see the same thing happening with you and Mari2. Now, your husband is making plans to move himself and his parents away from you. I see clearly that all of it is not Islam in any sense of the word.

    Stay strong. I know it’s a difficult time for you. Try to focus on your health and getting better. It’s what’s important now. I agree with you that stress plays a huge part in a person’s health. What one eats is a major factor, as well. I’m hopeful all will go well for you with your surgeries. I don’t know if you had seen an earlier post I wrote to you. I mentioned that about a couple months ago my mom had the same surgery that you will have. They put her under, checked her stomach and did a biopsy. The results came back good for her. She was having those pains that you were having and once had to go to the Emergency room due to it. I don’t know what more the doctor said to her. I suppose I should ask. Insha Allah, I’ll call her later today.

  • Gail

    September 10, 2015

    Spirited,

    Hey how r u? I am doing fine just trying not to dwell on things to much and go with the flow.I am concentrating on my health right now.
    I don’t know but I just have given up even wanting to try anymore.I don’t feel all the negative feedback I get from him is worth it anymore.I don’t know what my future holds for my children and I but I am sure we will be fine.I actually feel we r going to be more happy because we will not be dragged down by my husband and his insanity anymore.

  • Gail

    September 10, 2015

    Ana,

    Yes I have yet to see a Pakistani man be a good stepfather.In all honesty they r not eve good fathers because they r always so busy working they never have time to spend quality time with there kids they just let their wives handle the kids.
    As far as my own husband I have never considered him a good father much less a good stepfather to my oldest son.My oldest son I will admit is a hard kid to love always has been but my husband made no effort ever to help that kid.He never minds taking his parents anywhere they need to go feed them etc.. but he has no problem to ignore his children.I don’t know I swear I do not get it.All I do know is that his parents are going to die and he is going to try to go sit with the kids and they r going to blow him off in the future this is what I do know.
    I predict he will have to remarry in the future just to get attention because his children and I will have moved on with our lives without him.

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    ***Important Message***

    Umair and Gail had brought up a very, very good and important point that I need to elaborate on. Gail said most Pakistani males do not make good step-fathers. Umair said Pakistani men don’t want the baggage of a ready made family (some other man’s children). He said it’s pretty much universal. Furthermore, we’ve all heard the stories of children who are abused by step-fathers, foster parents and others as well.

    It’s a prime example of what the Ayah (verse) in the Quran means when Allah says if a man can’t be fair, then marry only one. He is talking about justice and fairness to the orphans. Most Muslim don’t know the meaning of the ayah and/or don’t want to know it. Those, especially, who dislike polygamy don’t want to accept the true meaning of the ayah. They want to hold on the the erroneous meaning to support their dislike of polygamy, and try to prevent men from becoming polygamous.

    A man can love more than one woman easily. It’s not difficult for him. It’s no big deal. It doesn’t work the same way with children. A man knows before he ever commits to a marriage to a woman who already has children by another man/men whether he could love those children or not. He knows whether he likes children. He knows whether he would like or not like the woman’s orphan children. It’s easy to know before a marriage takes place. The children without their biological father with them are considered orphans.

    In a case such as with Pakistani men who follow culture that says the man is to marry a virgin, he knows he wants no part of another man’s child. He knows neither he or his family will accept the woman children by another man/men. The ayah would apply to him. He is not to marry that woman with children by another man. He is to marry only the woman who has his children or has no children at all.

    I’m glad the subject came up. Those who can see and not blinded by desire understand the ayah. Those who Allah does not guide, won’t understand the ayah, but find something crooked in it. The ayah does not refer to a man being fair and just with women otherwise he is to marry only one. It is NOT the meaning. It pertains to the ORPHANS. People are to be fair, just and kind with EVERYONE, if the person doesn’t fight you for them about their faith ( the other is the aggressors). Special emphasis is placed on justice to orphans. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was an orphan.

  • anabellah

    September 10, 2015

    @Spirited,

    Thank you for telling us about the problem that your cousin encountered and about the meat being sold as fresh, but was carrion. The charging foreigners higher prices than the natives is something common in other countries such as Egypt and Morocco, as well, so I’ve heard. It all falls under the ayat in the Holy Quran. We are instructed to give fair weight and measure. So much wrong exist in the world today. Allah says it exist to see who is best in conduct. He already know who is. He knows everything before we were even born. He created us. Only we are the ones who don’t know.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    Hey, Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam my friend,

    I’m so happy you stopped in and spoke to Zahra. I was thinking of you and hoping you would.

    @Zahra,

    Spirited is Pakistani, straight up and pure Pakistani, but a good breed… If you don’t listen to her, of all people, you’re kooku in the head to put it mildly.

  • Spirited

    September 9, 2015

    Salaam guys,

    Just popping in, I haven’t had much of a point where I could add anything useful lately :)

    @Gail, sorry to hear about your latest news, but if you’re good with it, then more power to ya.

    @Zahra, I have to agree with the other ladies warning you. You said he told you all of his family is waiting for you to get them out of there. That should be a big blinking warning right there. They only want to use you. It isn’t worth it. You can visit Pakistan some other time, with some other people. By the way, most people there, NOT ALL, but most only seem hospitable in videos and stuff because they want your foreign money $$$$$$.

    I have a good story about that. One of my cousins doesn’t look Pakistani, but he is. He went to a store and immediately the guys at the store started talking about telling him higher prices for the things because he must be foreign and they can get more money out of him. They thought he couldn’t understand them. He understood everything they said. He pretended he didn’t know the language and asked them things in English to see what kind of prices they tell him. He knew the acceptable rates for the items he asked about. Then after they told him jacked up prices, he started yelling at them in Urdu and they were embarrassed. Probably only embarrassed about not catching an actual foreigner (instead of being embarrassed about being lying scum). Also, there has been alot of disturbing news about carrion meat being sold as fresh meat, as well as donkey and horse meat being sold as cow or lamb in Pakistan, so if you went alone, you wouldn’t know where it is safe to buy food from. Even cooking oil was found to be sourced from dead animals not too long ago at one place in the country.

    No morals. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif

    Talk to guys later.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Gail,

    When I first read what Ummof4 wrote that she knows some white people who would like to be black and vice versa, I thought it was the first I had heard anything like it (a white wanting to be black). Now thinking about it, it’s probably the white youths who act like blacks, talk like them, dress like them and walk like them. It’s a “cool” thing. You’ve probably seen the white ones with the pants hanging off their @$$es with their underwear showing. It’s like the white people who try to grow dreadlocks and it’s a hot mess. They need to cut that crap out cuz it one hideous sight. There are people who wished to be other than what they are.

  • Gail

    September 9, 2015

    Ana,

    I read Zarha’s Post I feel she is to much emotionally invested and is going to end up going to marry this boy.I hate to see it happen but for sure we have warned her and she will repent later on.Some people just have to go through stuff like u said it may be written for her to through this hell.It is true Pakistani people have this strange thing for white skin.I would never have believed it had I not saw it for myself.To me that is like a white person wanting to be black seems A$$ Backwards to me but what do I know.lol

    Zarha,

    I have one serious question for u because from the way u r talking u come across as u r emotionally invested in this boy and he has toyed with u enough that u believe his lies.
    I want to know all bullcrap aside are u going to accept polygamy in the future because I am telling u clear u better get ready sister.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar,

    The last non-white person who was thinking about marrying a Pakistani man, said said to Gail, “I’m not white, but I’m very beautiful”. Gail responded by saying, “I don’t care how beautiful you are, you are not the right color?” ROFLMAO I got a good laugh out of that one.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I never once thought that you are ugly. I believe you are probably very beautiful. Latino women are some very exotic and pretty women. I’m sure he thinks you are all that. I’m sure you’re very loving and caring. To still consider him after all you’ve heard, you have got to be that. He may very well have some love in his heart for you. Love doesn’t matter when it comes to his family. They are about family and keeping everything in the family. The way we view love, they don’t. When his mother tells him to jump, he’ll ask, how high? They live and die for their mother and family. It’s not about you. It’s the part of the picture that you do not see.

    I’m sorry, if he kills himself, it’s his problem and a huge one that he’ll face in the Hereafter. Umair said something about the Pakistani woman (if I understood correctly). She would have responded by asking, what are you waiting for – when he said he was going to kill himself. Do you really want to be with a pathetic person that threatens to off himself whenever he doesn’t get what he wants? I’m not feeling anything in my heart for him, so it’s easy for me to say – let him do it.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 9, 2015

    Salaam Ana.. yes a the things you wrote are the harsh and cold true.. i was trying just to believe hes differnt and he could make the difference about pakistanies with me. Yes i am Latin and not ugly i m lovable caring then i thought my virtues could matter for him. My only and last big fear is about he could him herself and send me some vide or pics could shocked on me about him hurting i m weak about i dont know can i manage it in the worst of the cases he commit suicide as he said. I left him 2 weeks ago but he still looking for me as mad despite i cutted all the ways of contact. For me one year is a life maybe for him i was some green bills just Allah knows.. gi I feel like a granma now with the lines you wrote and so sad cos i m not virgin but what can i do he met me that way. :( I really thought he was really interested in my person and the way i behave but i totally agree with all whst u kindly write and im so thankful.im just finding a way for run away and dissapear from him without being much hurted.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    Oh, Zahra Gujar, I forgot to mention the other thing you’ve got going against you. You are 29 years old. He is 23. In the U.S. you are still considered young. In Pakistan, you are consider OLD. You are just about past the age of marriage in their eyes. Add that with the list of all else going against you, what do you have in your favor? The only thing you’ve got is that you love him and he pretends to love you. He love you for money…

    I’m sorry for being so harsh. It seems it’s the only language you may truly understand.

  • anabellah

    September 9, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I feel for the guy. I feel for him for what he’s going through and what his family is putting him through. It is very, very sad. I don’t feel for him enough to tell you to go be his and his families meal ticket out of Pakistan. It’s crazy. You’ve read the stories on this blog. You’ve spoken to our dear Gail here who has lived it. Her husband used her for citizenship. I didn’t want to believe it and still don’t. He is divorcing her and has put her on notice. He is out of there the first of the new year. She has a biological son with the man. She adopted his son that he had with the ex-wife. She has his and the ex-wife’s daughter. She has a son from a previous marriage, as well. She devoted 12 years of her life to the man. He’s now going to throw her out like a piece of trash. It’s one thing for a marriage to simply not work due to incompatibility and such. It’s another to have someone straight up use you for material gain and discard you like rubbish.

    Umair is Pakistani. He let you know that no Pakistani man wants a woman who is not a virgin. No Pakistani man wants any other man’s kids. The Pakistani’s don’t respect any woman who comes to Pakistan to get with a Pakistani man. It’s not their culture/way of life. It’s not what women are expected to do there. He and Gail have said the people there laugh at women who send the men money. You are Hispanic. You are not even the white – the type that they want. You are nothing more than Money Pile What more do you need to hear???

    I tell you what. GO! Perhaps it’s what was written for you. Maybe it’s the life you are meant to live. You can’t heed warning. Live it and learn it.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 9, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum Ummair Ana Gail and everyone peace be upon you marie..
    I have been reading all the post and following all your advises but i cannot finish to understan my x fiance.
    Yesterday he called me and show me he booked the ticket for going to pakistan. My ticket and i just stayed speechless. He said if u dont come my family will kill me and i asked to him: why you like crazy wanting I go to pakistam ? How you get the money for my tour and I think Is not Allah s plan I think you are forcing everything.. he replied: MY ALL FAMILY KNOWS YOU ARE MY BRIGHT FUTURE and each day my family in pakistan becomes more poor.. i started crying asking myself how i felt on it. Why I have been enrolled on it and why my heart was so fool and blind due our relation. He demanding me i must get some money for my tour but he alreday knows i have modest salary i m not rich. But i have enough for kids and expenses.
    I watched lot of videos about pakistan im not scare of people seems to me are very hospitalary kind and nice i could die either i go but in other circumstances. With nice people or alone but seems is very weird and dangerous for western woman also traveling alone.im in love with the Punjab the biryani roti lassi the big truck decorated wow i Love Pakistan but i dont like liars and cheater people. And indeed if i dont come there he will kill himself because all punjab knows he will marry a western who will change the life of each family member rather im simple single woman with a big heart full of dreams but also fears like currently i cant trust noone no more. I would liked to visit Pakistan as tourist with blessed and trustable people.: Allah Hafiz

  • Gail

    September 9, 2015

    Umair,

    Yes I am 44 to be exact and have been married 12 yrs to my Pakistani husband.I have pretty much seen every trick in the Pakistani book at this point.I have lived off and on over the years and visited Pakistan many times in between.The longest I have lived in Pakistan was 2 years but it was long enough and of course we always come and go and live there 3 or 4 months during winter months.It has been 3 yrs since I have been there and I have no intentions to ever set foot back in Pakistan until my children are grown and married adults.I truly do not even want my children mixing up with Pakistan at all to be frank with the exception of my excowife.I don’t mind and even encourage them to visit with her in the future but I am teaching them all that glitters is not gold and all 5 fingers are the same when it comes to Pakistan so they will understand and know the truth and not just believe what people spew out of their mouths about them.In other words don’t believe all the BS because they have value being USA citizens and don’t get hooked on sweet words so they don’t get trapped.Education is the best way to fix this problem in my opinion.
    My husband has let it be known he is leaving me come the first of the year and I should get ready.My mentality is why wait get to stepping now.I am so much at peace with my life and so happy to be moving on with my children.
    As far as Ashad he can think what he wants I really don’t care.I have live in a joint Pakistani family here in USA and in Pakistan for the past 12 yrs I am no longer naive and understand everything.I am on a mission to protect my kids from getting trapped.Just today we were studying racism in America and I told my children it goes on all over the world.I told my daughter Syed Men marrying their daughters to only other Syed men is a form of Racism.I told her straight we must never stand for Racism and my son.I also told them people r simple and do not see it as racism but it is and it is silly.I told them straight let people do what they r doing u just say your peace and stay on your track and never look back at those people.They r better than that.

  • Umair

    September 8, 2015

    @ Zahra,i have read your post but you are not the smartest with any men can manipulate or used.This is what they say to Pakistani girls,but they are smart & say go ahead today instead of Friday…Mostly the suicide is done,when a women betray him & marry someone else by her parents sake or honour.He hangs himself with the fan,with rope in the neck…Still that is HARAM in Islam,leaving his family to mourn & cry.That mentality rises from there,”If you are NOT mine,you are NOT of anyone”…Psychotic level love triats…

    @ Gail,i agree with you too.You looks like you are in 40’s with seen significant or enough Pakistani culture the hard way should i say?You are absolutely right for Zahra,make a decision either go ahead & learn the hard way,because i don’t see 23 yrs old even 53 yrs old man can accept your children as his own,it has nothing to do with Pakistani OR Forget it & never mention again.I know it’s hard but needs to be done.

    Yes Gail is also right,the amount of Harrasment in Pakistan of other women who are not in Family is beyond anything with NO WOMEN can go alone even at day time…PAKISTAN as an individual level very honourable/dignified nation(Your own sisters/mothers),but collectively about others sisters/mothers it’s the most “BASTARD” nation to be honest…That’s why Stray men are NOT allowed & vetted very quickly irrespective of sweet talking,polite demenour snakes are filtered or checked in character checks & background checks of the Mr.Nice guy Prince Charming…It is all mirage or fraud.

    In Pakistan,thinking is same as “Arshad”,i read his comment but waiting for you “Gail” to comment or Ana,with young girls & boys are NOT spared,had it NOT been the FEAR(TERROR) of honour killings or killings of the Stray Dog type men,it will be rampant on the roads in broad daylight,just see or have you read the incident in Saudi Arabia of women harrased by mob of men on EID in Makkah,as if they just came out shopping,with all men charged…This is all on top in the society to save honour & dignity but if go a bit deep inside,the most hypocrite people with every thing in offices,cars,parks,houses but open they are going to be caught with severe consequences…Boys do go after girls like a dog,with her way to school/college/Uni./Workplace is a hell if she is using public transport(Bus.Rickshaw,Van) etc.This makes Pakistani very Frustrating with looking porn on the internet & cable Hollywood/Bollywood channel & outside it’s Burqa Galore or you CAN’T do anything with getting set takes atleast 35-40 yrs…Now a days everything can be seen…Arshad,these women have been ruined or used for PR(Immigration),as soon as their husbands get the Citizenship,the very day he will divorce them or USED them,this was rampant before now these people are getting wise…Citizenship of such countries US/UK/AUS/CAN the good countries they use to be in 80’s,90’s.

    Note:I just want to add,that it would be better if you can see or video chat with people.

  • anabellah

    September 8, 2015

    I wasn’t sure what point Arshed Mahmood was trying to make. The article states what some of those men are doing. He speaks of why the Pakistani men are good for Western women. The thing is those men don’t do what Arshed said when in the West. I’ve known all the women married to those men to work. None of what he said refute the fact of what we know some of them do.

    Gail made a good point about the massive Gay problem that exist in Pakistan. They won’t mess with the girl’s, but have no problem banging the boys for relief. Then the women get stuck marrying one of them – I suppose. Perhaps a western woman would meet one of them online.

  • Gail

    September 8, 2015

    Arshed Mahmood,

    Are u trying to say that American and other foreign woman are cheap so it is ok to use them for immigration and divorce them then bring their Pakistani wife and kids to USA because it sure came across that way in your post.
    I want to clearly say u r delusional if u r going to sit here and pretend like Pakistan is so Saintly when I know for a fact that kids r mixing up in Pakistan esp… the boys.What u think Pakistani teenagers don’t want sex and they r not out walking behind the girls day dreaming of sexing them?Is it not a fact that so many young boys and teen boys are doing gay sex because they can’t get a girl?U are very quick to point blame at Americans.
    Pakistani people are flat out liars and cheaters the majority of them and would not know the truth if it slapped them in the face yet somehow u can write a post that somehow justifies Pakistani culture over American culture.
    We may have alot wrong in American culture but one thing I can say as compared to Pakistan USA people are very straight forward for the most part are still straightforward people.
    When u try to compare Pakistan culture to American culture u r trying to compare Apples to oranges because believe u me if the kids were not terrified of getting killed the boys would be all over the girls same like USA.

  • Marie

    September 8, 2015

    Arshed mahmood

    Id just like to comment on one of your points. you said “your” muslim women do not work and rule the home like a queen. Its a shame your culture, wrongfully does not allow women to work. sooner or later you are going to contradict yourself, because when your wife or sister gives birth, the first thing your going to want is a woman to help her, When your wife or sister has a medical problem that requires her expose an area that should be covered, your going to want a woman to help her. your culture rule of woman not working HARMS women, not helps them. You do not want your Women to work, study or leave the home and then expect them to teach the children, deliver babies, take care of medical problems and in case’s where a woman husband has died or is too lazy be the breadwinner. All this without an education or a job.

    @All, these are just examples, a woman may want to work just because she wants to. just proving a point.

  • anabellah

    September 8, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I agree with you that some reverts/converts to Islam did their research to know Islam and understand it. It took me some time to realize and understand that many Muslims born in countries with a large population of Muslims or considered Muslim countries have people who were born of Muslim parents; the children took on the religion in that they say they are Muslim, but don’t know their religion based on the Holy Quran. They learned the culture of the people and country, but didn’t take the time to read the Quran and learn it.

    What happens is many reverts/converts just assumed, as I did, that anyone who says they are Muslim learned and knows what is in the Quran. Some reverts/converts get mislead as a result of following born Muslims and learn “culture”. I learned some stuff after I converted/reverted that was wrong and contradictory to what is in the Holy Quran. I had to unlearn it as I have to unlearn some of the culture I grew up with.

    There are Muslims that are reverts/converts that never read and learned the Quran either. They rely on others to tell them what Islam is about. Some think it’s simply wearing certain clothing and talking the talk (a few Arabic words and phrases) and certain etiquette they picked up. Who knows how often they offer their salat (prayers). Some people have told people that I know that they only offer salat at Friday Jumah prayer or during the Holy month of Ramadan or anytime the mood strikes them. It’s not surprising, as Allah swt said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that there would come a time when the Muslims would neglect prayer and follow lusts (wants, desires, wishes).

    “But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-” Quran: Surah 19, Ayah 59

  • Gail

    September 8, 2015

    Umair,

    I read your post and agree

  • Gail

    September 8, 2015

    Zahra,

    I hope for your sake u see this little $h!t for what he is now.He is just trying to manipulate u and u r buying into it hook line and sinker.Say u go there and marry him then he pulls this crap again in the future or is truly mentally unstable and hurts one of your kids.The writing is very clear that he is still very immature and is stupid for lack of a better word.
    It is not your fault he went around telling everyone like a dumb A$$ that he hooked a foreign woman and she is coming to immigrate/marry him.
    Again I am telling u straight make your mind either marry the idiot or cut him off.U got to get off the fence.
    Don’t ever feel sorry for someone that tries to manipulate u with sinfulness.That is the worse thing u could ever do.

  • anabellah

    September 7, 2015

    @Arshed Mahmood, Hello

    Thank you very much for your post. I’m sorry but I don’t understand how anything that you said in your post have anything to do with the topic of this thread. This thread is about Pakistani men who manipulate and con women in Western countries to marry them so they can gain citizenship and care for their families in Pakistan. They lie to the foreign wife and says he has no wife in Pakistan when he does or he goes back to Pakistan and marry a women there who is usually his cousin, making him a polygamous. He never let his foreign wife know about the marriage or he does, but had never informed her of his intent to marry another. The Pakistani men usually marry non-Muslim women who aren’t aware of what polygamy is or certainly doesn’t expect him to ever live it. Some swear that they aren’t married and would never engage in polygamy, but they lie. Most intend to do nothing but get what they can from the foreign wife for his and his family’s benefit. Many times they end up divorcing the foreign wife once they receive citizenship and move the Muslim wife and their families to the Unite States or whichever country it is. They are manipulative,con artist, lying, deceitful people preying on others who aren’t aware of the Pakistani culture. So, based on it, I don’t know how what you said has anything to do with it. If you are saying that Pakistani men are good people and make good husband, I’m sure there may be some, but from what we hear here, they are far and few between. They are the exception to the rule.

  • Arshed Mahmood

    September 7, 2015

    Hi
    The introduction of Pakistanis, you have made in your article, is not true. The picture is other way arround.
    Let’s face the reality of western man or woman in now a days society. An average youth of 10 to 12 years of age have at least one girl or boy friend in this tender age. It seems to be legel in your view, but in every sense it is in approperiate.
    So they start kissing, hugging or even penetrating without having a legal relation with him/her i.e marriage ( your legel rights only permit boys or girls to get married when they are 16 with parents consent and 18 without parent consent). In fact, they are already living as husband and wife since childhood. As they grow, they change their partner more frequently. Sometime, they have children even without marriage. SO radomly, a teeager girls get fuced off many times in this tender age. If girls has new born during this time, then boy if off the road and she has to suffer all alone (specially emotional stress).
    Many of your mature man or woman have many girls friends or boyfriends at the same time with and they do not mind till they reach at the age of maturity and then they realized that what they were doing, was wrong and now he/she has to get marry to live in remaining years.
    In Islam, a muslim is not allowed to have girlfriend or boyfriend and even not allowed any premaritial relationship. Why…….. for the follwoing reasons.
    (1): Islam considers the developement of society on purity, mutual respect and responsibility.
    (2): Islam considers the verginity of both man and woman very sacred and important and due to this reason, when couples get marry, they value and respect each other from the heart. WHY? because they are sured that each of them is pured and non of them is ever touch by other man/woman.
    (3): When any human being obey his/her creator rules, he/She is given special satisfection through devine blessing which is only sent to hearts by ONE GOD and to those who do not associate or ascribe any partner to him.
    (4): When man marries a woman, he takes responsibility to take care of her in all aspects. This is reason our muslim woman do not go to work and rule at home like queen.
    (5): Man is only allowed to marry other women if he has means to support her and also if he could do the justic between the both. Same condition applied when he marries upto 4. If man does not have mean to support, then one is sufficient for him.
    (6): Reason for establishing justice is that ON THE DAY OF JUSDGMENT they has to render his/her account how did he/she lived his/her life in this world.
    (7): Women is not allowed to have multiple husbands at the same time, because how would she know that the preganacy she is having belongs to which husband.

    The above are few of the many reasons that a muslim specially pakistani husband is more suitable to a western lady due to the fact that he will take of her responsibility and rule the home like a queen.

  • anabellah

    September 7, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam

    He’s trying to manipulate you. I believe he is telling the truth about the dishonor and all, but he’s just going to have to deal with it. You would be foolish to fly off to Pakistan to marry the man when you know that he is not right for you and your children. He would continue to try to control your life should you marry him. Nothing he talks about is about you and for you and the good of your children. It’s all about him.

    Allah tells us not to kill ourselves. It means don’t commit suicide. Some people get it twisted and think it means not to smoke a cigarette because the person will get cancer and die. SMH It’s not what it means.

    If a person commits suicide the person will go to the Hell Fire. The person who blows himself and others up, thinking he will go to Paradise and have 100 horrines (maidens) there was lied to by the person who told him to do it. The suicide bomber is going to the Hell Fire. No and, or, buts, ifs about it.

    Anyhow, getting back to your ex-intended. Let him kill himself. I know it’s sounds cold and harsh. Nonetheless, it’s not your problem. His problem is he is rebellious when it comes to Allah and doesn’t believe that there is a Hell Fire.

    Even if you were to marry him, what type of life do you expect to have with him? He is all about himself and no one else – other than his family. Would his family rather see him dead than to accept that you won’t marry him? Don’t make it your problem.

    Allah decides all things. Allah, before we were born, determined how when and how we will die. If your ex-intended is meant to off himself, there is nothing you could do to prevent it. Don’t put this on you. You don’t have the power to prevent his death. Remind him what Allah says about killing ourselves. If he doesn’t listen and commits Hara Kiri, so be it. Say your goodbye to him now, just in case. :-(

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 7, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum dear all !
    How are you ? I hope u fine.
    Yesterday my x fiance told me if u dont come to pakistan i will do wrong with me. I said whaat ?? He said i commit suicide.. zara you have just 3 days to find the way for coming.. you are ashaming my honour here with all my people..find the way for come otherwise friday is my last day i life. I was crying all night confused i no need nobody death and i feel so guilty noe he feels betrayed cos i said him im not going to pakistan. I havent any doubt he could hurt himself cos hes mad .. i told him : i put all in Allah s hand then he replied: i have 40000 dlls for pay ur ticket you have no choice you should come…. now i just wanna dissapear from earth…:( Allah Hafiz

  • Umair

    September 7, 2015

    @Annabel,yes Islam is just of name of fool people in Pakiland.The people who are reverted/converted are better muslims than born/granted muslims as they have done effort to understand ISLAM & done research to revert to ISLAM.

    Yes,Gail it’s really hard to stay with indoors,one reason they don’t get a separate house,you are absolutely right,son is the money for the mother or security as there is no social security in PK.Did your husband beat you,but what was the reason?Did you try to tell the Law Enforcement Authority(LEA’s_)

    Did you divorce your husband?When did you marry the faithful year?Don’t marry your children off to cousins,if they are not good.

    One more thing i want to make clear,it’s not only men’s background checks for character checks non other as you have to live with person,but not with the money or property or any thing with the result with acid throwing in extreme cases,beating & other cases even parents their daughter to have a beautiful life.

    So,it;s NOT only men but women Character checks,is she a S..T”???How many men she has gone out & how is her family are they skunk family???Is she wear BURQA outside but go inside wear mini dress,smoke,drink,narcotics(character checks) from neighbours,work place,where she go,whom she sits & stands with as is company of her friends???Which society she sits & stands & mingles???As there is massive marriage frauds in PK,so they prefer to marry in family,atleast you have better idea of the men & women as has been the cases before…Even my mother prefer a known girl for me,if she does who we have seen growing up,know her parents/family/background.

    Don’t think that every Pakistani men is bad or devil,just like any where there are good & bad people!http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gifhttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gifhttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gifhttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

  • Gail

    September 7, 2015

    Ana,

    Yes exactly.I hate liars and had he been honest upfront it would have saved me alot of grief.As u know in our culture we don’t have this idea to check people out and do a huge background check on the man and his family.Normally people marry someone they went to school with.If people do background checks on others here in USA I never have heard of it so it did not come in my mind that time.I think now that is why I don’t want to remarry as i find it impossible to tell a good egg from a bad egg plus all that romantic crap Western Gem is talking sounds nice but it is not worth for anything.It don’t feed my kids or pay for their college education or make them properties.I need those things in my life not words that come a dime a dozen.

  • Gail

    September 7, 2015

    Umair,

    I don’t have a problem with the people it is the culture.I know that Pakistani people love deeply I am not denying that at all but the love they have is not worth for in my opinion because they have to jump through so many more hoops and their love is contingent on so many variables.For example say a boy and girl do a real love marriage but then the girl does not get along with her MIL but they live joint family and the girl wants to move and get their own home.Obviously the inlaws are going to B@tch and say that girl is B@tch and start verbally attacking her and beating her if she stands up to much.Where is her husbands love and protection that time see my point? That suicide love is just misguided feelings that don’t really work in Pakistani society since the younger generation is so stuck under the older generation in my opinion.
    Pakistani children are not raised to be free as u well know they r raised to obey parents and live under their parents.
    I believe u can respect your parents without having them rule your life.Here in USA in the white culture parents raise their children to 18 then they set them free to make their own life choices.If the child needs to talk the parents are there to give their opinion but it is only their opinion the adult child is always free to choose his own way be it right or wrong.This is totally opposite from Pakistan where personal freedom of choice is just not an option.
    I am sure I do come across bitter because I have lived Pakistani lifestyle for so many years and I have fought my husband on these topics.
    I have told him straight I don’t live under anyone and my kids r free etc… instead of saying ok he says my kids and r atheist like he has the keys to heaven.

  • anabellah

    September 6, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    It’s good to hear you are seeing more clearly now. Alhumdulliah. It seems to me that Allah is protecting you. You would have made the mistake of a lifetime if you had gone to Pakiland to marry that boy. All he’s thinking about is getting his toys. You’ve got two kids already. You don’t need a grown one.

    You see now that he’s not an appreciative individual and he’s rude. Umair said some of them beat their women. I don’t think you’re looking for a beating.Head Smack You sound to be a sane young lady.

    It’s beautiful that you give in charity regularly and have taught your children to do so, as well. Insha Allah, continue to do what you’re doing close at home here, near you. Ummof4 gave us some excellent examples of ways to give. Alhumdulliah.

    You’ve got a good heart. Ask Allah to give you the best mate for you – one who is righteous and pious who will know to treat you with kindness and equity, so you could live together in peace and tranquility.

    You should feel so good about yourself. You’re doing really good. Keep up the good work http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif

  • anabellah

    September 6, 2015

    @Umair,

    I’m just shaking my head. The more I hear of some Pakistani men, the worse it sounds. Now, I’m hearing it’s not uncommon for the men to commit suicide when rejected or feeling betrayed by women. Suicide is a huge sin. Is there ANY Islam in Pakiland?

    I’d imagine Gail is “bitter” about Pakistani men, especially as she is married to one. I think she’s a lot more than “bitter”. Her husband is now talking divorce at a time when she needs his support more when she is tackling medical issues. He’s got his citizenship and his dad who lives with them here in the U.S. is soon to have his. Their children are nearing the age of marriage and he’s thinking of marrying them off to their cousins. If I understand correctly, his sister was married to his ex-wife’s brother. His breakup with the ex-wife affected his sister’s marriage, resulting in her divorce. Gail, correct me, please, if I got it twisted. I’m wondering if Gail and the husband divorce, will he go back and get the ex-wife (cousin) to help bring his sister and her husband (ex-co-wife’s brother) back together. It’s all about family for Pakistani people.

    I know how Gail must feel. I’m sure she thinks she’s spent a lot of useless years with the man – for what? So, you ask, if she’s “bitter”. I think it goes deeper than it. I think it’s more like Swearing Rage

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 6, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum dear all and thanks for write..
    I had decided to not senf any cent plus to him no more. I feel weird when i do and he not even tell me a simple: thank. I know if i give from heart and nothing expecting in return but is the truth : he feels me like I SHOULD do each each time hes in need. Is so sad very very sad i had enrolled in a relation where i just seeking atention hes just seeking money. But i really felt inlove and thats why that is so hard to me. Btw i do Zakat everyday and teach my kids to do that you cant imagine how my children enjoy help others here despite we are not rich Alhamdulillah food never left in our table..
    My fiance knows it but he does not care what i do hes not interesting in Islam much at least not with me. Hes struggling any coast for bring me to pakistan asking loans to relatives doing pressure on me for going there but i lost the faith on that..

  • ummof4

    September 6, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Zahra, please take the advice of those of us who want the best for you and your children. Give your sadaqah to those who are close to you– the poor, the homeless, those who are asking for assistance. You can investigate them and their needs and there will be no Western Union fee to send them money. When my organization gives out money, we make out a check or money order to whom the money is owed-landlord, gas&electric company, car payments, etc. If the person says they need food, we give them a gift card to their local supermarket, if they need gas money, we buy them a gas card, if they need a bus pass, we buy them a bus pass. We do not give out cash, because unfortunately some people are not honest.

    I don’t expect individuals to have applications and checks and balances like an organization, but do check people out. If you don’t want to do that then give your sadaqah to a local social service organization that does check people out before giving them assistance.

    Giving sadaqah (charity) is an important part of Islaam, so we should all give as much as we can afford to give.

  • Umair

    September 6, 2015

    @ Gail,you seem very bitter about Pakistani men,it depends which area of Pakistan he is from,or which city that is a huge factor or humangous factor in deciding.Pakistani men do suicide from top of the buildings if they don’t get the girl,they are real genuine likes the girl.Personally me & few of the guys i know DON’T even take the money for the coffee when we get out with the girl.It’s hugely dependent on men’s family background.Karachi and other cities are the worst cities,with the reason in cousin marriages,as there are huge frauds outside of marriage with the person pretends to show something else,but infact is something else within Pakistan.Atleast in family closed knit collective system you are familiar with your cousin,her past affairs,whom she goes out,whom she contact,whom she meet,whom she interacts with female friends(What type are they) who come to our house as company,are the “S’ or pious good girls whose company will astray her or him in case of men.So these men who gets rejected in PAKISTAN are accepted by Foriegn women without going to Pakistan.This is their equal mistakes,within Pakistan a guys & girls character checks very stringent whom s/he sit & stands or what company from neighbours(More than 1),For a men,character test from his circle where he sits/stands or works,is he a skank(Drugs/Alcohol),Womenising,treat his mother or sister will give a good indicator how he will treat his future wife.PAKISTANI looks poor but they are very cunning & smart,as Western countries people are very straight forward.Where they get this cunningness to survive in the society or country.

    Yes,Marie is right set a charity or social welfare account,because they will laughing off behind you.That’s why if people are dying on roads or slums no one helps.If he is from poor family,you(ZAHRA) is her green card(US PASSPORT),if you are that into love,just ask him i am revoking my US Nationality(Citizenship),then see the fun???People in Pakistan live for their families,he will come first easy way instead of going through Student/Working Visa whatever is the class of labour visa in US now,PR he will go straight to citizenship.Then lay the base for his family to come & do the REAL MARRIAGE in Pakistan with Pakistani girl.These cases i have heard with my ears so many times,but that was with Christian(Non Muslims) women,they can even convert to Christianity to get the asylum,refuge or citizenship direct(Hala loya),look at in Europe where Refugees converting to Christianity just to get asylum/citizenship,when their Muslim brothers in GULF(ARAB) didn’t help at all but big slogans of “Ummah” are being heard…

    @Zahra,it’s common sense,a 23 yrs old a married with a buggage(Children) is too much for him to handle,even if he wants to…A God Fearing old men will except someone’s else children,same goes for women.NO ONE DOES,NO ONE WILL..Infront of the spouse(Husband or Wife),they will be very nice but beat behind their back in PK…Even for me in my 30’s women with buggage/luggage is too much,as i don’t have children if i get ready made children,will be hard for me no matter how much i try to compromise or get the marriage work,even mother is torn btw her children & other husband whom she is going to be with,if they are too intimate in lounge or dining room,what if the children comes up?This will never happen with a “VIRGIN” girl or 1st marriage???Then his family is an integral part,look at the big picture with future.

    @ Gail,is right that either go to Pakistan with some male companion and marry him,tell us what happened after that or just forget it how hard it is as women can become emotionally attached with their praises or good words.Don’t stay on the fence or two minds.Mind you are there are those Pakistani men who have done suicide after the betrayal from girl,girl doesn’t care in Pakistan(Look at newspapers in Pakistan) with the title”Failure in love make him jump from the building”..So PAKISTANI OR FORIENG WOMEN DO BETRAY PAKISTANI MEN…There are some really good Pakistani men,not all are as opportunisitc!Thank you!

  • Gail

    September 6, 2015

    Zahra,

    It is time to let it go.All these men talk the same exact way I promise u.You would swear they have a PHD in kissing A$$ and making a women feel like she is the only women for him.
    Listen girl I am going to tell u frankly stop being on the fence about this either go to Pakistan and marry him and find out the hard way what I and everyone is telling u was the truth or cut him off and move on.U can’t stay on the fence just make your mind and do that thing.

  • anabellah

    September 5, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar. Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I agree It is time for you to move on. The best way is to cut all ties with him. Insha Allah, don’t give him any more money. Give it to sudaqah (charity) to those close to you where you live who you can investigate. Make him history.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 5, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum and peace be upon you. I m so confused a lot why a man could be a great actor when hes wanting something desesperatly. My paki x fiance waa the sweetest man i evee met in my all life . No one treated me and love me that way ever. I trusted him blinded cos he sounds real and in love with me. Rather his youngest than me im much innocent with ppl and life than him. You aaskede if we used to talk about Islam. Is sad but he never use to guide me or share some about the precious thing in life Allah gaves to everyone. Islam. I dont know if hes a good muslim yet but i cannot judge just Allah cos hes watching everything but my x uses lots of rudes and when i m not online of busy he uses abuse on me and then he forgets and come to be kind with me. He has very bad attitude towars people who make him anger but not with me at all. He tried to be patient but indeed hes the man who controls my life . How i wear where i go hes always caring me and if by chance i m not online for few hours he calls my mom my cousins and uncle for asking where is his wife. He was very lovable really i dont know if hes lying or not but i will never forget those days together in distance it was like s dream i thought was true… I had forgive him Hes i my prayings i wanted to marry him i really dreamt with that one day but now is time for move on..Allah Hafiz

  • Gail

    September 5, 2015

    Mari2,

    Yes of course!My husband deals both his parents because I refuse to do it but still I do so much like cook and clean the home etc…Well come next season he has a rude wake up call coming because he is going to have deal that RED HOT MESS all by himself.I kid u not I am done with it and I am telling u the truth I have no interest to take him back ever since he is a package deal.
    I hope they all choke on their American Pie dream as for me I am focusing on me and my kids and getting healthy with some traveling involved.

  • Gail

    September 5, 2015

    Didi,

    U are so correct they are nothing but money whores and that is the truth in it.
    I died laughing when u said they except anything by heart and to send via western union.LOL It is so true!! It’s crocodile tears they shed and believe u me their friends list is full of woman.I am very certain Zahra is not the only woman he is trying to swindle money out of.This is game they play and nothing more as most of us women who have mixed up with these Paki guys know all to well.

  • didi

    September 4, 2015

    Dear Zahra,
    Paki man seems melancholy, because they keep sending sad or sweet picture. But we never know how rude they are, until we meet face to face. Paki boy who keep calling me, never ask for money . But he is crying when his laptop and mobile are broken. That ridiculous for me. Last time he ask me about brthday present from me . he directly says that he accept everything sent by heart and tell me to send with western union.. so he expecting for money.All i want to say is please dont be fooled or misguided.
    They tend to manipulatif .
    If still you want to help, you can do like Marie said.

    http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_smile.gif

  • Marie

    September 3, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, wa alaykum asalaam.

    Is there a way you could be charitable towards them without them knowing it was you. Like do you have an address you could send the money to or bank details where you could make an over the counter deposit. That way they couldn’t expect or ask you for more if they never knew it was you.

    You sound like such a sweetheart and I hope Allah sends a wonderful Muslim husband your way.http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_heart.gif

  • anabellah

    September 3, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You’d be a cold heart person, if you didn’t feel anything for your ex-fiance, their family and their condition. It’s kind of you to want to continue to help them out financially. Whether you should do it or not is something you will need to figure out. We are supposed to be charitable. There is no doubt that he and his family are probably in need just based on the country they live in. What does their faith level seem to be to you? Do you and he discuss Islam? Do you talk about Allah swt?

    I won’t tell you not to help him or his family out financially. I believe in charity, as it is a HUGE part of our religion (Islam). Allah rewards us manifold for being charitable. Anything we spend with Allah in mind is repaid to us. Allah, in the Holy Quran, says don’t be niggardly (stingy), nor encourage others to be that way. Therefore, I certainly will not tell you to not help them. If you have some extra money (and it doesn’t have to be a lot – anything. Every little bit helps) to spare, I see no wrong in you continuing to help them. Ask Allah what you should do, and follow the inspiration that you get from Him. It’s the best that I can tell you.

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 3, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum dear all !
    @anabellah ! I really appreciatte your words and your kindly way for care about all us I proud to have this blog where i found relieved and thankful to everyone who showed me the truth about thst men. I really cannot believe was true.
    Today my x fiance paki boy sent me pics of him crying he said hes very ill and I felt broken to see him in that way. I felt so sad cos he said he wants to die and he and his family are suffering poverty days. I said to him im so sorry for that and pray my Allah hes merciful he knows everything but i cant help cos im poor noeafays indeed. I was about to offer him some money for his family but i stopped thinking is a big mistake about me i want to help everyone cos my Allah rewards my charity. I feel so confused if this family are really in need and how can i help them how can i manage it ? I feel in charge of them asking myself if everything is real or still the scamming.
    We came in that life without nothing then we will leave that world same empty hands. I dont know what to do. Still helping him or cold heart leave all. How can i realize hes telling the truth .. hes not demanding money anyways. But i just want to help….asalam o Aleikum

  • anabellah

    September 2, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam :-)

    Although you are very sad now and hurting, you must make yourself see that you are doing the best thing for you and your children by not being with that man any longer. You have your parents and your friends who love you and are there with you. Some people don’t have it.

    You have to think logically when making intentions that affects your children. Gail and Umair are so right; the 23 year old man could not be a good step-parent to your children. He’s just a little past being a child himself. Add coming to a new country to be with you, along with your children it could be overwhelming for him. He’d have to adjust to a new environment, to marriage, to you, and your children in tow. An instant ready made family is a lot to put on a 23 year old. There are many step-dads that abuse children that are not theirs.

    Zahra Gujar, thank Allah much that He allowed you to pay attention to what appears to be His signs. I truly believe He is protecting you by letting you see the truth in the matter before it was too late and you did yourself a huge injustice. I think you are a good person and I’m sure you are a very good mother to your children.

    Allah could give you a man that is worthy of having you – a man who would treat you well and help you take good care of your children. Be patient, persevere and pray. Allah is with the patient. You’re going to be okay. Stay strong. Try not to think of him. Don’t entertain thoughts of him in your head, as they are the whispers of Satan.

  • anabellah

    September 1, 2015

    @RiRa, As Salaamu Alaikum

    You sound so much better. I’m so happy you decided not to go to Pakistan. I’m thankful that Jasmina shared her story with us. We all feel desperate some time or another and take drastic measures or try to. We live and learn from our mistakes. Sometime we can learn from others when we listen.

    Yes, Insha Allah, stay away from Pakistani men the Indian ones too. It’s best, as you said, that you don’t get involved in another relationship right away. Sometimes jumping into another relationship is all about transferring the feeling that you had for the other person onto the new. You need time to heal. Use the time to work on you and your relationship with Allah swt.

    I know you are very sad, hurt and in pain. Of course you are. You will get better. This too shall pass. It’s best you move on because you can have so much more and much better. I know you are angry with him and want revenge. Let Allah deal with Him. Remember Allah sees and Knows all things. Your husband has a lot to answer for. You are a good woman. It’s your time to turn to Allah and get yourself right with Him. Allah could send you a husband way better than the one you’ve got now. You must believe it. If you don’t believe Allah will do it and give it to you, why should He? We have to BELIEVE. It’s what believers do. I pray that you don’t go back to that man. Take a page out of Jasmina’s story…

  • Gail

    September 1, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    Don’t feel sad because u r going to get better than what u r thinking.
    Had u married this man u would have missed out on the man Allah created for u.
    Soo no worries I pray that u will not be single long.I am curious are there any good men in your country where u can meet them?
    I think u really need to verbally put it out there that u r looking for marriage to a good man.I would try to pick a man from your country because they r easier to investigate and make sure it is not a fraud.Just leave the Pakistani guy alone.I am very thankful u did not fly to Pakistan.Thanks G.D for that! U seem to be a great mother who cares for your children and put them first as a good mother does.G.D Bless u and stay strong!!

  • Gail

    September 1, 2015

    Jasmina,

    I read your story and your story is the same like mine in many ways.I will give u some advice U need to get up in your husbands face straight up and tell him if he touches the baby again u will kick his ass off.U have to show no fear and I mean it girl.If u u show fear or act like u will back down and cower they will run over u.
    Tell him straight u will call the police.If u allow him to hit the baby now it will only get worse as the child gets older.My husband was very cruel to his son when he was a baby(my 13 yr old) I can not tell u how many times I had to come between my husband and my son.He was also really cruel at times with my 20 year old when he was 9 and 10 twisting his arm on a few occasions.I flat got up in my husbands face and slapped him right in the face and punched him and told him if he ever touched the children again I would call the police myself.
    Well long story short in Pakistan I have witnessed them punching and beating the hell out of brothers and each other and cousins.Even he told me his dad tied him and brother up to a tree when they were kids for leaving school and beat the hell out of them.Now I am not against spanking a child but beating the hell out of them I am against that and I have made it clear to my husband and inlaws they r not to touch my children.
    Jasmina I worry your husband is going to also going to say he wants a cousin marriage for your children.Are u willing to marry them to a cousin>

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 1, 2015

    Please excuse my typos but im writing fast in mobile in my break time Allah Hafiz

  • Zahra Gujar

    September 1, 2015

    Asalam o aleikum how are you everyone ? Allah bless you.
    I cutted all contact to my ex bf since 1 week ago. It really hurts how we both ignore each other so bad and noone write to each other again rather i am busy in my job and with my kids and family i dont know how hes going he told me thousand times i was his life and he cannot leave without me. One day he told me he could murder for me..was we cut all contact becos i wrote him a letter with al my fears and doubts he left on me about that ridiculous relation when i am who love more and i feeling like going down. I thought it was real love but when i made him know i know everything he wanted from me he dissapeared suddenly without explanation avoiding my fears and pains about our marriage.
    I have pakistani Viss in my hands my flight would be on september 15th but now is all over Alhamdulillah !! I came to this blog and unmask that sad reality. I talked with m y Wali he also said to me you are wrong dont run into your desires your feak husband is not real !! He uses a lot of bad words in Pashtum language to others and rudes ! You will suffer a hell with him.. he said to me : hes a Shia but very far from Allah and hrs a evil follower. I cried a lot watching my itinerary my Visas my luggage almost ready for travel to the place of my feak prince . Castles on the air. I cant stop crying dissapointed all the money time and love i spent with him no matter to me. Im crying happy cos my Allah showed me the right path and i didnt leave my wonderful country and people following a scamming. I have no words for thanks to Anabellah Gail Ummr and all people who keep ofg the scarf from my eyes and im stiml here watching tv talking with my friends playing with my kids and my parents next to me despite i am totally broken and alone but i learned a big lesson. May Allah heal me and help me throwing all memories Cos i feel so underpressure and sad. I just need my Allah with me. Fee Imaan Allah :(

  • RiRa

    September 1, 2015

    @Gail,
    Yaa Sure, I will consider for your advises.. And it’s a very big lesson for me to know people from that country eventhough not all people like that.. But i will be more careful and ofcourse i dont want to make new relationship with other man from that place or any other place right now..
    @Jasmina,
    I can imagine your feeling at that time, your experience make me thinking and inspire me to be stronger.. That’s true what @Anabellah sayying, it’s really helpful and mean alot for me as consideration and not doing silly things and doing something with emotional only. What you’re sayying are correct who want to be in these kind of marriage life with that kind of person.. I never expected this would be happened in my life. But Allah gv me this kind of life and I want to fight for this. The only reason why I still want to be with my husband is not only because of love him much, But also I dont accept being treated like what he and family did. Im so much upset. If I know this before married i will not accept when he propose me, or if he told me before leaving will not let him go back before everything is safe for us. I hope Allah will always help me and hug me whenever I’m feeling sad.. Im not ready and dont want to find other man or start new relationship with someone else. im really scare to start.. How if i meet someone that is worst than him, it doesnt mean I dont believe in Allah im just scared. And its not easy also for me to make a new relationship n fall in love with somebody..

    And also may be all of you have more years experiences than me.. That’s why it makes me wow, speechless.. How strong you are. Im thinking Can I through all of these.. Im just 1 year married with him, still dont have enough experience and still so much in love.. That’s why sometimes im still thinking some silly things. But from all you said i will learn and take it as my consideration. Thank you All,, may Allah alwyas protect & guide all of us :)

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @jasmina, As Salaamu Alaikum :-)

    It was very nice and thoughtful of you to share with RiRa your story. I’m sure it was not only helpful to her, but many. It means a lot.

    I know you are at a very uncomfortable, uneasy place now in your life. It’s not good when a person fears the one who he or she loves, the one person who she or is should feel safe and secure with. It could be about that time for you to seriously think about transitioning, moving away from the marriage. You have to be strong and turn all your attention to Allah, so He will help you, and make the transition easy for you, if it is good for you and your son.

    Insha Allah, begin to make an exit plan. Think about where you could go and who could possibly help you. Perhaps you’ll be able to save some money, if you have access to any. If any thing, get your mind prepared for taking your child and leaving the marriage. You have to be methodical. Whatever you do, don’t let him know that you are thinking about leaving him. Don’t let on at all that it something you might do. You want to keep you and your son safe. Many times men become more violent once they know the woman is thinking about leaving them. If you have free legal aid where you live, try to go see an attorney who could let you know how you could secure custody of your son, so your husband doesn’t take him from you. You don’t want him to take your son and leave the country or maybe it’s you who needs to leave the country with your son. I don’t know what country you live in. You know what you need to do.

    The most important thing is that you make sure you’re doing your part in worshiping Allah. Make sure you remember Him all the time, as much as you can. Make sure you’re doing all your five daily prayers with sincerity. Make sure you are aware of each and every word you say in the salat, and what it means.

    I have to run now. I wrote this quickly, but I had been meaning to get here to write to you. Stay strong. You will be okay {{{hugs}}} We’re here for you whenever you want to talk about anything at all. It doesn’t have to be your situation.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @Gail,

    I’m not against “Arrange Marriages” either. I think they have a time and place. I think as long as the people who are going to marry really want it and agree to it willingly without force or coersion, it’s okay. Take “Spirited”, for instance, she had an arranged marriage. It was acceptable to her. She said if she divorces, she wouldn’t mind another one. I worked with an Indian guy. He was very pleasant, cute, short guy in his early twenties. He went back to India to marry in an arranged marriage. He took leave from work for a month. He was very happy about his marriage being arranged. I could see the joy and happiness on his face. He lit up when he talked about it. Those type of marriage are cool when done without force or restricting who one could marry based on race and nationality

    I am against how they do it in Pakistan, with all these cousin marriages to keep the money in the family and not allowing them to marry other than their own nationality. I think it goes against Islam. Allah says in the Quran that we are one brotherhood. He says that he created us of all colors and languages so that we will love one another not despised one another. Any Muslim should be able to marry any Muslim on the Globe because we are all one brotherhood. No Muslim should be seen as different except for the most righteous one is the better one. It’s the significant difference.

    We’ve heard here of Pakistani men who marry other than Pakistanis, but they keep those wives as secret or those wives are considered inferior to their Pakistani wives. It’s wrong. No one should be forced to marry without their consent either. These Pakistan men marry who their parents say marry. I don’t know if there are many who don’t want it. If they go along with it, then they should be man enough to accept the responsibility of it. They need to remain married to that one woman and not mess around with others who they know good and darn well their family and culture doesn’t accept. If they know their culture and family don’t believe in and accept polygamy, they should stay monogamous. No, but they instead (the greedy buggers) marry whom their parents say marry, sneak off and marry someone not of their nationality and many times not of their religion and help wreck and ruin the persons’ lives. It is what so totally jacked up about it. Look what RiRa is going through. To marry someone for their own personal gain, and then dump the person after he gets what he want is so sickening to me.

    Gail, I think you’re doing the right thing by not forcing your children to marry their cousins. Break that cycle. Nip it in the bud. I could see it getting really ugly between your husband and you about it, but you just have to fight it out. Has his parents said anything to you about it? I’d suspect they’re all for it.

    Below, I put the link to a video that I really like by Khalid Latif. I had it on the original version of the blog. It may be on this blog some place, as well. I can’t recall.

  • jasmina

    August 31, 2015

    sallam RiRa that sounds so awful what you are going through. I went through something similar years ago when I found myself in a situation where my rights were taken from me as a wife. I felt so powerless and the feeling of shame, degradation and worthlessness were enough to drive me to be clinically depressed for 2 years. It is a terrible thing for a woman to experience particularly because as young Muslim women we are chaste and in many ways innocent and when something as hurtful as this happens we feel betrayed and as you say oppressed. I know that you have a strong feeling to demand your rights and for him to man up and be responsible for his mistakes and do as he should as a husband. I did as well.

    In hindsight I really wish I ran as fast as I could as soon as possible instead of sitting there trying to get my rights. I tell you I did not get my rights and my husband abandoned me for years and divorced me, I think mainly because I did stupid stuff like what you are trying to do by going there uninvited. I know that when that feeling of desperation comes we can really do silly things without thinking. Anyhow I always loved my husband and I am the lucky one in that he came back for me and we are married now…. I will tell you it’s not great. Love isn’t enough to keep a marriage strong, there is so much more to it and for starters you want a man that you can trust and that will be proud to tell the world you are his wife and will fight with nail and teeth for you because he loves you. THat’s not your husband, that was not my husband either. He was a coward and did as his family wanted. He is good with his time now but too little too late.

    OK so let’s assume that you decided to stay and fight for your rights… he will try to persuade his other wife and who knows how long that will take, he will visit you when he can maybe if you are lucky, he will tell you beautiful words of love and you will hold a long distance relationship. In the mean while you have to live like a single woman, your depression will probably increase, you will feel lonely… for 6 months or maybe years. Allahualem

    So then assume that he finally after many years does come around and decides it’s time to let you be his wife because his family allow him to live with you. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE WITH SOMEONE who lied to you, dogged you, is a coward and just broke everything that should keep a marriage strong? Trust me he does this now, he will most likely always do something similar to varying degrees, perhaps not as bad but nevertheless will abuse the relationship just as he is doing now. Do you want children to this man, do you want him influencing your kids? Believe me, you will always have problems allahualem, for starters you may forgive him but you will probably not forget and if you are anything like me then his betrayal will hurt you for a long time and it will affect your marriage.

    I’m just saying that even if he does come around, do you really want someone of that type of character as a husband. You do not have your rights at present, I would see it as a blessing as it’s solid grounds to demand a divorce and just move on.

    However if you really want to fight for this and live an average life with a husband whom you will probably always have problems with and be unhappy for a very long time then fight for it but do it right. By doing it right I mean, do it according to your husband’s terms without upsetting him. Let him see that you are a strong woman who has you on his side. Don’t mess with her or his family. You can tell them your story, believe me they will twist everything you say to him to turn him against you. Been there done that. Or perhaps give an ultimatum and see how much he is willing to do for you. Whatever you do, if you are going to fight for it, make sure that you come out winning in the next could of months. Don’t wait years in the hopes he will give you his rights, you will regret it.

    My husband and I loved each other so much. We met since we were kids and fell in love and have always been the best of friends. Trust me our bond was unbreakable and we were the example… what a joke… all it took was for his parents to find a girl from his culture and he dropped me quicker than you could blink even though we were married, and are married now… love just isn’t enough.

    Anyhow we are happy now sometimes, but the past haunts me everyday and I can’t be happy. He met our son when he was a toddler so hardly knows him and doesn’t do much to build a bond. He woke up the other night wanting to go potty and my husband flicked him 5 times on the face and slapped him a few times on the face (not hard but enough to hear it) all because our son would not stop staring at him. well he stares at him mainly in fear. i tried talking to my husband about it and asked him why he is so mean to him and he said that it’s because he acts like a girl because i don’t know how to raise boys and so he needs to toughen him up. I got upset and he told me to get out of his face before he cracks my skull open. I feel very intimidated now and I just want to leave, I really don’t know why I even went back to him, I don’t know what I was expecting from someone who dogged me once before. I wish I had of moved on to someone with better character. I guess I wanted to reunite our little family and for my son to have his father. But our marriage sucks to say the least. I hate being here now.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015

    RiRa,

    Just consider what I am saying to u and don’t go to Pakistan and never go alone.
    Also please do not mix up with Pakistani men in the future and take this as a hard lesson learned.
    Men will act like they love u and romance u etc.. and u will swear it is the real deal but what I have learned over the years is never let emotions be swayed by logic.We have a saying here in USA if it “If it looks like a duck and it Quacks like a duck IT”S A DUCK. “If it looks like a Pakistani man and it smells like a Pakistani man IT”S A PAKISTANI MAN” Don’t go near it.
    Go on youtube and educate yourself on Pakistani culture.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015

    Ana,

    It really is like Lot and his people live there.I knew this was all going on there as my husband explained things to me years ago.I am so Thankful I kept my children close to me all these years and protected their innocence.
    Don’t get me wrong my children know there are sick people out there in this world like murders,abusers,gays etc… They r very well educated but until they are grown I am happy to stay by their sides keeping them protected.I have no sincere interest to ever go back to Pakistan in the future or at least until all my children are married here in USA.I see it like this I didn’t suffer my life to pull them out of Pakistan and raise them just for them to marry back in that environment.I raised them to be free and make their own life choices.I know that this may very well cause my own divorce in the next few yrs because I and the children will stand against my husband and I am prepared for this but I feel very strongly that G.D will protect my children.I do want to say I am not against Arranged marriages I even told my husband to find decent Pakistani families that have mixed children here in USA the same as us.Like a white mom Pakistani dad and I would be willing to listen but he only wants his way so this will be a breaking point between us.He has never been for the family unit only his agendas and truly it is going to backfire on him with the kids in the future although he seems to think it won’t.

  • RiRa

    August 31, 2015

    @Anabellah & Gail,

    Thank you for all of your sugestions, advices and understanding.. I will do my best as I can, but I promise to think many many times befor take any actions and of course pray to Allah for everything.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    Wow, I mean, it’s like Lot (Lut’s) people are all up in Pakistan. Afghanistan has got the same problem with men doing boys. I think it’s disgusting. Only a sick person would want to go up in that area of the body for pleasure. The thought of it makes me want to barf.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    Gail ,

    I’m with you 100%. It appears she is fighting a loosing battle. I think she is sh!t out of luck. She can’t even get her foot in the door over there. It’s as though he simply gave her the boot, kicked her to the curb, threw her under the bus and just left her out in the cold. In your situation, you had leverage. You had the upperhand. She has nada, nothing, not a leg to stand on. It always pay to keep the upperhand.

    I think she and he only worked in China. She does not live there. I get the feeling she is from a country that is similar. I think she’s being cautious in not disclosing the country . When you said Pakistanis do not want to live in China, something about it made me laugh. I wouldn’t want to live in China for all the tea in China.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015

    Ana,

    I saw that documentary the other night and it really hit home to me.This is not something that goes on just at the bus stops at the documentary portrayed.It goes on all throughout Pakistani society.It starts out as young boys going through puberty.All the Pakistani boys can do is just watch girls going to and from school they r never allowed to talk to the girls they can only stare and hope the girl will smile back at them.They live in a fantasy world which we here in the west can not truly grasp because girls and boys r free here to have little boyfriends and girlfriends.To this day though I am very confused as to how these Muslim countries produce so many gay and bisexual men because here in the west our grandparents generation was not sexually active and it was frowned upon before marriage.They only thing I can think of that might make a difference is that they were allowed to socialize with the opposite sex.I don’t know the whole thing disgust me to be frank.
    Also these Pakistani males are very much into porn as well.I think it pretty much leads the world in watching porn.I don’t know what the answers are to fix these problems but I do know that this gay and bisexual behavior is running rampant there.

  • Gail

    August 31, 2015

    Ana,

    As far as RiRa goes I personally think she should go to a divorce lawyer and file but the problem is RiRa don’t want to divorce him so in her case it seems she wants to fight to try to keep her marriage and that is ok as well.I understand where she is coming from because I myself am a fighter.I fought with my husband and his family and secured my place as his wife and I even managed to get him to get rid of his first wife. Now in saying all this was it worth for?No it was not and I was lucky because I have a biological son with my husband and I adopted his son from his first marriage and I adopted his daughter.My husband had alot to loose if I filed divorce and left him to be frank.
    He only kept me because of the kids not out of some misguided love because these people do nothing for love but instead for family relations.
    Do I think RiRa has a chance to save her marriage? Since her cowife has called her and called her names it is obvious her cowife is never going to accept her.When I told Rira to talk with her cowife I thought maybe she could offer her cowife something in essence strike a deal with her but the problem is that RiRa lives in China and Pakistani people don’t have desire to live in China.Now if RiRa lived in Europe then u can say she has more bargaining power with the cowife and inlaws.China is right next door to Pakistan so nothing grand in that plus wages in china are not like Europe so she really has no bargaining power as I see it.
    I did not know until the last post that RiRa has spoken to her cowife so it looks like she is fighting a loosing battle with the cowife.All that is left is to appeal to her inlaws but she has already said they want him to divorce her so it is not looking good.
    I am never against anyone trying to fight for their marriage but yeah for sure in this case it looks like she is fighting a loosing battle.Unless her husband stands up for her which I doubt the chicken $h!t will she will need to file divorce and move on with her life and remember in the future that all that glitters is not gold.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @Gail,

    Last night, I watched the full documentary, “Pakistan, the Hidden Shame”. How sad the many children (boys) sexually abused and subjected to HIV (AIDS). The men say they can’t take their own wives out because people would stare. Therefore, they swing out with the boys, date them and have sex with them or use them as prostitutes. All the while they stone, beat, kill, and throw acid in the faces of women. As Sabrina stated, a double standard exists. They make a woman seem worthless and wrong, when they, themselves the abuser,s are the worthless and wrong ones.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @RiRa,

    You need to just leave him alone. He has let you know he is trying to deal with his family and his other wife. He’s not worth your time and trouble.

  • anabellah

    August 31, 2015

    @RiRa, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I know you are hurting and are in a lot of pain. I feel very badly for you. I know you love your husband. You must understand that you should not go there. Your husband has let you know that if you go there, he will have problems. You now know that he has another wife and she is not at all happy about the situation. Gail has let you know that those people do not accept polygamy. If you go there, you will only be putting your life in danger.

    He is wrong to speak of his other wife the way he does. If he feels as he does about her, then he needs to leave her. Guess what? He probably won’t. He does as his mother and family tell him to do. It’s what angers me. They do as their mothers and family say, can’t stand up to themselves and be a man, but they then go out there, mess around with other women and F)ck their lives up out of greed ad selfishness. If they’re going to be momma’s boy, they need to keep being momma’s boy and leave women that their mothers haven’t chosen for them alone. The ones we speak of are the most F ed up people that I know. Pathetic, worthless, piece of an excuse for a man.

    Take your marriage certificate to a Lawyer/attorney and ask him or her what you can do. I think it’s worthless to do because you love this man after all you’ve found out about him and you don’t want to fight for any rights. You want to fight for someone (your husband) who is not willing to fight for you.

  • RiRa

    August 31, 2015

    Salam @Anabellah & Gail,

    Thank you so much for your advise n comments.. It’s really help me to imagine what will I face in the future and I will be more carefully and thinking many times before take an action. After at night he talk with me show that woman at that time i was in period, n after knw all of those things suddenly i had so much bleeding and it’s not stop till more than 1 month. Then After 2weeks My husband asked me to give him my number, bcuz at that time my number was no money, and ct receive call or sms. Then i gv him my number after I recharge thebalance. The next day someone call me. And it’s that woman. And ask me why i still call his husband. She is a lier i never call my husband, my number ct do abroad call. I said im still his wife. And she said, no.. U r not. He’s only for me. She told me that. I explain her my condition n the reason why i want him to marry me. But she said, shut up stupid, u r bitch,, many times.. Then when i inform my husband, my husband said he dt know how she got my number.after he asked to that woman, he told me that woman said she never call and she dt care abt me. They were fighting again. And he said im tired fighting with her. And he’s not happy to know she call me bitch, bcuz he never call people in the bad words. And told me that she is the stupid one n the bitch one, not u. And he applologies to me. I said to him, ur mistake is u lie to me, and i want u to responsible. N after they know u did a mistake, if they r a gud family, why the want u to do zalim thing to me this is not my fault. And he’s agree. But he said his condition was not safe, i think untill now. He also said u cant imagine how she talk..That woman also alwys talk his negativity to his family, and then he will b in trouble bcuz of that..and it happened since b4 we r married. Also abt our case They also talk infront of him his negativity.. He said also his mother feel pity on me bcuz of him but dont know why seems they dt support him to do his responsible in our case. I dt knwwhat kind of people in this family..

    I just want my right as a wife like wht he promises.. I know many things What you both said are correct, but i dont accept if this kind of people doing zalim things to me. Is that possible if i report his family behaviour to police or to law office? If after broke my life n say sorry then i just let them destroy my future, in this condition, they will not feel guilty with their mistake.. I really wana fight for my right..
    FYI, If i want to visit him, i need to fly for 8 hours at least. No direct flight. i never know if can be reached by bus.. If it’s possible, may be i can visit him many times..

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Gail,

    Do you really think that RiRa has a chance of making the marriage work, if she speaks with his other wife and his mother? I think she has lost the fight already. She’s not even blonde haired and blue eyed. It sounds the further away from that look the less chance they have. It just sounds to me that her husband is extremely cold heart. He came out his face straight and said his family wants him to divorce her and he want a divorce. He showed her a woman (on skype) and told her it was his wife. Even if it wasn’t, as RiRa thinks, he felt strongly enough to pretend that some woman was. He said don’t come there, he’d get there when he can. If China is a hop, skip and a jump away, why can’t he get there NOW? It’s sounds like a song I’m familiar with – get here when you can or something.

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015

    Anonymous,

    Knowone can be for certain and say he will not do it.U just have to accept that there is going to be this other side of your husband that u may never truly know.
    He may not ever mistreat u and he may stay devoted to only u and his daughter all his life then again he may not.
    I will tell u this though in your case I would go to Pakistan and meet the family.They have not wronged you that u know of.If u r positive u r his only wife and he does not have another wife then I would say u could try to embrace his family.
    Now in saying that I would ask your husband straight has his parents ever brought up him marrying a Pakistani woman.If he says yes and it was after u two were married then don’t trust them.They r up to no good.U need to ask him on the sly.These men are very smart but they do let their guard down at times.
    I will also warn u never accept a Pakistani woman as a cowife.I do not say that to be cruel but instead they don’t as a whole accept polygamy.Your life would be a nightmare because she is living with the inlaws understand.

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015

    Ana,

    Yes exactly if the men would be open and honest upfront with the woman he is interested in then Polygamy is fine and all is well BUTTT Polygamy is not these mens agenda Immigration is and that is why it is so easy for the men to just crap on these woman.They may really like the woman they marry bit that really don’t matter in the larger scheme of things like family politics and wife in Pakistan coming to find out about her husbands other marriage.
    If these woman like RiRa want to keep their marriages they r going to have to speak to the cowife and the inlaws because this is about culture not Islam and the family would have to accept the foreign wife.I find this nearly impossible to be frank.I myself don’t want to mix up with my husbands family or want my kids mixing up I find them gross for lack of a better word.
    RiRa is close enough being in China she could go to Pakistan by bus but I would not suggest it since her husband doesn’t want her there and his wife and parents are demanding him to divorce her.I don’t see that going well at all to be frank and she would be putting her life in her own hands.
    I think her only option is to speak to his wife and parents separate and get a feel for what is really going on if she intends not to divorce.

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015

    RiRa,

    Listen from what I read of your post.He was called back to Pakistan because his wife suspected he might be married.I doubt there ever was a family situation in dire straights.The woman I am certain is his wife and she is never going to accept Polygamy unless she has some kind of personal or financial gain to do so.
    I am so sorry u didn’t see this website before but now u better tell your husband to come clean and tell u everything.He is a liar so don’t expect the complete truth but u can get enough to figure stuff out.100% he is married more than likely his wife is his cousin as well.
    U r stuck that he signed a paper saying he was not married.These men will sign on the Quran if they think it will get them what they want.My own husband used me for immigration so I know what I am talking about here.
    My husband met me ran to the courts to divorce his cousin wife then kept her religiously without telling me for 8 yrs.The thought of it still creeps me out but he did it and thats the truth in it.
    As far as u going to Pakistan alone DON”T U DARE! u would be risking your life to do such a foolish thing esp knowing he has a wife there.Her or her family could harm u not to mention your husband or his family could do the same.Unless he invites u DO NOT GO and even if he does send for u I would think long and hard before u get on a plane and go there.Never trust your cowife she could poison u to be frank and it has to do with jealousy but also with property rights.She will not be willing to share property with u.They are greedy people just take a look at your husband and see his actions towards u to only see what I am saying.
    What city is your husband from?
    one good thing though is that u being in china u r close to him.He can just jump on a bus and come to u or vice versa.
    Listen something else.If u don’t want divorce then u need to demand he bring his wife on skype and talk with her and get her take on the situation and let her know u did not know about her and he said he was single.Bring everything in the open if u want to fight for your marriage.
    I will be very honest with u it don’t sound like u have the support of his family behind u so chances are this is not going to end in your favor.U must step up and demand to speak to his wife first and his parents second and explain to them u don’t want a divorce and see what they will say.At least u will make everything clear from your side.If he refuses u to speak with them then u know he is screwing around with u.

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    Another thing is, if the men treat their own women like dogs, men from those countries treat women like property and have no respect for them, what makes the foreign woman think they’d treat her any differently? Is it just because she is foreign?

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Gail,

    I would look at the Pakistani and foreign women situation more favorably, if the men did right by the foreign women. If they were to say to the foreign women, look I have a wife and family back in Pakistan. I’m able to marry you, keep them and take good care of both, it would be acceptable. If she accepts then he deal justly with the wives. The men don’t do it though. They only look out for themselves and the wives in Pakistan, which is usually cousin marriage/family. There is no brotherhood or justice. They are greedy. They want to get their citizenship and kick the foreign women to the curb – toss her out like a piece of trash. They act like they found their princess when they get with the foreign women and treats her like it until they get what they want. Once they get what they want for themselves and their family, they say, see ya. They are in the wind. They don’t give a damn about the foreign women, probably never really did. I don’t know how anyone who did care could actually do what they do. Like you said, people in the United States treat their dogs better.

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Anonymous, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    Welcome! It’s good to have you with us.

    I don’t think you should worry about anything. Worrying never made anything better, just worse. You have read some of the comments on this post/thread. You should know by now what the men are about, the family life and the culture. The men are usually loving, kind and charming to the foreign wives. Many have an agenda citizenship/Green card. They marry cousins and they do as their mothers’ say. Their family is their world. It all comes before a foreign wife.

    People are happy when they are getting what they want. Happiness for many is based on desires being fulfilled. He has his visa, his family have dreams of leaving Pakistan. You have your husband and your child. His family is showing you the love. Everyone’s wants, wishes and desires are being fulfilled right now. Everyone seems happy.

    The only way for you to know whether he has a wife or one lined up for him, is to wait and see. He said he wouldn’t go behind your back and marry another. He didn’t say he wouldn’t one day come to you and say he will marry his cousin.

    The question is whether any of it really matters. You are already in there with the marriage and being a family. If he comes to you and says that his family is forcing him to marry another woman or if he divorces you, what could you do, but go with it? Divorce won’t hurt him, but help him bring his family to the States or whatever country you are in.

    Only Allah knows the future, as I’m sure you know. You just have to ride it out. You could ride it out making the best of life and living it to the fullest or in constant thought, worrying and distress about what will happen, so you’ll look old, haggard, stressed and be extremely unhappy.

    It’s the best I could tell you.

    We’re here for you…

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @Gail,

    I suspect gender segregation has a lot to do with the men being bisexual, turning to men. It goes way deeper than it, based on what Allah says in the Quran. I won’t go into all of it now. The segregation of men and women is ridiculous, yet no one seems to question it. People just go blindly with whatever they are told. No where in Quran does Allah say brother-in-faith and sisters-in-faith can’t be friends with one another and communicate with one another. Allah says men are protectors and maintainers of women (not only wives, but women). How are they to maintain and protect them, if they can’t communicate with them?

    Men and women mix freely in all countries except those that have a high population of Muslims. It’s in the countries where the Muslim men and women are separate they they have a serious problem with gays and bisexuals and rape of boys, men groping women and raping women. It’s crazy that women can’t feel safe amid men who claim to be Muslim because those men act like barbarians. You’d think they were back in the day when men rode by a woman, swooped her up, rode off with her and raped her. People need to be able to police themselves, but of course in countries in which Muslim men treat women as worthless and property, it can’t be done.

    What has the separation accomplished. The men turn to boys and other men. The women are left without their husbands. Polygamy is banned or frown upon. The men can’t turn to polygamy, which give them an outlet if they desire more than one wife.

    Some say that because the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wives had a screen between them and men when they communicated that it means women and men of today are to be separated. They fail understand or don’t know that Allah says the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are not like any other women. His wives’ punishment was double that of the other people. They weren’t allowed to ever marry again once the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was called back to Allah and left this earth. There were certain conditions for the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his wives (The Mothers of the Believers).

  • Gail

    August 30, 2015

    I am running for work but I will read everyones post when I get home tonight.

    Ana I seen u posted Pakistan’s Hidden Shame it will shed some light for foreign woman.I am not saying all Pakistani men are bisexual but again ALOTTT of them and I mean ALOTTT have engaged in gay activity.I won’t say they are all doing with children but for sure the gay aspect of all this because of the gender segregation is very real.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 30, 2015

    Salaam Anabellah ! Thanks for your advise based on the real truth you know about paki man. His plan is in one month i should be landing on Pakistan. Today he phoned my father and my uncle for tell them he loves me and he wants to live with me.. Oh God all is mucj weird like stupid joke i hope could wake up with amnesia tomorrow… i much screw blinded confused ufff..

  • Anonymous

    August 30, 2015

    Assalamu Alaikum all, I am a european girl married to a pakistani man, we have a almost year old Daughter. His whole family knows about it and they love the child to bits, i have spoken to his mother a few times also. My husband and I have been together for 4 years. He just recently got the visa through me. After reading all your comments I am a bit worried now to be honest. There’s no change in his character at all in fact he has become more loving since he’s got his papers. He is planning to go to pakistan soon , he has asked me if I want to come along with him and His family desperately wants to see me and our child too, but i told him i don’t want to go yet, he accepted my wish, so he will be going alone. Now after reading all these comments I am a bit worried that he might get married behind my back also. We had a discussion about this a few times and he swore on Quran that he wouldn’t get married behind my back, but I am still worried now after reading what some of you have gone through.. Am i worrying for no reason???

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    @RiRa, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I am so sorry your are very depressed and sad. I would expect that you would be, based on all that you are going through. You’ve been through and are going through an awful lot. You really need to try to take better care of yourself. You said your parents are ill, the last thing you want is for them to become more ill because they are worried about you.

    I will be totally honest with you about what I think of your situation. I will not tell someone something that is not true to make the person feel better. I think everyone on this blog are honest people and give the best advice based on their knowledge and what they know of a person’s situation. We can only give advice based on what a person shares.

    I think your husband is no different than any of the other Pakistani men who we read about here on the blog that is married to a foreign woman. As you know, to a Pakistan his mother is most important to him. His mother and the family rules his life. The men usually marry their cousins. They keep their wealth in the family. They do whatever it takes to take care of their families, even if it means marrying a foreign woman for citizenship or money. Whether the man loves the foreign woman or not doesn’t really matter because she is the least important thing to him. Action speaks louder than words. A man saying how much he loves his foreign wife means nothing when he devotes his life to his cousin wife and her and his family.

    Your husband has let you know he has another wife in Pakistan. His family wants him to divorce you and he wants a divorce. He says he doesn’t care what you do. He said don’t come to Pakistan because he will be in trouble, if you do. I think he has said all of it to you because he is being truthful. He is letting you know what the facts are. He is letting you know that it will not work out for you and him. He is basically letting you know so that you will leave him alone so that he could be at peace in Pakistan with his wife and his family. He has spelled it out as best and clearly as he possibly can.

    He probably does have some love for you and he probably hurt that you hurt, but there is nothing he can do. His hands are tied. His lord is his mother and family in Pakistan. He says he will get to you when he can, be patient. I think he would probably SNEAK off and be with you again if the opportunity presents itself. What I mean by it is, if he gets a job outside Pakistan (in China again, for instance or another such country) and you can go there. You will have to be his secret wife, because, as he said, he will be in trouble if they know he is still with you. I’m not Allah, so things could be different. Only Allah knows how things will work.

    You said you can’t let your family know what is happening because they are ill. I don’t think them knowing about the situation would help change anything for you. There is absolutely nothing they could do, other than try to be supportive of you and help you get back on your feet. Based on what you said about them, you need to be supportive of them and helping them.

    If I understand you correctly, you have a registered marriage in the country in which you live. Once you get stronger, you may want to end the marriage officially so you could go on with your life. He said he doesn’t care if you go to the courts or what you do. Otherwise, you could wait for him to one day come to you and be with you secretly when ever you can. If you expect to live a “normal” (which there is no such thing) married life with the man, you are fooling yourself. The odds are against you for it. Remember, Allah could do anything.

    I can understand that you fear you will never get another husband. Allah knows best whether he would give you another one or not. You would have a better chance of getting one if you believe good things about Allah and begin to focus on Him and not on your husband or any other human being or thing.

    So, those are my thoughts on the matter. What you describe seems typical of Pakistani men married to foreign women. I’ve only known of two women who things worked in their favor. It’s our dear Gail, here. Then there is Fatima who used to be on the blog here. She has an Indian husband.

  • anabellah

    August 30, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikim As Salaam

    You must do what you think you need to do. If you feel you have to see for yourself what this man is really about, and are ready to risk your life and that of your children for it, no one can stop you. If you think that love is the begin all and end all for you and it’s what matters most to you, then go with it. When he begin to show you what he and his family are really like, be ready for us to tell you that we told you so.

    We, here on the blog, have let you know what most of the men from Pakistan seeking a foreign wives are all about. We let you know about their culture that supersedes any Islam or any other culture or respect of others. Your mind is made up. We have to see how Allah lets it play out for you. When are you expected to leave?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 30, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum all dears:
    The most i read the most i really hate pak men and pak country while i give the best of myself with those ppl they dissapoint me more cos im very kind and sweet but forget our culture and manners are so different thats why I blame in me expecting they do the same. I m like i dont want to let my man go first i wanna see the truth if hes just taking advantage on me or he really felt inlove with me. But theres no way to know it certain till we meet each other in person. Nowadays im much tention in sad mood cos i tried to leave him but he didnt allow it he said no no you are mt wife and nobody can come between us… there arent a day he does not tell me how much he loves me and etc etc. For about 2 years. How a cheat fishing man could endure 16 months following a woman ? Just giving me love and care ? And send daily pics of him..?? Is this a lie ? How can i run away from him if i just see every second of my life the love he gives to me and i started believing could be true.. im lost in darkness sorry all.. Allah bless you

  • ummof4

    August 30, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum,

    RiRa, thank you for answering the questions. It sounds as if your husband is a liar. He is married to the woman in Pakistan and is married to you. He may be afraid to come back to China if he lied when he married you and said he was single. He is afraid for you to come to Pakistan because of all the problems that it will cause for him. It sounds as if you love him and want to know what your status is as his wife. Is he ever coming back to you? Will you ever be together again? Only Allah knows. Pray to Allah to send you guidance and you will receive it. Allah dies not give any of us a burden greater than we can bear.
    Are you Chinese? Is your family Muslim too? If your family is Muslim, what about your father or brothers or uncles in this situation? What do they think about it?

  • RiRa

    August 30, 2015

    W’salam ummof4,
    Yes, Im from muslim family but Im not chinesse, Im working in China. He also told me that he regret why he dt tell me before nikah. Because he knows I will not accept. He never back after that but he still in communication with me but whenever he has pressure and stressful he will be easy to angry and want to be separated. He said he want to be with me but not sure when it is. Because he said still struggle with his business.

    None of my family know abt this problem. I dont want to see them sick because of my problem. Only my mother knows that my husband back to Pak. To know this she always cry imagine how is my condition without husband in other country. My husband also feel guilty with my parents and always ask about my parents condition. He is a good husband actually when he’s with me. Feed me every morning with his hand. At night he alwys cut me fruits n feed me like a baby. Asked me to sleep before him and woke me up. I really want to see my husband and see his condition. I dont want to stay here without my husband. I dont know what to do.

  • RiRa

    August 30, 2015

    @anabellah @ummof4,
    It was me, after editting, my name bcome undefined..

  • RiRa

    August 30, 2015

    @anabellah, @ummof4,
    He said don’t come because if i come he will bebin trouble. And he will come to me but still dont know when it is. Yesterday i called him because at night he told me that he is in so much painfull back, i just worry he got accident. Bcuz he never want to share his bad condition cuz worry if i cant sleep here. Then a woman answer and said haloo haloo and drop the call. I ask him with many massages, why he allow someone else to pick the call. he said dont know if hv a call. No call yesterday. And he becone angry about my mssg bcuz i wanna come there. He said why i never listen him. I said i alwys listen n now i want to be with my husband. He said do whatever i want or if i go to court. Before that we r fine, he alwys keep to pay attention abt me, but indontnknow why suddenly he change so much. If i get divorce i dt know how sad r my parents, my father has heart attack now his condition also not really good. I have trauma if to find smeone else..im scared.,

    Im living in china. Now he’s in pakistan. Before we got married we’re in friendship and he propose me when he visit china on 2011. So we hv LDR for 3,5 years and he visit China lastbyear to marry me. For registration in my embassy in china was so difficult. He alr provided unmarriage affidavit and i still have the original one with me. We did nikah with an imam. Then he neednto back to Pak bcuz he cant extend his visa then the next month he visit my country n mk registration there also the wedding party. After finished, we back to china, n will fiind him a job. He had some interview but need to wait to join the company for sometimes. Then suddenly he wantbto back to pakistan bcuz of family issue. He said his mother not happy and if not going back there will be in trouble with his kother n his mother’s family. I dt allow him, but he said he had big trouble there. Then he said will earn money then he will ask me to come there bcuz we dt hv money after all of these things. Once he arrived there, he called me on skype. show me a woman, he said its his wife n want to divorce me n that woman r so rude with him n he look scared. His voice is louder than him. I was shocked n i really dt understand bcuz i hv his unmarriage affidavit how come he alr marriage. I thought may be its only a trick fr his family bcuz she looks older than him may bcuz it was dark :D At that time i hv so much bleeding and not stop for more than 1month nobody with me. After few days, he called me n explain everything, he said he want to responsible to me n pls be patient. He said his family want him to mk divorce letter but he dt want to do. N alwys gv me support during that bleeding period n alwys checking my condition. since thatbtime my condition is really bad i loss much weight and so much depressed..

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Sabrina,

    What you described about the helpless women there is just awful. It’s terrible and so, so sad. What is even more sad is that there isn’t anything we women or anyone here on the blog can do about it. We could only warn women who are thinking about hooking up with one of those degenerates.

    The men are suppose to be maintainers of protectors of women. They are supposed to protect, help and care for the women, children and men who are weak and oppressed. Instead, they do the complete opposite. They are the oppressors. Then they wonder why Allah has sent them no help, and have them live as they do.

    It seems hopeless. It’s not that prayers would work for them either, other than praying for all believers (we don’t have to know who they are. It’s a general prayer). Allah tells us pray for all believers in the world. Other than it, our, as in the people on this blog, hands are tied.

    Sabrina, you are a sweetheart to care for you co-wife (your sister-in-faith) as you do. Just her knowing you’re on her side may bring her some moments of happiness and temporary relief. You are a good person. It makes me teary eyed {{{hugs}}}

  • Sabrina

    August 29, 2015

    @Umair I am not sure about Pakistani politics other than what he tells me. He is vey passionate about it. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif
    I try to understand but his world back there is so different he walks round with a gun, which I would never see in the UK. His daughters couldn’t go to school for 2 months because of the shooting in the school in Pewshwar.
    @ anabellah I would love to visit Pakistan but the area my husband lives in would be a definite no no my co cant even go down the shop without being called a prostitute. I think they would just see me as a threat. And a possible target for kidnapping. The subject of my co going to the shop was one of the first things that alerted me to my husband not always saying it as it is, not long after we were married he would complain my co was spending too much money then he slipped up saying she was not allowed down the shop on her own when I asked him how she spending too much money then if she cant go down the shop he wouldn’t answer. He later told me that his brother does the shopping but he blames co for the spending. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_sad.gif. Anther time I had to stick up for her. I think you put that perfectly about non believers and hypocrites who pray. The programme the Shame of Pakistan puts into perspective their double standard.
    Another thing that angers me with my husband family is they hit the girls. Last eid he sent me a pictures of them in their new clothes the girls had black eyes when I asked about it he said the his brother and his children had been hitting them nobody seems to stand up for them. When he went back to Pakistan he didn’t seem to confront the issue with his brother. Really when I think about it when I say myself and co-wife at peace with each other, we are as accepting each other goes, but the life her and the girls have got I’m not happy with. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cry.gif

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    Listening to some of these stories here made me think about a song from the movie, “Dream Girls”. It’s an intense kind of love and I don’t think it’s the kind a Pakistani person understands. I barely know if I understand it. (For those who don’t listen to music, close your ears). :-)

  • ummof4

    August 29, 2015

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello all,

    RiRa welcome to the blog. So you are married to a Pakistani man. What country do you live in and what country does your husband live in? Does he have another wife? Did he marry her first or did he marry you first?
    Please answer the questions so we can advise you as best we can.

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    RiRa, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Welcome! I’m glad you found our blog. No, you are not the only one in a bad situation. You are not alone.

    I can’t answer the question about how to get an invitation letter so you could go to Pakistan. I can’t answer how easy it is for a woman to get around in any city in Pakistan or whether you would be able to find work there. I’m hopeful Gail, Umair, Mari2, Sabrina or Spirited, if she is reading, could answer you.

    RiRa, I understand that you love your husband very much, you miss him, and you want to be with him. I don’t know your entire story, but, based on what you have said, I do not think it is a good idea for you to travel to Pakistan. You should not go. I don’t think it is safe for you there. I am concerned, as you said your husband is back in Pakistan and you and he had problems in your marriage before he left. You said others interfered in your marriage and he got quite emotional. I can only assume that the people who interfered in your marriage was his family. Family, especially the mothers, are extremely important to Pakistani people. What the family says goes.

    If your husband and you are now having problems, he did not ask you to come there, and is not helping you get there, you should NOT go there. There is no one there to take care of you. He didn’t ask you to come and there is no guarantee he will be there to greet you. If his family tells him not to go to you, he most likely will listen to them. It is dangerous for a foreign woman to travel to Pakistan alone with no one there to greet her and no one there who cares about her. You would be entirely there all by yourself and on your own.

    Maybe you don’t want to go back to your native country, where ever it is, but you certainly, without a doubt, do not want to go to Pakistan. You said you don’t want a divorce. I could understand you love your husband, and do not want a divorce. If your husband wants one, what can you do to stop him? You could stay married to him, but if he won’t see you or talk to you, what is left for you to do? What good is being married to him?

    What has your husband said to you. Did he tell you that he wants to divorce you?

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Umair,

    I’ve posted below a link to the video that Gail watched. A commentator named “Lee” was here, over on another thread, and brought the video to our attention.

  • Umair

    August 29, 2015

    Sabrina ANP is going down with the most corrupt party with Imran Khan’s PTI clean sweep KPK.Is he Billour from Peshawar area? Imran Khan married Jemima one of the best in UK.Now they are divorced with children in limbo but with mother..

    @Gail,are you talking about the Shameful Kasur incident just 50k south of Lahore.That’s the biggest Child Abuse in the history of Pakistan.Yeah definetly Gail,they are naked underneath Hijabs & Scarfs worse than Bikini’s!

    “God has never changed the condition of nation,who doesn’t want to change there”!

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Sabrina,

    I’m writing this quickly, as I have to run out. Your co-wife probably would have a better life if the people were following Quran and not culture. She would have more rights. Many Muslims threw the Quran behind their backs once the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) left this earth. The people went back to their old ways. They went back to pre-Islamic times. They took the women’s rights away and treat them like chattel again. It’s very sad. It’s not Islam at all. They only say it is.

  • RiRa

    August 29, 2015

    Salam all,

    I thought its only me face bad situation. Now i realized so many strong women on this blog. dont know how to start actually.
    now im stuck cant do anything n dont know what to do.i dt meet my husband For so long time since he back to Pak. Once he back then i knw his status was fake before with me. Now i know everything but dt know why he change so much. I understand his situation and he also dont know how to come to me now bcuz of many issues. I feel bad whenever after he met his family he become emotional easily (he’s not living with family, only meet several times in a month) n I will not accept if he want to divorce me. N its only bcuz of presure from something else. I really want to meet him, but dont know how to get invitation letter and if i visit, just worry he dont want to meet me.. Im not living in my country i alr asked to pak consulate, but need invitation letter if i want to visit Pak. Is that easy for woman to go anywhere in 1 of city in Pak? Or living alone there for sometimes in case he cant stay with me? Is that easy to get job there if i want to work there? Honestly i dont want to back to my country without my husband or before my problem is solved. Thank you..

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Sabrina,

    It was most weird to me when I leaned there are people who memorized the Holy Quran, call themselves Hafiz or something and don’t have a clue what the ayat (verses) in the Quran mean. It is beyond crazy and senseless to me. What good is memorizing something that the person doesn’t understand? It’s one of the reason I tell Muslims to learn the Quran in any language they understand, and don’t waste time trying to learn Arabic when they could learn the Quran and live it. Some would only spend all their time trying to learn a foreign language and not learn the meaning. There are some who can learn and read Arabic easily. Good for them. They should do it. Over all, people need to do what is best for them. Learning the meaning of what is in the Holy Quran and living it is what is most important. Allah made people of all races, colors, nationalities and languages. He did not make everyone to read and speak Arabic.

    I understand there are many Muslims who can’t read and rely on what an Imam or someone tells them. There are a lot of illiteracy. People must remember that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was an illiterate. For the people, if their is a will there is a way. Allah teaches. Unfortunately there are many Muslims who rely on what others tell them, hence there is ISL, the Taliban, Al Qaider and other sects that are creating mischief in the land, but think they are doing good. They don’t know that Allah tells us to leave people alone. It’s not for anyone to force Islam on anyone, not even force it on a Muslim. They who do it is sooooo very wrong.

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Gail,

    If you remember, I was one totally ignorant about Pakistan and their culture until you and Jenny began talking about it. What you and she was saying, still was going over my head for a long, long time. You both had to keep stressing that you were talking Pakistani Culture not Islam. I had a hard time getting it. Jenny said the people don’t know what’s in the Quran and most don’t own a Quran. I couldn’t get it in my head for the life of me. It was because I am a convert and Islam (Quran) is my world. So, all I could see is people who say they are Muslim are staunch in the belief as I am. Eventually, it began to sink into my head that it is not so. There are other women out there who think the same as I used to think – that all people who say they are Muslim follow Islam. They don’t think they have to be so particular the person or about investigating the person or deciphering who is really following the religion and who isn’t. It’s not true. We must investigate thoroughly.

    You are correct.Most of those people (Pakistani) walk about wearing the scar or hijab, but are they God fearing? I’m sure you may be able to find one here or there who is, but for the most part, NO, they are not. It annoys me when people come hear and say one does not know what is in a person’s heart. I have to ask them why in the world do the person think Allah speaks in the Holy Quran of all types of people and their traits and characteristics? Why do they think Allah tells us to investigate? It’s not just information that is in the Holy Quran to entertain us. What is in a person’s heart manifest itself for others to see. Of course, Allah is the ONLY ONE who knows exactly all that is in a person’s heart completely and what they hide. We need to know about people to function properly in life with them.

    The condition of the people in Pakistan let’s me know what is in their hearts. It’s an extremely poor Third, World, Country. Why is it like it? Allah says He takes care of believers. He provides. He is a compassionate God and a Merciful God. He is Kind and much more. The people there don’t get any relief because they are steep in culture that includes abomination (such as the hidden shame (homosexuality) and it includes greed, corruption and much more. They try to get whatever they can by any means necessary, even if they have to use foreign women to get it. As I stated in an earlier post, Allah says He would not change a condition of a people until they first change what is in their hearts. It’s why they live in the conditions in which they are in and there seems no relief in sight for them. As I said the mosques are there, the call to prayer is heard and they pray. Allah says in the Quran that some Muslim’s prayers are for show and useless. Hypocrites pray too.

    People may ask why the United States Isn’t like Pakistan then. They say people here don’t serve and worship Allah as He instructs in the Holy Quran. The difference is the people in the U.S do not profess to be Muslim. They straight up say they are not. They are not hypocritical by saying they are Muslim, but everything shows they are not. The Muslims took a covenant with Allah. The non-Muslims did not. People who say they are Muslim who are in Pakistan say they are Muslim and may look the part, but that is it. It’s the difference. What is expected of those who call themselves Muslims is not expected of those who say they are not.

  • Gail

    August 29, 2015

    Umair,

    I don’t think I said western men were much better to accept other peoples children because I believe men and women in general have a very hard time trying to be fair when it comes to raising other peoples children.
    I have adopted my excowife’s children and raised them since basically birth and there have been times I struggle.I would be a liar if I said it was a piece of cake.
    I noticed though with Pakistani men and the culture in general they frown on things like adoption unless it is inside the family.They would not take an unknown child and adopt it from what I have seen but instead they give to mosque that help orphans.Then u brought up the child stays with the mother until age 7 because all children are considered the fathers property(for lack of a better word).Then I watched last night on youtube about all this child rape going on inside the country to street children.I think what is so appalling to me as a USA citizen having lived in Pakistan personally for me it has to do with how Pakistan betrays itself as a Allah fearing nation but in reality u have this society of gay and bisexual behavior running rampant through society.I don’t know how religion and immorality can coexist.It blows my mind.Now in saying that I get it that is is the same in the Catholic religion esp with the priest etc… Soo I don’t want to come across as Europe is the best etc.. I just feel like it is better to deal the beast u know than to go try to deal something u don’t know.
    Zahra can’t believe that this boy and his entire family could be lying to her but as u and I know the entire family will do their part to trap the foreign girl by being loving and sweet and calling her daughter etc…These people have no morals yet they claim because they were a scarf or hijab they fear Allah.They fear nothing and lust after money.Money is their G.D.

  • Sabrina

    August 29, 2015

    @ Zhara
    You got to remember that Prince Charming falling in love is a very western notion. Also Muslims from countries like Pakistan mix how they view Islam with their culture. A lot of them learn the Quran off by heart without understanding a word. Or they can not read so it is how the Imam interprets it to them is their understanding. In my husbands areas if they went by Islam by co-wife would have more rights.

  • Sabrina

    August 29, 2015

    @Zahara

    I think you should take notice of what Gail and Umair is saying, you say about helping him financial ooh no don’t in their culture its is seen as the man’s duty to provide, you think they would let their wives and sisters give them money like that. This is one reason their mothers are so possessive over their boys they are their only income especially if anything happens to the father. They will see you as a cash cow sending money as Gail says they will be laughing especially if you are doing it out of love. My husband would never take a penny off me, I have tested him a few times. He lost his job in Kuwait for 3 months he had no money coming in when I offered to help he wouldn’t take it, he would see it as an insult. When I’m with him in Kuwait I never pay for anything, not even coffee for us which I hate. But in countries like Pakistan and middle east it seen as an embarrassment for the man if the woman is paying.

    Your question would all the family know and be on it yes you are improving their sons life and in turn their life. If they can get him to the west then they will use it a springboard to send more to work there, more money gets sent back to them back home. It would be a big insult to break an engagement so I cant see him doing that, but the girls family wont mind that if he does get a chance abroad.

    @Umair my husband is with the ANP. He tells me is going up in the party. He tells me he rather deal with the Taliban he never seeing fighting like it before. We gone through a very bad patch I fought with him, over things he said then I find untrue. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif
    He knows now its my way or the highway and being his usually boastful self he told a lot of people he married me so he doesn’t want the shame of divorced or the I told you so from co-wife family that it wouldn’t never work between us. So if he wants us to work and all stay as one big family he has to change his ways.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 29, 2015

    Salaam and good morning to everyone ! Thanks for your words and for take your time for write me.. i m much cold heart now. Thanks to your advises i can see more clear everything i was really really blind.this punjabi man is like real cos he post pics of my kids in fb to all his family and friends then he says hes my son . It is very naughty for me. And things like that makes me feel that from first maybe he started a game with me where himself felt inlove unexpected way and maybe now he really loves me. But i have landed with all i had read and indeed all my family and friends stopped me to go to pak cos they said i will never come back again. By the way i wrote a lettee to my ambassador there noticing him i was about to be therw sooner.. MashAllah he replied me the email suggesting let us know the right place you will be in the complete adress in order to know where are u exactly. But i think now how someone could find me on that village where just i saw dust and evergreen fields ?? My worry now is when i ll leave him he will try to find me like mad he will call my mom my brother my cousins and i want to give him an explanation why im leaving and why im not going to come to pakistan.. ya Allah ! A big broken heart pain is waiting to me ! Tears and bad times if i mistake by chance and he really was true or he really loved me and i didnt trust him… now i just wanna run and forget all of this but shaytan comes again to mw and tell me go go he really loves you and you will be the princess of Gujrat as you dreamt…have a good evening to everyone…

  • anabellah

    August 29, 2015

    @Umair,

    Thank you for correcting me. I’m sorry I misunderstood. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

  • Umair

    August 29, 2015

    Thank you Ana,

    No,one point you misunderstand is that the honour killing of his sister,is she talks with someone else with the ref.of Sabrina’s point that his husband don’t let his sister talk with any man.Don’t have mobile or Social media.

    Yes,I think Gail has spent 10-15 yrs in PK to have absolute knowledge & skills,that Pakistan culture dictate rather than Islam.b)Mothers have an absolute say,if No mother then Elder sister or sisters.

    Even I want to have a Virgin wife,who is untouched.I will want my advice of my mother,but not absolute say of my mother.She is not like that,this is the girl for you Umair,you have to marry her at any cost.This is NOT in Islam but a forced marriage(Illegal Marriage or even Zina).Many children are fixed with other cousins since birth in villages,when they grow up will be there to take to their home(Case is of the girl).Otherwise family feuds will occur for generations.I can’t be more personal giving my own examples…

    Zahra,don’t you think 23 yrs young man can handle a women with 2-3 kids?The person who can understand is who himself is divorcee & have fear of GOD.It’s hard to excerpt someone’s else children.Some angel who will accept it not just saying,you know now why a Divorcee women is looked down or frowned upon in Pakistan with disgust as mother has the children until 7 yrs,if she is not skunk.The assumption is that if she is divorced for a reason,2nd,3rd time divorcee will confirm that assumption which is true in certain cases that women is not right.

    I disagree with Gail a bit,that’s it’s NOT only Pakistani but accepting anyone’s children is not easy,In Western counties(US/UK/AU/Can) the children are killed as well with the baggage from his or her marriage.That’s where I disagree.

    I wanted to marry a women with children,I am a bachelor,my mother,Aunts(Uncle’s wives),cousins that we will get you an unmarried girl as it’s really hard to raise someone’s child as you own.Her husband was in Army was martyred very early but had one children in that time.She was younger than me,because she married quite an early age.They were right it will be harsh/cruel on me to accept someone’s else children if I never had mine…

    Zahra,I couldn’t give more personal account.I use to hear these stories of foreign women getting used for Pyar,which means love in Urdu but for PR in that country(Short Cut) way in 80’s & 90’s but now due to Internet/technology you know about people before setting a foot on the land or country.These women have changed their religion,left families & you use them with what image of Islam potray.Few have become Christians to marry as marrying a local girl is the short cut way,divorce her bring your real wife from PK,mostly cousin or not cousins.As Gail said many family members don’t even know he has a secret wife,let alone the girl who he is marrying.

    The other reasons marrying in cousins is that you know them as outside their have been frauds in marriages.

    The reason I said that is because i DON’T want you to think every Pakistani men is like it,mostly are but not all.The rationale for me being giving so personal examples to you on the blog.This is not ON,that women has reverted to Islam,with image of Islam did you give to her?Not very good to start with.You know how the children are raised who marry to other religion faith,me being to UK(London),US(NY/LA),Canada(Toronto),AU(Syd/Melb) to see the world.

    Sorry my replies are late because I am in different time zone than you!It’s day in U.S.,night here!

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Dear Zahra Gujar,

    There is no guarantee that Allah will protect you in this situation. It appears you are marrying the man for “lust” and Allah says don’t marry for “lust”. You can’t be marrying this man because he appears to be a good believing brother who wants to pray with you and raise your kids to be good believing children etc. There isn’t much Islam in Pakistan from what I can see. It’s all culture.

    Allah could very well be protecting you now by giving you all the information that you are receiving at your fingertips from the computer. If you disregard His signs, you could very well be on your own. He may forgive you for what you’ve done down the road, but it doesn’t mean you won’t have to live the whole nightmare out before he gives you any relief. I’m just saying. Allah knows best.

  • Gail

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    U asked Allah to guide u and he has I am very sincere when I say his engagement was never broken and he is still 100% engaged with his cousin.
    Look u can’t break an engagement in Pakistan because u want another girl.I mean u can but u better believe u r going to get your a$$ shot dead if u r trying to screw a family member.I husband picked me over his cousin and divorced her and believe u me ever since I came in the picture it has been nothing but a horrible family feud like u would never believe.
    Please for the sake of your children walk away from this mess.U seen he was fishing on the internet for other women and u r the fish that took the bait understand? Allah will send u someone better then this crap I can assure u if u just wait and stay patient.
    I would rather see u with an older man in his 40s or 50s and live polygamy than marry a 23 yr old Pakistani kid that is marrying for immigration and financial means.
    Understand this every single time u send them money they r laughing and making fun of u that u r so stupid.It is time to get your head out of the clouds and come back to earth where everyone else lives.Don’t destroy your kids futures u think u crying now u will be screaming later after he robs u blind.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015

    :( each minute passing and i become more dissapointed. I have no enough words for that situation.. oh dear you words are now like i heartbeat i already have … but yet i cannot believe all the family could dare to do such cheap thing like that. Are they really in need and ignorant liers to do all of this together ? They thought maybe :that woman is our !! And now i realize that the cousin sister i use to chat maybe is the arrange.. this is the worst nightmare i have being facing in my whole life
    Now is my turn to show all of them Allah is my protector and with him no nobody can hurt me..

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    You’ve got to use some common sense now, as well. Pakistani men want to marry virgins. At a certain age, the women are consider beyond the age of marriage. Even when they are young, as you are, they are considered old. divorce is frowned upon. I’m assuming you were divorce, as I can’t remember what you said in the earlier post. Those men don’t like to raise other men’s children. Do you really think love is the reason he wants to marry you or is the fact that you love him good enough? Think about your children. Do you want to take a chance on that man and drag your children through the mud with it? SIGH

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    I understand now. I’m a little slow sometimes LOL Forgive me.

    I’m very much concerned for you because based on what you have said in your earlier post, you’ve got a lot going for yourself. I think you said you’re a home owner. You have a good job. You work very hard. You could really be a dream come true for many men, not only Pakistani or foreign men, but Americans, Canadian or where ever. Especially for a Pakistani man.

    I see what’s going on now. It’s even more clear to me now than what Gail, Umair and I suspect. It is probably far more true than not. They let him break the engagement with the cousin because you are a good catch. You are money in the bag. They see nothing right now, but Sack of Money

    Breaking the engagement was easy, if it did actually happen. He could still be engaged to her, but they are letting you believe she is not. How would you have any way of knowing? May Allah forgive me if I’m wrong, but the cousin is probably in on the plan. She knows, if he marries you, he will eventually divorce you, marry the her, and bring her and all the rest of the family here, exactly as Gail and Umair said. Then you and your children will be left heartbroken and in a very sad state.

    I really hope you don’t go for the okie doke. They are all about the money. Of course, they are treating you like royalty now, and making you feel inclusive. They’ve got to seal the deal and make this thing happen.

    I don’t know what else anyone can say to make you see what’s happening. There is not enough love in the world that should make you take a chance on that man and end up on the losing end. You know now, that in Pakistan the culture rule. The family dictates what the men do, especially and in particular the “mother”. You are no exception to the rule. You are the rule. What more can I say??? Even if you were to go through with it, how could you feel secure in a relationship in which there is so much doubt from the start?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015

    He was engagement with cousin just and he broke engagement 8 months ago he said his parents allowed him

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Oh, I see. He was engaged to someone else and he broke that engagement when he met you?

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015

    Walekum us salaam
    Yes he did he broke it since first met and he said hes parents let him his own choice..

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam

    I’m a little bit confused. Did he break the engagement or not? If not, do you still intend to go there? http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_scratch.gif

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 28, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum how are you all. Im here so interested in all you said and i really appreciate your time about me cos you all maybe are saving a life.
    Yes sometimes the need of being loved is more than the logial things. I took that situation too much seriously cos i am the woman who use to give all in a relationship in order to make it works. I accepted him with bad mood flaws and blinded cos i believe he was genuine. How a man could blow a woman that way ? We reached one year and a half talking everyday. We had fights jealous from each other but always we end happy. He never ever asking me for money but i was send some amounts from my heart for help him.. cos i love him so much and i want to share cos my ALLAH happy on me. He announced in public our relation with all family cousins and his brother. He also contact my family and sons he care all seems real like a dream like true thats why i trust he ask for my sons all time . My only doubt is : i found in his fb friendlist hundred of girls from other countries : brazil philiphines Usa Canada etc… but he deleted all of them when i said. I found him in his own chat seemed friendly and respectful place. I also meet 2 very nice friends from that place. He showed me his village all the family in parties live video call… gi i feel elder woman by his side but i really willing to see him in person.. what another proof can i put in him for trust him all ? Im really confused why a pakistami man could use me and throw me to the dust bin rather i give him all in my hands. The last thing is i just putted on on my Allah hands.. but now that i read all my angels here who lead me i wanna stoo this shit but i cant i havent enough power i left my life in her hands why he cannot be an exception ? Why God tell me !!! Im also willing to know Pakistan im inlove with the culture im muslimah converted and want to improve my Islam infact i told my two friend in Islamabad and India if something bsd happens to me i run away to ypur houses cos i go near india border.. well im brave but stupid brainless blinded following my man just.. im crying.. Gail Anabellah ummair.. . Love u so much Allah bless u bros and sisters

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    @Gail,

    Maybe you should consider becoming an activist in regard to the matter. You could work it with the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. I could see you now on TV being interviewed for your political views on the matter. I have a vivid imagination. Insha Allah, you could write a book, as well. It is sure to be a Best Seller. Maybe it’s your calling. Don’t miss it. You’d be awesome at it.

    More power to the people LOL. No, all joking aside, I think you’d be good at it and people would take notice.

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Thank you very much for coming forward, and confirming all that Gail has been saying. I see it as a very admirable thing that you did. You seem to be a very good heart person. Gail does know her stuff.

    I wonder how the Baroness Warsi gets away with being so vocal about the matter, and hasn’t been attacked for it. What she says paints Pakistani men in a very bad light. Yet, she hasn’t been harmed – thank Allah much. I used to follow the political career of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. I was in a state of shock when she was killed.

    I’ve been reading about the migrant crisis in the European Union. It’s heart wrenching. I get upset sometimes reading about it. All those refugees, seeking political asylum who are drowning. I feel for the countries that have to shoulder the burden of taking on all those people. I just read this morning about the lorry that was found on a road in Austria with about 79 people in it who were dead. I can’t imagine having opened the door to see all those people who were dead in there. Human trafficking is big business now.

    @Sabrina, :-)

    It’s good to hear from you again. It’s been a long time. Thank you much for sharing with us your knowledge on the Pakistani crisis; I will call it. I should probably say one of their crises, as they have so many.

    I especially am glad that you spoke of the person whom you know who was killed when she broke her engagement to a Pakistani man. I could see how it would happen, as Umair stated – an honor killing. It what these women who are falling for these men online or else where need to be aware of.

  • anabellah

    August 28, 2015

    @Gail,

    One would think you had a PHD based on the knowledge you have regarding the Pakistani people and culture. You’ve got it going on. When you were over there living on and off, you had to have been very astute with a keen eye. Not many people are like it.

    As you stated, you could only put the facts out there and hope that the women will read and take heed. Though, some people have to learn the hard way. They have to go through it and see for themselves.

    I’m very glad that Umair, being a Pakistani male, validated all that you’ve said, instead of trying to find fault in the messenger. It’s so helpful when others back you up, such as Umair. It was very admirable of him.

    I could understand people wanting a better life, as well, but not by lying and taking advantage of people. Pakistan is considered a Muslim country, but there is no Islam there. There may be some mosques, call to prayer and people praying, but overall, it lacks substance when it comes to Islam. I base what I say on what Allah says in the Holy Quran about people and their condition. The people there are steep in culture. The culture doesn’t coincide with Islam. It’s all contrary. Allah says He won’t change a person’s condition until they change what is in their hearts.

  • Gail

    August 28, 2015

    Umair,

    Thank u for validating what I am saying from a Pakistani males perspective.I have learned so much about Pakistani culture that I think I could have a PHD in it considering I am not Pakistani myself.lol
    I just want to educate foreign women that this is going on and Pakistani men are fishing for women through the internet as a fast track means to get immigration in a foreign country.On the flip side since I have lived in Pakistan I honestly get why the men are doing it but the problem is Pakistani culture is nothing like European culture so the majority of the time the women get truly hurt and more times than not the woman have children from other marriages.I just want to get the information out there to the women then let them decide what to do with the facts.I am not against anyone trying to better themselves but I am against using innocent unsuspecting women to do it.Again it really does help for others to speak up and say yeah this is correct.The more people stand against this type of crime and I do label it as a crime the more women who come online to investigate will see hey there is not one person talking like this but alot.
    We will never be able to save all but we can educate them so some will not fall the trap and others that do go ahead they will be more educated from the start and maybe leave the marriage faster.Either way they will not be in the dark so I am thankful for that.

  • Umair

    August 28, 2015

    Sabrina is right in saying that that their sisters or daughters will be killed in honour killing.

    Gail,point are so right,that it looks like she is born in Pakistan from start,about the value of white skin & blue eyes,blonde hair beauty.The women use fair & lovely creams as dark colour is not preferred.

    Sabrina,is right about the women fighting over property & money,as daughter in law is considered a threat.Mother in law,always keeping eye on husbands financiers.

    Sabrina,which political party is he from, PTI?Yes even in Pakistan marriage proposal is throughly checked,this is out of country,culture marriage.Yes,the family is on it,that if one son goes,whole family or whole villages can come.He is setting up the base.Note:look at the Refugees & Illegal Immigrants coming to Europe(Greeve/Italy),is from the Gujrat area,predominantly villages.So area to area matters a lot in Pakistan or city to city.

    Again,I am not like it to don’t have my wife had the phone,but I am from Lahore from a very affluent area with studied in elite private schools/colleges in Pakistan,so I am well settled with so many servants.But mobile is a basic requirement now a days.I am not that doubtful about my wife,if I have.

    There were many Pzr frauds done in 80″s & 90’s,but now it’s different.It’s really sad to know,that women who reverted to Islam,had such a bad encounter with Islam.

    Zahra,did you tell him,you have 2 children from previous marriage? Is he going to accept them?23 yrs of age a person is not ready to accept his/her own,let alone someone’s else.Severe the contact run like your feet is on fire the other way!

  • Sabrina

    August 28, 2015

    Where ever you meet someone if it net through family or whatever their nationality, its important to be careful and check them out properly. My friend was arranging a marriage with someone she meet on a dating site. He came to the UK a few times to meet her and her family. They did the first part of the marriage contract at the masjid. Last August she visited him in US, they were having problems but they still decided to marry he flew to UK December to get married when she decided it wasn’t the right thing to do he killed her. He strangled her in a hotel room. We will miss her forever, he didn’t need a visa just obsessed by her.

  • Sabrina

    August 28, 2015

    Hi I haven’t been commenting on here for a long time because I didn’t know if I was still in a polymous marriage or not. Im married to a Pakistani he is pushtoon he is married to his cousin and have 3 children. October I’m going to visit him in Kuwait where he is living to see if we can fix things.
    I been reading the comments this morning for those ladies chatting to Pakistani men on the net and they are telling you they love you or saying how you are already their future wife they are deceiving you. Gail has it spot on they wouldn’t let their sisters talk to men on the net like that its counted as zina. Also they don’t think of love like we do, they don’t usually do love marriage. The mother arranges the girl he is too marry.
    My husband had been married to his cousin for 11 years before we meet, this week we been married for three years. Before we married he asked permission off his sister (because his mother had already passed). The reasons he asked to marry me 1. I’m British, first night I said to him you want a visa and made fun of him. 2. What he considers my status, when we meet I was then on Board of Directors of a Charity and teacher. 3. I know how they consider women and there was no way I was going to keep chatting to him casually on the net. So he went to his sister then asked me to marry him, first of I declined. My husband was very honest about being married to his cousin and having children. We both accept each other and are at peace with each other. I would never expect him to divorce her the stigma would be terrible for her. The children call me UK mama. If you are chatting to one on the net who tells you he is not married or there is no arranged marriage waiting for him he is lying. Gail understands them perfectly, its about benefiting the family as a whole. If it means allowing one of the sons to marry to get to the west for a better future that’s fine. But for accepting you as a equal never, Pakistani women are always too worried about property and money. Pakistani mothers also can see Pakistani daughter in laws as a threat when it comes to the sons income.
    What my husband tells me any woman talking like that on the net or who even has a phone they see as a low. My co-wife is not even allowed a phone, this when we start auguring when I know he has since spoken to Pakistani women on the net. I feel like I am sticking up for my co-wife and myself. Listen to Gail and Umair, If you asking if he is marrying you for a green card yes most definitely, especially if he met you on the net. If I could turn back time I wouldn’t of married him, but now its all complicated all his family knows, the children even though they are not mine I got attached to. This week he told members of his political party he belongs too, that he has a British wife but he told them he had arranged the marriage via my father hahahah. He be too ashamed to tell them he had approached me without my father and via social media. The fourth reason he asked me was because I did not have no pictures up on the net. Another thing they look down on. Past 18 months I have been working in a womans refuge for ethnic minorities. If I tell any Pakistani lady I married to a Pakistani especially a Pushtoon the look they give is not good. I would go with Umair’s advice and just visit friends don’t rush in to it.

  • Umair

    August 28, 2015

    I have to commend Gail,as she knows Pakistan inside out.

    To the girl who asked the question,you are being used big time for Green Card(US Citizenship),i am telling you as a Pakistani.He is going to marry you,use you & divorce you after getting the nationality.I know how will that feel,the area & family matters a lot from Pakistan(Which Area(City/Village) is he from…But there are every type of people in every country,like Kardashians in U.S.

    Pakistani’s marries Virgin girls or cousins as rightly said by Gail,Divorcee women with baggage(2-3 children) is never liked & frowned upon,considering this is his 1st marriage & don’t have his own baggage(2-3 children) from his marriage.He will never be the step father as a real father or mother no matter what.

    Gail,is absolutely right,he is 23 yrs old you are 30 yrs,he can’t be a ready made children responsibility,for that you need mature men/middle age in their 40’s -50’s to understand & have children.Gail is also absolutely right,that Shia Syed don’t marry outside their families(cousins),even in other sects like Shia/Sunni marriages.Every sign is infront of you & you are just blind.Just stop communicating,you don’t have any commitments.Cancel you flights to PK or go visit your friends in Pakistan as mentioned by you.Women don’t go alone in these countries.Gail is spot on,i was reading her comments,is amazed as she has spent time in Pakistan!http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

  • Gail

    August 28, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    I prayed to G.D last night about u because I am deeply concerned u being a single mother fixing to take off to Pakistan.I was so much hoping G.D would speak to u and Thanks to G>D he did.I am very relieved.Listen that boy did nothing of the sort to cut his engagement off.He is 23 he is really young.As much as I know most men don’t marry until after 25 my husband married first time at 29 and his younger brother was 30 his older brother was over 25 I know.I will not say it is the rule but I think normally the boys r a little older so that is another clue.If I had to guess he is engaged to marry a cousin so the plan was to hook u and get immigration then divorce u.Pakistani woman as a whole don’t accept polygamy so I don’t see how he would have kept u because for sure he would marry back in Pakistan after immigration.
    Don’t feel bad or stuck I think u r amazing and G.D will send u someone.I just can not for the life of me see a 23 yr old pakistani boy going to take on the responsibility of stepdad.Nope can’t see it because those boys to not grow up until their dad dies and they r forced to grow up otherwise they will be 40 and acting like a kid

  • anabellah

    August 27, 2015

    @Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    It’s funny; I was just writing to you when Ummof4 was. I agree with her 100%. I know how lonely it must get to be a single mom, and not have a husband as a companion. I understand how difficult it is when it comes to finding a man who will love you and your children. As Ummof4 said, men in the United States marry women with children. My stepdad married my mom and she had four. My husband was married and divorced, before he met and married me. The woman whom he was married to was ten years older that he was and had three very young children. Men in the U.S marry women with children all the time.

    I am very much concerned about you, as you know you have intended yourself to a man from a culture in which many of those men are known to use women for the benefit of themselves and their families. They only want a Green Card/Immigration status/a ticket to the U.S, Canada or anywhere out of Pakistan. They are known to feed off women and take them for all they’ve got.

    If you want to put yourself out there, and take a chance of getting burned, no one can stop you. We could only warn you. If I were you, I wouldn’t care how much money I lost on getting a Visa or how angry that man will be when you break the engagement. I suggest you not marry that man and thank Allah much that he saved you from the immense pain and heartache you possibly was about to experience. You better think again, if you think the man is head over heels in love with you for you and your children. Be wise. Be smart. Don’t think with your heart.

  • ummof4

    August 27, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum Zahra,

    Based on what I have learned in my 62 years of living, I would advise you not to go to Pakistan and not to marry him. You can probably find a nice Muslim man to marry that is closer to home. If you are in the United States, many Muslim men do marry women with children.

    May Allah protcect us all from the evil of jinns and mankind.

  • Gail

    August 27, 2015

    Ana,

    It also makes me very angry as well.I don’t even know if love is blind as much as simply uneducated.I truly don’t know but what I do know is that most women have a deep desire to be loved and happily married.The sad part is they are not real particular when it comes to who the man is or his religion or culture because they think that the man loves them and this is a flawed concept.

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 27, 2015

    Asalam o Aleikum dear all.
    Last night i prayed to my Allah with tears in my eyes asking for a sight and here is the response Alhamdulillah ! He never leaves me alone when my life is about to change badly in next days.
    I am latina 29 years old single mom of 2 and indeed you here sisters are telling the tru story of my life. Im shocked all u say is just the sad truth. He is syed from a village on Gujrat hes 23 hes single no kids yet and i had been talking with the family in my possibilities cos they speaks punjabi and i just spanish and english. Last week that guy phoned my mom and ask my hand from her ! My whole family days i m crazy for that relationship without meet each other in person. He sent me sponsor letter thats why i got visa easily for going to pak and i was thinking all of this was a beautiful true love story (here in my country men never pick and risk for woman with kids) :( i saved my money for the trip in secret from my people cos nobody willing i go there but im being much blind snd brainless i think.. the punjabi boy said to me he already broke his engagement for me and he swerve for ALLAH he really loves me and want to spend whole life with me. I am a blonde woman white skin good look im thin and very lovable with him i am learned and prepared with own house cars and i pay my all bills by myself with hard work Alhamdulillah and I feel in need to help him in economic way cos my almighty will reward me as soon. I also have 2 friends in islamabad who told me dont come alone here please ! Is not a good place for single woman but they dont tell me the reason despite they coulf figure it out the reality. I found that place and yours cos is my ALLAHS wish im here with big open eyes confused and dissapointed with my heart totally broken realizing all that mess where i had beed catched. I have no words for that. I spend money in my Visa and how i will say to him no now i m not coming to pakistan he will anger on me and doing abuse i will not see him again ….Allah Hafiz

  • anabellah

    August 27, 2015

    Gail,

    Wow, you reminded me of what my wali said today. I sometimes tell him stories of what’s happening to people on the blog. Today he stopped me cold, and said he don’t want to hear it. He said he hate when people take advantage of the weak. He was disgusted. Here men are supposed to take care of women, but they use and abuse them. Zahra does have all the warning signs right in front of her, but she doesn’t want to see them. Love is blind. SMH

  • Gail

    August 27, 2015

    Ana,

    Do u see what I mean these Pakistani men paint the woman a picture of a life of paradise.Did u notice Zahra Gujar said she will go there marry him and come back to work to apply his immigration.He is smart because he knows he has to have a sponsor so he has all planning and has told her straight but she is stuck in the fantasy even begging for a sign when all the signs are right in front of her.
    I am sure she is a wonderful person and this is what makes it all the more disgusting because the women love the men and they just can’t believe that a man they truly love would use them.
    There is a real need to educate woman about facts verses feelings.I am a firm believer that u can’t always go by your feelings u need to see the facts and see if your feelings line up with the facts if they don’t line up “Houston we a problem”.
    I admit I am one of the lucky ones that my husband did not divorce me but u of all people know what I have been through trying to live with a man that used me for immigration and then sprung polygamy on me and all the while trying to raise my kids.
    It is killing me to see so many women dying for love only to get taken advantage of.They have no idea what trap awaits them.
    I want to be clear I have no problem with a man wanting to leave his country because he wants to immigrate for a better future.What I do have a problem with is these men preying on innocent women.

  • anabellah

    August 26, 2015

    Zahra Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    All I can think about your situation is to say wow and I wouldn’t want to be ya. Your situation to me screams GREEN CARD and a nightmare waiting to happen. I feel ya, but can’t reach ya. My heart cries for you. I think you should run from that man like your shoes are on fire and don’t look back.

  • Gail

    August 26, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    I should not say that all Pakistani men marry cousins they do marry outside their families but as a rule they mainly marry cousins.U can ask him as well,More than likely his mom and dad r cousins or other brother and sisters have married cousins.Also in case u don’t know if he is Syed they don’t allow their woman to marry anyone but a Syed which is very strange and it is very very strict.My husband is Syed Shia and u better think because when u bring kids into the mix it is just another animal entire.Also in my opinion they don’t make good stepfathers.Thats from my own experience and hearing other women’s stories on the blog.So that is something to consider as well.

  • Gail

    August 26, 2015

    Zahra Gujar,

    Hi I am Gail and I read your post and I can totally tell from what u have spoken that this is a scam u r in.Do I know it 100% well no I am not G.D/Allah but I will tell u this if he told u straight he wants to support his poor family that is the truth and u r the means(him telling u sweet nothing to rope u in)U r pig fixing to get slaughtered to be frank.
    Look u r a foreign woman with kids and Pakistani men only marry virgins and cousins marriages.Your not a virgin nor a cousin so then since u r not those 2 things then what r u to him except a greencard understand? These people never marry for love they say love will come after marriage sooo if he is telling u all these sweet nothings that is a sign within a sign.
    U r fixing to screw up royally in my opinion.I will also warn u Please Please Please if u do this and fly there then register with the American Embassy in Islamabad.U make copies of your passport and give to your mother or someone that u can trust and a recent picture of u,Your physical address and USA Embassy Islamabad contact info and u make a plan that if u do not call them every Monday then they r to contact Embassy.Will it help u I don’t know because Embassy there is a complete joke and for the most part is run by Pakistani people in the front.It is very hard to talk to an American assuming u r American is u r not then u need to give your countries embassy contact info understand.
    U need to understand that it is possible that u can be sold into prostitution when u get there or he will take your passport and u will be stuck with no means to get back to USA.I kid u not that country is nothing what u r thinking.
    I imagine he wants Immigration because 90% if not more young men are fishing on the internet for foreign wives to immigrate and get there family out of Pakistan.]
    Also I want to tell u if u do decide to this u flat tell him u want written on the Nika a huge amount if he divorces you.Put something huge like 200,000 USA dollars but go online and figure out in rupees so that he tries to divorce u and u want the money at the time of divorce.
    I don’t know if u would ever get it but do that and see what he says.Also make darn certain u make that a huge number of at least 200,000 USA dollars.
    I would not chance what u r fixing to do since u have children to be frank.Also keep in mind u r really not in love with this man.U have not met him in person and no amount of internet time or phone will prepare u for what u r fixing to face.
    It is game for them to get out of Pakistan and nothing more.I am sorry u got caught in this mess.U say he is paying for everything yes of course this is part of the game as well.They will pay for everything is they can afford because they know marriage is a sure way to walk out so it is but a small investment.U r a cow being led to the slaughter my dear.
    Also does he have a wife and kids of his own what is his age??? Please choose wisely you and your kids lives depend on it.
    I was lucky and my husband has stuck with me but my life has not been a picnic and I have had to go through hell and back.Please stay with the blog!

  • Zahra Gujar

    August 26, 2015

    Asalam l Aleikum @Gail @anabellah !
    Oh my God Oh my God ! Didnt come here since my first post in June 9th. But im shocked for which you both kindly wrote to me . Mainly Gail you are all right ! Ses you are telling my own story and i am much scare than before.
    Embassy gave me the Visa . I have all ready for trip to paistan meet my guy and marry him but still having fears doubts and nightmares thinking all of this is a big lie. I really love him so much he has lot of future plans with me and my 2 kids here but hes trying to move to canada and settle there with us. He said it openly : i wanna help my poor family my dream is being with you and travel everywhere with you and my kids (mine) .
    He writes me everyday all the time. He cares me and loves me on whatsapp all the time i also talk with both of his brothers and cousins all seems perfect like a dream. He planning my wed suit. He nevr asking me for money . Im independant and solvent. He will pay my tickets to Pakistan .. oh My Allah give me a sign it is true please lead me !! Im going to leave my parents my job my country for him. His plan is i go we marry i come back and apply for bring him here. Im blinded im so innocent please brothers help me . How a sweet punjabi (sample man) can do bad with a good woman who loves him and respect him..:( by the way i accept Islam from other person 2 years ago before i meet him my Shia guy but i made shahadat as Sunni… please brother and sister im about to fly in one month. Fee Imaan Allah.

  • anabellah

    August 26, 2015

    @Lyn, Hello http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    Your question is too general. Anyone can be rude, regardless of their race, nationality, gender, color or creed. Are you asking if a whole nation of Pakistani men are rude? I’d have to say no.

    Maybe you could be more specific in your question. As it is it is too broad.

  • Lyn

    August 26, 2015

    Is tHe pakistani mens are rude?

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @American Girl,

    It was nice to meet you and to chat with you. I’m hopeful you have learned a lot, especially from the ladies here who are very familiar with the culture and the men in Pakistan. I don’t think there is a whole lot more that anyone here can add.

    I know you have deep feelings for the man, and want to believe that you are the exception to the rule. Time will tell. We are here if you’d like to chat some more. You will have to live life and see where it takes you and if it is with him. :-)

  • Gail

    August 19, 2015

    American Girl,

    U r a meal ticket for him so of course he will try to keep u on the hook.Listen they never talk about immigration up front they wait until wayyyy later on or after marriage they never say upfront because they know u would connect the DOTS.They have to get the love hook in bait and set the trap very well and know that they have your undying loyalty then they will very sweetly get around to all that Jazz.
    I hope we helped u to at least become aware of Pakistani culture and cousin marriages and fake court divorces but staying married through religion etc….

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    You guys rock!!!! But please read my comment to @ana at 2am. Lol I’m trying to see what type of person I allowed myself to get involved with. I say things to him to end the relationship he doesn’t want to bcuz he says he’s not lying n will show me whatever to prove it. I don’t know anything about Islam or Pakistan so that’s dust in the wind. Anyways I really do thank you guys for allllllll the feedback. It was very helpful n u are amazing!!!!!! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_heart.gif

  • Gail

    August 19, 2015

    Spirited,

    I agree with Ummoff4 don’t stay away so long and give us a report when u can of what is going on in your life these days.I think of u often also and wonder how your getting along.

  • ummof4

    August 19, 2015

    Assalaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Spirited, it’s so good to hear from you. I think of you often and make du’ah for you. I pray your life is calm, peaceful and you are able to worship Allah in the way that He is to be worshipped. You gave some good information to American Girl.
    Try not to stay away from your sisters too long(Even though I feel more like an auntie to you). We missed you.

  • Gail

    August 19, 2015

    American Girl,

    Again I will say he is lying to u.I don’t know any Pakistani woman that would not want kids that is absurd.That is a new one on me.Listen u r just not getting it and I don’t know how to make u understand.Pakistan is a country where anything goes and there is no real law and order it is a rogue country.He can show u a paper that says he is divorced it can be real or fake.In my case my husbands divorce papers were real but that did not matter because he kept her Islamically as his wife.This means that they r divorced legally but not religiously so they r still married without the piece of paper so that frees the husband up to marry a foreign woman in these cases.
    It happens there because it happen to me and I lived 8 years before my husband came clean and admitted the truth to me.
    Now he is flat out lying to u about his wife not wanting kids.U r not getting it in Pakistan to a woman the worst thing that could happen is getting a divorced.Everyone blames the woman even if it is not her fault they will tell her she did not know how to keep her husband.The reason why a woman sees divorce so hard and will do ANYTHING most of the time to not divorce is because her and her family know it will be very hard if not impossible to find a husband never mind a good husband since she is divorced and not a virgin anymore.
    U can’t sit on the computer and figure out if he lying to u or not u can only listen to what I and the others are telling u like Ana,Spirited,Ummoff and Mai2 might chime in at some point.Do u think we r lying or that u r the exception to the rule? Everytime u talk to him and he sucks u in a little more u better understand u r digging a hole a little deeper for yourself everytime u chat with him.I really just don’t know what else to say on this topic other than u really r playing with fire and u will get burned I have no doubt in it.
    Some people like playing with fire and not listening to other and having to learn the hard way and only u know if u r that type of person.
    Also lets say against all odds he is telling the truth but for sure my heart says he is lying because I don’t know a muslim Pakistani woman that does not want kids and tell her husband this after marriage that is retarded and a clear sign he is not only a liar but a horrible liar at that.lol
    As far as him not being on the internet that much chances they did not pay the internet bill or he did not have money for cards or he was gone to visit family in the village.It will be one of those reasons.
    Spirited explained to u very well she has a great way with words and getting her point across.
    As far as the Pakistani Guy here in the blog said to ask neighbors etc and knowone in Pakistan marries without investigation that is true but when u r a foreigner that would do no good because u don’t know anyone and people there lie and that would not be an avenue u could pursue with any real expectation of finding anything out.
    Soooo that leave u with either believing what we r saying and walk away or u trusting on him and taking the plunge it really is your life your choice and if u choose to not listen and pursue him that is fine because that just means u will be back in a few years joining us trying to deal with Polygamy and that my dear is a fact u can take to the bank.lol
    Polygamy is not a bad thing in fact most of us really support polygamy but if u are a 100% u do not and would not every consider polygamy then u r barking up the wrong tree with this man because again lets say he is not lying for sake of argument his mother or parents will insist he remarry another cousin at some point down the road so just know that u r not dealing between u and your husband alone u would be marrying his entire family and his MOM which he believes “Heaven is under his mothers feet or some nonsense”Which means if he goes against his mom he thinks he will go to hell or not go to heaven.These people are all about their families because they r raised that way so again I say choose wisely otherwise u can take a seat next to me here on the blog in a few years and try to stop other woman from making the same mistake.It’s your choice.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    I meant they’d be scared to death, if they Truly believed there is a Hell Fire. The Quran is thorough and complete in the description of the Hell Fire. It makes me cry when I read about it. It’s chilling and shocking.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You’re ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Some men who call themselves Muslims are going to do exactly what they want to do. They don’t give a flip about Islam. They will marry whomever suits their fancy, whomever they are attracted to. They don’t care if the woman is Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddish, Wiccan or what. We know they find whatever Imam or scholar is out who will say they may marry any woman they want. Islam let them satisfy their wants and desires with woman as long as it’s a woman. It’s all they need to hear.

    I couldn’t believe when I was ready to marry. I met this Egyptian guy. He wanted to do everything the non-Muslim way. He actually came out his face and said it to me. Here I am trying to do everything according to Islam. It took me talking to him one time to know he was not the husband for me. He’s up there asking me to go dancing and have drinks. I find that many of the men who call themselves Muslims want to get away from Islam. They don’t want Islam. They want to live this worldly life. It’s all that matters to them. They really don’t care about Jannah/Paradise. They don’t believe in it in their hearts. If they believed, they’d be scared sh!tless.

  • Spirited

    August 19, 2015

    Salaam gang,

    @Ana, lol no problemo. Oh yep, you’re right about the more specific definition of who Muslim men are allowed to marry, but realistically, we all know most men don’t give a flying flip and do what they want. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif Its their problem in the end anyhow.

    @American Girl, it’s cool you’re getting all the info you need. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif. He might be waiting on his finalization in courts, which is more like a gesture to be in line with the way western countries do things, but Islamically if he’s said he divorces her, its done. Pakistan is a religious country, so that is usually enough for him to be able to marry again. The waiting period is also only 3 months unless the wife is pregnant (which I assume she is not). It is a good idea to have the court paperwork anyways, just in case.

    I really don’t find much weight in the documents he might send you or his claims of love. He could be telling the same to another woman, or many other women. Like I said, we’ve all seen it before. The documents, also, could be forged, gotten through bribing corrupt officials or just plain fake. I actually know a woman who this happened to about 3 years ago. Her husband wanted out of the country and had been secretly having an affair on skype with an American woman. He got all the divorce paperwork and whatever else he needed and married the American woman without ever saying a word to his wife (who he was still actually married to because he never really divorced her). When she eventually found out, she left him and took their daughter, got a divorce herself. I met up with her on a recent trip to Pakistan and she is re-married now. Her ex-husband’s attempt at scamming another woman failed also and he is still in Pakistan as well.

    No one can say what this person you’re speaking to is truly like. He might really not be fishing for a way to get to the US. He might actually be happy in the UK although if a Pakistani man has the option between the UK or the US, he will prefer the US because our standard of life is better here. Plus, they consider the UK as becoming too familiar (so very many Pakistanis and Indians have moved there). I have family in London, England and parts of Germany and Spain. Its funny to hear them tell it.

    In any case, you will do what you have to do. He might be ok. He might not be. All I know is, if it was someone important to me, I would never let them get into a mess with a Pakistani from Karachi, with all this unnecessary stuff to boot, that’s for darn sure. Also, that saying, “follow your gut instinct” is usually a good idea, so long as you’re using your brain and not just falling for the sweet talk. You have doubts, so who knows, maybe you’d be better off with someone else. I can’t say. Up to you http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_smile.gif

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    @spirited

    Thx so much. He was living in Dubai not anymore. Read my previous post on the reason why. Ok so he contacted me around 2am. And said he was indeed waiting on his divorce to be final. He went on about how it in Islam there is a waiting period etc…. He said its bn some 6 months now. He also said they separated 3 months after marriage because she doesn’t want kids and they had a big fight. I haven’t asked about the cousin wife thing. I’m trying to figure out a way to ask n not sound like I’m disgusted. So maybe he will be honest. He said once his case is over he will email me all proof documents etc. he’s still expressing his love for me n said “even if u don’t believe me I love u n want u in my life” hmmm what u u think of all that spirited

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    One ayah alone; although there are NUMEROUS ones in the Holy Quran lets us know Muslim are to marry only Muslims.

    Allah says:

    “Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.” Holy Quran: Surah 2, ayah 221

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Hello Everyone,

    I re-read my post about Muslims marrying non-Muslims. I changed the title. I made some slight revisions to make it read better, as well. Sometimes I read my post/threads later and ask myself if I even proofed them before hitting “publish” http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif

    http://www.polygamy411.com/muslim-men-marry-non-muslim/

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @Spirited, As Salaamu Alaikum http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    I’m so happy you popped in to chat with us. It’s so weird; when I mentioned to “American Girl” about the people who would know about Pakistani culture, I forgot you are Pakistani. How crazy is that http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wacko.gif I just remembered that coco is as well.

    Thank you very much for speaking to “American Girl” about the culture. It was very nice of you.

    I need to make one major correction, you said that Muslim men are permitted to marry any woman as long as she raises the children Muslim. A lot of Imams and scholars are feeding people that erroneous information.

    Allah only permits a Muslim, whether the Muslim is male or female, to marry a Muslim. Throughout the entire Quran, Allah lets us know that a Muslim shouldn’t be intimate with, take heed to, marry or have children by non-Muslims. I wrote a post on it, but it doesn’t cover a fraction of all the ayat (verses) in the Quran that lets us know it. Some of the ayat directly pertain to marriage with them and other pertains to dealing with non-Muslims in general, which lets a Muslim know marriage to them is unacceptable.

    The link to my post is: http://www.polygamy411.com/muslim-men-marry-non-muslim/

    Allah doesn’t tell Muslim they could marry the very people who reject him and turn away from Him – the very people He will send to the Hell Fire. He says the non-Muslims would lead a Muslim astray. He did not say “may”, “possibly will” or anything like it. He says “WILL”. A Muslim is going to follow the non-Muslim’s lead and we’ve seen it here with some of the non-Muslim females who are married to Muslim males. The “Muslim” male follows the non-Muslim woman’s way and raise their children to be non-Muslims.

    I think the scholars and Imams who says it is allowed for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women are just looking out for the desires and wishes of men who want to be able to marry any woman whom they want.

    A believing man would never dream of marrying a non-Muslim who doesn’t serve Allah and one who commits shirk (setting up partners with Allah, for instance saying Jesus is Allah’s son) or who doesn’t believe in Allah at all, or loose women who have sex with men other than their husbands while married, etc.

  • Spirited

    August 19, 2015

    Salaam everyone!

    Got a chance to pop in, and I noticed something American Girl mentioned hasn’t been addressed, so I thought I’d try my hand at it.

    @American Girl, hello! You said a few times that this guy told you he couldn’t engage in polygamy without certain “conditions.” He’s probably referring to Pakistani Law that requires a wife’s written consent to have more than 1 wife (I think the penalty for not having consent is just a monetary fine? I’m not sure about this part). HOWEVER, that’s pretty much pointless. 99% of the actual laws in Pakistan are BS because no one follows them. All you have to do is bribe the official you’re dealing with and no problems. (its not even a big bribe, a few hundred dollars worth is enough most of the time). Besides that, the guy can forge his wife’s signature. Or, he can go to a different district and get a different Imam (religious leader in charge of marriages) to officiate his 2nd, 3rd or 4th marriage without anyone finding out. And of course, if he marries outside Pakistan, no one would ever even know.

    Essentially, he’s just feeding you a bunch of aged BS. You also seem to be insistent that he’s divorcing his wife. Unless you’re in the court or know the wife and can confirm – again – he’s just feeding you BS. Pakistani men talk A LOT about how they thirst for [western, non-muslim] love, and “oh poor me, I’m so lonely, boo hoo” “I was forced into it, I swear, I don’t love her” We’ve all heard this before.

    Also, and this is straight from people LIVING IN PAKISTAN, be very careful of people from Karachi. Karachi is known as “where the garbage of Pakistan comes out of” (and that’s from people living IN the country, even people who have lived in the city).

    Another thing I wanted to mention, essentially he CAN marry you. It doesn’t matter in Islam if the woman is a different religion as long as the man is Muslim because the man is supposed to make sure his children by her are raised Muslim (though in practice that hardly ever happens). It’s usually the kind of men who aren’t very religious in the first place who marry non-muslims anyway, so its doubtful God or religion matters to them at all. They’re all about “me, me, me” (However, for your own information — it IS forbidden for a Muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man). Religion most certainly isn’t on his mind, considering he’s basically having an (emotional) affair already. This is a point of concern for any Muslim who is a religious person, and not at all an attack on you :). Being an online lover may be all well and good as far as you’re concerned, but its preposterous as far as any decent Muslim is concerned.

    And lastly, what struck me as odd is that if he’s been living in Dubai, why is he spouting off about hating Pakistan and wanting to go to more western countries? Dubai is extremely modern. Beautiful place to live, good infrastructure, very “western” feel, some really cool cutting edge stuff there too and plenty of money being made. Pakistan, yes, it’s pretty bad there. Multiple power outages every day (because aid money being sent to improve things goes directly into the black hole that is politicians’ pockets), very low wages (some people make the equivalent of $5/month), liars and cheaters as far as the eye can see (some good folk in there, but hard to find), poor general infrastructure, garbage anywhere and everywhere (no structured garbage disposal system), etc.

    I feel, like the other women said, he thinks he’s got you on the hook and now he’s trying to slowly reel you in without you noticing until you’re in his catch bucket ready to be cut open. The absolute best course of action would be to cut and run, in my opinion.

    I also wanted to make a counter-point to what try-hard pakistani men defender Umair said — just “checking up” on a pakistani man does jack-squat. As mentioned, Pakistan is full of liars and cheaters. To wit, the people in a guy’s community or those who he knows that a person may check with and ask questions of could be
    1. paid off to tell only good things
    2. hate the person being asked about and will lie

    My parents are Pakistani, but obviously from a different generation. They thought Pakistani muslims were among the best people on earth (and back in the old days, they most likely were). It should be very telling when they remember times that shopkeepers who kept beards (a sign of a pious muslim) were the ones to trust, who wouldn’t scam you — but nowadays, those are the very shopkeepers to avoid like the plague because if you deal with them, you and your wallet will be in for a ride.

    Of course the disclaimer exists that there are still (veeeeery few) good Pakistanis out there, hiding amongst all the trash. Anywho, my two cents on the matter. We just give out information based on experience. What anyone does with it is up to them. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    @ana that’s my plan n I will update here

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @ American Girl,

    I apologize. I just realized I was calling you the wrong name. It wasn’t intentional. I understand your last post. I’m going to try to get some sleep now. It’s almost 3:00 a.m. It was nice chatting with you. Chat with you later God willing. :-)

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    @ana

    After the wife stuff I have lost interest in him. But I still want to know something’s. It’s not a waste to me bcuz I really did like him but now I’m curious as to what kind of person I allowed myself to get involved with. Seeing I knew absolutely NOTHING about the culture n etc before coming to this blog. We never discussed their culture. The only thing I mentioned was multiple wives n he said that’s not just something they can do. N I left it at that.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    You are the only one who will find out if he is lying or not, so let us know what you find out, if you feel so inclined.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    It seems a total waste of time to me, if you have no other interest in finding out if he’s lying or not other than you just want to know, if he’ s the same as others. If you have no romantic interest in him and are not working on a research paper, it makes absolutely no sense.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    So you are putting all this time, trouble, effort and energy in the matter just to see if he fits the profile?

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    @ana

    Actually I was trying to compare him to the Pakistani men u describe here. Polygamy marriage to cousins etc…. Obviously his divorce was going on b4 we started conversing. If he get a divorce because he’s unhappy that’s his business. But I’m not hoping anything.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    It’s not a matter of being right. Be honest with yourself. Based on everything you have said, it sounds that you want him to divorce his wife cuz you want him. You want him all to yourself so he and you could be in a romantic relationship – just the two of you. It’s why you’re hanging around waiting for him and hoping he’s not lying to you. Get out of your imagination.

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    Wow…. Ok I guess u don’t get it so I’ll just leave it at that. I’m not going to continue to try to explain anything. So @ana u right I’m sure u like to be told that!!!!!!

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    People lie all the time, all day and night. What difference does it make whether he is lying or not?

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    I doubt you could help anyone try to live a good, wholesome life of peace and contentment by saying you’re involved (talking) with a married man who you don’t intend to marry, but hope he is not lying and he will divorce his wife so you could get with him for some reason – what’s the reason?

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    And again @ana I’m trying to figure out how I can get the truth out of him to help the next person. I thought maybe sharing it here might help me distinguish between the truth n a lie n what kind of proof he might could show me etc… To help the next person.

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    Since I’m being so judged here and hasn’t done anything but have a conversation with his man I’ll leave this blog bcuz obviously I’m being misunderstood. I was going to update everything here for the next person who experience something similar can see what I found out. He can’t toy with me. It’s not that serious. I just want to know n to possibly help someone else…. Gosh

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    Okay, American Woman, carry on. I think you have been dismissing most of what Gail has explained to you. I have no idea why you’d want to pursue the guy. Even cattle heed warning.

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    @ana

    Didn’t I say he’s mentioned divorce m court? And before then he told me he wasn’t married or seperated or whatever. All this wife causing a problem from him crap came up in the last week n I haven’t talked to him. He may not ever contact me. I’ll never be someone’s whore!!!! Don’t get it twisted. He’s said to me like he doesn’t want her etc….

    The reason I stressed the marriage thing is because I see everyone saying they use us to get citizenship etc… But he’s never mentioned USA to me. Ever. All he says is he wants out of that country so he can see me n he’s trying hard to get visas elsewhere. So the trying to marry for citizenship part in my opinion didn’t apply. Again I haven’t heard fr him I’m almost a week when we used to talk everyday. So I’m not sure as of yet what the prob his wife has made. I’m thinking maybe she found out he was talking to me or something. But he said give him sometime to fix his life. @ana I just trying to harmlessly figure something’s out before anything transpired between us.

    @umm he’s in Karachi

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    American Woman,

    I think you are missing the point. How would you like it if you were married and your husband was with some other woman expressing his love to her? I doubt you’d like it or would tolerate it. So, why do you want to mess with that woman’s husband, if you have no intention to marry him? It’s why American & European women get labeled as cheap, easy hoes (whore). As Gail stated I think the man is toying with you. Why should you care whether he is lying to you or not? What difference does it make? You don’t have any interest in marrying him, so you say. Do you want to be his whore, if he is not lying?

  • American Girl

    August 19, 2015

    @ana

    The adultery n fornication comments are irritating me. Now that I’m skeptical of him lying NO I WILL NOT MARRY HIM. As I mentioned we have deep conversations about love and yes I was somewhat falling for him. That’s why I’m here to try n figure out how I can tell if he’s lying (if that’s even possible) about getting a divorce. Like I said fornication or adultery cannot be committed over internet.
    As I mentioned I’m not Muslim so I don’t think marriage would be the case but u never know. Also even if I was to continue to converse with him I still want to know if he’s a liar. If so I’ll end it. That’s all. So please understand I’m just trying to figure out if he’s lying first n foremost. From there I’ll update everyone about the relationship. Basically I’m not trying to commit anything just want answers (if possible) and then go from there.

  • anabellah

    August 19, 2015

    @Umair,

    Sorry it took so long for your comment to get approved. It went into Spam because you included an email address in it. Many times I just delete spam without checking it. Alhumdulliah, I checked this time and found your post. The email address was removed because it is a blog policy that we don’t exchange emails here.

    I’m going to take a break. Insha Allah, I’ll be back to read your comment. Thank you much for commenting! I appreciate it very much.

  • Umair

    August 18, 2015

    @ American Girl,i can translate the Urdu Docs.Send me on my email.

    One thing i have noticed that women who are complaining at equal fault in this fiasco.In Pakistan do you think someone will give his or her sister or daughter without checks,that’s the job of the brothers & father(If he is NOT that old) to get the checks where in a household they are having a relation.But there advantage is that they are familiar with Pakistan’s culture,even still FRAUD happens.

    Ask from the guy or girls neighbourhood or the people you know,what sort of the a human being s/he is?Which company s/he sits & stands.This is a pre requisite from having a relationship in any family.No one is that naive to DON’T do these basic checks and complain afterwards.Yes,Pakistani men marry for family,it’s a big part of their marriage,yes someone has to look for the parents in the old age if they are good enough,no old houses here.This is he duty of daughter in law as the daughters go to their houses if they get married.I will whole heartedly agree with Gail,as she has gone through it but it might be they are worse of the worse people she might have found in Pakistan.Where is the guy from,i mean city?Lahore,Karachi,Islamabad?

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    Okay, I’m caught up now on reading all the posts. Alhumdulliah. lst off, I’d like to openly apologize to Ummof4

    @Ummof4, I asked that you accept my apology for taking a position without having read the posts you commented on to “American Woman”. I see where you were coming from. I respect your position.

    @American woman

    You present a slight problem for us here in that you have no intentions of marrying the man whom you’ve been talking about. You are not intended to (engaged to) him. I don’t actually know what you’re doing with him. Do you know? Why are you investigating the man?

    As Ummof4 indicated, the women here are in polygamous marriages, were in polygamous marriages or are thinking about entering a polygamous marriage. You don’t fit in any of those categories.

    There IS good in you being here, and asking questions. The more questions asked, the more we all learn about how SOME Pakistani men are and we learn about the Pakistani culture. Other than it, I have no clue what you are doing wasting your time on some man who you have NO intention of marrying. You know he is a married man. If he is playing around with you and other women, he is committing adultery, which is a SERIOUS SIN. Ummof4 has let you know it and I’m letting you know it as well. I’m sure you don’t rightly care, neither does he. Ummof4 and I as Muslims would be remiss in our duty if we did not mention it to you.

    As I stated, it has been nice having you here because you are asking some very good questions that are generating conversation, that may help other women who are actually interested in polygamy and marriage to a Pakistani man. It may help those women who are already married to Pakistani men.

    There is no reason to ask you to leave. You are welcome to stay here with us. It’s just important that you know what this blog is about, as you continue…

    @Gail, I agree with you that it is important that we are all here for those who get caught up in a web of deception when they mix up with some Pakistani men who are of bad character. If any woman who intends to marry one of these smooth talking gents, it’s good that we could give them the heads up on them. No one can prevent anyone’s fate. We can only put the information out there. Thank you much, Gail, for being a wealth of information. You are very bright, intelligent, warm, but strong woman. I appreciate all the information that you share with me and everyone else here. I have learn a lot from you {{{hugs}}}

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @gail

    Wow I’m sorry to hear all that. You have bn through a lot I’m so glad u are very knowledgeable about this culture n these men. I’m sure u have saved a lot of heart aches n pain :)

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @ana

    Lol that made me laugh. No our relationship is not based on him being fine. I tell him he’s fine n he just says he don’t delight in himself so I dnt say it anymore. Our relationship is based off good conversations. He’s very intelligent n talks deeply about love. Never knew someone who acts like they need love n talks about how he’s been hurt etc. even on his fb page I’ve seen past post and mime pics about being hurt n broken. After he told me about court etc… I googled to see If they even had divorces in pak. I read it was common because most of their marriages are arranged and they try to make the marriage work and most of the time it doesn’t. But Gail says differently. So then I googled arranged marriages in pak to get an understanding about that and ran across marrying cousins n that’s how I ended up on your blog. Ultimately I’m trying to see if he’s lying to me. I’ll end the relationship if he is bcuz he has no reason to lie. I haven’t talked to him since he said “my wife made a prob for me, give me some time I’ll fix my life” I don’t know what that means

  • Gail

    August 18, 2015

    American Girl,
    Ana pretty much summed up what I went through and it was a living hell and it is still not over for me as it has just went to chapter 2 this year with my husband springing on me that he wants to marry our 3 youngest children to his brothers 3 children.I just went through Cancer surgery on top of everything else and I have several other health issues I am dealing with and I really relate all of it to me being so stressed out all the time.I can’t seem to get a moments peace in my life.
    As Ana stated I can’t translate for u do to the website policy but I will say this I feel like u r very interested in Pakistani culture and Pakistani men in general.All I can say is if u play with a snake long enough u r going to get bit at some point.
    Also don’t expect him to be the bible or Quran when u ask him questions like the truth is just going to flow like honey from his mouth.He will tell u as much as he wants u to know and he will sugar coat and lie about the rest of it.
    I use to think other cultures were so cool and exciting to learn about until i married into a different culture and got hit up over the head with culture shock like u could never imagine.
    One thing u have to understand about Pakistani culture they kill u with kindness.U will think they r the sweetest most sincere people in all the world and would do anything for u and they will feed your ego because that is how they bait their trap to get u under their thumb.After that it turns from feeding your ego all out manipulation.

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    @American Girl,

    The two people here who could help you understand the culture the best are Gail and Mari2. As Gail stated, she lived in Pakistan for years. She was in a polygamous marriage with her husband who was married to his cousin. She didn’t know it at first. Her in-laws live with her. She has been through a living Hell, so to say, in the course of all of it. She said her co-wife tried to poison her. There have been many ladies who have come here telling us how they were involved or are involve with Pakistani men who have lied to them, were married to their cousins, and kept it from them. Some have said their husbands went to Pakistan for a routine visit and came back saying their parents made them marry while there. They said they knew nothing about it until they got there. I’ve learned that these men and the cousins are promised to one another sometimes at birth. Gail’s husband wants her to marry their children to the cousin back home is Pakistan.

    My question to you is this. Are you basing your relationship with this man on him being “fine”? So, he’s good looking, big whip. Is it about his appearance and his sweet talk about you’re the only one for him and blah, blah, blah. It’s seems a bit superficial to me. You sound to be quite young. Are you ready to look like an old, weathered hag quick from chasing after this “fine” looking man? Based on what you know may be the circumstances, is it even worth you taking a chance on him? Once you’re married to the person those looks tend not to be as important anymore. You have to dig deeper than it.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @umm

    Hmmm ok. No I didn’t mean lovers on that way. Online lovers again no way to fornicate. But I understand now why u said that but definitely not. My main concern was polygamy part. I’m trying to figure that out Because I don’t want to be associated with anyone like that or anyone who has married their cousin. I’m waiting to hear from him because I have questions. And again all this info here is important to me. I don’t know anything about their culture. I asked him if they can have multi wives he said it not just something they can do. Implying it has to be certain circumstances then he went on to say he only wants one woman and that’s me. I’m trying to figure out if he’s lying to me about court divorce etc etc n I need you guys help bcuz u know the culture

  • ummof4

    August 18, 2015

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    American Girl, I did not throw in fornication as you stated, You threw it in when you said you were willing to be the Muslim man’s lover and friend, but not his wife. Fornication and adultery are just the legal terms for having sex without being married. Some people refer to it as being lovers if neither party is married or having an affair if one or both of the parties are married. Of course, you are free to live your life with the choices that you make, as we all are.

    I am not scolding you or trying to make you feel bad. I was just making sure that you knew that this polygamy blog is about polygamous marriage. It’s not just about Islam or being a Muslim. Non-Muslims come to this site all the time seeking advice about marrying Muslim men.

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    American Girl,

    I haven’t read all the comments yet. I’ve fallen behind. But I think ummof4 may have gotten the commentators mixed up. It was the commentator named he is my heart that said she would be willing to be his lover or not married to him. She is a Christian and is not Muslim. There is no compulsion in Islam. The way I see it, the commentator was merely stating what she was willing to do which is part of her story. Ummof4, please correct me if I’m wrong.

    We want writers to tell their story without feeling they will be chastised. We could give advice that is helpful without having a person feel she is being scolded.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @umm

    I’ve never even met this man n prob never will. How cute of u to throw fornication in. This blog has helped me understand something’s just in case I got emotionally involved which is not the case at this point. I’m comparing our Conversations to the things people are saying on his blog. The part about trying to marry a foreigner for citizenship I don’t think that is the case with him but I’m trying to figure out if he is part of polygamy. But like Gail said there is divorce in Pakistan so it doesn’t mean that he isn’t really going through a divorce so I’m trying to figure it out. So yes at this point I am not trying to marry this man but with us talking on the Internet fornication is not into Play in no Type of way

  • ummof4

    August 18, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    American Girl, I just want to remind you that this is a blog about polygamous marriage, not a blog for fornication. If you do not plan on marrying this man, please refrain from telling us that you would be willing to be his lover. We do not advocate sex outside of marriage for anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim.

    May Allah guide us all to the Seeratul Mustaqeem (The Straight Path).

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    @American Girl,

    Sorry, we can’t provide that service (translations) for you here. It’s part of our policy. I can’t recall off the top of my head, if I’ve included it or not officially in the blog rules. Nonetheless, we addressed the issue here before. We ask everyone to communicate only in English here other than to speak common Arabic words or phrases associated with Islam, such As Salaamu Alaikum and Insha Allah. One reason I’m strict about it is because I once had a Tweeter account for the blog that they suspended on me. People took over the blog sending Arabic stuff. I don’t have a clue what they were saying. I hope you understand. There are free translating services online.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @gail

    If u speak Urdu I need u to translate some stuff for me

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    Plz understand I’m not trying to marry this man. Oh yea he’s only been from Dubai around 9 months he had a gf there. But I saw on a friends page where he said ” I’m at _____ shadi” in January. So obviously when he got sent from Dubai he had an arranged marriage but idk I can’t wait to ask these questions because who gets married so quickly after being gone 10 years n now u don’t want her… Hmmm

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    I believe he’s a cheater and just doesn’t want to tell me. He said he has no children n reason being was that his wife got pregnant n had miscarriage after a couple months n from there she took birth control. I was hmmmm can they take birth control in that country? But anywho he said he hated her from then. Like I stated marriage is not in the equation. I never said I would leave the country with my kids to meet him. That’s absurd!!!! Oh his bro is all over fb as the news man so I’m pretty sure he is the coo of that news channel. He has interviews and everything on There

  • Gail

    August 18, 2015

    Ana,

    I try in my post to keep them as light as I can so I tend to use slang and puns here and there to lighten the post up so people will not think I am coming across rude.I really feel horrible for these woman and I know how it feels to know something just is not right but u can’t put your finger on it or connect the dots.I know for me personally I lived in a dark hole for 5 yrs and it was unbearable.I believe this blog is a light into that deep dark hole for so many woman.I think of us woman blogging here as ropes being cast down to other sisters in the dark hole saying hey u r not alone grab hold and we will pull u out just hang on for dear life and don’t let go.
    I don’t care what a woman’s religion or culture is when she is suffering and has children and can’t function because of he mental instability it cuts me to my very soul because I been there myself.
    I know I am no longer in Polygamy but thats ok if my story can help someone else then I will keep telling it.
    Also I am so thankful u have opened the blog to talk about Pakistani men and foreign woman.I will never be able to express to u how thankful I am to u for that as I feel we r getting the facts out there to the woman that need it most.I wish I had info like this before I had married my husband.I can’t say for sure if i would have chosen not to marry him but I would have been informed and had I known about cousin marriages I would have connected the dots very fast and chances r had I called him out I would not have suffered so many years in the dark I believe.

  • Gail

    August 18, 2015

    American Girl,

    Yeah I know KHI(Kirachi)I been through there on my way to Pindi a few times.It is a huge city.As far as knowing anything about his brother being over some news center well that could be true or not I have no idea of knowing.I believe he more than likely has lived in Dubai for 10 yrs as he claims.The part that don’t make any logical sense and I am sure u can see this is that he don’t know why he is getting divorced.I MEAN REALLY!!! WHen I asked my husband why he divorced his first wife guess what he told me the same thing and I said WTF how someone can get a divorce and don’t know why.I told him straight he better get the Hell real then he said she was greedy and wanted properties etc… all were lies to cover his A$$ and I wished I had not been so stupid at the time and just dismissed everything he said.
    Listen I will advise u to not tell a soul u r mixing up with a Pakistani man if your husband gets wind of this he may very well fight for full custody of your children and he might just win if he thought u would leave the country.I don’t know your personal situation but be careful who u tell about this Pakistani guy is my advice.
    All the men say they hate Pakistan and that is the reason they want to leave BUT as much as they claim they hate Pakistan they sure keep their culture when they go abroad to live.My husband swore to me we would American culture well guess what chicky No DICE! He ripped that carpet right out from under me as soon as we were married and I swear I can’t even hardly relate to American culture anymore since I have lived the last 12 yrs in Pakistani culture.
    As far as his wife goes u would be a nonissue as far as she is concerned.Pakistani woman know there husbands cheat on them and they accept it by hiding their feelings and saying they don’t like sex when there husband starts acting up to hide their personal shame so they can save face so to speak.No woman wants to look like a fool in front of her inlaws when everyone knows her husband has a GF or other wife.It is shameful for them.
    Also again she would not disturb him to much because thats just not their nature to do so as they don’t want to get beat or worse.
    Do u know if he has kids with his wife because I am assuming sense u have kids he is about your age and also has children with his wife and if he does then again chances of him divorcing r slim to none.I don’t want u to think divorces don’t happen in Pakistan they do but they r very rare still and I am for sure in the minority not the majority of white woman second marriage that her husband has left his first wife for.
    I want to clarify as well that my B@stard husband didn’t pick me over his 1st wife what happen was his first wife family married his sister to force him to divorce me.Now he would have divorced me but the problem was I adopted his son from his 1st marriage here in USA and I was raising his daughter from that marriage and we have a 10 yr old son together.Now all that said his 1st wife mother was abusing his sister that was married to 1st wife brother and they start figuring out there were trying to force him to divorce me all the while 1st wife was acting innocent like she knew nothing of such dealings LOL
    Anyway find out if his wife is his cousin and but him not knowing why he is getting a divorce REALLY that shows he is clearly either really stupid or don’t know what to say.

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @Gail

    When he said send for me he mean pay for my plane ticket. Lol. Please don’t think I’m in too deep into anything bcuz IM NOT!!!!! It’s all just crazy to me. I’m only stated facts of our conversations. Trust me @ana I’m not a fool. He has only talked about getting a visa to UK or turkey n wanting me to come visit when he gets there. I wouldn’t marry him anyway. I’m not Muslim. I think he would be a great friend. He said he has a very successful business in Dubai and his sponsor ended up taking it. Does that happen? I would never marry him!!!!!!! But as a friend if he has a business venture n wants to come USA. As I friend I would help him to come to USA but that’s a long shot. I came on this thread because I do like him but for marriage…. NOT. I really just realized this was for marrying a paki man. That’s not something I’m trying to do or interested in. I’m very glad u guys know the culture and telling us the raw truth. But trust n believe me marriage is not an option in my case. Being lovers…. Friends….. Yes marriage….. Kids….. NO

  • American Girl

    August 18, 2015

    @Gail

    Wow!!! OMG. yes I have kids. We all have passports because we travel. I asked him once why he wasn’t married anymore. He said he don’t know. Then said God sent me to him. Then I asked if they can have more than one wife in his country. He said it’s not something they can just do. He said it had to be certain circumstances. Then he said I’m one woman’s man. He said his mom is sick n very old so he spend lots of time with her. After he said his wife made a problem for him I haven’t really heard much from him. I never mentioned polygamy to him at all. But I will get something out of him n tell u. He’s in Karachi. His bro is over a news station there. Plz tell me if u kno of that. hes lived in Dubai last 10 yrs and said he hate pak n all the problems there. He always tell me if I have any doubt to ask him. So I will surely get this out his ass. He gave his fb password and everything. Later I found out he had three more fb pages and he gave me those passwords. I’m not putting anything past him I’m just giving u facts. Do u think his wife found out he bn talking to me? He said she made a problem for him. Then he said I’ll fix my life. He said I was busy with court and that he doesn’t want her. I know this is a lot and all over the place but please answer what u can. Thx

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    Gail,

    Don’t miss my comment to you. Yours came in while I was writing on my phone so its under yours.

  • anabellah

    August 18, 2015

    Gail, WOW,

    Your post to American Girl was powerful. Although you’re speaking to her seriously about a very serious matter, you had me laughing. You certainly have a way with words that is comical.
    Sadly to say it sounds she’s been bit by the bug badly and there may not be an antidote. Some get in too deeply and can’t heed warning cuz they don’t want to.

  • Gail

    August 18, 2015

    American Girl,
    U stated he wants out of Pakistan.Why do u think he wants out of Pakistan?They all want out of Pakistan because it is a very poor country.My point is he has told u himself out of his own mouth he wants out of Pakistan.All the Paki men try for UK at some point he may or may not get a Uk Visa.I don’t understand at all about him sending for u after he gets a visa that sounds retarded to be frank because u can go to UK right now today without a visa so him sending for u what is that nonsense? Look I don’t know what u think about this guy but I can assure u have it all wrong.His friend in Cali is not your friend remember that ok he will tell u only what his friend tells him to tell u and nothing more unless he tries to hook up with u for marriage himself then he will throw his friend under the bus in a New York minute.lol I am not trying to talk down to u I just don’t want to sugar coat it is all.Think of it this way if u are gambling with your life and u have a 95% chance to loose would u risk all for a 5 % chance? Because girl that is what u r doing and I feel I am being very easy to give u even a 5% chance.I personally don’t even know anyone that has been married to a Pakistani man as long as me except for one other woman on this blog I think she was married to a paki man like 20 yrs but he was a drunk and her life did not seem happy at all if I remember correctly.Oh there was one other woman on the blog who claimed to be happily married to a paki man for like 7yrs or so but the truth is he was going behind her back sending stuff to pakistan and his 1st wife was living with his mom in Pakistan with there 3 kids yet somehow she believed he was divorced from his cousin/wife and his wife was living with his mother out of the goodness of her heart or something along those lines.In pakistan the majority of daughter inlaws DO NOT like there MIL so for his wife to stay with a MIL that she could not stand plussss being divorced well to be frank it would never happen because everyone would know and she would be shamed and humiliated.Divorce is the worst thing that could happen to a woman in pakiland.

  • Gail

    August 18, 2015

    American Girl,

    U said u have only known him for a month if I am correct just give it time and don’t say a word to him that u r talking here on this forum or he will tell u to get off here and u will be screwed to say the least.First of all I don’t care how beautiful u are u r still not the right skin color so there is not need to say how beautiful u are etc.. I personally believe everyone is beautiful regardless of their skin color because G.D made u perfect the way u are.I was just trying to explain the culture so don’t take wrong ok.
    Secondly one month is not long enough for anything at this point.He is talking UK because he already has a plan to go there but believe u me if that iron in the fire don’t work out u know well where his head will be turning next and that is right at u.
    U say he is not cat fishing I agree because the fish fell right into his frying pan and he had to do nothing how convenient for him.lol
    Look I don’t know if u have kids or not since u r separated but lets get real here ok.If u have kids u have to get passports for them and that means your husband or the baby daddy will have to sign for a passport just in case u r not aware.Pakistani men do not like taking care of other peoples kids just to let u know.They don’t make good stepparents at all.I don’t know if u have kids or not but if u do this is a serious issue u will need to figure out aside from the fact that he is toying with u.
    Now lets test your theory and u find out if his wife is his cousin if that is at all possible.Start asking questions and act like u are interested in polygamy.I hope u have not told him yet that u don’t like polygamy etc… because if u have it will be harder to get the truth from him.Tell him that u understand Pakistani people marry with their cousins and try to see if he will tell u and if by some miracle he says yeah he is married to his cousin which might be hard to get out of him but u will not know unless u ask and question about his wife.U need to know this because if he is married to his cousin then believe u me chances of him divorcing a cousin r slim to none because then u get into family taking sides and people getting disowned shot and killed.
    Ask him straight if his wife is his cousin then we go from there.
    American Girl u think u r smart but I am telling u straight up u r playing with fire and u r going to get burned and all that aside if u really want to hook up with this guy as a possible marriage then u better 100% expect polygamy in your future or him cheating on u.U also better expect his family to come first before u and any children u may ever have.These r the cold hard facts that u will have to face sooner or later and I think u r crazy if u willingly get involved with this man but all that aside I am here if u need to answer any questions.Just please be careful and think a million times before u do what u r fixing to do.
    He is lying about his wife demanding alot of money from here because there is not such a thing a wife demands anything unless she wants the $h!t kicked out of her or Acid poured on her or her nose chopped off or beaten or killed.He is lying to u but u don’t know the culture so u r going to buy into what he is selling u understand?Again what u r doing is very dangerous.U need to read about Pakistani woman and their lives and how they r treated.People in USA treat their dogs better than Paki woman r treated.
    When a Paki girl get married she goes to live with her inlaws and she serves them the rest of her life.SHe don’t just serve her husband she serves his brothers and parents and aunts and uncles etc.. They live joint family all in one home and a Paki girl works from morning until night doing anything her MIL and FIL and husband and BIL and SIL tell her.Ok that is enough for now u just find out if his wife is his cousin and keep silent u r blogging here is my advice to u.

  • American Girl

    August 17, 2015

    @Gail

    Thx for ur feedback. First off he has never mentioned coming to the USA. When we started talking he was working on a visa to UK. He wants out of Pakistan. He wants me to come visit with him once he settles in the UK. He never approach me online. I inboxed him on a game bcuz he was fine. He was very shocked I was interested in him. Yes I’m black and very attractive. He said he was busy with court. So I was trying to see if anyone knew anything about divorce there. He said she trying to get lots of money from him and he’s pissed off about it. What she complained about I do not know. I’m not questioning whether he’s trying to use me for citizenship bcuz it won’t happen. I’m married but seperated LOL. Anywho he’s always talking about me coming to visit him in UK n is traveling abroad to vacation. He’s never mentioned coming to the USA. He actually told me his friend said its not smart to come to USA to start his business. He has a friend that in Cali that I’ve spoken to so there’s no catfish. Again I don’t believe he’s trying to use me for anything if he’s only talking and I stress “TALKING” about sending for me when his visa if approved

  • Gail

    August 17, 2015

    Ana,
    I have no intentions of ever going back to Pakistan.I will 100% not go back until after my children are grown and married and I doubt I will even go back then.I would only ever go back if my children after they r married wished to go visit then I would go but again only after they r married here in USA

  • Gail

    August 17, 2015

    Ana,
    I struggle everyday to make my husband understand I don’t want anything to do with his family or his culture.I am dealing this marriage for the sake of my children and their futures.I don’t have a desire to remarry since I let my first love go and I do feel I am where I belong but I have zero desire to mix up with his family now or ever.I don’t say this to be cruel or even hateful I am a very matter of fact person and if someone lies to me and in this case they all did with the exception of one sister who tried to hint around as best she could but I could not take a hint at the time everyone else stayed silent.Now as I see it I don’t need people like that in my life now or ever it is a clear waste of my time to even try with those people as I do not and will not ever trust any of them.I don’t even trust my own husband much less his family.I am fine to stay to myself and not mix up but my husband just go nuts and gets angry because I refuse to mix up with them and this is where the breakdown of r marriage mainly is with this issue.
    Somethings people can get over and somethings they can’t in my case I can’t get over the lies and dishonesty.I will be so thankful when my children r grown is all I know at this point.
    I don’t want act like my husband is horrible because that would be not the truth either as he is kind some of the time and he works hard and gives me all his money and he is not interested in living polygamy.Anyway this is the main problem in my marriage as he seems to think I should build a bridge get over it and move on and marry the kids in his family and do cousin marriages which I have ZERO interest of doing ever.I will take divorce before I allow any of that nonsense with my children and my children know this as well as my husband.I have been very verbal about this.

  • anabellah

    August 17, 2015

    @Gail,

    You’re handling everything very well. Thank God you are not stuck living there. You had your adventure, and have some of the country (Pakistan) living with you now. Try to be safe and make your intention not to go back there unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

  • Gail

    August 17, 2015

    Ana,
    I wonder that myself about Bibi to be honest.She was so unhappy though I could tell through all her post and her husband if u noticed rarely had sex with her through her own admissions.I do remember her saying something about her other cowives being black but honestly I doubt that is truth because I would see him marrying at least one cousin or Pakistani woman esp since he is very much older.I could be wrong and there is always the exception to the rule but her life was far from perfect.In all honesty I felt so sorry for her.I think she got roped into a marriage with an old man very young and regretted it.I can’t say I blame her one bit as that country is so mind blowing boring I can remember being so bored there on so many occasions I just laid on my bed and counted the the very dents all over the walls and ceilings.Not to mention I stayed in my room for over 3 months straight and never left it except on occasion to go out.I hate that culture more than words can explain and every single time I go I make darn sure I stay away from my husband family as much as I can.I refuse to socialize with them at all after I figured out they r all liars and con artist.I don’t mean to slander people or even an entire nation but the truth is the truth.

  • Gail

    August 17, 2015

    Ana,
    I am really happy Omer came on here and wrote what he did because this is how they do.They act like everyone else is a liar and thief but them.This is the main problem because they tell the foreign woman this and G>D bless the foreign woman they believe the men and take what they say at face value like heart was doing then her boyfriend let it slip that his wife is complaining to him about money.I would say heart is very lucky because normally it takes years and years to catch them in their lies so she is very lucky in that respect.
    I doubt u could find more cunning men on earth to be frank than a Pakistani man in my opinion.

  • anabellah

    August 17, 2015

    @Gail,

    Now an again , I wonder how Bibi is coming along over there. I don’t get how her husband married 3 black women. I may never know ??? I know she actually was black, as she stated, from the pic she sent me of herself. So, that was truth.

  • Gail

    August 17, 2015

    Ana,
    It amazes me how Pakistani men come on here to say that other men r dogs when they r doing the exact same thing except when it comes to them they try to clean it up by saying they r educated etc… and the other men are poor guys from the villages.
    Well guess what my husband was not from a village nor was he poor or uneducated so this is just a flat out lie it is happening all over the country and it is a serious serious problem.
    U notice he did not mention anything about cousin marriages or white skin he just left all that out.Even I tell u the truth the darker the Pakistani female skin color is the harder it is for her to get husband and that is prejudice within their own culture.I remember so many times going on Shia marriage site to search a wife for my BIL and everyone had wheatish for skin color and I became perplexed because I did not know what wheatish even was so I ask my husband and he explained to me it means fair skin.I died laughing and he said what is so funny I said all D@mn Pakistan claims to be wheatish/fair skin.When I lived in Pakistan I rarely seen a fair skin person but of course I am one step away from being considered an Albino so to me all those people looked brown as dirt.Anyway it is totally buts the entire thing but I feel it is important for a dark skin foreign woman to understand this about Pakistani culture before they go walking up in there and get the shock of their life.

  • anabellah

    August 17, 2015

    It sure is the same thing, Gail. I didn’t see it till you spelled it out. I went to sleep cuz he sugar coated it. Isn’t he a sly one?

  • Gail

    August 17, 2015

    Omer,
    U r doing the exact same thing as the other men and I mean exact same thing except u r not labeling yourself as one of them.If u notice u r not planning to live in Pakistan and u r planning on marrying a foreign female correct and settling in Germany.I am not trying to say u r a bad person I am simply stating that u do not want to live in Pakistan and u r marrying outside your culture as well.I am curious will u marry a cousin in the future and will do exactly as your mom and dad ask u to do if they make u marry a cousin in the future and how will u explain this to your foreign sweet unknowing pakistani culture wife? U r still very young at age 21 and maybe u yourself have not thought so far ahead I really don’t know but don’t come on here telling me to grow up when u yourself have admitted to doing the same exact thing as the other men exact u just sugar coated it to make it seem sweet.

  • anabellah

    August 16, 2015

    @Omer, Hello

    Thank you for writing in and for letting us know that the guys who take advantage of European women are usually from the villages or, as you said, the poor “shity” parts of Pakistan. I think most people realize that not all Pakistani males are the same as the unscrupulous ones. Nonetheless, it does warrant a warning for women not to fall prey to the bad apples of the bunch.

  • Didi

    August 16, 2015

    Hi American Girl please do search about weather in pakistan nowadays. All I know recently is summer in Pakistan. some area have a hot wave. its mean that imposible Pakistan have a rainy day

  • Omer

    August 16, 2015

    Hi. I am a pakistani , I’m 21 and i have a girlfriend from when i used to live in the u.k. i love her and i wouldve found someone to get married while i was there if my intention was to marry for residence but i love her and i will marry her once im done with studies and i settle down. I have studied marine and i have come back to pakistan , i will be going to germany next year we have our business there and i will also study further(mechatronics engineering) there, not everyone is the same, the guys u are talking about are usually from villages and poor shity parts of this country. Grow up before putting labels on people :/

  • Gail

    August 16, 2015

    American Girl,

    Hey if u have anymore questions then don’t hesitate to ask that is what we r here for.I know what I said doesn’t help u any as far as making a match with this Pakistani man and I am sorry for that but this part of the blog that Ana made was for speaking the truth and to warn woman who come here about Pakistani men and them using the internet to search for foreign woman to immigrate out of Pakistan.So in that regard I hope this was helpful to you.
    Pakistan is one of the poorest counties in the world and the only way these men can get to a foreign country easy is to marry a foreign woman and the internet is perfect for fishing for women in that regard.

  • Gail

    August 16, 2015

    American Girl,

    Hi I am Gail and I read your comments.First of all he is not getting nor is he going through a divorce.His wife is B!tching at him to do something because he has come back from Dubai where he worked for someone or had a very very small business and for whatever reason he is back in Pakistan.Wives complain when there husband work outside the country then go back to Pakistan and loose their jobs understand.
    He is lying to u straight up he has kids and a wife and he is looking at u for immigration and his wife would go along with this if she thought her husband could get USA citizenship.Do not think for a second he has a serious interest in you as far as love goes.He is only interested in making money for his family period the end.
    U have only known him for a month I think u said and u have already started saying I love u.Look the reality is this u don’t even know if his wife is sitting there watching and listening to the entire chat which is very very likely so stop kidding yourself he is not divorced nor is he going through a divorce he is married and more than likely his wife is his cousin.
    I want to also tell u which u may not know but Pakistani people really love white skin white European woman.I did not want to believe they were this way but I matched my brother inlaw with a mixed half black half white american woman thinking nothing of it at the time but after they were married i figured out really quick he married her for immigration.Needless to say they are no longer together and she figured out they were racist.I wish I could say it was just m family but the entire country is that way unfortunately.They even use skin lightner creams(Fair and lovely) to make their skins lighter etc..
    I just wanted to point that out because I doubt he would seriously find u attractive nor his family under the circumstances that I have explained to u which is pathetic in my personal view but it is reality and the truth none the less unfortunately.
    Listen another thing he is going to say trust him etc.. and when u tell him things that i or others said he will say all 5 fingers r not the same meaning he is MR perfect and never lies etc..
    I don’t want u to think that Pakistani men don’t marry black woman because they do.I am more saying that Black woman esp in my experience are not treated well by Pakistani society as a whole after marriage but in reality I don’t know many woman who are to be frank.
    As a whole in Pakistani society divorce is very low and u can google this.It is because like 80% or more marry first cousins and everyone is family related.In alot of cases u have brothers and sisters married to cousins in the same family.Cross cousin marriages so it makes it near impossible for divorce to happen because it would be 2 divorces instead of one divorce and if u do not understand what I am talking then it means u r on zero when it comes to Pakistani people and their culture.I have been married 12 yrs to a Pakistani man and lived several years off and on in Rawalpindi Pakistan and I am telling u straight u better think a million times before u jump on that boat unless u want to cry all your life.
    There is another woman on the blog Mari2 she can explain to u also about Pakistani mother inlaws and how precious they are to a foreign daughter inlaw not to mention I have my own stories.LOL

  • ummof4

    August 16, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    American Girl, my advice to you would be to run, run, run, away from this man. Try to block him on all social media. He has shown you his true colors, and one of them is a big red flag stop sign.

    Be careful falling in love with someone on online. Have you ever seen the TV show “Catfish”? It is extremely rare that a person you meet online is telling the truth.

    May Allah help us all.

  • American Girl

    August 16, 2015

    I have lots of questions. Here’s my story. I am African American I met a Pakistani guy on Internet about a month ago. He said he only bn in Pakistan a short time after his return from Dubai. In Dubai he had his own business but after 7 yrs his sponsor took almost everything so he’s trying to leave Pakistan to start work. We exchange I love you(s) all the time. When we initially started talking I asked if he was married he said not anymore. Well a week ago I didn’t hear from him for 4 days. I was freaking out. Finally he texted me saying he had a problem and that “HIS WIFE” made a problem for him. Something about she complained. She wants lots of money etc…. He went on to say it was a long story. I’ve read all the stories here but he has in no way asked to come to USA. He’s tryin to get a UK or turkey visa. He wants to meet me. He’s only mentioned trying to start his business bk in another country so we can spend time together. I am So confused I really don’t kno what to think. I don’t think marriage or anything like that would be in our future because I’m not muslim. He’s so sweet n he’s tries to clear my doubts. He tells me not to doubt him but then he drops the bomb saying his wife. So my question is how is divorce handled in pak? It seems as if he’s going through one but idk. Also I want to know if anyone’s knows about bad network connections in Karachi. He’s always saying his internet is out because lots of rain. I haven’t talked with him since he said he was busy with court etc… I know my story all over the place but someone please help me!!!!

  • anabellah

    August 8, 2015

    @Khan, Welcome

    Thank you for commenting! In reading what you’re looking for in a wife, it sounded like you were placing an order at a restaurant. Insha Allah, you will find the woman you are looking for. I understand it is not easy to marry an Arab woman from KSA, if you’re not Arab. Arabs are for Arabs LOL I think they believe they are the chosen ones the way the Jews believe they arehttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

  • Khan

    August 8, 2015

    I’m a Pakistani, basically a professional telecom engineer & working in Saudi Arabia. I speak 4 languages(Arabic isn’t one of them). I was looking for an Arab wife(because my children would speak FIVE LANGUAGES) & preferred to find a Syrian because I had heard that they are beautiful & very loyal. I also wanted to change the DNA of my children a bit, since I’m an ethnic Pashtun & we have had too many cousin marriages up the ancestry tree. :)) One of my sisters is a special, you know what I mean, & its probably due to consistent cousin marriages. Long story short, I have fallen for a Saudi girl & she has equally fallen for me. Now, there are no benefits involved. Its purely a matter of the heart. Its very difficult to marry a Saudi girl in KSA for expats. I wish she were a foreigner would have made it a lot easier for us!!! I see in her a good friend & a great companion for the rest of my life!!

    Moral: All people are not the same. Even children of the same parents differ to a great deal. All people have a heart ;), & it can be lost down the road! :) http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_yes.gif Just watch out & be careful.

  • Gail

    August 6, 2015

    Geovana,

    U need to go back and read the stories.I met my husband on line 13 yrs ago.He showed me his family and I even chatted with them on the phone and online for 1 yr before up and moving to Pakistan to marry him.What he failed to show me was his pregnant wife.He made a fool of me and ruined my life I feel.I will say straight to u don’t do it.You don’t know these people and what they r wanting from u understand.Look up statistics of how many Pakistani men marry their cousins(it is very high)I can assure u he don’t love u these people never marry for love they marry for family status.It is very simple u have something he wants and my guess is a greencard to whatever country u r from.Pakistan is one of the lowest paying countries in the world the men r always looking to marry out.Hope this helps.

  • anabellah

    August 5, 2015

    @geovana, Hello and welcome! http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    Who knows whether your boyfriend is truthful in what he says or not. You only know him from online. That he showed you pics of his family means nothing.

    I’d suggest you quit while you’re ahead and not get mixed up with the man any further. Don’t get caught up in the cultural craziness that may await you if you get involved with him any deeper than you are.

    There are plenty of single men out there on this planet. I suggest you make your intent to marry someone of your own nationality and culture. Life and marriage is difficult enough without asking for trouble http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_mail.gif

    It doesn’t matter that you love him now.http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_whistle3.gif Snap out of it!

  • geovana

    August 5, 2015

    have a question my boyfriend is pakistani and truth only know him from online but he show me photos of his family and there look like good persons and not religious but I do not know if he saint the true And he wants to marry me

  • Gail

    August 1, 2015

    Didi,
    Happy to have helped

  • Didi

    July 31, 2015

    Gail

    I am Indonesian with a brown skin, but in my opinion , my country is better then their. political, economic and social. the proof is that he still try to contact me, while I never initiate to call him.
    Yes he laughing at me, same like when I tell him that i want to work as a volunteer for woman empowerment.
    And yes I know what they purpose. since at the begining he keep asking my sallaries.

    I do believe you Gail because if he is not rude his to sweet to be truth..
    He know that ican not be forced. I always state to him that what he say is an insult or threaten.
    I hope that all girls can do the same .
    Ithink i much like you. i guess

  • Didi

    July 31, 2015

    Ana,

    Yes, theres nothing wrong with younger boy. but related biological age and sexual life i choose to marry older man. to prevent polygamy because what I know that man produce progesteron until he die, and woman esterogen reduce once she get menopause.
    The most matter for me is attitude and character. and as we know that in pakistanwoman rights is not really important. I come from moderate family. my father used to help my mom to do domestic job . theres big no no for nasty word or insult to others .
    In my country woman have rights to educated, have a voices and right to speak up ours mind.
    Thank you for your reminder, I think im on top now.since i refuse to invest my heart to him.

  • Gail

    July 30, 2015

    Sagh90,

    I read your story and to be honest unless u can accept his wife knowing that she will never accept u and u can be fair and just I would say close this chapter of your life.You can not say that boy is good he is not stop and think logically he loved u but married another woman knowing he loved u.He will eventually get his wife pregnant and kids will come because that is his duty.U have to ask yourself can u accept polygamy and be fair and just with your cowife.If u can honestly share him and answer yes then tell him to be open and tell his family and wife and be honest and let the chips/$hit fall where it may with his wife and family.If he can not do this and let u meet them on skype etc… to confirm he was honest and told them I would walk away if it were me.
    I understand about first love and how powerful it feels but if u r not willing to accept polygamy then u will not only destroy your own life but the other girls life and she does not deserve that because the boy did not have enough balls to stand up and tell his family he loved u that time understand? U r going to be a doctor and u r going to meet alot of awesome single men that u don’t have to share .U got to think about your future children and your mental health if u can not truly accept polygamy because it can potentially destroy your life if u r unwilling to accept it so please think clear and protect your mental health for your future children understand.

  • Gail

    July 30, 2015

    Didi,
    I read your post and for certain u need to drop him like a bad habit because he told u straight when u said u would ask his mother he ask u if u were cool with polygamy and u said no.He was not laughing with u he was laughing at u because either he is already married or knows he will marry inside the family/his parents pick and u 100% are not going to be their pick.They need a daughter inlaw who is going to serve them and deal all their crap.In your case they would have to serve u understand? I would advise u leave that boy/man where he sits because if he is cursing at u now and acting like a horses ass at times u better believe it is going to get 100% worse.I don’t want to come across as sounding racist or nasty because I do not mean it like this is going to sound but with u being from malasia u r just not from a country that is that big of a deal like say UK or USA so u will be kicked around easy.Also u r not white skin I am assuming and they really hold white skin woman like a trophy for lack of a better word.
    If u don’t believe me just make another fake ID and act like a white woman from USA and see how how fast he jumps.Honestly this is a game they play and the first piggy to jump wins the prize which they consider themselves the prize(rolling my eyes here)Even my own husband was talking to other woman from Malasia and other countries before me I didn’t think to much of it at the time but I was the idiot that jumped.

  • anabellah

    July 29, 2015

    @Didi, Wa Alaikum As Salaam :-)

    It’s good to hear you’re enjoying the thread and reading the comments. I agree with you that the post/thread should be very helpful to any woman who is involved with a Pakistani man or anyone who has dealings with Pakistanis and want to know about their culture. I was pretty much unaware about them and their culture until I began to read comments from Gail and Jenny about it. It was a huge eye opener for me.

    So, you’re 13 years older than he. Well, there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m eight years older than my husband. He was married and divorced before he and I met. She was 10 years older than me. He apparently likes the older women. There is nothing wrong with being older. From what I understand, our beloved Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) first and only wife until she past away was 15 years older than him. They were married 25 years. It goes to show that it is perfectly okay. Don’t let anyone tell you any thing different.

    You’re a smart woman to learn all you can about the men and their culture, so you could stay on top of things. Don’t let him try to bamboozle you. I know usually everyone put their best foot forward when just meeting someone. They want to impress. Some of those guys are very smooth talkers though or should I say, smooth operators. LOL Toothless Chuckle As long as you can keep your wits about you and not let him manipulate you, you’re in a good position.

    Don’t fall asleep on him, though. Keep your eyes and ears open. Stay awake. Don’t become subservient to him. stay educated and have something going for you other than making life about him and what he wants your life to be about. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_good.gif

  • Didi

    July 29, 2015

    One thing you should show him strength, bold, straightforward, and frank if needed. It makes him hesitance to make you low.
    They tend to manipulative , to make us feeling guilty fr everything we’ve done to him .
    And Ana i am agree with you about the divorce. much Asian stay with the marriage they dont like because they dont want to make their family ashamed.
    Im the exception. Once He asked me what if jhe proposed me to be his wife , I answer I ll asked his mom, and he laugh. than he ask me what if my husband doing polygamy, my answer is I ll ask for divorce, because Im Independent, again he laugh

  • Didi

    July 29, 2015

    Dear Ana,

    Salam

    Love coming back to discussion. scrolling and reading all the comment. It makes me happy. This thread really help to all girl and women who have relationship with pakistani man.
    I am Asian, single and i’m a Muslim since I was born. My acquaintances with paki man is starting December last year. He found me from chat messenger. He is 23 Yo, Im 13 yrs older. Im not replying his message at the beginning.I never intended to have a connection with younger man. Until i think its okay to chat with him to make a new friendship, and make an exchange information about culture, politics, and especially about Islam.
    As you said Anna, he is suave (typical of Asian) debonair and charming. and it makes me flattered and spoiled at first time. He keep contact me several times a day . He begging for skype as well , and we do skype. He show attraction since first time we met through internet. He ask me to be her girlfiends, and keep calling with “My future wife”. that’s not make sense for me, I say that I can not do with relationship without knowing each other, and I dont believe on Long distance relationship. but he keep trying.
    I don’t think he has a job , since he contact me like there is nothing to do . while i am working ladies with limited time.
    and its make him angry, he say it takes two to tango.
    Since im a not an easy person, I am starting doing research about pakistani man . That lead me to this thread.
    Reading all this thread, makes me precautious with pakistani men. Everything you and Gail said about pakistani man all true.
    At the first time he is suave, debonair and charming. During the time you closer to him , he is become more impatient, forcing, possessive, and rude. and he is a horny dogs, because he send me porn video. and simply I deleted. like he always say that he do that because he love me . He several time call me with nasty word. And of course I say that I dont like it, since I am always bold. It makes him do apology to me. he say because i am darling so he call me like that . What kind of culture that allow calling nasty word to people you love.
    And since I am muslim, I always can make an antithesis of everything his statement related to Islam.
    Now we still contact, I hope I can give him a good influence.
    I hope every women who connected with pakistani man keep allert and precautious. Make your head clear and logic, if you talk with this guy.

  • anabellah

    July 28, 2015

    sarah, nice to meet you

    You are a Filipino Muslim with a Pakistani boyfriend you’ve known since last year on the internet. You see each other by way of skype and you’re very much in love with him. You said he asks his mother about you. What does he ask her?

    What would you like to know from us? You may have read some of the posts from this site.

    Is he married or engaged/intended to his cousin in Pakistan? Does he want to marry you. What have you planned for your lives together, if anything? I’m not sure what you need to know, if anything. Maybe you were just sharing with us, which is okay too.

  • sarah

    July 28, 2015

    I have a Pakistani bf..we meet n internet since last year..I am so inlove on him,n we always see in Skype…he always asking his mother about me…I am a pilipina and I am a Muslim….

  • anabellah

    July 28, 2015

    @Pakistani Man,

    Welcome Brother! Thank you much for imputing. I appreciate it much.

    I can get with what you said that the foreign females are not infants. I hear you and understand your position. You have to understand though that foreign is interesting and exotic to others. Before I married, I was interested in the foreign guys, not to date, but just the wow factor – to meet them was awesome to me. That he was from Egypt or Pakistan was fascinating to me. My wali, as well as the Hispanic Cuban guy who introduced my husband and me to each other warned me intensely not to marry a foreigner, due to cultural differences.

    I can understand how the ladies are attracted to the suave, debonaire, charming type guy. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif The men are foreign to the ladies. I could see how they think they met “Prince Charming” or their “Knight in Shining Armour”. They had no idea they were being set up, manipulated and lied to until they’ve become emotionally invested.

    You are correct that there are more divorces in the West or the marriages last for a shorter period. You need to consider, as well, that many Westerners don’t spend the rest of their entire life in a loveless, miserable marriage. They get the heck out of it. They divorce and many marry again. Divorce in the West, although, difficult and painful is not something a person is shun for or looked down upon because of it.

    In the Pakistani culture and others like it, divorce is taboo. A person is frowned upon for having divorced and may never marry again. The families of the divorced individuals are shamed by it. In Pakistan, as Gail here stated, you’ve got all the first cousins marrying first cousins. When a divorce occur or problems in the marriage occur, it tears apart families. It’s like whole families are divorcing and it chaotic. You’re really mixing apples with oranges in comparing divorce when it comes to Pakistani culture and Westernized cultures.

    Again, I appreciate you speaking up. It seems many people read, but there aren’t many who have a voice, and want to be heard. On some site there are people who need to keep their trap shut, as they say useless, ignorant stuff. I thank Allah that He allow me to speak up and make my presence known. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_yahoo.gif

  • Pakistani Man

    July 28, 2015

    I’m from Pakistan and currently an international student in USA. I was born and raised in Dubai, UAE but still am aware of Pakistani mentallity and culture. I do agree with you but every Pakistani is not the same, Most of American girls here ask me the same questions that y do we use foreigners for our benefits? Girls you are not an infant that a Pakistani guy is gonna show you stars and say i love u n all then ur gonna fall for him and all.

    A marriage in Pakistan lasts for atleast 10 years lowest average and in USA just 5 years now that doen’t mean that every American girl is married to a pakistani guy and is divirced in 5 years? They just don’t do good even in their own nation. but yeah you should beware not only abt pakistani instead every guy even if he is in ur own race.

  • anabellah

    July 12, 2015

    @Sagh90, Hello there and welcome http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    The man who you are in love with seems to be a straightforward and honest person. It doesn’t seem he is trying to bamboozle or manipulate you in any kind of way.

    I think you have to make up your own mind on this one. Only you know how you want to live the rest of your life. Do you love him enough to be in a polygamous marriage with her as the legal wife, and the chosen wife by his family? She would, most likely, be favored over you by them. I’m assuming she is a first cousin of his.

    If you could deal with him being married to her and the cultural differences, and you love him so much, then perhaps you should go ahead and marry him. I’d suggest you marry him, if you’re going to continue to communicate with him up close and personal so he doesn’t commit adultery and you don’t fornicate with him.

    On the other hand, you could opt not to marry him. You could put the life you had with him behind you, and move forward in your life without him. There is a chance you’ll fall in love with someone else someday. Love isn’t the be all and end all in a marriage; although it helps to have love. There is more to life. You may not be as madly in love with another man in the future, but the marriage could still be rich and rewarding.

    Those are my thoughts about the matter. Maybe some others here could input, if it pleases God. We’re here, if you want talk some more with us. :-)

  • Sagh90

    July 12, 2015

    Hi all,

    I am an iranian girl and I had a pakistani boyfriend for 2 years. We were student in malaysia. Our friendship has so many ups and down because from a friendship for benefit, it turns 2 a real love story which anyone around us could observe it. To tell a long story short, During first years of our friendship he several time betrayed me and when I got to know I decided to break up. He hardly accepted to break up but after 1 week he again returned back and asked me for another chance because he said he really loved me. So did I. Our new friendship phase started and he were telling me every thing which was happening to him because he was scared to loose me. It was really great time and we enjoyed loving eachother to death. During our friendship We decided to be good friends for eachother forever but we never decided to get married. I planned to go to usa for phd on an f1 visa and he planned to return back and get an arranged marriage. He even delayed his marriage until i left malaysia so I didn’t get hurt seeing him as a married boy. After he got married (3 months ago) he started crying everyday that I can’t forget you, I also can’t and I am missing him every second of my life. He said he did this marriage for his family sake and he really made a big mistake. He said after finishing his phd in malaysia he want to find a post doctorate opportunity in any university and join me in usa. He said he can’t continue life without me and he wanted to be with me forever. These feelings is 2 sided. I can’t get rid of thinking to him and our true love. I am also a foreigner in usa and i just have a student visa and can’t support any foreigner for residency, and he want to come on his own. So i am sure he don’t want to abuse me. Just my qoutation is that should I forget about him because I know now he is married and I can’t bear this? If he come to usa and wanted our love story to start again I will not be able to stop it because I am dying for him. He sometimes is saying he has a plan in his mind so we can be together forever,if he wanted to leave her wife in pakistan and stay with me, does it a suitable decision to get into relationship with him again.
    I am stucked between my love for him and hate for being a friend or wife of a married previouse boy friend.

    By the way, he said he will leave it to my decision wether we get married or be friend forever and he will say to his family that he doesn’t want the wife they chose for him.

  • anabellah

    July 11, 2015

    Gail,

    I get exactly what you’ve said. I think mixing with another culture and religion is very complicated. Once in way over the head, it’s either sink or swim.

    You’ve hung in this long, I think you could make it until the children are grown, inshallah, especially as quickly as these years are going by.

    What do you think about Mari2′ newest situation?

  • Gail

    July 11, 2015

    Ana,
    Yeah it is sure going on in Pakistan from what I hear.If I were a woman meeting a guy on the internet from Pakistan knowing what I know now I would run not walk the other way.I really feel bad for these woman that have mixed up with these men thinking they r in love but being deceived.I wish I could say I am the exception and not the rule but that is just not the case I myself live a hard complicated life that alot of times I feel is just to much and I need to let it go for the sake of sanity and health.I just think when u combine mixing up with another culture,religion u r asking way more than u bargain for in most cases.

  • anabellah

    July 10, 2015

    @Gail,

    I like the advice you gave Zarah Gujar. If a person has that much information to make a sound decision, knowing the odds are stacked against her if she marries the person and she marries him anyway – well http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif– so be it. They were warned. Some people have to learn the hard way.

    You spoke of women going to Pakistan and being sold into prostitution. Human Trafficking is huge now. One doesn’t hear much about it, but it’s modern day slavery that is occurring in quite a number of countries now-a-day. There is a lot of it happening in the the U.K. :-(

  • Gail

    July 10, 2015

    Zarah Gujar,

    Hey welcome to the blog I am Gail.Listen I read your post and I hate to say it but u r the typical woman that these Pakistani men pray on.U must understand some things about Pakistan and Pakistani men before u just up and make life choice to marry.First of all u may be thinking with your heart but he will be thinking with head and what benefit u r for him and his family.These men walk with their families and they don’t leave them.When I first got married i thought wow that sounds great a large family but after they lied to me and deceived me my heart changed towards them.
    Pakistani me are very nice and very gracious until u piss them off then they go from Saint to Satan seriously and it is not fun nor is it pretty.I have been called very offensive names from my own husband and if that is not horrible enough he insist I serve his parents the very people that lied and deceived me.
    I am curious were u muslim before or after u met your boyfriend? Also r u going to accept polygamy because more chances than not he is going to remarry a Pakistani cousin somewhere down the line and u r going to either have children or be so much emotionally invested u will have no choice to accept the crap that will be placed on u.Your inlaws r never going to have your back as they r all for their son and u r just greencard to them or a foreign whore(if u think I am kidding I am not and time will sure tell u if u marry him) They r all pretty much alike simply because of the culture.Somethings culture fixes on u so that is why I am saying most r all the same and since u have not met your fiance in person as of yet and he is disrespecting u already it seems to me u r the classic online greencard /immigration woman he is looking for.Pakistan is such a poor country but still it is mind blowing what these men will do to get out of that country.
    Also be aware and I mean be very aware and u can youtube this that there are woman that go to Pakistan to meet their fiances only to be sold into prostitution.The police are involved from what i understand alot of the time so to even go to Pakistan like what u r talking to do is really putting your life in your own hands.Also understand by him showing u his family and them acting all happy and blowing u kisses and waving at u and being overly nice(I am sure u thought d@mn these people r just so nice right?) Well believe me when i say they very well maybe smiling at u blowing u kisses and calling u a whore in Punjabi at the same time.Do not think u found some great deal esp since he is 23.That is very young for him to marrying in that culture and my sincere guess is everything is adding up to they r scamming u.
    Now in saying all this start asking questions and tell him straight u r not going to be able to help him immigrate to your country.Make up something like u contacted embassy and they said u have to sponsor him and u r not going to make enough money and your parents r telling u that u r not going to sponsor him.U make him believe u can’t sponsor him then sit back and wait for him to talk to his parents.IF his parents believe u will not sponsor him they will cut u loose.U got to be smart and call him and his families bluff.Also understand him being that young someone is guiding him what to tell u.It can be an older brother or cousin of even his own father so don’t think all his words r only from him because I am certain he is being guided what to tell u.
    If u decide to go through with this insanity u better ask yourself if u r read for not just polygamy but a blood relation/cousin polygamy?Believe me when I say Cousin Polygamy is on a whole other level and his cousin will do everything in her power to get u out of the picture and she will not care if u have children or not because it has to do with property rights etc…. Also if he beats u there is nothing u can do and u will live behind closed gates.At first it all sounds wild and crazy fun being in love with someone from another country but when the new wears off u will cry the rest of your life.
    In saying this maybe 10% of Pakistani men r not so insane but the odds r against u so just know that.

  • anabellah

    July 10, 2015

    @Zarah Gujar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam & Welcome :-)

    It is scary that he has such a temper. His temper would scare me into thinking twice about marrying him. He’s shown you who he is. Gail recently recited the quote from Maya Angelou when she was on the Oprah show – when someone shows you who he is believe him or when people tell you who they are believe them. I’m not sure which is the accurate saying, which doesn’t matter. You get the point. I get it and it’s finally beginning to register. (I’ve got a younger sister who it took me a long time for it to register.)You’re walking into a questionable situation with this man and you’ve got your eyes wide open about it. Are you going to go with emotion or logic?

    You’ve read a lot here about how some of these men maneuver. Have you asked him if he is married or is intended (arranged marriage)? Have you spoken with him about his belief in polygamy and whether he intends to engage in it? Still, there is no guarantee that he won’t, regardless of what he says. All Muslim women should expect her husband may one day become polygamous.

    I’m hoping our dear Gail will stop in soon and check here. She is our expert on the men and the culture in Pakistan. She is more learned about it than I am. Insha Allah, she will be helpful to you. Stay tuned…

  • Zarah Gujar

    July 9, 2015

    Salam to all: Im proud converted Muslim an my fiance is a punjabi boy. My question is are the whole Pakistanis behavior the same ? I m engaged with him from 1 year ago I am from Colombia but we stll dont meet yet in person.. hes adorable lovely boy he cares and guide me as well and he showed me all his family.. one main thing i cannot let silent is when he angry on me with a tiny thing hes very rude cold and harsh.. he use to ignore me for days and he drives me like I am nothing expecting I offer apologies for nothing i have did I really fear him when he upset and he is younger than me im 28 hes 23 despite I respect him and trying to be a great Muslim he is caring but angry lovable but harsh wonderful but with a very bad character.. We planning Nika on December 2015 in Pak but im scare and blinded for the big love he gives to me.. salamo aleikum.

  • Gail

    July 7, 2015

    Ana,
    Exactly it is horrible the way they act and the unsuspecting woman have no clue because we are brought up to have this notion about being in love equates truth,honesty,integrity not someone waiting for u to lure u in and emotionally rape u.

  • anabellah

    July 7, 2015

    Gail,

    Yes, I see. They live in dream land – in a fantasy world. They lay in wait for an easy prey. Most single woman are only lookin for love and romance – not some slick predator or worse a parasite :-(

  • Gail

    July 7, 2015

    Ana,
    These men like Tayyab this is what they do they sit on the internet looking for girls to scam for immigration.It’s disgusting if u ask me.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2015

    @Lynn Sky,

    I didn’t say your previous post was a scam. I said it was SPAM (which is advertisement etc). I clicked on the link to your comment, which led to a YouTube video. I don’t approve such posts with those types of links on them. Those type of posts are usually spam. I deleted the link to the YouTube video on this post that you’ve just sent. Please don’t link up to a video or any site that you don’t moderate/manage. The area to add links are for people who comment here who have their own websites.

    I’m sorry. I’ve deleted your last post, and can’t remember what it said. You could feel free to repeat it, if you’d like.

  • Lynn Sky

    July 5, 2015

    Dear Anabellah,

    How could you say that my comment is a scam… Does the person who told you, know me in person? Why should he, right away judge badly of my identity.. It should be proven otherwise beyond reasonable doubt if this blog is truthful of its intention.

    I am saddened of the reply you wrote for Lynn Sky.

    Yours very sincerely,

    Lynn Sky

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2015

    Ooops, sorry Umair and everyone, I didn’t realize the Lynn Sky post was spam when I approved it from my phone. When I just now went on the computer, I saw the link to a youtube video. Insha Allah, I may have to wait and approve a comment of an unfamiliar user when I get on the computer, and not instantly from my phone.

    @Umair,

    I’m very happy that you are still with us. I enjoy reading your posts. One thing I think we should consider is that quite a number of the ladies who are being bamboozled by these Pakistani men are not reverts/converts – not that it makes a difference. It’s wrong for anyone to take advantage of another person.

    The Pakistani men who marry non-Muslim married someone who Allah tells Muslims not to marry. Muslims are only to marry Muslims. If the Muslim man is an unbeliever (Muslim is name only – equally an unbeliever), it’s okay for him to marry an unbeliever. He most likely was astray before he married the non-Muslim woman.

    Some women convert/revert to Islam to marry a Muslim man. A person gets what they accepted Islam for. If the person took Shahadah to marry a Muslim man, all she gets is the man. Shahadah is a covenant a person makes with Allah. Accepting Islam should only be about Allah. The person who took the Shahadah will be accountable for it. They think it’s a simple matter, but to play with Allah is a HUGE matter.

    Now, the sincere revert/convert who stumbles upon one of these men, I feel very badly for. Insha Allah they are strong enough to get through it without leaving Islam. I personally know of a few reverts who left Islam. Two had bad marriages. One took Islam up as a fancy. She was used to jumping around trying different things out for size. Islam was one.

    I think, if Tayyab was serious about wanting a “sweet,” “innocent” girl in the UK, he was deceiving himself. There is nothing innocent about a “Pamela Anderson”. He’d do better to look for sweet and innocent in a Muslim sister from a good family who wants to serve Allah. Tayyab must want to get his freak on with a foreign women is my guess.

  • Umair

    July 5, 2015

    Tayyab,

    You are looking for a decent girl in UK like Pamela Anderson.I know London looks good,but the condition of UK is not as good as it was years ago.

    If you are a young guy,it’s NOT even funny,because these women has been ruined & destroyed,who reverted/converted is NOT a small thing to leave religion,family & friends to be betrayed at the end to gain an easy way of nationality/citizenship of the country via paper marriage or real marriage.

    Now the Pakistani men/guy who genuinely loves a foreign girl who has converted/reverted will NOT be trusted.It makes my blood boil what legacy or history others have left in these countries.

    I would add Canada/Australia/NZ in the list,as Ana put it right for a better life or economic migrants but these countries economies are going down.The condition is not as good as it use to be with very tighter border controls with many returned on the same flights/boats!

    @Lynn,where is Munawar Hussain from in PK?Where are you from UK/US/CANADA/AUSTRALIA?

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2015

    @Tayyab,

    Although your post may be a joke, if not I must inform you that we are not a marriage site. Sorry, but we cannot assist you in your search of the sweet innocent girl you’re looking for who lives in the UK. Happy hunting…

  • Tayyab

    July 5, 2015

    hi every one. i want to marriage with a Sweet ‘ inocent girl . who lives in Uk. i want to live with her in Uk.

  • anabellah

    June 30, 2015

    @Kendra,

    I can only say, you’ve been warned. As Umair said, don’t blame others afterwards. And I LOVE the quote that Gail shared about people telling you who they are. Evidence could be all up in someone’s face, but the person doesn’t want to believe it’s true. They want to believe what they want to believe. They won’t accept the truth although the person in question is presenting it.

    If you marry him and it ends up the way we think, I don’t want to be around to say, I told you so. I ain’t got time for it …

    polygamy 411

  • Kendra

    June 30, 2015

    @gail & @umair

    Wow. This is pretty much shocking. About the cousin I am sure there’s sex going on, I recall something he said teasing happening with a cousin and it wasn’t a big deal to me and the idea didn’t cross my mind too. I have a dual citizenship acquired from my vietnamese mom and fil/chinese dad. I am pretty much sure he isn’t a virgin cz he dated a spanish girl before but didn’t work out. I’ve been thinking about this matter for weeks now. Yes, I do love him but I don’t wanna be blinded. I know myself that I won’t be able to survive being with his family making me do things against my will. I’m afraid he’ll just use me for pleasure and get rid of me when he’s done. And I don’t even know if he’s a bachelor or have a wife in Pakistan but he calls me on a regular basis and I don’t see any fishy going around.

    @umair I’m from Vietnam and in a months time will be transferred in Kuwait. I don’t know how to start checking his background. My mom is a busy working lady and my dad is living in Saudi worst it I don’t even have siblings, if I disappeared no one would notice. :(
    I think I would wait and see what’s best move. @gail yes I will try to date other men, and not isolate myself with this guy. He is so manipulating, he knows how to make me obey his every word.

  • Gail

    June 30, 2015

    Kendra,
    Yeah he is already warning u of what life is going to be like after marriage.
    I don’t know if u ever heard this saying but is so true as I heard Oprah tell that Mia Angelo told her that when people tell u who they r Believe them.If he told u no more facebook after marriage believe it because he means it.Do u have a good citizenship from a decent country because if u do then it is clear he wants to marry u for immigration.U better know and understand if u do this they r going to marry him in the family sooner or later and if u think u can prevent that well u can’t.Please think hard and try to date other men give yourself a year believe me if he is using u for immigration he is not going anywhere which is another sign.What I am trying to say take tome to date other men and get over him.Again like i said do not worry about him going anywhere because he wants something u have and my serious guess it is citizenship to your country and i he is wanting u to live in Pakistan being educated that worries me even more because it means he is going to dump u in Pakistan take away your passport after marriage and he is going to be free to work in your country while u serve his parents like a slave in Pakistan and he will have free reign to enjoy sex everything away from u.He may or may not be a virgin but the way he is going about that cousin it is possible that she is where he is getting sex from to be frank because that don’t sound right to me that u there ripe for the taking and he is not trying to get with u.Pakistani men r horny Dogs to be frank and if knowone is looking and it is home free yeah seems really weird to me.

  • Umair

    June 30, 2015

    Hi Kendra & ladies,

    I have been reading this about Pakistani men,my blood is literally boiling what Pakistani men do even out of Pakistan.

    @Kendra,he is absolutely right,when he says it’s a shame if the wife works,the very relatives or family members will start saying to him with the cause/start of fights.You have to go to Pakistan with get use to it with the foreseen future magic ball.

    Pakistani’s are really close to their cousins(Me exceptional),because of age difference way elder than them,but then a good cousin of my mother’s cousins with marriages sort by my mother with her cousins(They are really beautiful in Lhr).

    @Gail,is right the ultimate love is family.Women talking all day on table about everyone(That’s standard procedure).

    Make sure to get to know his family in PK by hook or by crook,even though it’s hard if you don’t know anyone in Pakistan.Probably try Union Councils(UC) with getting through offices is not that easy.ID cards to check whether he is married before.Bringing in cultural mix is going to hard with that cousin is your future wife of your loving boy friend,as it’s told in Pakistan,marriage was for Immigration(PR),she excepts it.

    Have you reverted/converted to Islam?Kendra?Where are you from?London?
    There are very nice Pakistani men,but it’s your responsibility to know the boy & his family or your brothers or fathers responsibility like in Pakistan,who get the checks on boy.So if you don’t do your job about him & his family,don’t blame others afterwards if S/He turns out to be a snake,but in your case it’s he.Marriage is like a gamble,do you agree?

    You can see even Zain Malik & his UK girlfriend will have problems.

    Regards,

    Umair

  • anabellah

    June 29, 2015

    @Kendra,

    I suggest you run up out of that relationship with your Pakistani boyfriend, and don’t look back. I know you’re deeply in love with the man, but it’s no time to think with your emotions. You will get over him eventually. Marriage is difficult enough without the cultural differences added and you should certainly expect polygamy to be thrown into the mix with his cousin, especially as he communicates with her closely already. A glimpse of your life should have flashed before your your eyes by now. If you marry this man, you have no excuse when things spiral out of control and you’re f%^Ked (literally and figuratively). You were warned.

  • Kendra

    June 29, 2015

    @gail

    hello there gail, Im sorry to hear your story. I am really concerned about this marriage now. I don’t know what he is up to. I am very Independent, I dnt live with my family anymore as my parents are legally separated now. We never had a physical intimacy cz he doesn’t want it until we get married. I did modelling before, but I already left such career before he came on the picture.

    Yes, that 1st cousin was a girl. He just did confirmed its his 1st cousin and he did see her. I don’t want to think overboard but it f***n pissing me when he talks about that cousin. I told him if can I keep my job after marriage but he disagrees bcuz in their culture its a shame for wives to work. But I don’t think I can stand people enslaving me, I sure can help do chores but serving everyone? Oh god Im gonna die.

    He seemed nice but I am really skeptical. He is properly educated but sure he has a bad temper which is super scary. Maybe he wanted me cz Im timid and obedient little girl. But Im gonna f*** him big time if things gets more clearer to me. One thing he told me there will be no more facebook thingy after marriage. So the isolation shit is true. I even told him straight away I don’t want kids… yet. And he do agree with that.

    But gail good thing the throwing of avid didn’t happened to you. Good god. Why in the world would people do these things? I even dumped my english boyfriend because of him. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_cry.gif

  • Gail

    June 29, 2015

    Kendra,
    welcome to the blog.I am the one Ana talked about being married to a Pakistani man.Listen u got to know if u live in Pakistan with him u r going to be in serious problem u will be trapped in the home 24/7.The life u now know will be ancient history and he will control your every breath to be frank.His mother all i can say is u will wish to divorce eventually or shoot yourself in the head to be frank.He will never leave his mother he will control your every move and don’t u dare even think to have a male friend or dare to talk to one unless u want to your A$$ kicked or put on his ignore list and the way u talk about him I am pretty positive he will get physical with u after marriage.Also I am going to be frank here they r sexually addicted.I have not met one yet that is not and alot of them r bisexual and have had Bisexual experiences as well because they can not get to woman so they use boys and men there.I am just being honest.
    U will not hate your life overnight but within a few years u will truly feel like u have lost everything and even yourself.He will marry a cousin and I have zero doubt on it.The cousin he was talking about if she is a girl then u better believe more than likely she will be your cowife at some point.Also do not think u will marry this man and have kids and then he will tell u he is going to marry his cousin and u will walk away.U will be mentally beat down by then with no friends and u will feel like a failure with your family.I mean common the man u fought to marry then u have to tell your family he is a snake.Chances u will try to stay telling yourself u can’t take the humiliation and after all the kids need a daddy even if he is a piece of crap.Then u will have your cowife and his mom telling him to get rid of u or use u like a servant.Your cowife will do everything to rid herself of u and your kids so be prepared in advance.Even your kids will be her biological cousins but she will not care she will hate them because they stand in the way of her and her children getting 100% of property after hubby is dead.My own cowife tried to poison me and one sister inlaw so u better believe what I am saying.They r not above throwing acid in your face either or far worse.Also I don’t know if u r aware of this but he can make alot of money selling u into prostitution in Pakistan.It has happened to woman who have had a Pakistani boyfriend for years and the day she goes to Pakistan he sells her into prostitution.The police are involved in this because the country is so horrible.Just Youtube these things I am talking about.I doubt u will be able to do any background check on him.Also why does he want to marry u?WHat is in it for him Immigration? Great sex? figure out why he is marrying u because Pakistani men do not marry for love they marry for status.Their warped sense of love and devotion is to their family and I was told by my cowife i was a guest and not family meaning not blood aka get the F@ck out!

  • Kendra

    June 28, 2015

    @anabella

    Hi anabella,many thanks for your honest response. Im half vietnamese, half filipino/chinese. I had been reading about 10 reasons not to marry pakistani men and I guess the list is unending. Like should be “obedient” and serve “ammi jaan”. Lately he had been telling me how his mom would be happy about the idea me knowing how to cook and all. And the moment I read all these blogs everything flashes like a boomerang to me. I remembered one incident I dyed my hair red and posted it on fb, not very long I received a txt msg from him saying “who told you to dye your hair like that” wow. I enjoyed surfing and diving amd it gets my fair complexion a bit tan and its not a good idea for him maybe because “ammi jaan” wants fair ladies. We were both working in saudi, I work as a PA for a prince and he is working in a government institution. He came home last month in Lahore for a gathering and he was really eager to see this “cousin” he was telling who was with him in Manchester to study. I’ve seen the picture and I didn’t really thought about the possibility of marrying their own cousin as in my culture it is very much forbidden,immoral and just gross.

    I know that he knows it’ll be a struggle in my part as he wants me to live in Pakistan while he is in Saudi. He knows dating an “only daughter” will make everything worst. Even though my family especially my mom is aware about our relationship taking on a next level still she’s hesitant. I told him we can in Saigon where I was born but he doesn’t like the idea.

    He is very religious so do I. My dad is a filipino/chinese muslim so I am exposed to Islam. I just can’t stand the “mother-in-law slave” thing, it seems like they were fully attached to their mothers, I just wanna scream for the love of god please you are a grown man. A friend of mine was also concerned about this, to take background checks and every bit of precaution.

    So, lets see. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

  • anabellah

    June 28, 2015

    @kendra, Hello there and welcome :-)

    I can certainly see how some of the stories you’ve read scares you. I’d think most women who aren’t yet married to a Pakistani man would be scared straight once reading the posts from commentators on this blog about Pakistani men. I’d think they’d run away from the man like there is no tomorrow. Get in the wind today.

    Perhaps, as you said, you should step back and think more about whether you should marry your Pakistani boyfriend. If you’re not ready to deal with their culture and accept that he may marry another one day, making your life polygamous then the marriage probably isn’t for you. The majority of the Paksitani men are steep in culture. It’s not about Islam or anything else. They do what their mothers tell them to. So, you best be prepared to have your life controlled by his mother, if you marry him.

    So, he wants you to leave your job and live with his family in Pakistan. Well, it sounds about right. Are you ready to be his mother’s slave? From what I’ve been reading the daughter-in-law’s job is to care for her mother-in-law. But, then too, you wouldn’t be a PAKISTANI daughter-in-law, so it may be a bit different for you. I suggest you learn to be like our dear Gail here and tell them where to get off, if they begin bossing you around and trying to control your life.

    I wouldn’t tell any woman who is educated and has a career to give it up for any man. I believe in a woman having her own, so she doesn’t have to be subservient to someone else. Furthermore, are you prepared to spend a lot of time in the kitchen? Are you prepared to sit around with the women to chit chat, shooting the breeze about nothing and gossiping?

    What do you really envision your life to be like if you marry him? I don’t know where you’re from, but those men have a different mindset from those in the West. So, you’re a “free soul” type person who likes the outdoors and traveling. Well, does it sound like it will fit into what you’ve been reading about their lifestyle?

    Furthermore, if he likes everything perfect, it will only get worse if you marry him. What right minded person would knowingly marry a “control freak”? See if you could find the movie, “Sleeping with the Enemy” with Julia Roberts. You’ll get the picture.

    You shouldn’t ask him to not marry another woman in the future. No one knows the future. If he is not going to marry his Pakistani cousin, you still don’t know who he will meet, be attracted to, and want to marry in the future. You just don’t know and polygamy is allowed. Sometimes when a man has an opportunity to jump on someone else, knowing it’s lawful, he will do it.

    You could ask him to leave you all you want, if he intends to be with someone else in the future. You’ve been warned about what happens with many of these men. It’s your responsibility to open your eyes, absorb the information, and pack up and get out of dodge, if you don’t like what you see. You’re the one who is unsure about the relationship, so why put the weight on him to leave you? He apparently loves you and he’s not the one with the problem. You are. You need to leave him or stay. Don’t try to take what you think may be the easy way out, by telling him to do something, when it’s your problem. He knows what he wants and want to do.

    You asked if marriage to him is a bad idea. What do you think? Being confused

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what? – It’s a duck.

  • Kendra

    June 28, 2015

    These articles really breaks my heart. But maybe its a kind of precaution for me to step back and think about marrying my Pakistani boyfriend. I’ve been reading about these blogs lately and it scared the hell out of me. As he wanted me to live with his family in Pakistan after marriage and ofcourse leave my job. I know that Islamic laws allows polygamous marriage and even though I always tell him to just leave me if he’s planning to marry another girl besides me I still don’t have any assurance. Now my emotions are really stirred. I loved him, but there are certain things I do not consider like insensitivity. He likes everything perfect. Which is really stupid. Also my kind of lifestyle is pretty much like a “free soul” as I like outdoors and travelling. So is this marriage a bad idea?

  • Gail

    June 23, 2015

    Umair,
    I can tell u for a fact it is going on in epidemic proportions.I personally don’t think it matters if the woman converted or not.The Pakistani man agreed to marry a nonmuslim woman so the playing ground needs to be fair.I personally hope international laws will be created eventually to stop this nonsense.Pakistan is getting a very bad reputation all over the world as we all well no and Immigration fraud is just one more thing to add to the list.

  • Umair

    June 22, 2015

    Hi Ana & Gail,

    I know it’s heavy but that’s what going on in his mind exactly.It’s an utter insult for Muslims & Islam & Pakistan,for a women who has reverted/converted to Islam,with leaving her family,friends & habits for this thankless creature.Any help i can do,let me know from sources in PK & Nadra/Union Councils.Any Single girl who hasn’t been bitten by snakes venom can contact me to avert the disaster.I have met many white girls & they were abusing Pakistani’s as soon they knew I am from Pakistan!http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    It’s just appauling & unforgivable,what image of Islam & Pakistan he is portraying.As far as White Girls are concerned,everyone knows how mostly White girls & guys live.

  • Gail

    June 22, 2015

    Ana,
    How Umair responded and talked about the white girl being kept as a third class wife.That’s exactly how i have felt and still feel in my marriage.It doesn’t go away.Even in my case my husband picked me ok fine but his family come first and it is just disgusting to a white girl to not be put first.

  • anabellah

    June 22, 2015

    @Umair,

    It’s a good idea about doing video conferences. I just don’t think right now is a good time for it, as probably 99% of the people here blog with fictitious names and reveal very personal information. I will keep the idea in mind for the future should others become interested in doing it.

    Umair, thank for sharing with us how investigations by the families are done in Pakistan. It makes total sense.

    Wow, you said they, “Divorce the White girl or keep it on the side as third class wife.” That is so heavy. It’s very sad :-( It’s a terrible thing to use people. It doesn’t only happen in Pakistan by Pakistanis. It could happen any where with anybody. It’s just very sad whoever does it.

  • Umair

    June 21, 2015

    @Ana,

    then i think we can add the video conference here,would be great to interact and meet.

    Obviously in Pakistan the brothers or father of the girl gets the background checks,such as which family he belongs,what type of family he has,what type of friends he has or what type of company,as the men are known or even women the company they keeps.It’s a very basic thing.It’s hard for a girl to check the credentials from offices as you will be pushed like a football from one dept. to another dept.

    The first thing in Pakistan is survival instinct,so these things are very paltry.The in laws are on it as well in some cases,as they want their son to get the Immigration/Nationality through Foreign Women,then bring his whole family(Short Cuts),then marry another girl by FRAUD/DECEPTION of ISLAM,as men can have more than one wife,as a matter of fact you have to do justice with everyone as Allah(GOD) says,which you won’t be able to do.Divorce the White girl or keep it on the side as third class wife.

  • anabellah

    June 21, 2015

    @Iman,

    I definitely understand how you believed the man who you love. If in the United States, as Gail said, no one tends to question that closely what someone says. One meets someone and assume they are truthful until or unless there are tell-tale signs or someone lets the person know the other is shady and lying. I know it’s not unusual for a man to have a girlfriend on the side and the one doesn’t know about her – not right away anyhow, but to have another wife is a whole other ballgame. That type of deception or omission of the fact is HUGE!

    I know it’s extremely difficult for you right now. I’m glad Umair put it out there that it’s the woman’s responsibility to check a man out. Perhaps others are reading here who are single and will be mindful of it.

    I think you’re grasping at straws about needing proof that he is married. I could see if she told you she was married to him and he said he wasn’t. Then, you’d need proof of it. Most men lie and say they are NOT married when they are married. They don’t go the opposite way and say they are married when they aren’t. If he and his brother say he is married, the way I see it, he is married. What would having the proof change any wayhttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif

  • anabellah

    June 21, 2015

    @Iman,

    I don’t know how the skype thing works cuz I don’t skype. Nonetheless the policy of the 411 blog is that we don’t exchange email addresses, nor are email addresses or personal contact information posted on the blog. Any type of personal information such as it is not posted here. When the blog shut down and I thought it was permanent, emails were exchanged. Now that we re-opened, the policy is back in effect. Exchanging such information defeats the purpose of the blog. People go off and talk privately and then the blog become a place to connect people instead sharing here. Whatever Umair could share on the blog is good.

  • Iman

    June 21, 2015

    @Ana, Gail, and Umair,

    I am a Filipino converted to Islam. We do not have a children. The Pakistani girl doesn’t know that he was married in Saudi. I Am not sure if the girl is his cousin. I just want a proof that he is married because right now it is only words from him and his brother. Thank you Umair I hope you can help me to find their record in Pakistan. If you have any Skype account please can I have your name.

    @Ana, I know it’s my mistake also of fully trusting him before I married him but I guess when you you love the person you don’t give a doubt about them. It’s a big lesson to me now. It’s very difficult right now.

  • anabellah

    June 21, 2015

    @Iman,

    Gail made a good point that you need to think about whether you want to remain married to your husband or divorce. You never said whether you are Muslim or not. If you are Muslim, you know a man is permitted more than one wife. He married you in Saudi and your marriage is registered. He supposedly married her in Pakistan and their marriage most likely is registered. You know he declared her as his wife on Pakistan National Identity Card. If he claimed her and you know it, you should assume he married her. He told you that he married her. Why do you think he’s lying about it? He wanted your marriage registered only in Saudi most likely because he knew he’d marry the Pakistani girl.

    I know you are extremely hurt and in pain. It’s understandable. I totally understand you want to hurt him back. I just think you’re going to have a difficult time getting any help from the Saudi or the Pakistani authorities. Even if you were a Saudi national living in Saudi you’d probably have a better chance of getting some type of consideration.

  • anabellah

    June 21, 2015

    @Umair, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I’m glad you are still with us and thank you much for helping out with Iman’s situation. Again, I think you made a good point that a woman or her family is responsible for checking the background of the man before she gets involved with him, especially before she marries him. Based on what Iman has mentioned here, I don’t think she is a Saudi. She’s only working there. I’ve heard Saudi women are only allowed to marry of their own nationality, like you said. I don’t really know. I do know they don’t marry the help.

  • Umair

    June 21, 2015

    No,Iman hasn’t checked her family or her family didn’t bother to check the guy’s credentials,even if you Don’t know anyone but the UC record is not that easy to extract.There is a big load shedding(NO ELECTRICITY) issue,with the records are still in files(manuals) rather than in systems,which can be destroyed by fire.

    Yeah,they have made few laws as the time goes by as “HUDOOD LAWS”(LIMIT LAWS) for Adultery,Zina Ordinance.NO MARRIAGE under 18 yrs at all or at any costs,with ISLAM misused by it’s adherent with an 12yrs girl married to an old men,this can be classified as Blasphemy(INSULT on ISLAM),

    Iman has been fooled,so does the other girl now.Does the other girl knows,that his husband has already got a wife or kids/children?Can Iman contact her & save her from her life destroyed or get/extract the information from Pakistan’s ID Card Database(NADRA),if she is her cousin,that’s where all the data of PAKISTANI’S is stored,if they are not poor.

    Iman is the girl from Saudi Arabia,Right?I though Arab don’t marry with Pakistani or other nationalities with the women nationality revoked/cancelled in Gulf Countries?If you have any more questions contact me via video call or FT for iDevices.So i can see what i can do from my resources or links in Pakistan?

  • Gail

    June 21, 2015

    Umair,
    Your Welcome listen can u tell us if a Pakistani man has to get permission to take a second wife in Pakistan?
    Iman is struggling with her husbands second marriage behind her back.Can she legally do something in Pakistan to her husband for fooling her?

  • Gail

    June 21, 2015

    Iman,
    Honestly unless Pakistan has a law where the husband has to get first wife legal permission to remarry then I doubt their is to much u can do.
    Did u see how his family treated u?Mine treated me the same.I can not stand my inlaws because of how they treated me.
    Look the bottom line is he played u and is going to continue to play u if u let him.
    U might want to ask Pakistani Embassy if there is such a law in Pakistan that the husband has to get 1st wife permission before taking a second wife.I heard yrs ago there was such a law or they were trying to make a law or something to that effect but I truly don’t know.In m case my husband legally divorced his 1st wife to marry me to get USA immigration.
    If u seriously are wanting to bust him then ask Pakistan Embassy.
    Iman figure out if u r going to keep your husband or divorce him because u r going to open up a can worms and if push comes to shove he will divorce u and keep the Pakistani wife.So think before u just start demanding and spouting off.U know his family choice obviously is the Pakistani wife proceed cautiously is my best advice!
    If u can’t deal it just take the loss divorce and move on.

  • Umair

    June 21, 2015

    Gail,
    Thank you,for your kind words.Long Distance marriages & relationships are really hard,but now you can get the record from “Union Council”(UC).In older days it was not available in Pakistan but now ID Cards,Driving Licencses have improved significantly with RFID technology,better than US.So everything is integrated in one place.There are always going to be good & bad people everywhere,it’s the girls fault that the family(brothers & father) didn’t check the guy like it’s done in Pakistan big time.That’s her part of failure and her mistakes.

    Pakistan is very different to US,you don’t believe the word there with different grown up.

    Sorry for the delay & other part of the world from US.It’s really hectic due to Holy Month of Ramadan!

  • Iman

    June 21, 2015

    And after our marriage I was able to talk to his whole family via Skype..so I thought everything was okay until they decided to have an arrange marriage for him..now his mother is telling him that it is okay if I will still continue my relationship with his son since we are living in Saudi and paki girl is in Pakistan..I cannot stand to share my husband…

  • Iman

    June 21, 2015

    @ Gail and Ana,

    I worked as a nurse in Saudi since 2009 and I met my husband the same year and we got married 2011. I am not an immigrant here Buti have plans to work in an English open country. When I met him he is fully aware of my plans applying abroad and he agreed with that but after marriage I wasnt able to report my marriage in my embassy because my parents does not support my marriage with him. Nevertheless our union is legal in Saudi..on his part, he did not pass our papers in his embassy because he said no need and we need to process only our papers in Saudi… I thought it was okay like that.. Then he is already inviting me to go to his country to introduce to his parents but I was afraid that time until he decided to marry a Pakistani girl because of the sole reason that I don’t want to visit his country..I told him I was not ready that time but I think it’s not the main reason..there is something else..

    I want to know if there s a way I can find out if he is already married because I don’t think he will show me his marriage certificate with his paki girl. The pakistan embassy said they can check it with his national identity card and after vacation I will check for that one. Also, we first got married 2011 and paki girl was 2013.. He just renewed his pakistan national identity card last may and he declared as his wife the paki girl..does this mean that I am the second wife now and can I sue him without getting consent for his second marriage.

  • anabellah

    June 19, 2015

    @Gail,

    About Mari2, I remember as you do. It did go something like what you described. Mari2 is the bread winner and brains behind him other than his coniving mother. As you said, if she keeps contributing financially, he may fight for her. She could do whatever would make her life comfortable with him, but I wouldn’t suggest she help take care of the co, her family or his (which is all the same family). The co is no genuine sister-in-faith.

  • Gail

    June 19, 2015

    Umair,

    It is great to have u on the blog and being so open most Pakistani men just are not so forthcoming.I am thinking u might have some advice for foreign woman to help them discern if their husband maybe using them.
    I truly liken what is being done to foreign woman as mental rape and torture and I do not say this lightly but it really is how i feel about it .
    Foreign woman when they meet Pakistani men believe everything they say because well we r brought up to think if someone cares about u they will not lie to u or try to hurt u.It is a foreign concept to us alot of things like for example in USA u r only aloud to have one spouse so it would not enter a woman’s mind that he might already be married with children.In USA divorce is common so again if a man says he is divorced same thing no need to question that.In USA if someone says they r divorced 99.9% they r really divorced and this is where we get into trouble because we r naive and think the rest of the world is like us which we learn the hard way thats just not the case.
    Could u give some advice on maybe how to go about how a foreign woman can contact the Union Council to find out if he is actually married or divorced.
    In my case there really was no way for me to know he was lying because his entire family was in on the lie.I truly don’t know how I could have caught him because he did legally divorce his first wife in Pakistani court but kept her religiously(know what I mean).
    When foreign woman are faced with such odds against them it seems the odds r just impossible to find out the real truth.I don’t want u to feel like we r Pakistani male bashing it really has nothing to do with that it has to do with trying to save woman before they jump off that cliff into the great unknown and for the woman have already jumped it is a safe place for them to come and tell their story in hopes it might help save another foreign woman from getting hurt.
    Lastly I want to say there is really no way a foreign woman is going to go to Pakistan and walk in the street and ask people about her Fiance.She would not know to do that and if she ask his family questions they r going to lie so other than maybe contacting Union Council I have no idea how they could save themselves to investigate.I also think with Union Council they register the marriage where the marriage took place and not where the man live I think but i could be wrong.If u could answer that question if u know that would be such a great help for alot of woman.Thanks

  • Gail

    June 19, 2015

    Ana,
    The only saving grace Mari2 might have is if she supports her husband to a degree financially then he might fight for her but not because of her personally it would be for his own financial reasons because they use like that.On the flip side Mari2 should put all her money separate now and do not give him a dime and make him pay all the bills and see if sticks it out with her or if he takes a good long walk.For all I know her husband may pay everything and not ask nothing from her but I think I remember her saying she was wanting furniture or something in the past and she could not get it all the while he was planning and saving to marry his cousin back in Pakistan.I think it went something like that.If I am remembering correctly.

  • anabellah

    June 18, 2015

    @Gail,

    I’m interested too in how Mari2 and her marriage is going to pan out. It’s ashame the co and family can’t just back off Mari2 and her husband and just let them be. They are simply greedy. Polygamy is allowed. There is no need for the husband to get rid of Mari2, Islamic ally speaking. They are committing a serious wrong by implementing their own rules.

  • anabellah

    June 18, 2015

    @Umair,

    I’m near N.Y. a hop, skip and a jump away. I’m a Jersey girl all my life. I’m married to an American revert. AlI I know about Pakistanis and the culture I’m learning on this blog, especially from our lovely “Gail” here who is American, married to a Pakistani male and was bamboozled by him. She and her marriage survived and she’s here to tell about it. Yay :-)

  • Umair

    June 18, 2015

    Hi Ana,

    Which part of US?NY or LA?Did someone did it with you or you reverted to marry with him?For sure get to know the facts from Pakistan by any means,as these men have brought Islam & Pakistan to blasphemy(disrepute).

    That means i am at the other end of the world from you?

    Gail,is right inlaws are also involved including mother & sisters of the boy(groom),no doubt about it!

  • Gail

    June 18, 2015

    Ana,
    It funny u mentioned a scorned woman doing a Paki man in.I honestly believe it will happen.What these men are doing is a mental rape and torture and I am honestly surprised it has not already happened.Also it would not shock me any if u get a woman that finds out her inlaws were in on the scam also and do the entire family in.
    Now mind u I am not advocating this but I can sure tell u the thought crossed my mind a few times when i was going through that hell.Thanks G.D I am of sound mind and would never harm a fly much less a person but Yeah!
    Mari2 is on my mind and how her situation is going to eventually play out.I also think about how her MIL mistreated her and how her situation seems so close to my own.

  • anabellah

    June 17, 2015

    @Umair,

    I know the blog is a bit complex to use for newbies here. We changed the format and put the comment box at the top when it’s usually at the bottom LOL Then we have the monthly discussion thread going on. It’s a lot to figure out initially, but it gets easier.

    I’m in the good ole U.S. of A all my life. I’d love to visit London. Love the weather (dreary, I’ve heard) and love the accent.

    I try to learn as much as I can about our religion and focus primarily on the Holy Quran. About the reverts and the Pakistani men, from what I’m learning, the Pakistani men don’t discriminate. They bamboozle reverts, Westernized Pakistani woman (living in the West) and non-Muslim women. They latch on to whomever that can hitch onto. They love every and all women who can help them :-( I wouldn’t be surprised one day to read in the news that one of these women who have been used do one of them in. You know what I’m saying? (murder)http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

  • Umair

    June 17, 2015

    Hi Ana,thank you for kind words,http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif
    Still getting hold or learning about the blog,as I can't reply below your comment.I have to write a new comment,sorry for typos(keyboard).Yes,you must meet his family,these type of men are well known in Pakistan & being rejected…
    Ana,you have quite a knowledge of "Islam".Goo d to know,are you from London?

    Avoid these PR(Not Pyar),Pyar means love,as they bring quite a bad name to Pakistan & Islam for their own gains.Now women who has reverted(left her family & religion) must not be treated in this manner at all.Sorry you forgot other white girls countries(Canada,Australia,NZ) etc?

    Be very wary of those men as immigration & PR are getting tighter & tighter & harder & harder to get in Western countries,as the article by Warsi point out perfectly!

  • anabellah

    June 17, 2015

    Umair, Hi there and welcome, :-)

    Thank you very much for joining us and for commenting. It’s good to know you agree with what was written here. We all just want to get the truth out there. As I continue to state, we are not saying ALL Pakistani men are like it. Of course they All aren’t. There are some and we write about those some based on what we know from people who have experienced what we’ve written about. They talk about it here on this blog.

    You are absolutely correct. The woman is responsible for investigating the man before she gets involved with him. It goes for ANY man a woman gets involved with. Allah in the Holy Quran lets us know that we are to investigate. We need to check people out. The woman has to take responsibility for the part she plays in all of it as well. She needs to do her homework. We live and we learn it…

  • Umair

    June 17, 2015

    Hi Ana,

    You are right,but the onus is on white or foreign women to check them in their origin country of Pakistan…I am a Pakistani myself,but I agree with you & your observation?

    Regards,

    Umair

  • anabellah

    June 15, 2015

    @Gail,

    I’d like to know more of Iman’s story, as well. I was a little bit baffled when she said she was in Saudi and married this Pakistani guy. Now that you mentioned she may be a worker in Saudi and Asian, it makes perfectly good sense. I’d like to hear from her about it. You’ve got a lot on the noggin, Gail :-) I like reading your posts. I learn a lot.

    Yeap, about polygamy in the United States, people hear all the time that polygamy is not lawful. They don’t realize that although polygamy is not lawful, it’s not a crime. There is no law on the books to charge anyone with. If anyone went to the police about it, they’d get thrown out the precinct LOL

    The only time we hear of polygamous situations in the news is when a Mormon’s compound gets raided and they charge the polygamist men with marrying an under aged girl (sex assault) or domestic abuse or some other offense that is a law on the books. One never hears of a person in jail for polygamy.

    There are so many reasons not to have a law against polygamy. It would be a violation of a person’s constitutional rights regarding freedom of religion, for one. It’s way too complicated to make polygamy illegal. Basically, in the United States when it’s said polygamy is unlawful. It means it’s not recognized as a marriage. Only a marriage with a registered license is.

    So, the U.S. goes after the immigrants trying to migrate here and make sure they have no intent to engage in polygamy while in the U.S. Immigrants stand to get deported. They are the ones that must be careful. Their are special rules regarding immigrants. I’m not knowledgeable on the immigration laws. It’s more of a civil matter than criminal.

    About bigamy, I’ve only seen people prosecuted for it on “Life Time” movies on TV. LOL no, but for real. I’ve never seen it in reality.

  • Gail

    June 14, 2015

    Ana,
    Yeah I figured it would fall under bigamy but I was not sure how it would work if he was married in another country.I kinda figured if he is an American Citizen bigamy charges would stick if their was enough evidence but yeah if Iman is in Saudi then she really has no legal recourse as far as I would know unless she is a Saudi citizen and they have to get permission from first wife before doing second marriage.I am certain her husband is not a Saudi citizen and if I am guessing correct she is going to be from some Asian country herself sooo to be frank unless she has something like money or foreign citizenship to keep him his family is going to do exactly what they did and marry him with a Pakistani woman.

    Iman if u r from a poor Asian country and I have no idea that u are but I suspect that u r a worker yourself in Saudi(I don’t know if Saudi woman marry Pakistani men I have always heard Pakistani is hired help and the Saudi woman use them for sex only but not marriage)This is just what I have heard so take that with a grain of salt but like I was saying if u r from a poor Asian country I think u will be of no use to him in the long run and I do not mean this in a bad way but they size wives up as expendable and not expendable understand.If u are from a European Country u will have more Kick him in the B@lls power understand? Let us know more about your situation as I am very curious how this happen to u and maybe u can help other woman from your story hugssss……..

  • anabellah

    June 14, 2015

    @Gail,

    I would love to give some advice from a legal perspective to these ladies, if I was capable. I don’t have the expertise though. When I was working in the Criminal Justice field, I had next to no dealings with ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). The most contact I had with them was to notify Immigration when we got a conviction on a case of mine or arrested an illegal alien. Most of the time Immigration never wanted to be bothered unless the conviction was for a homicide, drug trafficking, sex assault or an enumerated felony. I’m sure you know way more about Immigration than I do.

    There is no crime for polygamy in the U.S. The person would have to violate some other law to get investigated. It’s why no one hear of anyone being charged or convicted for polygamy. There is no charge – only a charge for bigamy. Having more than one registered marriage. I think Iman said she’s in Saudi Arabia, If I’m not getting my facts mixed up. Polygamy may be legal in both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. If so, she’s got no leg to stand on. I don’t know the laws in those countries, so she shouldn’t hold me to what I said. She has to investigate.

    I’d suggest any woman who thinks she’s been bamboozled by one of these men (Pakistani) contact immigrations herself and ask questions about what her recourse is. She doesn’t have to give the identity of the person of interest (her husband). She should also speak with an immigration attorney, as well. Get a consultation. In the U.S it’s quite easy to find an attorney who would give a free consultation.

  • Gail

    June 14, 2015

    Ana,
    Yeah it is almost beyond belief that an entire family could be in on it and the wife be the last to know.It is the worst betrayal in the world because not only your husband betrayed u but your inlaws did as well.It is a mental rape is the only way I can describe it and the woman it happens to are beyond mortified.I mean think about it who r they going to tell or confide in without sounding like a complete idiot?Most of the time family is against them to even marry outside of their race and culture like in my case.The sad part is the girl will pick the husband over everyone else telling her don’t do it and her husband knows this and she will sit and think back and then she will think and my husband knew i went against everyone to marry him and all the time he was laughing inside playing me for a fool.Yeah it runs very deep.Thats why I said they only know being kicked in the B@lls because they sure don’t mind kicking their wives in the P@ss!
    Ana since u have a legal background u might be able to give more advice to these woman what they can do legally when they r used like this since this is not really as much about polygamy as getting scammed.All I thought to do on my time was keep emails of chats and pictures and marriage certificates and their daughter being born after our marriage etc…I flat told my husband I had all this proof against him man i was so pissed that time.

  • anabellah

    June 14, 2015

    @Gail,

    I just got one heck of an unexpected laugh. You said, “I understand these people very well and they only understand kicking them in the B@lls and making it hurt understand?” Laughing smiley face You are just too funny, but I believe you are right. Those men are some sly little devils.

    I feel very badly for Iman. What has happened has to be almost killing her. I never thought of it, but what you said about the women going through a “secret Mental breakdown” has to be so true. It’s bad enough that a woman knows polygamy is permissible in Islam and gets hit with it (her husband becoming polygamous). It’s another thing if the person never, ever saw it coming. I’m not sure whether Iman is Muslim or not. If not, what has happened has to be beyond devastating. Most of us are familiar with what she is going through, but you can relate to her a bit better due to the Pakistani commonality. It’s one thing to have a husband marry and become polygamous. It’s far worst for a woman to find out she’s been played, used, manipulated, toyed with and the family was in on it!!! It hurts like the dickens, I’m sure.

  • Gail

    June 14, 2015

    Imran,
    Listen one more thing try not to stress out ok.U r not alone this things happens everyday unfortunately.The things I been through would make your head spin so please take a deep breath and think if u want polygamy or not first then find out from him like i explain to u what his plans are.Do not believe anything he says on face value since has been proven to be a liar with u.Get your proof then go from there.

  • Gail

    June 14, 2015

    Imran,
    I know exactly how u feel.Everyone being in on the marriage and keeping u in the dark.Let me ask a few questions first ok.
    1. Did he get immigration or a greencard from marrying u?
    2. The girl he married is she his cousin?
    3.Do u have kids with him?
    4.Do u know who this girl is?

    Listen chances r the girl that married him either doesn’t know about u or she was told he married u only for immigration but either way she is not going to divorce him or leave him even if she didn’t know because she is already married to him.
    Now in saying that do u have anything of legal value like a home,business,assets.money that u share with your husband in whatever country u r from?If u do then u need to start securing your assets ASAP before u do anything.Do not start screaming until u have secured your assets understand.Now after u secure your assets u keep yourself mentally in check and do not let him see it bothers u understand?Just play along for the time being and tell him u thought about it and although u don’t like it whatever.just play it off.If u will listen to me and play it off then u r going to get all information out of him that u need to hang him.I understand these people very well and they only understand kicking them in the B@lls and making it hurt understand?
    What I mean by that u get all the money out of your and his account and put only in your name.Secure your money but listen before all this u need to fake it and tell him u are ok about it but u want information on this woman he married.tell him u want to talk with her etc… the reason I say this is because once u find out all info about her and try to get wedding photos of them(very helpful) tell him u want to see the marriage certificate ask him why he did not invite u to the wedding.I mean quiz the crap out of him understand and again take notes.
    Listen after u find out everything u need to know u say in a nice helpful way that u were thinking she should come to your country and live with u guys.He is an idiot he will take the bait more than likely and his answer will tell u clear if he is planning on divorcing u to bring her to your country understand?
    Now once u have figured out yes he has plans to divorce u to bring her to your country and only after u have proof then u can go to an attorney and say hey my husband did this with me.
    Here is the thing if u don’t want a divorce then u can scream at him and threaten him that if he dares try to divorce u that u r running to the courts and immigration and remind him that polygamy is not legal I assume in your country.
    If u r in USA don’t worry as long as u r married to him he can’t bring his second wife to USA but I figure since his family married him they used u for immigration and they will try to get rid on u now and if it is not immigration still they will get rid of u if he married u behind his families back because that girl is Pakistani and they will have to deal the wrath of her family if they keep u to long.That is what happened with me.My husband married me for immigration and then when i found out 8 yrs down the road I screamed like a dog so much so I flat told him I would tell on him and contact immigration.Man i was pissed off and could have murdered him that time to be frank but i kept my cool collected emails between my cowife and myself with her admitting everything had her picture their marriage certificate etc.. She thought she was coming to USA so she kept her mouth shut as hubby took the kids to USA thinking next time was her turn.Well i informed her she would not be coming to USA ever because I am his only legal wife and I also informed hubby if he dared try anything fishy I would rip his A$$ very good.
    Now in my case i was lucky u kinda can say because my cowife showed her true colors and hubby and i have a son together.Long story short he picked me over her and kicked her to the curb.I tried to make it work but Pakistani woman do not accept Polygamy as whole.They are against it very much.We have one lady Spirited on here and another CoCo those r the only 2 i ever seen that was willing to accept it but as a normal they r not.
    Hope this helps u can ask me questions if u need to ok.Don’t let him do this to u.His family and him planned this against u and never trust that family in the future is my advice.

  • Iman

    June 14, 2015

    @Gail

    Thank you for your response. We are married already before he married the Pakistani girl but he kept it from me and only last month he decided to admit to me.. I would like to know if I can sue him for what he did or if I can do something to fight for our marriage. I cannot accept that all of them lied to me and they will just throw me away like that.

    Please Gail give me some advice on what to do..you have been to Pakistan and already seen their culture. I want him to divorce his wife in pakistan or at least let her know that his husband was married before.. I want to know if there is a legal way to do that…

  • Gail

    June 12, 2015

    umar bajra,
    I am curious did u benefit by getting UK citizenship by marrying your wife?Second will u have to marry a cousin in the future to keep the family peace? I am not trying to be nasty with u I am just really curious if u r planning on practicing polygamy in the future by marrying one of your cousins? If so does your wife know?

  • Gail

    June 12, 2015

    Iman,
    I read your post and I can tell u that your boyfriend is out and out lying to u.There is no such thing as a secret wedding in Pakistan.I am a white woman married to a Pakistani man for 12 yrs.U need to decide if u can handle living polygamy because that is exactly what u r being faced with and with a liar if u marry him.Can u deal with him being more devoted to his cousin wife than to u since she is family and his parents will prefer her over u? I will tell u straight it is no walk in the park and unless u r from that culture u will regret it.Polygamy is fine but cousin marriages combined with Polygamy is a whole different ballgame let me tell ya!

  • anabellah

    June 12, 2015

    @Umar bajra,

    Correction:

    I mentioned some acts and said “Believers” wouldn’t do them. I WAS WRONG! All people sin – Believers, as well. I should have said they do those acts, as well, BUT they realize the acts are wrong, and make their intent not to commit them again. When they do do the unlawful or sinful acts, they repent and ask Allah’s forgiveness and Mercy. I had to make that correction, as NO ONE is free of sin. A Believer is one who repents. Requiring one to repent, lets us know we will sin. A major difference is one group of people knows what a sin is and cares about whether they commit it or not. Some people don’t fear Allah.

  • anabellah

    June 12, 2015

    @Umar bajra, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    Welcome and thank you very much for commenting, my brother. I’m sorry to hear the article has caused some disturbance in your marriage. You certainly don’t sound like the Pakistani men whom we have read about here on this blog. You were a student who went to the UK for the purpose of furthering your education, and didn’t anticipate meeting, and falling in love with a foreigner. Your agenda wasn’t the same as some. I don’t know if you are promised to a cousin girl in Pakistan, and must deal with it still. http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif

    Please know I did not say that all Pakistani men who are married to white girls from the U.K or the U.S are with them for naturalization/citizenship/Immigration. It is just that there seems to be a pattern with some, based on the stories we have heard here on the blog. I understand how your wife’s girlfriend became concerned when she read the article. She probably cares very much for her friend, and want her to know what happens with some of the Pakistani men when they hook up with women from the U.K and the U.S. Her friend doesn’t know you well enough to say you are not like those men. She may have simply been looking out for her friend’s best interest.

    About the part you spoke of that white men go to the bars, pubs, clubs, drink away all their money away on alcohol and make their wives work – well, first of all, I don’t think those white men make their wives work. In the U.S, I know men can’t MAKE women do much of anything. Women are just too liberated here for all that. Most women want to work because they are independent, and want their own. Some have to work to supplement their husband’s income because the women have a lifestyle they want to live and maintain, which they can’t do on just their husbands’ salary. When I married my husband, he said he’d pay all our expenses and I wouldn’t have to spend a dime of my money. I’m like – no way Jose – you ain’t buying me and make me subservient to you. I pay my own way. He pays the basic expenses and I contribute to our lives to make it comfortable for both of us. I don’t want anyone telling me that he will give me what he wants me to have, when he wants me to have it and I have to be a slave to him. That’s bull crap.

    About men drinking alcohol, going to the pubs, bars, clubs and getting wasted, yeah, SOME do. So, what? http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif They aren’t Muslim. Drinking alcohol is legal in the U.S.

    All the stuff your wife told you about white people isn’t surprising and probably doesn’t only apply to white people. Anyone who doesn’t believe in Allah, fear Allah, serve and worship Allah (is a Muslim/BELIEVER) do all kinds of things a believer wouldn’t do. They do evil, commit mischief, deal in conjecture and lie etc. I’m not making this stuff up. Allah says it in the Holy Quran.

    On another note, is the white girl, who you married, Muslim? I didn’t think so. You said she wanted you to move in with her before you and she considered marriage. So, why does she is she making such a big deal over white men drinking alcohol? It’s all the norm for non-Muslims in the U.S.

  • Umar bajwa

    June 12, 2015

    Salam
    All brother and sister . I am a pakistani and i got married to a white girl in uk . When i met her the first time i really liked her and she as well . We started to meet. She said me to move with her and i said i cant i am a muslim and i cant ( never even touched her). I was a student and i wanted to finish my studies and go back never imagined in my life that i will marry any white girl . I finished my studies and i was planning to go back . She stopped me and to be honest i was madly in love with her . We got married because there was no other way . Now we are married and living happily and one of my wife stupid friend posted this article to creat trouble . Though my wife does not care but me as a pakistani got so much pissed off . My all family back in pakistan knows abt my marrige we are planning to go to pakistan and celebrate marrige in pakistani way as well . After getting married to a white girl i came across many other white girls married to pakistani men and some living in pakistan ( islamabad) . Its completely unfair to call all pakistani men who are married to white girls are after the citizenship / immigration watever . Now i will tell u something else why girls get attracted to pakistani men in uk cuz we respect our wives we work hard save money try to start a business to get a better life style not make our wives work . We dont go to pubs and clubs and get drunk and spend all our money is beers and alcohole and get wasted . That stupid stupid friend of my wife is with a old ugly white guy cuz of his money and i think is not happy and trying to mess around with other .
    Not all the pakistani men are greedy for staying in uk / us .. My wife told me so many things abt white ppl most of them cheat when ever they get a chance so many divorces .
    So pleasee don’t put all the pakistani men in the same category .
    Thanks

  • anabellah

    June 6, 2015

    @Iman,

    Try to enjoy your vacation. Try to be happy. I know it’s not easy right now for you with what you’re dealing with. The pain should end, eventually; hopefully sooner than later.

    Don’t let him put a guilt trip on you. Don’t let him blame you for him becoming polygamous. He went and married someone else behind your back, and wasn’t up front with you. He did it. You didn’t do a thing, but love him and marry him. Don’t let him put his crap on you and say it’s your fault. It’s not. He needs to take responsibility for what he has done – own up to it.

    His parents didn’t arrange a marriage for him SECRETLY. I have learned from others on this blog that the parents plan the marriages for their kids when they are born or are children. You best believe your husband knew who he was going to marry long before he married her. It was no big surprise that he wants to lead you to believe. He needs to stop lying. I think the biggest problem you’ll have with him is that he tells big fat lies…

  • anabellah

    June 6, 2015

    @white dragon, hello there :-)

    You made a very good point. Perhaps all men do lie. Lying is not an exclusive trait that Pakistani men have. Nonetheless, one should acknowledge there is a pattern that exists with many Pakistani men. Lying seems to be part of the men’s way of life. They are from an impoverished, third world country and survival is first and foremost. They have found a way to make a better way and life for themselves and their families that entails using others (foreign) women to get it. Lies and deception are their tools.

    The purpose of the post, “Marry a Pakistani man. Beware!” is to forewarn women and let them know they should investigate a potential Pakistani spouse as he may have an agenda. He may have a wife in Pakistan or intend to have one there some day. The woman who is considering him for a husband could expect to be in a polygamous marriage, if she marries him.

    “Pakistan is one of the poorest countries in the world with many of its citizens living in poverty. This makes it difficult for the inhabitants of Pakistan to get a good healthcare policy. The main problem with the Pakistani economy is the instability of the government. With constant changes in government and their policies it has been very difficult to either attract foreign investment or for the economy to grow internally. The country has made some changes to help the economy grow in recent years the growth has been strong. Unfortunately the growth has been accompanied by very high levels of inflation. This has left most Pakistanis worse off than before.” To read more, here is the link: http://defence.pk/threads/is-pakistan-third-world.172400/

  • white dragon

    June 6, 2015

    i dont think lies are only to be associated with pakistanis i think all men lie just saying

  • Iman

    June 5, 2015

    Thank you Ana. Your message and this blog will help me a lot to lead to a decision. I am on a vacation right now and I cannot find a way to enjoy it since my mind is preoccupied with this painful situation. I just hope the pain will end..

    He told me that the reason he get married in Pakistan is because I am afraid to go to their place in Sialkot. And that he is tired of waiting for me.

    I know he was trying to send a message to me about their culture but really it is unacceptable that you married someone and his parents arranged marriage for him secretly. Still confused on what to do. My mind is troubled if I will stay or leave

  • anabellah

    June 5, 2015

    @Iman,

    At least he is letting you know he won’t stand in your way, if you need to leave the marriage. In essence, he is letting you know that he intends to keep his other wife. He’s not leading you on to make you think he will leave her or can’t leave her because of some lame excuse he comes up with. He is letting you know straight that you would have to accept polygamy, the way he intends to live his life, and what he does, as it will be no other way, if you remain with him.

    It’s one thing for a man to come clean and let a woman know he is married or will marry again after he marries her, which would make him polygamous. It gives the woman the respect and opportunity to accept such conditions and type of marriage or not. It’s a shame the Pakistan men get the foreign women emotionally invested and then slam dunk them with information that practically destroys them and the women are left having a difficult time trying to figure out which way is up. Sad Eyes I know how painful it must be for you, as you deeply love the man. Stay strong, and don’t despair. You will be okay… We are here for you.

  • anabellah

    June 5, 2015

    @Iman, hello

    I really feel for you about what you are going through. It saddens me that so many women are being manipulated and bamboozled by Pakistani men. Based on all I’ve learned about some Pakistani men and the Pakistani culture, while this blog has been in existence, it seems that lying and taking advantage of foreign women have become a part of the Pakistani culture for Pakistani men. It’s as though they all get schooled that they should prepare to marry a “cousin” or Pakistani woman in Pakistan, but go out of the country to seduce, use and marry foreign women. It’s part of their M.O. (modus Operandi – method of operating). The parents and family of these men are in on the scam.

    I can tell you that you are definitely not alone in what has happened to you. You have read enough on this site probably to have already realized it. There isn’t much I can tell you to do, as much as I’d like to help. I can say that you will have to make your intention to stay married to him, live a polygamous life, and accept the type of man that you have married or find the strength to divorce him – kiss his lying @$$ goodbye. If I were you and opt to divorce him, I’d take the dirt bag to the cleaners, meaning I’d take him for everything I could get as punitive measures. Let the courts know all of what has happened. You’d get better results if you were living in the U.S. or the West. I don’t think you’ll get any relief from a court in Saudi Arabia. I think what these Pakistani men do is despicable and low, especially from men who call themselves Muslims.

    Gail, is a dear commentator who is part of our blog family here. I really hope she is reading now or sooner than later. She has been very busy in her personal life and doesn’t get here as often as she used to. I consider her our Pakistan expert, as she is married to a Pakistani Muslim male, and has lived in Pakistan. Perhaps she could shed some light on what you could possibly do about this matter.

  • Iman

    June 5, 2015

    Another problem is that our marriage contract is valid only in Saudi arabia and he did not submit it in his country.so although we got married first last 2011, it appeared that he was still single when he married in Pakistan last 2013. Thus made me the 2nd wife.. My husband said I can decide on my own if I still want to be with him it’s okay but I told him I cannot stay with him knowing he has another wife..I love him so much and the situation is really killing me…

  • Iman

    June 5, 2015

    Hi Ana, Hi sister Ana! I read your blog, comments and advices and I’m desperate to be in touch with you so you can give me insights also with my current situation… Please help me…. I am a Filipino and working In Saudi as a nurse. I met my Pakistani husband last 2009 and we got married 2011. Of course, I believed on him that he will not marry another woman based on their culture. Before we get married, I was introduced to his family thru Internet and that time I know he was still single. Everyone was good to me though with language barrier, my husband was my translator. Since we get married he was always asking me to go with him to Pakistan but I’m still afraid that time..last 2013 he went for vacation to attend his brothers wedding and little did I know that he will get married also that time.Thus, this may 2015 he admitted that he was already married.. It is very painful and until now I cannot understand everything..Please help me what to do..our papers were not submitted in his country and so the Pakistani wife turned out to be the first wife..please help me…I still love him so much…

  • Gail

    June 3, 2015

    Mama T,
    It depends on what country u r in.If u r in another country other than Pakistan u r fine because they freak out fast and don’t want to get into trouble and loose immigration status or jail etc… Frankly though in your case if u do live in USA your daughter is over 18 so nothing legally u can do unless u find out he is married back in Pakistan which unless his Pakistani wife is deceased he is trying to practice polygamy then and only then u can nail him but there is nothing wrong with polygamy soooo best advice is show your daughter this site and if that don’t work lay down the law and tell her straight u r not leaving her anything etc.. Again i doubt it will work because she is young and clueless.Sorry to hear u r going through this mess.

  • anabellah

    May 30, 2015

    @Mama T,

    I don’t think the 64 year old has brainwashed your daughter. He possibly is happier than he has ever been. He possibly does love her. Furthermore, he may think and feel he cannot live without her. I’m sure he wanted the relationship to be a secret, as well. He knows that anyone who knows of them would object to a 20 year old woman being with a man who is 44 years older that she is. He wouldn’t want anyone to influence her against him.

    Usually when someone refuses to allow someone to do something, it makes the person want more what is forbidden. She’s a twenty year old grown young woman who believes she has become of age, and can do what she wants. I think most young people who have grown up in the West think that way. Sometimes you have to leave people alone to make mistakes in life and hopefully they will learn from the mistakes.

    We can’t live people’s lives for them. We could only give the best advice we have, admonish people and the rest is on them. There may come a time when your daughter will realize the man is way too old for her and she wants to be with a man more her age. You have let your daughter know your thoughts and how you feel about her relationship with “grandpa”, now you may have to back off and let your daughter do her (live her life).

    As for the allegation that he is violent, has she given you any indication that he is other than telling you he is. She could very well be using it as a means to make you back up off her and leave her alone.

    You asked what you could expect if you expose him to his family. My guess is it will cause major strife in his family. Nevertheless, he may still continue to see your daughter despite his family’s opposition. They will see your daughter as an active participant in the affair and blame her as much as him. People have a tendency to blame the person whom they don’t love. It’s easier. They don’t love your daughter. Most importantly, you may lose a daughter. She may express anger towards you and distance herself from you. She may continue to see him and you’ve hurt yourself more. If you let the relationship play itself out, and accept that it’s your daughters life to live, you could at least retain a relationship with her. I’d say leave it be unless you find out without doubt that he is violent and becomes violent towards her. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

  • anabellah

    May 30, 2015

    @Mama T,

    With regard your other post, you could use the “Contact Us” form to email me. I’m the only one who receives mail there.

    All I learned about Pakistan, the customs of Pakistani people and their culture was primarily from commentators on the blog and particularly our dear commentator “Gail” who has been with us here at polygamy 411 for years now. Although she is no longer in a polygamous marriage, she still graces us with her presence from time to time and input. She’s truly an amazing, awesome person.

  • anabellah

    May 30, 2015

    @Mama T,

    Welcome! I apologize for the late response. I’ve been tied up (not literally, but figuratively) LOL. Insha Allah (God Willing) I’ll be back to chat with you ASAP. I haven’t read your post yet. Thank you for your patience and understanding. :-)

  • Mama T

    May 29, 2015

    My 20 year old daughter became friends with a 64 year old, married, grandfather, pakastani man.
    He’s brainwashed her into believing she makes him happier then he has ever been, he loves her and that he cannot live without her.
    We have forbidden her from seeing him but we know she still does.
    She has told us that he always wanted the relationship to be their secret, and he does not want to be exposed to his family. I have not exposed him yet because she has led us to believe he is violent. If I go and expose him what type of reaction can I expect.

  • anabellah

    May 24, 2015

    @penelope, Hello

    You live it (life) and you learn it. Just be thankful he was only your boyfriend and you didn’t marry the cheating, lying, slimy slug. Try to stay clear of Pakistani men and investigate any foreign man before you date him or better yet, stick with your own kind. The foreigner could want you for more than love. It could be for a “Green Card” (Immigration), to have you as a second wife or anything for that matter. Investigate the person before you get involved with him, if you’re going to deal with foreign.

  • penelope

    May 23, 2015

    Hi,
    I am in college in a relationship with a man who I love. I found out last week he’s been cheating on me. I thought we were in a closed relationship because he said he wanted to be exclusive but he slept with this one girl. I wish I had known about this cultural aspect to men from Pakistan

  • Aussie girl

    May 19, 2015

    Thanks Gail, luckily Id researched heaps before I last spoke to him when I revealed I knew about the overlap. I was able to tell him Id spoken to other Islamic guys and they’d said its not Islam, that kind of “do this for me or I will get with someone else” mentality is cultural but for dickheads only. What Ive learned from this site is that not telling the first woman about the other until a couple of days before the wedding is a cultural polygamist style behaviour too. I feel relieved I have an explanation for that one as that was the point where I felt mentally raped. I also told him his behaviour is dodgy and creepy to which he naiively laughed. It left me wondering if this means he is polygamous and if hes going to do it to his new wife eventually too when he doesn’t get his way with something. I dont know how she couldnt have known as she was his flatmate. I’m an academic feminist researcher so this has fascinated me more than anything. The other thing that fascinates me is how Pakistani polygamy laws have changed to cater for the desires of stressed out men during times of turmoil. It would be great to make something positive out of all of this, just what yet Im not sure, Im also an artist so maybe a really big embarrassing postmodernist art piece about this would be good. In Australia this could be perceived as Islamophobia by the leftists however. Its a very multilayered situation. His connections made me too afraid to ever vent in anyway so its been a great relief to do it here. Thanks ladies :)

  • Gail

    May 18, 2015

    aussie girl,

    Welcome! Sadly this is happening all over the world and I am so happy the blog has been able to call this problem out.I do feel as though it is a crime against woman as I feel it is a type of mental rape in a way because if woman from rich countries knew what these men were up to they would never look twice at them.I am sorry u had to go through that.Thanks for letting people know it is going on in Australia as well.I truly believe anywhere there is a Pakistani men there will be this problem.

  • Aussie girl

    May 15, 2015

    Yes I used to give him lots of leeway because I couldn’t work out what was cultural difference or not. I want to say I’ve spoken to heaps of Pakistani’s since to help get over it. He is high up (at least thats what he said and his facebook pictures showed that too) in a political family. Apparently these children are allowed to do what ever they like. Taxi drivers here have told me 99% of Pakistani marriages in Australia aren’t real but they are all getting very scared of terror in Pakistan and even the corrupt deserve to get away. Most of the Pakistanis I spoke to were much more honest than him. Don’t worry I did learn heaps and treat it as a learning experience, and the good times were awesome. Ive just never met such a big ridiculous liar in all my life. I love your response and thank you. His wife is Australian too. I’d send her this link but hopefully shes already reading it like I was.

  • anabellah

    May 15, 2015

    @Aussie girl,

    Welcome to the 411. Thank you much for taking time to share your views with us.

    I must say you should be grateful to the Almighty that He did not let you marry that Loser. I want to say the loser is unbelievable, but what you experienced is very BELIEVABLE. I suggest you learn a valuable lesson from your experience and stick to your own kind. I really don’t know if it’s worth the time and trouble to mix up with foreigners in marriage. You never know what their agenda is. There is the cultural difference one must deal with, as well.

    I thank you much for sharing your experience with us here. I hope others read and think twice about hooking up with Pakistani men unless they investigate them thoroughly or are willing to go down the path of misery willingly. I’m sure there are good Pakistani men out there, but who has the time to weed between them when there are far more fishes in the sea. Throw the Pakistani ones back…

  • Aussie girl

    May 15, 2015

    Hello ladies, I’d just like to let you know its happening in Australia too. Im also an older woman (career woman) with a bit of money. Luckily my parents placed a constraint on me so I couldn’t marry my Pakistani partner as quickly as he urged me to, when he asked I said not straight away but possibly later. I never intended to marry him straight away but he kept manipulating me by saying he would go back to Pakistan in six weeks, and kept using circular coercive conversations. Because I didn’t marry him between 3-6 months into our relationship he started repetitively saying he had the right to get with someone else. He said he had no other wife, was getting old but also wanted to make money quickly in Australia. It turns out he started seeing another girl before we broke up. I was unaware of this. He had also said a couple of weeks before we broke up that he would be happy for me to spend an extra $100,000 AUD on buying a house that he could live in with me which I was very close to doing. Two weeks before we broke up (almost at the year mark) he came into my room hissing and saying a girl he respects from Pakistan said he couldn’t even get a “f*#got” to marry him for a visa. He then hissed at me that I never gave him a visa. After we broke up he kept visiting me and saying “if I get a girlfriend I want you to say Im your friend, dont say I did this, dont say I did that…” Trying to cover his tracks with all of the rude stuff he did to me. I kind of guessed he may already be seeing someone and intending to marry and he may have been lying for a while so I went to see a Pakistani psychologist who said no one who would put you under that much pressure would really love you. He told me about the wedding to the other girl three days before it happened (and invited me!) I now think with this kind of behaviour he probably already has a wife in Pakistan. His facebook never had pictures of anyone else except for himself in them, but you’d see different feminine hands taking the different photos. He also deleted his facebook account as soon as he got married. His parents names were incongrous with his which I thought was cultural. He also got all of his friends to lie to me about their jobs. I only found out about all of his lies by interrogating him saying I already had evidence but wouldnt say where from. This guy was as deceiptful/as greedy as they come. When he admitted he was seeing her at the same time as me I asked him to never contact me again. The other day he had the gall to park on my street (which is quite small) and to walk along it with his wife while ignoring me. When I first met him he said he knows many jealous women who are possesed by “ginni” ghosts but when prodding him further, it was always because he had cheated on them, offended them by being sexist etc. etc. I’m putting this up to let people know its happening in Australia too.

  • ummof4

    May 11, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    White Muslim from Europe, you did not understand my comment. I do not blame women and not hold men responsible. Nothing could be further from the truth. I only gave advice to you, concerning you, because you were the one who wrote to the blog. Of course, it takes two to make a baby. Never did I say that the man who impregnated you is not responsible.
    Both of you need to repent to Allah, but I was just talking to you. If you decide to stay with him and marry him, that’s your choice. If you decide to leave him alone, that’s your choice. It sounds like you are going to leave him alone.

    Everyone, try to obey Allah today and beg for His mercy and forgiveness.

  • anabellah

    May 8, 2015

    @White Muslim from Europe,

    I understand your rationale for not marrying the father of your child. The way he lives is not Islam. According to Islam, children are to be kind to their parents and obedient to them if they follow Islam. Children, for instance, are not supposed to curse their parents, abuse them, yell at them, mistreat them, throw them into nursing homes and never talk to them again and things of that nature. Some people and many of whom are Pakistani’s have taken it to the extreme in that they believe a parent owns the child and the child is a slave to the parent. Parents and children believe the parents have a right to control the children’s lives and make the children subservient to them. It ludicrous.

    Were you to marry the father of your child, you best be prepared for his parents, especially the mother, to control your life, as well, cuz he probably does exactly what his mother says. If she says jump, he asks, how high? It’s, if he’ll even let them know about you and your child.

    I understand how you would feel slighted that he thought you good enough to sleep with and impregnate, but then go off to marry another woman making her a legal wife. It does take a man and a woman to make a baby. I get aggravated with everyone throwing all the weight for everything onto the woman, making her the heavy.
    Each and every day I’m more and more grateful to Allah that I live in the United States of America. You better make sure you keep yourself away for those countries with predominately people who call themselves “Muslims”. I thank Allah much for the good ole U S of A. People pretty much mind their own business here and leave you the heck alone. Allah says in the Holy Quran that there is no compulsion in religion. The worse conditions are in countries with people calling themselves “Muslims”. Did you read about what happened to the Muslim Sister in Afghanistan? How horrid…

    http://wapo.st/1MZSvRa

  • White Muslim from Europe

    May 8, 2015

    Dear all, thank you very much for your responses. I hope that ummof4 and other women with similar blaming-woman-atittude will learn one day that men also have responsibility when they enter into sexual relationships!! We are equaly responsible for making the child.
    He is the one who has married another woman during my pregnancy and I cannot imagine anything worse you can do to a women!
    Somehow he can justify this in his mind (probably encouraged by his family)saying to me that he is allowed to get married with another woman and that he has not done anything illegal!
    Such morals are not ok in my book, which is why I have decided to stop all comunnication with him.
    I know that this will be hard but I have decided that my daughter should not be introduced to this primitive culture.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2015

    White Muslim from Europe,

    Hi I am Gail and I married to a Pakistani man for the past 12 yrs.I wish I could tell u something positive to give u hope but the reality is from what I read he tried to trap u.At least in your case he did not use u for Immigration so that is a plus! In my case my husband did use me for immigration so he did divorce his first wife to marry me.When we met he told me he was divorced and I took his word for it as I have never come across anything so strange as to think a human would use another for their own personal gain.Well Live and learn as I say.
    I will be honest with u I would not go telling anyone about this unless u want it to hang over your head like a dark cloud for the rest of your life since u have a child to think of.
    Never think he was unaware of his marriage in Pakistan he is lying straight up to u and u make him acknowledge the truth in all things is my advise to u so u can here it straight out of his own mouth.So u never feel double minded on anything.
    He did not marry u legally because he has plans to immigrate his Pakistani wife and if he was legally married to u well he could not understand?So he conned you and played with your emotions and your life and if u want to get him back I would not blame u.
    U could demand him marry u in your country then but his A$$.All u have to do is play stupid and make him marry u then after u marry u send in all documents to immigration to bust him.It would deserve him right after he did this with u.
    You really do have 2 choices here in my opinion since u don’t want anythign to do with Polygamy.
    1. u can walk away
    2. u can make him marry u and by doing that u have stopped him from immigrating his Pakistani wife.Unless he is smarter than u and has already started her immigration.
    I am personally a pretty vengeful person to be honest if I am done wrong so I would hold the baby over his head and demand he marry me legally ASAP.Before u marry him though or even talk all that u tell him straight u want to see his marriage document and pics of his wedding.U copy and print all that stuff and u put it somewhere safe where he can not get to it and then u demand he marry u legally in your country or F@ck off.Play hard ball with him u have the baby as leverage.If he refuses to do it then it means he knows immigration law enough to know he will screw his pakistani wife’s chances of immigrating.Play him right back and just see how smart he is.
    If he is a Doctor in your country I would never in a million yrs let this slide.I would bust him so good.
    U can marry him and stop his paki wife from immigrating and at anytime u can scream he has 2 marriages you will always have the upper hand understand.Do not let this piss ant make a fool of u is my advise bust him very well.

  • ummof4

    May 5, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    My dear White Muslim from Europe. My first bit of advice is to repent to Allah for having sex outside of marriage. The most important thing in your life is preparing for the next life. Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful. A part of repenting is to not repeat the sin that one is repenting from. With that said, please do not have sex again without being married.
    You know that the father of your child is a liar. So you have to figure out if you want to stay with him or not. If you decide to stay, you must insist that he marry you. If you decide to leave him alone and carry on with your life without him, ask Allah to send you a Muslim man who sincerely wants to earn the blessings of Allah.
    Take care of yourself and your baby. You may see yourself as a modern, not religious Muslim, but I urge you not to put those labels on yourself. Instead, call yourself a Muslim who is willing to study and find out how to become a true believer, a Mu’minah. Then begin the process of purifying your heart and soul so the real Islam can make its way into you.
    You will find love here, so stay with us for a while.
    Everyone remember, love and obey Allah more than you love and obey yourself.

  • anabellah

    May 5, 2015

    @White Muslim from Europe,

    I know it’s not easy to understand the cultural practice in parts of Pakistan (men marry whom their parents tell them to). It took me the longest time to get an understanding. I kept trying to understand it from an religious perspective. Finally, after listening to Gail, a commentator here and to another commentator who was here, I began to grasp what was going on. It wasn’t religion at all. It was cultural. It’s why when these men say they just happened to go home to Pakistan; they were made to wed, and had no clue whatsoever what they was set up for, they are straight up, flat out liars. They knew this was the life planned out for them long ago and that their cultural practice is to obey their parents at all cost. Their parents control their lives.

    The sad part is they know what is planned for them and they are willing and ready to acquiesce. Still they get involved with other females, and never let the other females know the truth of the matter. The women whom they hook up with become victims of the men lies and failure to be truthful. and forthcoming.

    Thank you much for sharing your story. It’s important for women to know what these men do is the norm for them. The more women who are aware of what occur the better. The person whom you are dealing with is modern. It’s just not our way. It’s modern and it’s the norm for quite a good number of people in Pakistan. Do you know whether he is married to his Pakistani cousin? It’s usually how it works. He wasn’t lying that divorce is not acceptable in Pakistan. So, if he cares about and loves his wife, he most likely won’t divorce her. I’m glad to hear you are taking good care of yourself and your baby. It is paramount.

  • White Muslim from Europe

    May 5, 2015

    Dear anabellah and Laila
    Thank you for your kind words. It really helps to talk about this and hear other peoples opinion. I am not yet ready to face my family and friends with this knowledge and i honestly feel ashamed to be part of this. We are in 21st century and this should not be happening!

    At the moment my pregnancy is top priority and I am trying to calm myself.I am thinking about not seing him until the birth and will take decision at that time whether I want to include him in my child’s life. It will be very hard.
    I am now convinced that his marriage is arranged and that he knew all about it, so he is a liar.
    I am not interested in being his wife under these conditions and polygami is out of question! I am independent and finacialy in a better position then him and can easily exclude him if I decide to do so. He knows this very well, which is why he is afraid that I will not let him see the child.

    I have written this also in hope that other women will learn from my case. He is 39 years old and has a phd degree, so this cultural anomaly is not only with Pakistani men who are uneducated or come from small villages. However I am still and will remain for a long time to be schoked about all of this! Cannot understand at all that I beleived him to be ‘modern’ and rational.

  • anabellah

    May 4, 2015

    @White muslim from Europe,

    As Laila stated you need to try to be as calm as possible in consideration of your health and that of your baby. I’m sure it helps to speak with people about it who could be objective. We try to help one another as best we can here.

    You’re in a very difficult situation in that you cannot easily walk away from the relationship as you have a child to consider as well as yourself. Based on reading the main post/thread you should know by now it is not uncommon for arranged marriages to occur in Pakistan in 2015. It’s not uncommon for Pakistani men to play dumb, acting as though they didn’t know their parents had planned their marriage. They new. It’s a cultural norm there for many.

    Well, anyhow, the truth is out there. He is legally married. So, you could marry him without being legal or do as you said, not see him anymore and refuse to let him see the baby. I would not encourage any woman to not let the father of the child be a part of the child’s life.

    I’d say marry him or not be in a relationship with him. He would be committing adultery if he has an intimate relationship with you without being married to you. I know you said you and he aren’t religious. Still, I wouldn’t tell anyone to commit adultery whether they are religious or not.

    He wants you as a wife, so he could introduce you respectfully to people, as his wife . I think it’s the best way to proceed, if you will continue to be in a relationship with him. Other than it, you could have your child, leave him and move on with your life with just you and your child. Only you know what you’re inclined to do.

    As to what to say to your family and everyone who has met him, I say tell the truth. Nothing works better than truth. If they dislike him, so be it. What can you do?

    I totally understand your anger about the situation. The damage has already been done. You have to find a way to forgive, and begin a new life with him as his wife, or begin a new life without him with your child and go on your merry way. It’s the best advice I could give you at the moment.

  • Laila

    May 4, 2015

    Dear White Muslim From Europe. Please be calm and positive for the sake of your baby. How you react and behave now will have an impact on your pregnancy. My heart goes out to you in this situation. But if he does not decide to leave his wife, what will your decision be? Can you work out a situation where all can co-exist in peace? She probably has no clue about you. I too do not fall for the excuse of did not know about his marriage being planned and he was caught off guard. All I can say is trusting him right now is not a right move. Be alert and see what else unfolds. Are you really ready to marry him?

  • White muslim from Europe

    May 4, 2015

    I should have read the above text earier!
    I am just experiencing being deceived and betrayed by a highly educated ‘modern’ Pakistani man who got married with a Pakistani woman while being in a relationship with me and currently pregnant in 7th month.
    I am also a Muslim from Bosnia and he proposed that we get married in a religious way, which I accepted even though I am not religious. We do not leave together.
    He pretends to be very modern and not religious, but he wanted us to get married so that he could tell his family about me and the baby. I never met any of his family members as he lives alone in Denmark and they live in London and Pakistan.
    He is rejecting that the marriage with Pakistan is arranged by his mother and already planned before his arrival. I beleive that he is saying this only because he is ashamed and that I might tell his European friends about this.

    The worst part is that he just told me 3 days ago – he got married in February! I am in shock as I would never think that he is one of those primitive types that marries someone because his family desires so.

    He claims that he loves me, but that he cannot leave his Pakistani bride even though he says he has regretted his marriage with her immediately after and that he should have never visited Pakistan. I do not beleive anything he says.

    She will come to visit him in Denmark in August and I have told him that I do not want to do anything with him if he stays married. He told me that if he leaves her now her life will be destroyed and that she will never be able to get married with anyone else so he must continue to be married with her!

    It hurts a lot as I love him very much and before he left for Pakistan to visit his family we had made plans for our future life together with the baby girl. While visiting he sent me love messages and I never doubted that he is committed to me and our life together. After returning he started behaving a bit differently and just now after 3 months he told me about his marriage!!

    I honestly do not know what to do – and the worst part is that I am giving birth in July. I am very angry and want to tell him that he will never see the child or me any longer!
    I do not know what to say to my family who all met him.
    Please advise.

  • Aysha

    April 29, 2015

    Thanks for your comments. It makes me stronger reading them. It’s strange how a man like that manages to make you doubt yourself. I definitely don’t want to be a secret wife and that’s exactly what I would be.
    You all make me see that I have made the right decision!!

  • Gail

    April 29, 2015

    Aysha,
    Just keep your facts straight and u will be fine and remember that a man who cheats on his wife with another woman will for sure cheat on you eventually.I am sure u know that deep inside.Unless u r willing to practice polygamy and are willing to accept that there is a very good chance he may take more wifes or cheat in the future because obviously he has no real moral compass.I personally think he is a Jerk from all that u have said and I would leave that dude where he sits since u r not married with him.Hopefully u will do the right thing and move on.I see more as as cheater than a Polygamous man.Hugs…

  • anabellah

    April 29, 2015

    @Aysha,

    I’m glad you’ve got a good support system in your friends. You’ll be alright. You see in that you ending the relationship, it didn’t make him say that he’d leave her and only be with you. From what I have read on the blog, the Pakistani men rarely divorce the wives, as most men don’t divorce wives they married first when they take mistresses or additional wives.

    In your case, it’s not so much that he would be polygamous; it’s the lies. He’s allowed to be polygamous,so why lie, sneak and cheat. If a man can’t handle a polygamous marriage, he doesn’t need to mess around with other women. The lies are uncalled for. You know his disposition. I don’t see how you could find any happiness in a situation based on lies and deceit, not knowing whether what comes out of his mouth is truth or lie. If you were to stay with him, he very well may make you a secret wife. Who wants that? I’m sure you don’t want to live like that. Thank Allah much that he revealed the truth to you before you got in way deep with what seems no way out.

  • Aysha

    April 29, 2015

    @anabellah

    Thanks for your words of encouragement.
    It is taking a lot of strength to get through it and my heart and mind tell me different things. By telling close friends about the situation I find it easier not to give in to his questions to take him back. As soon as he contacts me I get in touch with someone to talk to them about the situation. They tell me not to fall for it again.
    I am at a point now where I do see things clearer and feel more empowered to say NO! The moment that really opened my eyes was that even when I tell him it’s over he still didn’t choose me. So I can’t be that important to him. Anyway… Onwards and upwards. I will find an honest man one day!

  • anabellah

    April 28, 2015

    @Aysha,

    I finally got a free moment to chat with you. I’ve been soooo busy with doing many things at once. Sigh. I’m finally getting things squared away so I could chill a bit.

    You’ve been through a lot with your Pakistan boyfriend. I think you are wise in ending the relationship although you still love him. He tells you that he will leave his wife. Married men usually don’t leave. Some do, but on a whole many don’t.

    I’m sure you could do way better than being with him. You read the thread and the posts of some people who have been there and done that with what you were dealing with. You said he lies and thinks nothing of it. He probably doesn’t think anything of it. It’s probably just a part of who he is. Just imagine spending your life with a man such as him.

    Make your intention to keep moving forward without him. It doesn’t seem like it now, but in time you probably won’t care as much about him after you meet someone else. As you stated your love for him will lessen in time. Try not to think of him. When a thought of him enters your mind, change channels.

    I’d advise you to think twice before hooking up again with a foreigner. Sometimes the cultural differences are just too vast to overcome. It’s difficult enough at times for people just dealing with their own kind.

    Don’t let him sweet talk you back into a relationship. Be strong…

  • Aysha

    April 27, 2015

    I’ve just been reading the below messages and find so much in common with my situation. I met my Pakistani boyfriend about a year ago and from day one he has been honest about his situation in Pakistan, well honest… I guess he told the story in a way I would understand. End of last year he had to go to Pakistan for a month to spend time with his kids. No problem as far as I was concerned. A few weeks after he left I received an email from his wife in the UK. I was in total shock. Didn’t know there was a wife there and she was furious with me. After exchanging a few emails with her she realised that I too was lied to by him.
    He promised me love, happiness, honesty and respect.. yeah right!
    Anyway, I confronted him and he started telling lie after lie. Even when I caught him out on many lies he would still keep lying. And until this day he keeps lying and tells me he loves me and wants to marry me, yet he can never make the time to come over to see me. He tells me he is in the middle of divorcing his UK wife but I have given up on believing him.
    It took a lot of time before I was able to let him go and still I do have feelings for him but I know I deserve more. I deserve someone who is there for me and really wants to be with me. Not someone who lies his way through life and doesn’t show any respect in doing so.
    For some reason he doesn’t see this lying as a problem. He tells me it is to protect me and tells me that by the end of this year he will have sorted out everything and will be with me. But I have told him it’s over. I have to move on instead of wasting my life waiting for someone that obviously doesn’t care if he hurts my feelings.
    What I do keep asking myself is why I have been willing for over 6 months to try to justify his lies. I guess I just loved him too much. Still do, but that will get less everyday…

  • anabellah

    April 5, 2015

    @diketso, Hello there. Welcome!

    I’m so sorry you had such a terrible experience with a Pakistani man. Thank our Creator for removing you from such an abusive relationship. What a blessing that you are out of it. When a man threatens to kill a woman, she better not take it lightly. There are a lot of whack jobs out there. Sounds you got a hold of one. Hopefully the next relationship you enter will be much better than this last one. Keep it moving, and whatever you do, don’t reconcile with that guy. He sounds to be a real Loser sign LOSER

    If you don’t mind me asking, how did you meet him? If you feel like talking about the situation, please feel free to do so. Sometimes talking about it helps. It could help you clear your mind, as well, so you could see things better. We’re here if you want to chat with us.

  • diketso

    April 5, 2015

    Pakistan men are abusive I’m a south African 22 yes old girl I m in love with 24 Pakistan men he beat me everyday even if he say I miss you when I cm he beat shout and call me with different names i try to liv that men but he tell me he will kill me if I liv h but today I’m glad that is over between me and thth pkpkpk

  • anabellah

    April 3, 2015

    @Maria, Hello and welcome to the 411

    Thank you very much for taking time to explain in detail about “villagers of subcontinents”. I’m most appreciative. I found all that you wrote very interesting and enlightening. It’s the first time we’ve had it broken down the way that you did. I totally understand what you have written here and have no doubt that what you said is factual. If there is anything you’d like to add that you think we should know, please feel free to write on. You’ve got my ears. I’m ready to listen. Thank you much, again. :-)

  • Maria

    April 3, 2015

    Some part of your Details are true. Just like they came to the USA or UK because of a better life. Not only Pakistanis but also Indians, Afghans, Bangladeshis. They are Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims. In fact residences of Subcontinent create such issues. Now I tell you why!

    One of the biggest reason is that 99.99% Villagers of subcontinent are poor and illiterate. 15 $ cost a TV and 2$ costs a TV cable monthly. Villagers watch 24/7 on TV different dramas, films and wish to have the same things in their lives, shown on the TV. i.e a Car, a Villa, a better life etc. They dam care how, they can do all illegals activities and can cross all the boundaries, just because of their Dreams to become Rich and famous. Most of them are the members of Political parties.

    They migrate from different villages to these mega cities in search for a Job or a better life, even here in Subcontinent. All big cities are full of such villagers. We are facing these problems here daily and you are crying there :)

    They are uneducated, even they don’t know how to sit, talk, eat, behaves etc etc. But they are quick learners. They watch you and than learn from you. Later on in front of everyone they will correct you ;)

    They are strongly connected to their culture and have a very strong family system. Wearing Jeans or t-shirt doesn’t mean that this person is educated. They lie and pretend to be educated, but they are not. They have already married in city and ruined many educated women lives. Its their business one Marriage in city at the same time other in Villages. Who knows, how many time an uneducated married in his life? Religion is only Namastay, Aslam o Alaikum thats it, besides these words no part of religion you will find in their life.

    Just read any newspaper, daily, villager Romeos kill villager Juliets or vice verse here in Subcontinent. We protest against their crimes, but no one care about us. They take us as not more than barking dogs that’s it. Most Parliamentarians are uneducated, involved in bunch of illegals activities, supports these villagers, because of their Vote banks.

    We, Educated residence of Subcontinent are in Minority my DEAR :)

    I am giving you an example: The city in which I am living has approx 80% residences, that came from different villages. We, people living in cities are fed up of these villagers and just imagine if they got a chance to go to the USA or UK, how would they behave!

    How they get a chance to visit the USA or UK. Simple! they sale the piece of land, which belong to them and pay an Agent some 5000$ 10000$. This Agent arrange for him everything, and finally they reach the USA or Europe.

    All the five fingers are not equal. Therefore we all are different. Hardly 5% people from subcontinent can understand this problem, whereas 95% not.

    Ask them to drink Alcohol, they will drink BECAUSE THEY LOVE YOU :) Ask them eat pork they will eat BECAUSE THEY LOVE YOU. ) Ask them sleep with me before marriage, they will sleep with you BECAUSE THEY LOVE YOU…
    :)

    There is no need to trust me, just marry an uneducated (pretending to be educated) from Subcontinent, than go to any part of subcontinent and experience yourself. Someday you will understand what I have written here :)

  • anabellah

    March 8, 2015

    @Mari2,

    Thank you for explaining what “Wedding Dancers” are. What came to mind was dancers I saw on a TV documentary about Afghanistan that showed men all dancing together while the women sat together on the floor talking and watching. It was appalling to me to see men up there gyrating with one another as thought they were going to have orgasms.

    The “Wedding Dancers” in Pakistan don’t surprise me. There is not much Islam there from what I’ve learned. They only have Hislam (his Islam)http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif It’s good M was repulsed by it. I’m surprised he didn’t barf.

  • Mari2

    March 8, 2015

    Well M and I have been communicating regularly. Keeping things light, and only discussing our day to day issues has been good. The only thing that M had to say about his walima was how upset he was that wedding dancers were hired. M has never liked/approved of the odd custom of wedding dancers in his country and he certainly did not expect they would arrive on the 2nd day of his wedding. The whole arrival of them made him rather peeved. Did he send them away? No. He just “hid in a corner” and awaited the end of the ordeal. But during conversation with him, I could hear his annoyance.
    BTW…wedding dancers in his country/area (KPK) are men who dress as women and dance in front of other men provocatively for money. They are men who pretend to be women.

  • Mari2

    March 6, 2015

    Well today (yesterday there) was day 1 of his two day wedding extravaganza. I thought I would be more upset or something, but I am oddly calm about the whole thing. Perhaps because I’ve known of this impending marriage for so long, the actual event happening turned out to be rather anti-climatic for me. I’ve been praying hard to Allah to please grant me peace of mind and patience. And during our text conversations, M and I have focused on discussing the quran, so that has apparently helped my mind be at peace. As far as what the future holds for either him or me, only Allah knows. Perhaps they will push for a divorce. Perhaps he will accommodate their wishes. I do not know. I only know that the only one worthy of my attention during this test is Allah. And the only one who brings me peace is Him. All this stuff…family drama and contrived manipulations of others belong solely to humans, and I woke this morning with a clear head and a desire to just quit trying to second guess things. I’ll just put it all to Allah and let Him sort it out.

  • anabellah

    March 4, 2015

    Mari2,

    Gail would know better than I. I think, though, they would want you out of the picture because of the embarrassment associated with polygamy. According to Gail, Pakistanis abhor polygamy. They don’t accept it at all. Another reason they’d want you gone is so they could take all the money your husband makes, and not have to share any of it with you. From what I’ve learned here, they want to keep it all in the family. If you’re out of the picture, all the money is theirs.

    I have no doubt you could stay in the picture, and take very good care of yourself. After a while, you may feel resentment towards him, as he’s throwing all his money at them and you see none or very little coming your way. You may be okay with it for a while, but I’m sure it will get old quickly.

    I agree with Gail that M probably loves you without a doubt. He knows how valuable you are to him. You give him the encouragement and strength he needs to keep going, and probably a sense of security knowing you are there for him. He surely will feel alone without you. He’ll experience a sense of loss.

    Nonetheless, his family and her’s will be all over him like a cheap suit, trying to milk him for everything he’s got. It’s the nature of the beast there. You’re a better person than I am. I don’t mind helping out one bit. I’m all about sharing and being charitable, but I’ve got to get what I’m entitled to, as well. Bull friggin crap, I’d take the backseat for some selfish ingrates.

  • Mari2

    March 4, 2015

    @Ana and Gail,
    I understand exactly what you have to say, and I agree. I will not communicate with anyone is in his family. Not his sister, not his brother, not cousin brother…no one. And wow Gail, here I was looking at cousin girl as a victim as the mother I am. But youre right. Once she knows of me, I will be a rival in her mind though not in reality. But only thru her mother and his. But the thing is, M and I have only a religious marriage. I’ve left the legal marriage issue wide open for her because I have no desire to ever be married legally again. So why divorce me? I am protected financially. So if he does divorce me then he can just go. Emotionally for me it will be a hard thing. But financially, he, his mother, and new wife will be forced to rent a room somewhere in a basement in order to live here (if he could afford to even bring them) . He doesn’t even have medical insurance. Without me he doesn’t even have a car. They all gain nothing by his divorce of me. Absolutely nothing. So if he divorces me, they languish in Pakistan forever, always waiting for a handout.

  • anabellah

    March 3, 2015

    @Mari2,

    I agree with what Gail said. The cousin and her brother mean you no good. They’ve got each other’s backs. Blood is thicker than water. They keep it all in the family. They care nothing about you. Don’t fall to sleep on them. Seek Allah’s protection!!!

  • gail

    March 3, 2015

    Mari2,
    I wanted to chime in and tell u not to bother to feel to sorry for the girl she is a product of her environment.She is a puppet for her family nothing more nothing less and when she finds out u exist then u will in her mind be her rival and enemy.
    Pakistani woman as a whole do not and I mean do not accept polygamy so you r wasting your time in feeling sorry for someone who would wish your divorce and u out of the picture understand.
    I would suggest u not to talk to her brother he only means evil against u sorry to say.He is fishing for any info he can find out and he is doing this because his mother has put him up to it understand?Watch your back I am being serious.Don’t let any of them near u.I am sorry if I come across as harsh but unless u want to be poisoned or worse do not trust or let them near u is my sincere advice.

  • anabellah

    March 1, 2015

    @Didii, Wa Alaikum As Salaam http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    You are certainly welcome here and I am so happy to welcome you. I look forward to hearing from you when you get the opportunity to stop back in and chat with us. Much salaam

  • Didii

    March 1, 2015

    Hi All,Assalamualaikum

    Just join this group. It’s nice to see all comment, will post my comment later.

    Thank you Ana for accepting me in this group.

    Salam

  • anabellah

    February 28, 2015

    Mari2,

    The thing is, if you remain in the marriage with your husband, you’re going to have to accept that it’s the way they live and it will be a part of your life, despite how much you protest about it. Your husband has shown you that he will let his mother rule his life and, in essence, she rules you, indirectly. Insha Allah, one day your husband will see the light, but in all likelihood it won’t happen until he make Allah his lord and not his parents.

    There is nothing wrong with helping one another. It’s what we are supposed to do. We’re to be charitable and take care of one another. We’re, however, not supposed to step on people and use people to get what we want. To do so means a person doesn’t put their faith and trust in Allah, but rely on themselves to get what they want and need. We’re supposed to circulate wealth, but they want to hoard it all up amongst themselves. I guess marrying cousins keep it all in the family. Where’s the benefit??? The country is still impoverished and undeveloped. For a country made up of predominately Muslims, why aren’t they prospering. Allah tells us what we must do to prosper. The masses there must not be doing it.

    I don’t know how you’re going to be content dealing with what you’re in the midst of. I believe as Gail said, this is just the beginning of the nightmare for you. Brace yourself because you’re in for a heck of a ride.

  • anabellah

    February 28, 2015

    @Mari2,

    It’s enlightening to read what you detail about how life is for many people in Pakistan. There is no changing a country of people steep in culture and tradition. Allah says He won’t change the condition of a people until they change what is in their hearts. I have seen from day one of writing on the blog that adult children in Pakistan worship their parents. The people in Pakistan have twisted what is said in the Quran about being kind and obedient to parents and not disrespectful to them to mean that even the adult child must do everything the parents say. It’s been said the parents pimp the children out so the children could take care of everyone in the family. I now understand and believe it. They fail to realize that Allah provides. If they did their part and put Allah first, they would flourish and prosper without having to resort to using other people or being subservient to other. Our lives belong to Allah. The male children sell their souls, and venture off to use foreign women for personal gain. It’s all about using people to get what they want by any means necessary.

  • Mari2

    February 28, 2015

    And the worst thing is, is that I brought up M’s cousin saima as a perfect wife for him and a good sister wife for me. Even M agreed with my choice. How did cousin girl’s bro describe her? “She’s a slut and a whore and illiterate.” Apparently, she’s a slut because she broke off an arranged marriage she wasn’t happy with and protected herself. Sorry she is illiterate but widows whose brothers wont help…just saying cousin boy. Go talk to daddy.

  • Mari2

    February 28, 2015

    Bro of cousin girl really is a prick. He loves to regale me with the innocence of his sister, and my apparent western slutines(divorce though M is divorced as well). I did point out to him that after 2 pokes her innocence is gone. Then what? Now her innocence is gone! Innocence does not put a roof over one’s head. Nor does it pay for anything. I told him that. I even pointed out that his sister was not one which could inherit anything in Pakistan with four brothers and an unemployed father. Poor girl. I feel for her to a point. To a point. I feel for the girl, but I will always call her mother on turning her out for greed. Yet her family will only get crumbs here. There are no roads paved with gold. Just “sluts” with jobs the likes of which the men there would covet.

  • Mari2

    February 28, 2015

    Gail is right in a way. Why not recycle me? LOL. That would never happen as far as I am concerned, though I would not be the least bit surprised if such a notion was batted around by the erstwhile bored and discontented masses known as “chachis”. MASHALLAH M made it home safe and sound to his village. He texts me when he can get some privacy. Our last conversation he brought up the fact that there was so much sickness. I asked what kind of sickness. He responded that so many aunties had their panties in a bunch because their sons had the unmitigated audacity to marry and move with their wives into places where they could live independently. Apparently, this “abandonment” of parents by their sons is causing much “heart attacks” and “sickness” to the parents. According to M he is being regaled quite nicely (thanks to MIL I’m sure)with numerous stories of “children” (men in their mid 20’s) who “won’t listen to their parents” and “choose their wives”. Subsequently, maybe due to some genetic deficiencies in Pakistani mothers this strike for independence among their sons is a leading cause of “sickness”. Funny thing is, that issue with independence of children rarely causes sickness in the West. Maybe the resilience women here have to that issue must be tied into our polio vaccines.

    I just said wow that’s sad if sons really do abandon parents and leave them destitute, but what son wants to be in his 20’s, earning money and still having to listen to his parents order him around like he was a child? When the son becomes the caretaker, and especially if the wife brings in money too, the roles must reverse. If not, the son has no choice but to leave.

  • anabellah

    February 27, 2015

    Gail

    That is grotesque. M may divorce Mari2 and cousin’s brother try 2 get with Mari2. YUCK! But, it sounds about right, unfortunately. It could be the reason he’s sniffing around, creeping Mari2.

    @Mari2

    Be on high alert!

  • Gail

    February 27, 2015

    Mari2,
    I feel for u girl! I wish I could say things will get better but lets face it this is just the start of the nightmare to come with these people.For all u know that idiot cowifes brother of yours might be thinking M is going to divorce u and he will try to get with u.Hand u around like a piece of meat so to speak.Those people r strange that way.

  • anabellah

    February 26, 2015

    Oh, Mari2, I meant to say, I don’t blame you one iota for not wanting to go to live in Pakistan. I’m sure if you moved there it would feel as though you were going backwards and not forward in life. Why give up the standard of living and safety that you have grown accustomed to? As you stated, you’d be working only to support his family.

  • anabellah

    February 26, 2015

    @Mari2,

    You did good by not freaking out on the cousin’s brother when he pretended not to know when M would be arriving in Pakistan. M is the groom; therefore, I’m sure the immediate family knows when M is due to arrive. The brother of the cousin had a lot of audacity to contact you to get the scoop or to feel you out about how you’re doing. You control your temper way better than me. It’s something I need Allah to help me with.

    I have no time game playing. Furthermore, I have no sympathy for Pakistani men who go to works their buttocks off in foreign countries trying to provide for ungrateful, demanding, greedy family members back home. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? I pray Allah rewards you for your patience and tolerance. I need some of yours.

  • Mari2

    February 26, 2015

    @Ana,
    He and I do talk about running away to somewhere else. I’ve traveled the world and he has yet to see it. Never once has he seen the ocean, never once has he been to the movie theater, never once has he been to NYC, the land of my birth. He’s missing out on so much of life that I would love to show him. Europe too. Puerto Rico, the Jersey Shore, Ireland….so much of the world to see! I would happily take him. But no, those things cannot happen for him because he must work 17 hours a day every day of the week to provide for a family that is completely ungrateful. Now that he must marry his cousin and pour money into that. Another excuse to miss out on life. He always has an excuse as to why he cannot afford to go anywhere (work,work,work, etc). Even if I offer to pay for the trip, he won’t give up the paid days at work. His mommy and siblings and soon to be wife and family need the money.

  • anabellah

    February 26, 2015

    @Mari2,

    I didn’t explain myself well in the last post to you. I was trying to add some humor and say he needs to run away to someplace other than Pakistan and you go with him or join him later. Just run and disappear together. How sweet it would be. Happy Day Dreaming

    I’ll be back to read the rest of your post. I was only able to read the first line, but, Insha Allah, I’ll be back. I was thinking of you, as I know you said he’d leave today or tomorrow. I was concerned about you. We are here for you Mari2. Lotz of {{{hugs}}}

  • Mari2

    February 26, 2015

    Thanks Ana, but no, I have no desire to join him in his country. He’s suggested numerous times that I could leave my life here and go there. Perhaps I could find work as a teacher there for a pittance as to what I make here, but why? While Pakistan has many things that are nice, I’m not about to go there and be expected to earn money to support his family, lose my rights as a woman, lose my freedom of movement, live in a communal back-biting type of situation, lose my access to adequate medical care, and be otherwise constrained by the whims of his family/mom. I love M very much, but I love the life and freedom I have to speak my mind here and further my desire for knowledge here. There is no need for me to go there. Perhaps Allah will wish M to remain there, only HE knows. And if/when that happens, then I will seek Allah’s strength to guide me through the situation.

    The brother of cousin girl contacted me today via social network. Haven’t heard from him in months. He’s the one who threatened me with the whole pashto tribal nonsense. So today he suddenly wants to know how my life is going. Told him my life was great (which it is really notwithstanding the cousin marriage thing). But he kept poking at me, asking if anything was new (this is a guy who loves to argue with a woman.. go figure). He just kept poking, telling me to change the subject, UNTIL finally I brought up M. And he’s all like “M is coming? When?” Like he doesn’t know. At that point I told him I was too busy to talk because I needed to buy decor for the home with the four thousand dollars M allotted to me as his first wife. May Allah forgive me for being such a petty and vindictive liar.

  • anabellah

    February 24, 2015

    @Mari2,

    Listen and listen closely. Tell him to pack his bags (essentials),and get the heck out of Dodge – run, disappear and don’t look back. If you’ve got enough money, go with him now. If not, send him on his way, save up and join him later. It’s now or never…I have a feeling it will be never :-(

    I feel you, but I can’t reach you. You are one strong, beautiful lady, Mari2

  • Mari2

    February 23, 2015

    Well just a day and a half until M returns to Pakistan for his wedding with his cousin, and he’s NOT a happy camper. More demands for money this month for clothes from his mom (wth? how many clothes can you need?), constant phone calls from friends and relatives with desires for for cell phones, candy, toys for their children. Then the phalanx of peeps here who are dropping off items for him to drag back for their relatives too…soap, shampoo, etc. It’s crazy. I suggested to him that I could duct tape chocolate bars to his body drug-mule style. I also suggested that he wear all of his clothes in layers since there will be NO room for them due to the high demand for more…more cell phones, more toys, more shoes. M.is not very happy to return. He’s highly stressed about being not “good” enough in the gift department, stressed about the flight, stressed about the whole marriage to a girl he doesn’t know, stressed about more money that the family will need once the marriage takes place, stressed about doing his mother’s bidding even when he doesn’t want to (ie sponsoring a visitor visa for elder sis with rich husband), and stressed about a month or more loss of pay. So, while I’m trying to do my best to be supportive of him, I still want to smack some “never worked a day in my life mamas”. Just sayin’

  • Gail

    February 10, 2015

    Confused2ndwife,

    If your husband is Pakistani it makes perfect sense how he is acting with u.
    Look cupcake he married u without telling u he was already married correct?That shows he has no honesty in him which is a normal Pakistani Male attitude(no surprise there) If his wife and parents came to know they will put all force on him to divorce u.
    Bottom line u are going to have ask your hubby straight if he is going to tell his family about u YES or NO then u go from there.I would advice u not to live as a secret wife straight up because u will end up investing years and never knowing if u r going to be kicked off and divorced if this issue comes to light.It is not the way to live esp with a Pakistani man in my opinion.U must look out for your own self in this situation.If it were me I would flat tell him when u r going to meet your inlaws and cowife.DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT let him play u for a fool.
    If his 1st wife is his cousin u can multiply the DO NOT let him play u for a fool times 100 understand.Honesty is always the best policy.Don’t expect they will embrace u it is not likely to happen from my knowledge but it would be u doing the right thing and seeing if they r going to force him to divorce u instead of waiting it out for several years.Do not let him have control to keep u a secret wife is my sincere advice to u.You would be cutting your own throat for no reason.

  • Gail

    February 10, 2015

    Ana,
    Honestly logically speaking for families with children esp young children in my opinion it is much better if hubby/dad is in the home daily.The children can be raised in the same home with the same morals and the wives can help each other.Is it hard yeah of course but it is not harder than having to be on a rotating schedule I can assure u and their is alot more flexibility when everyone is living in the same home.Like for instance Sex if one wife is on her menstrual cycle then the husband can sleep with the other wife for those days without the other wife feeling abandoned and vice versa because both wives see their husband every day.
    If somehow the wives can be mentally strong and put aside their jealousy then it can work beautifully.Like everything there is always going to be arguments and jealousy but honestly but the benefit of knowing on a daily bases u r doing your best and seeing the larger picture is priceless in my opinion.Not only do the children benefit but so do the wives and husband it is total win win BUT everyone involved has to be committed to the family unit and place it above all else in order for it to be a success in my opinion.I will say woman going into Polygamy think sharing their husband sexually is going to be the hardest thing it’s not it is the raising of the children and dealing with all the little daily things that mothers have to deal with is the hardest thing when u have two woman living under the same roof trying to parent the same children.The easy way to deal that is assign one mother in charge dealing the kids and if something comes up that needs punished then all parents get involved.In my case I was dealing the kids and my cowife was wanting to take them places and do things and I did not agree and I got fighting mad when she tried to disturb me with the kids.I couldn’t handle not being in control when it came to the kids.I admit I was wrong and I do see my error in the way I did things looking back.I wish I had not been so hard that time with her when it came to the kids.

  • anabellah

    February 8, 2015

    confused2ndwife, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Welcome to our home. I’m glad you have found us and we will try to help you as best we can. We have a person whom I consider a Pakistani expert “Gail” who is here. Gail may be able to help you more than I can. I’m assuming the man you are married to is Pakistani, as you’ve written on this Pakistani thread/post. My guess is your husband’s other wife is Pakistani and possibly his first cousin, as well.

    If your husband is Pakistani and married to his cousin, you most likely could count on remaining a secret unless you, yourself, spill the beans to his other wife and families. You are not unique in what you are going through. Many Pakistani men have an agenda. Is he a citizen?

    It could be that he moved his family to the state in which you live so that he could easily SNEAK off and see you on a regular. I don’t think he has any intention of introducing you to his parents or family as they will insist that he divorces you, based on what I’ve learned from “Gail.”

    I totally understand how you don’t want to be a secret. No woman wants to be a secret. Polygamy is allowed in Islam. There is no need or reason for a secret wife. The marriage is supposed to be recognized as just that – a marriage – not a dirty little secret, affair, with the woman having the status of a mistress.

    What can you do? Well, it’s not easy to do what needs to be done. You are emotionally invested in him. You married him. I don’t doubt he loves you and his other family, as well. Will he be willing to go against the grain and turn his back on his family – CULTURE??? and live polygamy as it’s meant to be lived. If not, you will either need to divorce him or remain his secret wife.

    You said you will convert to Islam. Ask yourself, if your husband divorced you tomorrow and you felt and believed it was permanent, would you still convert? I only ask because some women convert to Islam to level the playing field with the Muslim wife or to try to gain more of their husband’s love. Usually when the husband exists no more – divorce – the woman divorces Islam, as well. She leaves Islam. There are serious consequences for doing such a thing. The question is for you. You don’t need to answer it here on the blog.

    If you have any additional questions, we are here for you.

  • confused2ndwife

    February 8, 2015

    Assalamu Alaikum, I have been on the internet for hours trying to come across something that will give me an answer to my thoughts/questions. I have recently married a man who is muslim, he is also married to another women, who he has children with. I myself have decided to convert to Islam. I hope this gives you a general idea of where I am coming from.
    So me and my husband met in September, 2014. When we had met his family had not lived with him they lived in another state, why? I have no idea! So he and I decided to get married only a month after knowing each other, which i thought was incredibly soon but it feels or felt like true love so I did it. Only a week after us being married he decided to have his family move back here with him. We do not live together we have nothing together… It makes it so hard. He has so much with his other wife, they have their family and his wife’s family and his family. A few days ago he and I were talking and I decided to mention something about me meeting his parents… I had no idea when I met him and knew that he was looking for a polygyny marriage that, that meant that I would be a secret. I don’t know what to do. I love him so much and I believe he loves me also… Maybe just not as much as his first wife because she needs more attention and she is unable to work and he has to provide for her. I
    Excuse my rambling I’m just terribly confused as to what I should do about this marriage… Please my sisters… I would very much appreciate your advice… Inshallah…
    Thank you,
    J

  • anabellah

    January 24, 2015

    @Dear Gail,

    As much as you say you were the second wife, I always perceive you as the first. Anyhow you are the only and have been experiencing monogamy with your husband, for sure. How is everything coming along with your new home? You mentioned you love it and are enjoying it. I am so very happy for you and your family.

    You asked how I am doing. All is good with me. Same ole story, just a different day http://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif I’m cautious here on the blog, and have implemented strategies of war here on the blog. You may get what I’m saying. It’s all goodhttp://www.polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

    I’m beginning to think that the living together for wives with children may be a very good thing when the wives say they want to see their husbands every day and want their children to see their dad, as well. Okay, then live together. It would solve their problem. If they don’t want to live together, stop bellyaching about not seeing the husband and the children not seeing their dad. Polygamy is not monogamy and sacrifices have to be made.

  • Gail

    January 24, 2015

    Ana,
    How u doing I am checking in to see whats going on with everyone.

    Shabana,
    Hows all going with your cowives and hubby?

    Laila,
    I hope all is going well with u these days.

  • Gail

    January 24, 2015

    Mari2,
    I am curious how u r getting along now that your Dear MIL has left back to PakiLand?

  • Mari2

    January 9, 2015

    @Gail,
    We don’t speak too much. She just plumps suitcases with the stuff she “needs” to bring back to Pakistan. Apparently, her failure to bring shoes or some other trinket for M’s 35th, 3rd cousin, once removed may relegate her to the “she didn’t bring me anything!” bin as far as family is concerned. Crazy. I went to Pakistan and brought back really cute shoes for my friends. All I had to contend with was NOT that I returned with NOT enough, but that I presented my friends with cute shoes that tore the skin off their feet. LOL First world problems.

  • Gail

    January 9, 2015

    Mari2,
    I am also thankful I live here away from the chaos.How is your MIL treating u these days?

  • Mari2

    January 9, 2015

    @Gail
    My husband does have some nice, regular family members too. http://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_smile.gif As for the “winners”, I don’t really let them bother me because fortunately I am here and they are there. And the way things are going there, many are bitter that they are stuck there, and I understand that. I thank Allah every day for all that I have in my life.

  • Gail

    January 8, 2015

    Mari2,
    Sounds like your husbands family are some real winners.The men seem very nasty.I am sorry u have to go through this.

  • Mari2

    January 7, 2015

    @ Gail,
    It wasn’t M’s brother…it was the elder brother of S/cousin wife. I did tell M. M’s response was that the brother is an idiot.

  • Mari2

    January 5, 2015

    @Gail,
    Yes, M’s brother in law to be really did get nasty with me. And yes he did threaten me with his purported Pathan-ness. He said terrible (lol) things to me and accused me of being “old”, and did tell me never to visit Shergah again (like there is any reason for a repeat visit to a one goat town). Luckily, Shergah, Mardan and Peshawar were crossed off my bucket list last year along with the art of smoking in the male only lounge in Islamabad airport with a cool, eliza do little, accented, awesome English Pakistani woman.

    And yeah, M’s bro in law can get as nasty as he wants and he can say whatever he wants….the thing is….I know he sent naked pictures of himself to a friend of mine (she saved). I know he admits to being a chronic charse smoker (I saved the documentation). I know his father (S’s father) is a dirty old man who likes pictures of young girls and comments on them. He friended me so I screen shot his “likes” and statements on young girls pictures. I’m no idiot, covering my bases is highly important.

  • Gail

    January 5, 2015

    Mari2,
    Your husbands brother told u to be careful because he was Pathan.What does that mean like a threat or what.Did u tell your husband.I hope he did not threaten u because u should never take threats lightly from those people.If he did threaten u don’t go back to Pakistan.I have heard horror stories about Pakistani MIL or family members not liking a wife and leaving on the gas stove and they leave the wife at home and she goes to the kitchen to cook and BOOMMM!! I am pretty sure u have heard the stories to.It is way freaky.Then if they don’t get your A$$ that way u always have those strange little gas heaters with the plastic pipes that people step on and the fire goes out but the gas still keeps running.Really scary.I fell asleep more than once over the years with those gas heaters running.Once though it did go off and I was alone.My husband came in screaming at me that I fell asleep with the gas going and the fire went out I could have died.
    I don’t know if Shabanah or Coco are using those crazy gas stoves but holy crap their has to be a better way.
    Please clarify about your brother inlaw if I am wrong and assumed he threatened u.I would hate to think his brother talked nasty to u like that.

  • Mari2

    January 5, 2015

    @Coco, Gail and Ana,

    Thank you again for your continued support. I continue to pray to Allah for patience. 6 more days!!!!! I was trying to help MIL pack suitcases with a huge amount of stuff she bought with M’s money, my money, or I simply gave her. I was trying to sort items and required pounds/liquid content and she kept handing me items saying “M give this to S!” In my head “Let it goooooo…Let it goo…”.

    Ever since his mother’s rampage in my home, I’m no longer inclined to be the semi-perfect hostess for her remainder of her stay. But I will do what is right more for M than her. As for being Pathan…S’s brother who does know of our marriage due in part to my big mouth (as does his mom)said to me “I am Pathan so you better be careful.”

  • coco

    January 4, 2015

    Mari2
    I’m so sorry things have been turbulent for you lately, I’ve been meaning to write to you for a few days just didn’t get a chance to sit with a clear head. To be honest I don’t see M’s uncle to disapprove and break the engagement they will definitely proceed all in name of zabaan and holding the family unit together blahhhhhh! BUT they as a team will work on getting rid of you. I wouldn’t worry though as I see you have quite a good understanding with your husband mashAllah but how you deal with him and the words or tone you chose to use is essential in how things will play out as I see everything is really in his hands whether he chooses to end the engagement or obey mommy dearest. I think Gail hit the jackpot with you flipping the script on them and ask for a legal marriage because your mother in law will not stop meddling the pot to protect her blood. She holds no good intent for you and is looking to tear you apart in pieces but don’t you worry Allah is Just and the most Powerful she is NOT! He will protect you. I see why they say that Pathans use no brain only emotion! lol Just as Gail and Ana said you are doing remarkably well and we are here for you, you will get through this just hold ALL your faith in Allah, you continue feeding the good wolf and you along with your marriage will be left unscratched inshAllah Much love to you sister xo ☺️

    If you want courage, stop focusing on the barrier and the challenge. You will gain hope and courage when you stop looking at the Red Sea, and look instead at the One who can split it in half!
    Rumi

  • Gail

    January 3, 2015

    Mari2,
    Your MIL sure seems to be a piece of work.Pakistani family politics is just a nightmare and every last one of them have issues if u ask me (my own family included). I sure feel your frustration.I really think when u get rid of your MIL u need sort this out with your husband.It is obvious he has zero interest in his cousin.He is only marrying her it seems because of family pressure and this is a disaster in the making if u ask me.U both r being roped into this mess by your MIL who obviously has her own agenda in mine and don’t give squat about your marriage or relationship.I really believe u need to stand firm now and get to the bottom of this insanity.I will say this if your husband marries the cousin I doubt u will ever have peace.Here is the thing your MIL will not accept u and your cowife will listen to your MIL and your husbands family will badger him to get rid on u or just talk down about u.I been through this and it is horrible to say the least.My husband tried to stop it when first wife and her mother put me down to other people but they did it and he still went around her and had sex with her etc… My point is this your husband the one u love and trust will know his family and second wife are talking bad about u yet he will be screwed in the fact that he has to take it and so will u.It is disgusting and it is not like a normal out of family marriage.That is the number one thing that made me come right to the edge of divorcing my husband was the fact that for years he knew his cousin didn’t like me and was talking trash about me.Her and her mother and he let me believe she was good.When he finally told me the truth after the fact I was livid and could have destroyed him.It was only because of the children and I mean seriously only because of the 4 children I did’t divorce him.
    I believe this is the earthquake your husband dreams of.The only way and I mean only way a cousin marriage might possibly work is if everyone didn’t take sides but it never happens the cousin is blood and as the old saying goes blood is thicker than water.
    I could go on and on but u get the point i am sure.lol

  • Mari2

    January 2, 2015

    Then right here in the same town in which I am living is the eldest son of MIL’s eldest 5 sisters. Neither her nephew nor his wife care much for my MIL, M or any of his siblings. I met the eldest sister of MIL while in Pakistan. She was the one with the servant. She was also the one who complained and stormed off in a huff because I wasn’t ready fast enough to greet her. Oh the confused web of Pakistani women. Then the second oldest sister who visited with the daughter M was in love with growing up. The sister who refused to allow M to marry her daughter because his own mother made a poor marriage. She was the one I was not allowed to give a Tylenol to for her headache. Craziness! The entire family is nothing more than an earthquake ready to happen.

  • Mari2

    January 2, 2015

    @Ina,
    Honestly I am not sure where my MIL will reside when/if she returns to the states. MIL has already “threatened” M with “I will never return here!” if he continues to be married to me. Then she threatened not to return at all but remain here and told M to cancel her ticket. M told her NO, and she really does need to return as M’s younger brothers are running wild, and his baby sister needs her mother. I understand her need to go home.

    When he marries cousin and brings her here eventually, M knows that he will have to provide her with a separate place to live. I will not, nor am I required to live in the same household as a co wife. Whether or not I will take his mother in again depends solely upon her attitude. This is OUR house, not M’s alone, and I really don’t think she “gets” that. In the meantime, right down the road from me my MIL has the eldest brother of her late husband, his wife (whom she does not like), and a various assortment of her late husband’s family. They have a big house. They can take her in. Oh! But wait…she doesn’t like how they treat her. She has been here since September and only visited with them 3 times.

  • Mari2

    January 2, 2015

    @Gail,
    Yes my dream does seem to make some sense. Oddly enough M has now begun to dream of earthquakes too. Yesterday he awoke after a deep sleep and told me he had a terrible dream that an earthquake occurred while he was working and he fled the store and watched as people fell into the earth. The whole time he said he just ran around reciting the Kalma. And M said “I was so scared. I could not find a safe place! I just kept running and everybody just fell into the openings in the earth.”

  • Ina

    January 2, 2015

    @ Mari2,
    I really admire your attitude and approach to the cultural problems you are having to deal with. My SIL is married to a Pakistani Man (who is an American citizen). I know that she’s had to deal very patiently with her MIL (her MIL lives with her in same house). I honestly do not know how she copes with it. It got so bad at one point that she went to Malaysia for many months and gave birth to her 3rd child there without her husband by her side. I later learned that this was a period where she was contemplating whether or not to divorce her husband.

    My view is that if your husband follows his mother’s wishes and divorce you then he does not deserve you and you’d be better off without him. He’d be the fool and the coward. I sincerely hope things do not end this way for you.

    Will your MIL be living with you / cousin wife in the states or will be spending most of the time in Pakistan?

  • Mari2

    January 2, 2015

    Thank you Ana. Everything you offer here is blessing for me and I am so appreciative of Allah for this venue. Yes, I am blessed and I try very hard to remind myself of how blessed I am. There are times the whispers of shaitan and those dark corners of the subliminal mind attempt to take me over. However, Allah is my exit ticket from such evil nonsense, MASHALLAH. I just need to keep my focus on HIM. May Allah bless you and all the sisters here.

  • anabellah

    January 2, 2015

    @Mari2,

    You’ve got your head on straight. You’ve got so much to be thankful to Allah for. He’s blesses you with so much. My mom always said, God blessed the child who’s got its own. Please know we’re here for you. You know it. {{{hugs}}}

  • Mari2

    January 2, 2015

    @Ana,
    Thanks. Inshallah the time will pass quickly. I think the most frustrating thing for me (and I realize it is a test from Allah), is that I came to a good place mentally/spriritually about his marriage to his cousin. I’m at peace, or was at peace with that, and now I feel conflicted again due much in part to the whole family politics thing. M certainly feels conflicted, and I feel for him. I think the best I can do is listen to his concerns and give him what level advice I can, and BITE MY TONGUE with regard to any opinion I may hold about culture, Pakistan, and his family politics. I will simply pray for patience, guidance for us both and vent elsewhere as need be. I will feed the good wolf.

    @Gail,
    Thank you as well for your understanding and I am so grateful to be able to speak with you and other sisters who have experienced the Pakistani culture as outsiders. Trust me when I say that I read your previous warnings and I have taken heed of them. That is one reason why the disapproval of his mother did not blindside me. I was pretty much waiting for the other shoe to drop.

    @both,
    I never intended to become the legal wife here. I always knew that his cousin would be the legal wife. That is why I make sure that I have things/place to live etc. in my own name. I am fine with that. Thanks to Allah I have a job and retirement and insurance etc. I also have a trust set up for me when my parents pass (not that I want to think on that). So financially I am/will be okay. So while I may not be able to make decisions for him should something happen, in the event of my sudden passing, my assets are set to go directly to the children of my first marriage and my sister is trustee. The only “benefit” of our Islamic marriage is that which is in the eyes of Allah, which is how it should be. The only thing is that I wish I could get him health insurance with an Islamic marriage which seems only fair since gay marriage partners now have that opportunity in this state.

  • anabellah

    January 2, 2015

    Mari2,

    You’re doing really good, sis. What you’re dealing with and going through is far from easy. Just imagine how conflicted your husband must be right about now. It’s sad when parents put such a burden on their children.

    You were doing really good in working with your husband, trying to get him to see the Truth. I’d imagine it became more difficult for him when his mother came to live with the two of you. I’m sure you will be glad when she leaves your home. Insha Allah, do what you said you intend. Be cordial and kind to her while she’s there. Insha Allah, the time will go quickly for you and you’ll get through it fairly easy. http://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_rose.gif

  • Mari2

    January 2, 2015

    Thanks for your support on this. I’m glad I have a place to share what is going on. MIL will leave the second week in January. In the meantime I shall remain civil to her. All I can do is pray and see what happens.

  • Gail

    January 2, 2015

    Ana,
    If he doesn’t leave mari2 then I wonder how she is going to deal her crazy MIL in the future knowing the woman doesn’t have her back.Then u compound that with brother and sister inlaws.U can’t trust them either because well they all worship the mother.It hurts Ana it hurts really bad.

  • Gail

    January 2, 2015

    Ana,
    Honestly according to Pakistani Islam if his mother wants him to divorce Mari2 and he goes against her then he will number 1 have to listen to his mother and the rest of the family say he is not a good obedient son is my guess.Then he has all this brainwashed mentality that he has been taught that heaven is at his mothers feet or something other so it is a long list of hurdles he would have to overcome and believe me it is not easy.My husband still struggles between his culture and belief system and what he has grown to understand here in USA.Either way it goes I feel Mari2 will have a hard road ahead of her is my sincere thinking.
    Also as woman we feel guilty that we come in the middle of our husbands and their family and even if we say we don’t care it still bothers us on some deep level.
    Then Mari2 may feel sorry for the cousin knowing Pakistani woman don’t have much choice when it comes to marriage and the cousin having a handicap will make her alottt less likely to secure a good husband by Pakistani standards.It is so cringing to think about to be honest.I lived this mess and I would not wish it on my worst enemy.
    I will say this Mari2 dreams make alot more since now.Maybe Mari2 was feeling that she was on the outside(never really being accepted my the MIL and maybe other family members) looking in and she did mention that she didn’t really have a desire to run in and save them knowing the house was about to cave in on them.
    I do feel if Mari2 husband leaves her he will regret it and I don’t really see mari2 taking him back if he screws up and does that to her.It would be like her watching the house fall down on him.I don’t know it was an interesting dream and it sure fits into what is going on with Mari2 i feel.

  • anabellah

    January 1, 2015

    Gail,

    You may be right that he won’t leave Mari2, but she will have a difficult time dealing with the family since they are all intertwine.

    Giving it more thought, it’s questionable whether he has wronged Mari2 in any way. He was married to the first wife legally and they mutually divorced. He was therefore free to marry legally again and was already intended to the cousin. He could marry the cousin legally and I wouldn’t think Mari2 would have been violated. Would he be violating any principals of Islam by divorcing Mari2 because the mother tells him to? http://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_unsure.gif

  • anabellah

    January 1, 2015

    Gail,

    I’m with you that Mari2’s mother-in-law had a lot of balls to go all sorts of ways crazy on her son while they all were in Mari2’s home. The MIL had a lot of audacity to stand up in Mari2’s home and tell her son to divorce Mari2. It is insolence to the ultimate. The crap is really getting ready to hit the fan. It’s getting ready to get real ugly up in there. It’s something I wouldn’t want to be a part of Scared

  • Gail

    January 1, 2015

    Ana and Mari2,
    I am really curious why Mari2 didn’t go for a marriage license.I suspect u since he was engaged already to his cousin maybe he told mari2 that he had to legally marry the cousin so he could bring her to USA but I am not sure if this is the case.

    Mari2,
    I sure don’t want this coming off sounding bad but my gut instinct tells me that since u r white and educated your husband will not let u go BUT understand this unless u r good at ignoring alot of things like your husbands family and your husbands mental frustration towards his family your life is going to become a whole lot more stressful.I wish it was as easy as him picking u over the cousin or vice versa but unfortunately from my experience it really don’t work that way.U are seeing his mother has control over him or she would not have blown up on him like she did.She obviously feels she has some control and authority over him.I am dying to know how u r dealing with that B!tch now that u know her underlying true feelings towards u.This is the very reason I am not close with my husbands family.Even they didn’t pressure hubs to divorce me but still I just can’t get that loving feeling back knowing they were supporting his first wife and allowed him to take advantage of me.Frankly It makes me want to vomit.I am here for u if u need talk or figure things out.U r not alone ok that much I want u to understand that U R NOT ALONE u have everyone here on the blog to give u advises.Never feel like u r alone.

  • anabellah

    January 1, 2015

    Gail,

    I’m all for a legal marriage contract. A contract is a contract and we’re allowed to make contracts in Islam. A Marriage License is a legal, enforceable contract. It doesn’t prevent a man from having more than one wife.The only thing is those type of marriage contracts (personal, private contracts between husbands and wives) are not enforceable in the U.S. when a husband has a Legal Marriage Certificate/License with another wife. If a woman wants to marry a married man who is married legally with an enforceable contract, she does so willfully, of her own free will and accord and she should understand that she won’t be afforded the same benefits that the legal wife receives. All that the parties agree on is fair and just. No one forces a woman to marry a married man. She shouldn’t marry a married man who legally married, and then belly ache about how unfair the conditions are. She signed up for it. She needs to take responsibility for what she’s done. Don’t accept it and then don’t like it. Divorce is available for those who find out they don’t like it.

    Mari2 is in a predicament, as she has no legally binding contract. Her husband divorced the first wife who was legal and it appears he will legally marry the Pakistani cousin. It looks as though Mari2 will be up a creek without a paddle, if her husband doesn’t fight for her. She has let us know, however, she will be just fine on her own without her husband. I’m just saying Ouch. It still hurts. It doesn’t feel good.

    Gail, I totally understand your feeling